Tough To Discuss

[Guest mia 1]

Not an easy topic to bring up because I peeked into the porn world and what I saw broke my heart.

Yes I googled crossdresser and yes I looked at a couple of sites and I did the same thing the night I joined Laura's last year.

No I wasn't attracted to it..yes it affected my self esteem..yes it made me wonder if I was a pervert and made me think I may be a freak of nature.

Then I began to wonder ......what when where and who these poor women are and how they got to this point.

Where are these women from, what are they doing this for, when did they get involved in porn, and why are they doing this,,,and what becomes of them when they reach "THAT" certain age.

Well I asked around and found out a few things, many are drug addicts and have become so because of the lack of support from the general community, parents and friends, and the low self esteem they have and no one to vent to.

Some are trying to secure finances to attain SRS and hope to save enough money to have total transition.

ALL are humiliated and treated like chattel by the porn industry pimps and many end up committing suicide with the knowledge that thay have no escape.

Many end up with HIV and Hepatitis B and die from lack of medical help.

But the important question I had was are these people truly part of our community or are they charlatans masquerading as transgendered women.

The answer is YES they are full members of our community who have the same conflicts and the same doubts and the same worries, but through lack of knowledge ,and lack of support end up in the dead end world of pornography and prostitution.

My question to everyone is twofold do you know any of our sisters who are in this situation and is their anything we can do to help bring them to our Forum and let them tell their story and what can we do to help them??? Thanks From My heart..............Mia

[Guest April63]

I think the answer to why so many are in the porn industry is the same answer to the question about why so many teens are involved with drugs. It it is a temporary solution to a problem. Drugs can be fun and provide an escape. Porn may provide funds. It may improve their self-esteem or self-worth. It's not the right thing to do, and they may know that. But they're lost in a lost world, just like all of us. All of us make mistakes.

Can we bring them here? I don't know. Send a few emails?

April

[Guest shalini]

i feel very much and very pathetic and needs support

Not an easy topic to bring up because I peeked into the porn world and what I saw broke my heart.

Yes I googled crossdresser and yes I looked at a couple of sites and I did the same thing the night I joined Laura's last year.

No I wasn't attracted to it..yes it affected my self esteem..yes it made me wonder if I was a pervert and made me think I may be a freak of nature.

Then I began to wonder ......what when where and who these poor women are and how they got to this point.

Where are these women from, what are they doing this for, when did they get involved in porn, and why are they doing this,,,and what becomes of them when they reach "THAT" certain age.

Well I asked around and found out a few things, many are drug addicts and have become so because of the lack of support from the general community, parents and friends, and the low self esteem they have and no one to vent to.

Some are trying to secure finances to attain SRS and hope to save enough money to have total transition.

ALL are humiliated and treated like chattel by the porn industry pimps and many end up committing suicide with the knowledge that thay have no escape.

Many end up with HIV and Hepatitis B and die from lack of medical help.

But the important question I had was are these people truly part of our community or are they charlatans masquerading as transgendered women.

The answer is YES they are full members of our community who have the same conflicts and the same doubts and the same worries, but through lack of knowledge ,and lack of support end up in the dead end world of pornography and prostitution.

My question to everyone is twofold do you know any of our sisters who are in this situation and is their anything we can do to help bring them to our Forum and let them tell their story and what can we do to help them??? Thanks From My heart..............Mia

[Sally]

It is sad that so many people trans or not are involved in the porn industry.

It is a sad fact to me that we have a need for a porn industry.

As the depression gets deeper (monetary) the porn industry is one of the "depression proof" industries.

It will thrive as others fail, the need for release is greater the more depressed you are and the porn industry supplies a release.

I have fought against doing things that I don't believe in to the point of one bankruptcy already and looking squarely into the possibility of a second.

Some people can't face that and turn to things that they know that they shouldn't just for money.

I may just die from starvation, but in that regard I will have lived my life true to myself, just in the wrong body.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Dearest Mia,

You bring up a very important, and yet heart wrenching question. Yet before the grace of God goes I. These poor gender gifted souls got lost as so many people do regardless of their quest. Laura's site has been my saving grace, you have no idea. We must somehow get the word out to the gender gifted community that this site exists and we are a community who understands and cares. I don't have the answers, Now I need to cry.

bernie

[Guest bronx]

