Cis gay men (FTM insecurities)

[OliverPerry]

5 a.m. and still can't sleep.

 

I have my first appointment with a gender therapist tomorrow at 10 a.m. and worry and self doubt are keeping me awake. 

I'm googling everything I can think of and many things I've read until now are making me incredibly depressed.

 

I've just searched the gay trans man dating issue, I wanted to know the opinions of cis gay males. 

What I found was terrible.

In a comment section of three pages, there were only two people who said they wouldn't mind dating a trans bloke and one of them was female. The rest was just horrifying. The phrase "If I wanted to date a trans man, I wouldn't be gay." keeps playing in my head. There was, of course, a long discussion between a cis bloke and a trans one, where the cis kept insisting that FTMs are not male just because they said they are. 

I've just lost hope of being able to one day find a partner. 

I've been living as a girl and I don't find it difficult to attract a bloke this way. But, even as female, I will never actually find someone because I just can't handle what it takes to keep the other satisfied. I've been avoiding straight men for a while now. Whenever I have the chance for something to happen, I ran away, even if I feel attraction. I'm simply not able to experience joy when knowing a bloke likes me (as a girl). Usually, when someone tells another they're attractive, the other is happy with the compliment. I'm not. I just feel like bloody screaming. So yes, dating as a girl is apparently easy but it depresses me deeply. I believe the bloke isn't truly attracted to me, even though he's certain that he is. 

 

I'm 24 and never been in a relationship. I have always ran away before things could turn into something more than physical attraction. 

I thought transitioning could solve my problem, that it could finally allow me to enjoy being with another as more than friends.

I already knew not all gay guys would be willing to have sex with a trans man, I just never thought it would be this improbable.

 

I have a gay flatmate (yes, I only know gay blokes, the straight ones scare me as hell) who has recently shared his wish to have sex with a trans guy. This should be a good thing, seeing someone who solely likes men accepting to date a FTM. My negative thinking says otherwise though. This is what I think: It's not that he wouldn't mind if the bloke was trans, it's that he wants him because he's trans, he wants to "experiment". I believe that, for him, being with a trans bloke is a way of feeding curiosity. Shouldn't he just find FTMs attractive just like he does with cis men? 

When I first read about "bottom growth", I attempted to see how it looks. I couldn't find anything, so I tried "FTM porn". I think this is part of the issue. On the internet, trans male bodies seem to be mostly represented in pornography. This is sure to contribute to turn transgender folk into a mere fetish for cis people. My flatmate seems to think that way already. I'm happy we just live together and aren't exactly mates. And, if I end up deciding to transition while still being in this flat, I'm definitely going to find another place to live.

 

As a rather likely pre-t FTM, who has only ever felt attraction towards the male species, I wouldn't be opposed to dating a trans bloke. I'm saying this not because I wouldn't want myself to be discriminated against but because, the truth is, I like men and I can feel attraction towards a trans man, this happened already. And this doesn't make me bisexual. I never once felt attracted to a girl. Trans blokes are still bloody blokes! And it doesn't even matter if they're post-op or not. I think male genitals are great but it's not what I find most attractive when thinking about a crush. It's something else I can't really explain. Oh and I bet many of those transphobic gay men on the internet have passed a FTM and thought "he's fit", feeling attraction without knowing he was trans. 

 

"The surgery" is something that worries me by the way. It's bloody frightening actually.

Top surgery is fine with me though, I don't fear it at all. 

But "the surgery" terrifies me.

I really wish I had been born with all male parts but it's really strange thinking about having a penis that was constructed by a plastic surgeon, even if it works relatively well.  

I guess there are trans men that prefer not to have bottom surgery and, even though I'm not comfortable with my female bottom area at all, maybe I would end up keeping it as it is too. 

I think this would hurt my chances of finding someone though. 

 

Oh well, any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

[reyindium]

Not all gay men will date a trans guy because they seek certain sexual preferences like a cis penis or ejaculation. And a lot of the attitude will be shaped by a particular community. One of my good friends is cis and gay. He says there is a lot of advocating for inclusiveness where he lives (Orlando, FL). He is a bear and does a lot within that subculture. He sent me this pic after I came out to him.

