Androgynous Sexuality?

[Guest Ryles_D]

Ok, I've been wondering about this. If you're androgynous- how do you define your sexuality? I figure if you're bi/pan, it's easy enough. But what if you only like guys or girls? You can't say hetero-, because you don't like only androgynous, and you might not want to say homo- because that gets confusing since it could mean either.

Should you just go by biological sex?

[Guest Zenda]

Androphilic-attracted to men -gynophilic-attracted to women or androgynophilic-attracted to both...take your pick.

Metta Jendar

[Guest Ryles_D]

Wait. So androgyne means malefemale? That sounds like a mental version of intersex, not like an absence of gender. Darn...

[Guest Zenda]

Kia ora RDeis,

As human beings there can't be 'an absence of gender' there is a combination of both 'androgyne' ie 'no fixed abode' or the plain old male/female but there must be gender in some shape or form or we wouldn't be part of the animal kingdom or come to think of it the human race. I like many other trans-people went through the androgynous stage during our gender affirming period. Are you asking your question from a physically intersex position or purely a mental one ie, no outward signs of androgyne...If mentally ones does not feel male or female they must feel both...think about it!

[Guest Kaimialana]

Kia ora RDeis,

As human beings there can't be 'an absence of gender' there is a combination of both 'androgyne' ie 'no fixed abode' or the plain old male/female but there must be gender in some shape or form or we wouldn't be part of the animal kingdom or come to think of it the human race. I like many other trans-people went through the androgynous stage during our gender affirming period. Are you asking your question from a physically intersex position or purely a mental one ie, no outward signs of androgyne...If mentally ones does not feel male or female they must feel both...think about it!

I think a Netrois would argue with you about that.

[Guest Zenda]

Netrios I'm at a lose ! Definitions definitions and nice labels designed to confuse the already confused...I've just read something on netrios and what they are meant to be...and I'm none the wiser...What's in a name?

[Guest Phoenix]

Wait. So androgyne means malefemale? That sounds like a mental version of intersex, not like an absence of gender. Darn...

To me androgynous can mean both masculine and feminine OR neither of them.

[Guest Ryles_D]

Kia ora RDeis,

As human beings there can't be 'an absence of gender' there is a combination of both 'androgyne' ie 'no fixed abode' or the plain old male/female but there must be gender in some shape or form or we wouldn't be part of the animal kingdom or come to think of it the human race. I like many other trans-people went through the androgynous stage during our gender affirming period. Are you asking your question from a physically intersex position or purely a mental one ie, no outward signs of androgyne...If mentally ones does not feel male or female they must feel both...think about it!

That's ridiculous. If there can be something, there can be an absence of it. That'd be like saying you can't be asexual because you have the ability to have sex.

I'm not saying that I'm physically without gender- but the things that most people use to define gender don't apply to me and I feel wrong trying to think of myself as either or both. I wouldn't say I'm both, I'd say I'm neither.

Correction: I AM neither. My body is, biologically, something, but mentally I'm neither male nor female.

To me androgynous can mean both masculine and feminine OR neither of them.

Yeah, that's just too broad. I'd rather one that means neither because it's more precise. It'd be like if bisexual meant both "interested in both men and women" and "not sexually interested in anyone". Kinda confusing.

So, I'm guessing that means I'm staying with neutrois.

Neutrois= Neither gender. they actually seek to look neither male nor female. It's what I always thought androgynous meant... ^^;

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora RDeis,

Now you have really lost me...'you seek to look neither male nor female'...What can I say but good luck...So long as you appear in human form with a boy or girl thingy or both-society will stick a 'gender' label on you no matter what you look like... I was going to ask you how you dressed and would like to be addressed...In the context of 'sex and 'gender' are you happy with your birthsex but not your perceived gender identity ?

Metta Jendar

[Guest Ryles_D]

Now you have really lost me...'you seek to look neither male nor female'...What can I say but good luck...So long as you appear in human form with a boy or girl thingy or both-society will stick a 'gender' label on you no matter what you look like... I was going to ask you how you dressed and would like to be addressed...In the context of 'sex and 'gender' are you happy with your birthsex but not your perceived gender identity ?

