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Lucca

Opinion on the term "LGBT"

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Lucca

Excluding the T from the LGBT acronym tends to be controversial, but honestly, as a trans lesbian myself, there are a lot of times where I'd prefer to break it up and simply use "LGB" for many purposes, or do away with the acronym altogether. "LGBT" is supposed to be an inclusive term that makes it easier to communicate, but I find it just contributes to transgender erasure and makes communication more difficult.

 

One, very often when the full acronym is used, the speaker isn't actually talking about transgender people at all. Discussions about same-sex marriage are usually about "LGB" marriages, not "LGBT" marriages. When I was in high school, when same-sex marriage was the big, publicized controversy, the acronym "LGBT" was used frequently with only lesbians, gay men, and bisexual people being relevant to the conversation. Almost never did I hear anyone use it in a transgender context, and on the rare occasion where someone was talking about trans people, they'd normally just say "transgender" and not use the acronym at all. This happens less often now that trans people are more present in the public consciousness, but "LGBT" still tends to be about same-sex attracted people more often than not. I find this uneven usage to be a bit unfair to trans people, because it so often lumps trans people into controversies that have little to do with them, while same-sex attracted people don't experience the same thing in reverse.

 

Two, I don't think that same-sex attracted experience and transgender experience are really all that similar. There's a lot of crossover where a given individual is both (like myself), and there are a few notable similarities, like "coming out" and rejection from the same groups of people for similar reasons. However, I think they're ultimately very distinct, because one side is about who you are attracted to, and the other side is about who you are, and combining the two experiences into one term makes people view sexual identity and gender identity as more similar than they actually are. Transgender people also usually have to receive a lot of medical and therapuetic care and legal recognition that same-sex attracted people don't, and as such, require more societal cooperation in order to live as themselves than cis same-sex attracted people do. I'm not saying that cis same-sex attracted people have it easier, but I just... don't think that the two experiences are all that comparable, and I would appreciate it if society at large recognized this instead of lumping us together all the time. It causes confusion like the idea that trans people are just "super gay", which even extends to certain academic circles, like Blanchard's "homosexual transsexual" typology for trans women attracted to men.

 

Three, the concept of using an acronym as an umbrella term for increasingly different groups of people has become incredibly unwieldy as more letters and symbols have gotten tacked on, so that it's now "LGBTPAIQ+" or something even longer. The list of identities and concepts I've seen included in the acronym in some way now includes lesbian, gay, bisexual, pansexual, skoliosexual, demisexual, asexual, aromantic, intersex, polysexual, queer, transgender, non-binary, agender, bigender, genderqueer, and genderfluid, and I'm sure there are others out there. This just magnifies the issues I've already talked about above, where the term covers so much ground it's practically useless. Is an asexual person person really that similar to an agender person that it makes any sense to use the same term for them? What about a pansexual person and an intersex person? And once we have an acronym with eight or more letters, isn't it kind of a mouthful to use it in conversation or writing?

 

There are certainly times where using a term that does include all of them is useful, like at pride events where every single letter is being celebrated. And I certainly believe that anyone who supports any of the above identities should support all the others. However, more often than not, I just don't like the acronym, and I'm starting to cringe a little whenever I see it now. Unfortunately, using an acronym is so ingrained in our culture that we don't seem to be able to avoid it, while at the same time, shortening it has negative connotations due to people who use shortened acronyms like "LGB" as a means to exclude others and express resentment, rather than to simply be more specific and concise.

 

Generally, I try to avoid using acronyms and just try to speak specifically about whatever group I'm talking about. It's just too messy otherwise. I want to be recognized as a "transgender" person, not a "T" that's tacked on at the end. But I also don't want to contribute to lesbian, gay, and bisexual transphobia by expressing dissatisfaction with the acronym, or make it sound like I resent cisgender lesbians, gay men, and bisexual people. I mean, for all my complaints, there are still plenty of times where I say "LGBT" out of habit or because it's a recognizable term for most people. What to do?