 

And he also said, "Huh. No wonder we fooled around in high school. I must've sensed your masculine spirit".

Because he 100% can not get aroused by females. He tried many times in his closeted years. But preT closeted me inspired him to "rise to occasion", so to speak.

So we both agree with you; being male is more than your body.

 

 

 

[OliverPerry]

2 hours ago, reyindium said:

So we both agree with you; being male is more than your body.

 

I just wished everyone shared the same opinion.

The comments I saw were really sad to read. 

I've talked about this before but I'll repeat myself: I don't understand how people who have been discriminated against, and feel affected negatively by it, are able to discriminate against others.

I realize that people can't forced themselves to be attracted to someone but I've also realized that most just dismiss the possibility of being with a trans person merely due to ignorant assumptions. 

 

2019 is almost ending, these issues should have vanished by now. The new generations are seen as "open minded" but what it seems to me is that the open minded ones are an exception.

 

[SaraAW]

In western society, there are a couple centuries of programming everyone needs to overcome, not an excuse, but it is what is. 
 

Also, lots of people are pretty shallow and believe that the wrapping on the present is the only thing that gets them excited. Women tend to be a lot more accepting than men and more likely to accept what’s inside too. Add to that the programming men are fed from the cradle, I know, I pretended to be one for years, and the deck is stacked heavily against you. 
 

That doesn’t mean you stop trying, it just means you’re likely going to have sift through a lot of male baggage before you find one. 
 

I hope as men, you and your friend can start to change that from the inside. I’ve tried, but I’m hurrying over my sisters, so I’ll have to start working from the outside. 
 

As to how a marginalized group can pick on another, I think this comes from several places. Trying to fit in with the “norms”, if the “norms” are picking on someone else, they’re not picking on me and it may feel like they claim back some power by trying to put someone below them. 
 

I agree that we should be further ahead in progressiveness, but the old powers are clinging onto their fading power as hard as they can with their shriveled old fingers. I’m hoping the resurgence in their strength is the final deathbed rally before they realize they’re beaten and need to let go. 
 

My last thoughts are this, stop reading what people say online, look out into the world and start making more human connections. It is easy for people to dismiss others in a digital world, much harder when you’re right in front of them. 
 

Stay safe, know that there are many people in the world who love you for you and that there are definitely people out there that will have a true romantic interest in you. 
 

*hugs*

[ShawnaLeigh]

Living for so many years as a former "guy" I can say from experience that the illusive "Nice Guy" is out there.  The ones who will treat you with respect and love and kindness.  Its what they have always wanted themselves.  They are often very shy and over looked.  They want a loving relationship just like we do. Not a one night stand or worse.  

It was always frustrating for me trying to find love as a guy when all the girls I liked were after the bad boy types.  Then complained about how crappy they were treated.  How heart broken they would be.  Kind of a "I told you so..." situation.

I admit to not having any experience on the trans side of this.  I do not know any trans folks nor had any experience with the LBGT community growing up and even in my adult years.  Hence why I say I am very naïve to much of this even being 52 years old.  

My sexual attractions are still for women so I have little insight on "getting a guy" too but I can remember how hard it was getting a girl being a nice guy who does all the right things and was not noticed for it.

They are out there hon.  Trust me.  It takes time to find them is all.  

 

[TommieAnne]

Time for me to chime!

Having first believed I was gay, I moved somewhat in the gay community. Dating gay men has been unfun. I'm expected to "put out" on the first date, I've experienced several "pump and dump" relationships/dates, received a lot of criticism for my looks, my body, for being to sissy, etc. As a whole, I think the gay community is probably not a great place to go looking for a relationship.

I just think there are a lot of group norms that don't make sense.

[Robin]

The whole subject of human relationships is made more difficult by the fact that so many people seem to be attracted to partners that will treat them badly.  Such relationships are often portrayed by the media as exiting and glamorous.  There is little incentive for anyone to be nice, as they will be considered boring.

 

Robin.