"they". I use "they". It's like the use in this conversation: "I found a wallet, this is my lucky day!" "What about the person who lost it? They aren't so lucky, you should try and get it back to them." 'they' is used in place of he or she because you don't know the gender of the person. ^__^

Now, then, who CARES what people think? It's what I think that matters. And if I feel like the way I look is totally disconnected with the way I feel I should look, then that's a problem; but if I look like a freak but feel comfortable with it, then I don't care what people say. People who don't like it can go away and tell people who'll listen to them about how to be. You can be CD or TG and get read as male by one person and female by another in the same exact outfit on the same day. Deal with it.

On birthsex:

Rather displeased. Want 'em to carve the damned organ and mammories out. I think you can get rid of the uterus and leave the ovaries so you don't need hormone treatments so much... Gosh darned, expensive surgeries and doctors scared of getting sued (apparently a girl's husband can turn around and sue the doctor 10 years later because he wants kids.)

Yeah, and the surgery aspect is frightening, as well.... *sighs* I still wanna find that magic wand I can wave to fix everything.

[Guest Ryles_D]

Also, what's with the "Kia ora RDeis"? Just curious.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora...is a Maori greeting meaning Hello/Hi.

[Zufrieden]

Hi RDeis:

The mystery of "Kia Ora RDeis" is quite obvious.

Kia is a South Korean automobile manufacturer.

Ora is latin for prayer.

So even if the grammar is convoluted, Jendar is praying that you get a Kia automobile.

Or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

Returning to the main topic, talking about hetereosexuality or homsexuality in the realm of transsexuality can be confusing.

Androphilia or gynephilia unambiguously describe attraction.

The DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th revision) under 302.85 puts it more conversationally:

• Sexually Attracted to Males
  
• Sexually Attracted to Females
  
• Sexually Attracted to Both
  
• Sexually Attracted to Neither
  

Z.

Nice to know that we've all got a mental disorder!

[Guest Ryles_D]

*laughs* Do Kia make motorcycles? I wouldn't mind that. Jendar's explanation makes far more sense, though...

I always figured that everyone had at least one mental problem- nice to know it's true. x3 That's a lot more straight foreward.

[Guest jan]

Kia ora RDeis,

As human beings there can't be 'an absence of gender' there is a combination of both 'androgyne' ie 'no fixed abode' or the plain old male/female but there must be gender in some shape or form or we wouldn't be part of the animal kingdom or come to think of it the human race. I like many other trans-people went through the androgynous stage during our gender affirming period. Are you asking your question from a physically intersex position or purely a mental one ie, no outward signs of androgyne...If mentally ones does not feel male or female they must feel both...think about it!

[Guest Ryles_D]

Um, jan, did you mean to say something there, cuz it didn't have a message iwht the quote. ^^;

[Guest silverpetals]

but then, what if you're attracted to androgynes?...that makes it even more confusing

[Guest GoldenKirbichu]

The way I see it...

Androgyne: A person who identifies zirself in some combination of male and female, or the absence of either definition. This combination is (relatively) immutable; i.e., the person doesn't suddenly or drastically "shift" genders.

Neutrois: The "transsexual" equivalent of (neutral, generally) androgyny, where the individual wishes to remove some or all traces of zir body-sex to fit zir gender.

Bigender: A person who identifies zirself as a different gender depending on the situation zie is in or emotions zie is feeling. A bigendered person might feel male/masculine at some points and female/feminine at others.

Trigender/Polygender/Pangender/Multigender: Variants of bigender, where the person also experiences times of androgynity or neutronity.

I could be wrong though... and I apologize in advance for offending anyone with the terms.

Anyway, for people who fit into the multigender/mixed-gender/androgyny spectra, I tend to default to the -phile terms for describing their preferred partners. Androphile for male/masculine preference, gynephile for female/feminine preference, androgynephile for no strong preference... asexuality is hard to pin down though, I don't have a term for it, but it could stay the same.