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NB Adult

For a long time the GLB group resented the T tacked on their acronym and did their best to have them excluded from any favorable legislation. Their acronym platform is based on their sexual preferences while transgender is all about cross-gender designations rather than sexual proclivities. The term transsexual is also a rather insulting misnomer for trans folks.

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Lucca

Yeah, that's the problem. Leaving T out of LGBT has had negative connotations and impact for a long time. Yet, partly because the LGB's have often historically tried to distance themselves from us (and have also had more visibility and more political victories, historically), the T on LGBT hasn't really meant much, anyway, and leaving it there in the present day implies a more harmonious union than generally existed for most of the 20th century.

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ToniTone

I see your point in some regards. Our classification is different, and distinctions do need to be made. 

 

But I think it's better that we are included. First of all, we alone are a very marginalized community. I think last I read known transgender and gender non-conforming people make up ~.7% of the population (USA?). One of the smallest minority groups of all. Our rights our violtated because of this disproportion. We need to stand together with our fellow queers, and other marginalized groups for that matter! White, rich, elderly, able-bodied, cishet men in positions of influence (notably the "1%") are influencing the majority (the other "99%") to tear all us marginalized people down, to accommodate their own greedy needs. They want us divided, we're weaker then, no competition. That divisionists MO trickles down to every other group that would erase us, including trans exclusionary lgb's and terf's... Indeed, what rights we do have now we likely owe to the pioneering trans people (think Stonewall) who stood with the queer communities who were also fighting for their civil rights. 

 

Second (and this is my own personal take). I think sexuality is indefinitely queer for trans people. Some aspect of trans people, whether it's their biological body or their psyche/identity, is going to not be heterosexual. For example, me personally I'm bi/pan. I'm mostly attracted to women (cis or trans), which is same-sex. But I'm a pre-op trans woman who's also attracted to men-we both have the same "hardware", so it's kinda gay, even though it's straight. Again this is my own personal view for me personally, conjecture, I'm not speaking for our community as a whole. 

 

And indeed, in another example, many trans woman, before realizing they were straight women, identified as gay men. Or vice versa... In dialogue, sexuality and gender, whether directly or indirectly, have corelations. 

 

~Toni

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ToniTone

Also, I generally prefer to use the acronym LGBTQ, with the Q for queer being a generalization for all gender and sexuality diverse people. Unless the context I'm using specifically refers to the other sexualities and genders in the LGBTTQPPIAA+ acronoym. LGBTQ is just simpler. In fact, I really think we could just simplify it to Q...

 

~Toni

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Lucca
1 hour ago, ToniTone said:

First of all, we alone are a very marginalized community. I think last I read known transgender and gender non-conforming people make up ~.7% of the population (USA?). One of the smallest minority groups of all.

 

I definitely think that gay and bi people should stand up for trans people and vice versa. But does the acronym actually help with that? When I was in high school and early college in the U.S, roughly 2008-2015, same-sex marriage was the controversial political topic of choice, the defining political difference between young liberals and older conservatives. The term "LGBT" was used frequently, but almost exclusively in reference to gay and bi people who would benefit from the legalization of same-sex marriage. I was only vaguely aware that trans people were even a thing, and seeing the "T" all over the place didn't really do anything to educate me on transgender people since "LGBT" was being used almost entirely to refer to people who weren't trans. Then we finally got federal same-sex marriage, and it was hailed as a great victory for LGBT rights, even though the victory didn't really do anything for trans people, and was really just a victory for "LGB" rights.

 

For the most part, this is all fine! Not every social justice issue needs to be about trans people. It's not easy being gay or bi either, and gay and bi people had and still have many fights to win. I just dispute that sticking the "T" on the end of "LGBT" throughout this time period actually did anything to further trans rights, because both myself and everyone around me were totally clueless about trans people.

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ToniTone

None of the letters in LGBT educate you on what they are. Without context, they're just letters. And it's not like the LGB is one singular entity. There are issues exclusive to lesbians, as there arw to bi people, as there are to trans people, and so on. We find commonality in being queer and being marginalized. 