This is not a topic that is easy to discuss but i will be as honest as possible on my point of veiw on this subject. I have been watching porn for a very long time and I have been watching more since i've been on T. I also watch it with my wife. There are times when I feel as though women all women including trans women are being exploited. I also feel as though the men are being exploited as well. the porn industry is big business. Recently I have found out that there are now ftm's doing porn as well. Why anyone will choose to do this I really don't know, but I think that adults make dicisions for whatever reasons. I think that some maybe on drugs, or seeking a way to make some cash to pay for srs. However I also believe that there are some that see it as a job. I'm not trying to sound uncaring or anything.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Dear Sally,

Amen sister!! I will starve too, knowing I lived my life true!!!

bernie

[Guest Zabrak]

This is not a topic that is easy to discuss but i will be as honest as possible on my point of veiw on this subject. I have been watching porn for a very long time and I have been watching more since i've been on T. I also watch it with my wife. There are times when I feel as though women all women including trans women are being exploited. I also feel as though the men are being exploited as well. the porn industry is big business. Recently I have found out that there are now ftm's doing porn as well. Why anyone will choose to do this I really don't know, but I think that adults make dicisions for whatever reasons. I think that some maybe on drugs, or seeking a way to make some cash to pay for srs. However I also believe that there are some that see it as a job. I'm not trying to sound uncaring or anything.

I also think that everyone, no matter what gender are being exploited. I don't really see it as a bad thing if people think of it as a job for themselves but those who are forced into it or are on drugs I feel sorry for.

[Guest Nelly]

Hi,

I do not like it that everybody has the same bad meaning about the porn industry. I will not say that all of them are good, but not all of them are bad. Also it is not the porn industry that are collecting all the poor souls, it is the society that create this poor souls. If society work correct than there is no need for them to make money as a porn actor. Porn industry is just a tool of society. It is the same with prostitution. If it would not banish by society it would be legal and more save.

Greetings

Nelly

[Guest Amanda L Richards]

There is nothing more disgusting, than the PARASITES of society feeding on the hearts and souls of the innocent.

This is how people end up in prostitution and the porn industry. These parasites prey on the unsuspecting who have fallen on tough times, and when needing a helping hand, they get the deceptive hand of these parasites instead.

Perhaps Laura's could work with the LGBT organizations out there from allover North America to bring awareness of this site to the public so that someone like us can find us.

I know that when I was doing research for a place to go, I never heard of Laura's, I stumbled onto this site by accident. I found other sites, but they were not very nice even though they said that they were for a community like ours. Some of them had accompanying ads for porn sites, and links that connected one to some of the rather distasteful areas of the internet.

I think that some of the places that could if willing, would be sexual assault centers, some of them could use a little education about this world as well. Then there is the smaller Lgbt organizations, that have no idea Laura's exists.

The one I looked at has no idea what if any forums are out there.

Just a couple of things off the top of my head.

Amanda LR

[Guest doodle]

Maybe there are some here already. I have read some nasty things written here about she- males. Why would anyone admit to that- only to be rejected. Try making on the streets or NYC in March with out a home or any one who cares about you. . Yes there many who are heroin, I have had many friends die of overdoses. When you have no one who loves you it easy to fall in love with death. As far as I will starve. That is just nonsense. All that says is that you have never really been down, and out, I turned tricks for an escort service years ago. The guy was nice to me, paid me with out question, if there was problem with someone I was never sent there again. It got me back on my feet into a SRO and back to a real job.

doodle

[Guest Sakura_Stingray]

i know someone who has been in the call girl business and she is mtf....she said if you are into sex and money is hard to find do your best at being a call girl becuse they protect you...

i dont know exctly how her life is i known her on the net for about six or so years now..she went off hormones for a year from depression and finances....i was able to help her esteem on restarting hormones but i havnt seen her for awhile

she stoped being a call girl because her b/f gave her hiv which is why she was depressed for that year i have not seen her for a few months and its kinda scareing me

[Guest julia_d]

Am I the only person here who has worked in the sex industry?

I was a street girl for 4 or so years.. partly to fund my lifestyle and partly because it was about the only career opportunity open for a full time life.

|It was a little risky, but only as unsafe as any job which involved going out after dark. You meet all kinds of interesting people.. many who were just lonely and wanted somebody to talk to.

There were the creeps too.. but I have had my fare share of creeps at work, where because in a normal work environment they are empowered they can be abusive. Most of the men I met out on the streets were fine. The safety (I think) seemed to come in part from their fear that it would get out that they were somehow "gay" for paying for my services. The other girls would speak to.. say hello and stuff.. to their tricks if they met them out in daylight maybe shopping or in the pub. I always used my safety net of not so much as a flicker of recognition.. unless they came over and started talking. Mutual safety.