As for a specific attraction to other multigendered people... that would be really hard to name.

[Guest Ryles_D]

but then, what if you're attracted to androgynes?...that makes it even more confusing

Well, if an androgyne's attracted to androgynes- that's homosexual. ^^ Otherwise... um... androgynesexual? XD

[Guest KyleMicheal]

The way I see it...

Androgyne: A person who identifies zirself in some combination of male and female, or the absence of either definition. This combination is (relatively) immutable; i.e., the person doesn't suddenly or drastically "shift" genders.

Neutrois: The "transsexual" equivalent of (neutral, generally) androgyny, where the individual wishes to remove some or all traces of zir body-sex to fit zir gender.

Bigender: A person who identifies zirself as a different gender depending on the situation zie is in or emotions zie is feeling. A bigendered person might feel male/masculine at some points and female/feminine at others.

Trigender/Polygender/Pangender/Multigender: Variants of bigender, where the person also experiences times of androgynity or neutronity.

I could be wrong though... and I apologize in advance for offending anyone with the terms.

Anyway, for people who fit into the multigender/mixed-gender/androgyny spectra, I tend to default to the -phile terms for describing their preferred partners. Androphile for male/masculine preference, gynephile for female/feminine preference, androgynephile for no strong preference... asexuality is hard to pin down though, I don't have a term for it, but it could stay the same.

As for a specific attraction to other multigendered people... that would be really hard to name.

Lol. I'm like all of those.

TRIGENDER IT IS!

(so...does that mean my bf is a multigenderphiliac? haha)

[Guest Link48010]

My sexuality is all messed up as far as I can tell. Okay first, I'm in love with a biological male (i'm a biological male as well), but I have had a female lover. Also the person I'm in love with now is a MTF, so is it the personality I should count? Also my enjoyments, I flow from yuri fanfiction, which basically is lesbian fanfiction about anime. But I also don't mind yoai fanfiction (gay fanfiction) so what's going on here, this is what I figure, that the male portion of my personality is bi or gay, and the female portion is a lesbian...... I'M SO CONFUSED. The reason I figure it's the female portion that's a lesbian is because I always get into the head of the characters in the fanfiction and imagine myself as one of them.

[Guest Frois]

In my case I go by the biological sex because I find it easier (especially when it comes to tell other people).

I'm a male (an androgyne male) who likes men, so I say I'm gay.

But it happens to me something that I find really interesting and I don' know if it happens to other gay androgynes; being gay I'm sexually interested in men, but I fall in love with women (which I don't feel sexually atracted to).

[Guest mio]

I don't what I should call myself, after I mostly like other androgynes, but it feels like mostly my female side prefers girls and male side boys, so I'm kind of bisexual/pan, but actually still gay. Seems weird, but actually I don't mind I don't how to call myself, even it could be easier to explain to other people. Nowadays I tell them I'm pan.

[Guest androgynous]

Kia Ora RDeis,

Now you have really lost me...'you seek to look neither male nor female'...What can I say but good luck...So long as you appear in human form with a boy or girl thingy or both-society will stick a 'gender' label on you no matter what you look like... I was going to ask you how you dressed and would like to be addressed...In the context of 'sex and 'gender' are you happy with your birthsex but not your perceived gender identity ?

Metta Jendar

I have moments in my life that I feel neither, pretty much. Thing is, I want to express that by combining the looks of both on the outside. Since you cannot look complete genderless, I am trying to make up for that by expressing the genders all at once, exactly the mirror of my feelings. Maybe for some this can be confusing, but for me it isn't I find it more confusing to be only one gender and cancel out the other.

[Guest mia 1]

Androgynous Sex In my own personal definition means enjoying the art of love making with the partner of your choice. The key is: Enjoying sex from both perspectives as a man and as a woman. This is quite natural to androgynes like myself who emotinally and mentally see both sides of life as dual gender. A warm and mysterious phenomena, dating back to the beginning of writen history and I am sure long before that.....................Mia.