 

The point of the T being included in LGBTQ, in the queer community, is to bring visibility to the transgender community. Some people may never even heard the term transgender until they heard it in the LGBTQ acronym. 

 

This is all ideal and all. But I hear where you're coming from. At least the trans exclusionary lgb's acknowledge. us, even if it's negative. Some of the people who say they are for LGBTQ rights really mean just lgb and don't really even acknowledge transgender people in their sentiment. Sometimes it seems like we are an afterthought. 

 

Still, I personally don't feel like excluding the T helps us any... 

 

~Toni

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Maid In Bedlam

The way i have always seen it is by breaking it down.

 

L is a sexuality

G is a sexuality

B is a sexuality

 

T is a way of being.

 

Not quite the same really.

 

I dont no what im talking about really as i have never really seen myself under any one of those terms. Unless you make it LGBTTQ ++ whatever else. even i cant keep up

 

I have far more important things to do with my life than wonder about which pigeon hole im going to put myself in. But then again in say 30 years time with luck i am still around that long  I will i expect be just about to leave the earth so it doesnt matter to me. So ill just stick to the woman i aspired to be.

 

Also i would say the reason  that they want to split them up. At least this is my grasp of it. Is all the activists you get now for supposed trans rights. Some of them are just so over the top with there demands its untrue. Worse of it all is some of there ridiculous aims are acted upon. For instance. Mansize tissues as an example. Who gives a sausage if they are called mansize. It just means there bigger. Yes men are inheriantly bigger than woman. I have no issues with them being called mansize.

Where will it stop? manchester cannot be called manchester anymore? Peoplechester instead.  Womens hour on Radio 4 perhaps? Is that an insult to trans rights?

 

It was always my view that being trans you was transitioning from one gender to another. You was a man and you aspire to be a woman with the help of hormones, surgerys etc. It was always just a period inbetween. A path you follow with out stopping to smell the flowers on route.

 

In some ways you can understand why they want to break away from the T. They want to get out before the madness just gets more mad. As everyone associates they are all together therefore work as one movement. In reality they do not but joe public who doesnt read anything trans or activly goes out of his way to understand transness (If thats a word) will assume its those lot again with there silly demands.

 

Im sure if it remained how it was 10 something years ago everyone would will like the idea of the whole umbrella.

 

5 hours ago, ToniTone said:

Still, I personally don't feel like excluding the T helps us any... 

 

~Toni

 

Your right Toni. It doesnt help us. But sadly the ones who shout the loudest seem to be heard. Some of the loud voices are indeed the voices of ridiculousness.  They do not speak for me. I have my own brain.

 

Now im not saying all the other genders are wrong and not valid. Far be if from me to even assume such.  I do not have to understand them . I could never in some cases but that doesnt make them any less a thing.  But i will say some of them even to people within the comunity do not understand there essence. A gay man will never understand what a transwoman feels and visca versa.

 

 

 

I think i have now said to much. and will find myself a decent concrete bunker to sit this one out.

 

 

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Charlize

The LGB community has long been one of the only places where trans folks have found any acceptance.  If i look at sexuality and gender i see an odd reality:  I was a straight male until i transitioned.  I am now a lesbian.  If i had been gay i would now be straight.  The same holds true for FTM individuals.  That alone can tie us well into the LGB community.

Several members speak of the same sex decision in the Supreme Court.  I felt myself unable to legally change my gender until we received a positive decision.  Otherwise my legal transition might place my wife in great danger of loosing our assets to tax if i die before her.  There are many who feel we shouldn't belong in the LGBTQ community and should remain separate.  There're certainly many in the LGB community who wish we would disappear.  I hope we can stay united.  We are much stronger that way. Unity is often the best way to survive.  I for one have no desire to crawl back into the closet.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