All the girls looked out for each other, just as long as you stuck to your own corner and didn't actively steal their regulars. It was cool.. nobody ever forced, or even attempted to force me to do anything I wasn't comfortable with. I didn't have a drug habit.. my experiences with the other girls actually turned me away from dabbling with drugs. Too many wrecks taking incredible risks to get the money for themselves and their addict abusive boyfriends... not a future I saw for me.. and seeing it in the flesh so to speak turned me right off the idea of the drug lifestyle being somehow "cool"

I never felt like I was the one being exploited. The men were always nice to me and always used the correct pronouns.. which is something which I still don't get in the day to day community.. even with people who know who I am. I was the one doing the exploitation.. I was transferring their need and their loneliness into cold hard cash in my bank account while at the same time learning how to be a woman and how to pass. I'm sure to this day there are men out there who never guessed that I wasn't 100% GG

There is a dark side to the sex industry.. it's the same people who run drugs and other horrors I have met people from that world.. that's another reason I never went to houses with people, or went to make the films ..the money offered was good.. it rung alarm bells.. it seemed so much that it was likely to be some sort of trap. I know from the general street trade that the usual time per job works out about 15 minutes.. by slots.. so they want you for a whole afternoon.. say 4 hours.. then the price should be about 16 of those 15 minute slots.. price at the time (1998-2002) about £160.. maybe £200 depending what they want you to do.. nothing like the £800-£2000 they were waving about.

I was offered parts in some films. I never went that far.. though as I knew my father liked his "strange" porn there was a temptation to have a go just in the hope he would see it and freak out He is dead.. and that part of my life is over. I was never mistreated.. I was never exploited.. and I came out clean and with a far better understanding of people, the world and myself. Overall my experience was positive.. but I wasn't really in a position where I could be exploited.

[Guest mia 1]

I would like to say thank you all for your heartfelt wonderful open and compassionate responses.....I would love to hug all of you in person and buy you a green beer for St. Patty's day....We are all kindred souls and your answers have relieved my thoughts and questions about the porn industry and if the participants were part of our community and now that I know they (you) (we) are all united, my mind is clear and I feel much closer to all....Love to you and our community....Mia

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Sorry - I couldn't post on this subject for a while. I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks in a large city in Texas. This hits home - of my ten friends of childhood, two were murdered in drug deals, one overdosed, another was killed in Vietnam, and one was killed in a motorcycle accident. And only five of us survived to age 18, and then I got out.

Later I had a gorgeous redheaded male friend who wanted to model - and was tricked into something else in Las Vagus and had to hitch hike home. He then had a chance to drive a van to Chicago, $10,000 no questions asked. I had to beg him not to do it - thankfully he did see the folly.

And a sweetheart of a friend who was gay, and had his partner murdered In New Orleas over a stupid mugging, where his partner refused to give the a watch he had just been lovingly given.

And a woman friend who's brother was murdered over $40,000 that no one knew he had - and this was just the weekend before Katrina - and his body floated out of the morgue and he wasn't found for three months, and the evidence was lost when the police station flooded?

Drugs, Pornography, Exploitation! All the same in my view - a terrible part of humanity. She-males? Trans-prostitution? On line sex with gender dysphoric - or homosexual - or heterosexual? All the same - a sad and tragic direction in human life, a missed opportunity to be noble and clean and wise.

Yet whom am I to judge. I can see why a person would sell their body for gain when gain cannot be achieved any other way.

I KNOW I would do just about anything to transition, I just haven't been given the temptations to do it in a way I would not normally chose.

I pray to GOD he doesn't feel the need to tempt me. Would I murder for the chance? Deal in drugs to have the money? Sell my body to fools who are as desparate as I am in my own way? Temp the devil?

There is no Devil - just us.

We are a pathetic group of people, we transsexual.

How can we reach everyone? I don't know. Some are just too far out of reach I think. Does that make me a bad person to feel that way?

Elizabeth

[Guest Devonnete]

I see that I'm in the minority here but I don't think that porn is wrong. Don't get me wrong I've read stories about adult actors and actresses who get hooked on drugs, contracted HIV/AIDS and even committed suicide and I feel for them and their struggles. I also am not saying that I agree with under aged people being used.

Pornography is an industry. For some people involved it is a stepping stone to something else. Some people go into porn with a plan and once the plan is executed they move on. I think that people continue doing porn regardless of how they feel about it is because of the money. Adults make choices. I know that the world isn't fair and folks do what they have to to eat, keep a roof over their heads, afford a little extra etc but there are always choices.

People keep talking about exploitation. I say that there is exploitation and corruption in every industry. These people could just as easily have chosen to work for a lot less money... fast food, baggage handler, ditch digger etc but a lot of them decided that making mare in two hours than they could make at McDonalds in two weeks is worth whatever embarrassment they may feel during a performance. I guess that's what people who bash porn and exotic entertainment forget it all is just an illusion.

I have several friends who are exotic performers, some who do adult films, a couple who sometimes are paid as nude models and I know a transwoman who is in the sex industry. There are no drug addicts or alcoholics in the group. I don't see them as perverts or victims. For various reasons they do what they do. Hopefully they will follow in the footsteps of our friends who left adult entertainment in tact and on their own terms.

Would I do porn to help pay for my transition or to make money fro whatever? Before I got married I would have said yes. Even now I might consider it if my wife were going to do it with me.

[Guest mia 1]

Thanks Devonette.no arguments from me all opinions and positions are correct...but I would like to apologize to the men and the FTM's at the forum for not including their POV's in my original post....so thanks for both sides of the mirror...tha's another thing that is so wonderful about our community........

[Guest My_Genesis]

I don't have much to say about this topic...but I do have something.

I don't have a personal problem with porn. I also don't watch porn...I mean in my situation I'm lucky if I can get through a TV-14 show with sexual content and not have images stuck in a loop in my mind for the next 12-24 hours

What I do have a problem with is the "image" it creates for us - and I think I've briefly mentioned this before - when "crossdresser porn" becomes like its own subgenre of porn, or when I go on youtube and type in a keyword like "transsexual" and the first videos that come up are about prostitutes or trans porn (yes this has happened) It makes me wonder if people associate us with porn....that's what concerns me. It makes it even more difficult when you're trying to explain to someone "it isn't a fetish, it isn't some kind of sexual deviation..." when there are things out there suggesting just that.

[Guest Nelly]

It makes me wonder if people associate us with porn

In all other porns you can see normal people having sex. So do you associate normal people with porn?

I think the big problem is in this case, that normal people do not note trans people in normal life. They only know them from porn. So what to do is to bring trans people into normal life without porn consense. But if you see a documentation about trans people, porn or prostitution is allways one point of it.

Greetings

Nelly

[Guest mia 1]

My Genesis and Nelly you bring up "food for thought" but Nelly lets say the general population instead of normal......maybe we are the "colonel" population((old joke) (bad joke) but the stigma is there....my therapist said that there are varying degrees of "gayness'' and that men who are somewhat gay enjoy watching "she males" perform sexual acts because they see women with penis's and that satisfies their sex drive..... just his his theory, certainly open to discussion.

But the you both are right porn/transsexual/gender community is associated with porn and the fact that we lead normal (there's that word again)lives some married, some not, some business executives, professionals, students, is never thought about by most people because of porn and prostitutin...

Maybe we need a lobby group like the oil/gas/coal industry to show people we are " just folk" and we live our own lives and not a threat tho their sexuality or their Happy home

[Guest Irielle]

I have a good friend in the Philippines who is transgendered. She has a college degree in electrical engineering and cannot get a job in her chosen field and the only reason is because she is transgendered. She is smart and very capable and intelligent and she passes 100%. She doesn't do drugs and lives a healthy lifestyle.

The catholic church has a stranglehold on things and she cannot change her gender on her documentation because of their influence. Every job requires documentation of birth gender. She is forced into the porn industry because it's the only job open to her and she needs to support her parents and family. She doesn't like doing it and is constantly searching for another job but is always turned down. When I'm able I send money to help her and her family, but it isn't as often as I'd like. She has told me where her website is but I have never gone there, I just can't do it. It feels like it would be a violation of some kind on my part.

She was embarassed to have to tell me about her situation but I make no moral judgements and support her 100%. She has a good heart and is doing the best she can. I have several other transgendered friends in that country and they are all pretty much in the same boat. Being transgendered is the kiss of death, especially if you are poor, but they are very strong and are determined to be true to themselves.

So, do we all really have choices? Her choice is to be true to herself and be in the porn industry, at least right now, or to be someone she is not and see about getting a job in her (his) field. We all know how awful it is pretending to be someone we are not. Is it just a choice to live our lives according to our real gender? Or is it not a choice but a neccessity - something that we absolutely must do in order to remain sane and alive? I know my friend is following her heart. I don't have any answers but I do know that people in the porn industry are first of all people, just as we all are, and deserve the dignity and respect we all do.

For my friend it's just a job and I hope she can find a new job that will use her intelligence and skills. It's such a waste to make gender the deciding factor for her or for anybody. I'll be going to the Philippines this Saturday and hope to visit her and her family again, if I can get up to her town.

[Guest mia 1]

Thank You Irielle. That really opens my eyes to what the term prejudgment means...until I started this topic, my eyes and heart were shut to compassion (pity was the word)I had and puzzlement about the people involved...in porn....... especially our brothers and sisters who were in front of the camera...,,well not anymore I realize that going on a crusade to save these "poor souls" is like white 19th century Europeans saving the "savages from themselves."

I would rather be true to who I am in my heart like your friends than have to be some one I could not look in the mirror. If it meant porn,then that's what has to be done....I realize it is acting after all.and if you can hold your self up and be proud and face the world with a sense of self worth than blessed be you.

It is like the Jews of Spain during the Inquisition they had the opportunity to convert and live and be well in Spain,,or be exiled ...many chose exile and some chose conversion,,,but they practiced Judaism in secret and if found out burned at the stake..... God said to the Jews ..in Exodus...you are a stiff necked people.....which meant they would believe in their Lord and your friends in the Philippines have the same wonderful spirit................Mia

[Guest Evan_J]

....you really don't come with the easiest topics do you Mia?

However I also believe that there are some that see it as a job.

I think there is a point -when the person who lives that industry admits that that is where they are or will be- when there is no other "Psychologically salvageing" option other than to "rationalize" the behavior ie. strip it in consciousness to being "a job". The problem is that however "managable" (god bless you julia_d for surviving) that "job" is it does eat away at the persons sense of value. It distorts their ability to see themselves, and some times all people, outside of commodities eligible for trade. And for that it deteriorates the understanding -one person at a time- that humans are intended for something greater.

Do I watch porn? Yes. Guilty. I'm a pornaholic even knowing that. But the sex industries is foundationed on desperation and vulnerability. The worker is desperate and vulnerable typically. Even the offspring of a wealthy person who "has it all" materially on investigation will be "desperate and vulnerable" usually even if the desperation and vulnerability are emotional. And the consumers both on streets and in livingrooms watching cable are "desperate" (sexual tension) and vulnerable (a lot of indulging in pornography that either depicts acts "inaccessable" because of relationships, available other people, unacceptability in their public life in the matter of fethishes, or illegality in the matters of pedophillia which is thinly veiled under "extreme teen" or "barely legal" pornography) also. Very few people will "admit" to what kind of porn it is they really like. The industry operates off being aware of exactly what those predelictions are and catering to that shame and fear.

[Guest mia 1]

And the consumers both on streets and in living rooms watching cable are "desperate" (sexual tension) and vulnerable (a lot of indulging in pornography that either depicts acts "inaccessible" because of relationships, available other people, unacceptability in their public life in the matter of fetishes, or illegality in the matters of pedophilia which is thinly veiled under "extreme teen" or "barely legal" pornography) also. Very few people will "admit" to what kind of porn it is they really like. The industry operates off being aware of exactly what those predilections are and catering to that shame and fear

Thanks Evan for your response, I'm a little confused about cable. Do you mean the standard cable shows like Sex in the City which is soft porn or the pay per view porn on the adult channels. The way I understand it if you are talking about Sex and the City or Desperate Housewives then we are all watching some kind of porn described by the Supreme Court as prurient interest.....and I totally agree with you..we are all voyeurs into others lives....and receive a certain vicarious thrill from others sex lives so where and what is the difference between soft and hard porn? Not in the acts which is obvious but in the viewers mind.......

So thanks for bringing up that inter sting point...Hope I followed your thoughts correctly....Mia

[Guest My_Genesis]

My Genesis and Nelly you bring up "food for thought" but Nelly lets say the general population instead of normal......maybe we are the "colonel" population((old joke) (bad joke) but the stigma is there....my therapist said that there are varying degrees of "gayness'' and that men who are somewhat gay enjoy watching "she males" perform sexual acts because they see women with penis's and that satisfies their sex drive..... just his his theory, certainly open to discussion.

But the you both are right porn/transsexual/gender community is associated with porn and the fact that we lead normal (there's that word again)lives some married, some not, some business executives, professionals, students, is never thought about by most people because of porn and prostitutin...

Maybe we need a lobby group like the oil/gas/coal industry to show people we are " just folk" and we live our own lives and not a threat tho their sexuality or their Happy home

Yeah so pretty much what Nelly said was my point...just worded much better lol. Although I agree "general population" is a better term than "normal"