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Timber Wolf

Hi everyone,

In the '80s there was an old frase "catch 22", which basically meant you can't win whichever way you choose, if I remember correctly. That seems to cover the LGBT acronym. The "T" was added because we have been such a marginalized group.  We had a very weak voice politically. If we exclude letters for genderfluid, genderqueer, pansexual, etc...  we might marginalize them. But as we keep tracking other letters onto the acronym,  it become unwieldy. It becomes so long that nobody, especially in the cis world, will know what it all means. They may become frustrated with it and resent it and us for it. You just get used to one rendition of it, say LGB, then they add another letter, LGBT. When one finally accept that, another letter is added, LGBTQ. Some want to end the additions by lumping all other groups into a +. But then those groups feel marginalized by us, and cis gender people question, "+ what?" It all looks confusing to me. I can imagine how confusing it is to cis gender folk. I fear the acronym may eventually be doomed, unless it can be changed into something less specifically descriptive but more all inclusive. 

 

This is just my opinion.

 

Lots of love, 

Timber Wolf 🐾

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Willow

I don’t know if anyone feels like I do but here goes.  I think a lot of people don’t understand how we can need to be someone that is defined at birth by dominant genitalia differently than we think of ourselves.  Most people understand but may not fully accept that there are LGB people as they have know about them longer in the public eye.  We, on the other hand weren’t really understood even by the medical community until relatively recently.  

 

Some researchers are are trying to prove a theory that we have an extra chromosome that is less dominant to our physical but sufficiently strong enough to change our mental state.  

 

It it is difficult for anyone who is not TG to understand us.  It is difficult for a lot of us to understand as well.  We are not LGB. We aren’t trying to change our bodies because we want to have sex with someone of the same sex. We aren’t doing it because of any mental disease all though we are often treated that way.  LGB, have already gone through this phase of being thought of as mentally wrong and were treated accordingly.  They still are in some parts of the world.  

 

We we are still in the prove to the mental health community that you are TG and need to be treated as such.  It’s also a money issue because when we are fully accepted the health insurance companies in the US will have to pay for our surgeries so they are fighting us as well and they are a huge lobby with the legislature especially since that also means government back medical plans would be the same.  The US hasn’t caught up to a large part of the western world in that regard.

 

the advantage to being part of the LGBT group is strength in numbers the problem is we don’t all have the same needs.

 

Willow

 

 

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Timber Wolf

Addendum to my opinion:

 

The word "transgender" is commonly used to describe what has been previously called transsexual. But transgender is actually an umbrella term in which many terms fall under, such as genderqueer, genderfluid, intersex, and so on...  

If we make this point clear, the acronym could stop at LGBT. It wouldn't even need the +. Just a thought.

 

Lots of love, 

Timber Wolf 🐾

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Willow

@Timber Wolf you are absolutely right the terminology for us has changed greatly over the years and even as recently as a year ago the medical code for insurance was using an old offensive name instead of transgender.  My medical records no longer use the wrong term but say transgender with out the diagnosis having changed.

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Maid In Bedlam
On 12/1/2019 at 2:08 PM, Timber Wolf said:

The word "transgender" is commonly used to describe what has been previously called transsexual. But transgender is actually an umbrella term in which many terms fall under, such as genderqueer, genderfluid, intersex, and so on...  

If we make this point clear, the acronym could stop at LGBT. It wouldn't even need the +. Just a thought.

 

 

I must agree with you timber. the word Transsexual  is not inclusive. its a spcefic gender condition. Unlike Transgender with is a broad spectrum of terms all roped in to one pigeon hole.

 

I said in my last post that i never considered myself LGB or T . I would say perhaps i did once during my transition the the T really meant transsexual. However Now i just regard myself as female. My transition finnished. I am no longer or at least do not see myself Transsexual or Transgender.

 

Yes i have asked the question: Should i even be here? on many occasions.

 

At the time Transsexual is if you like a super power. Not everyone has it. But everyone wants it. Or at least  aspires to have it. Hense the umbrella its been covered with.

 

On 12/1/2019 at 2:16 PM, Willow said:

 the terminology for us has changed greatly over the years and even as recently as a year ago the medical code for insurance was using an old offensive name instead of transgender. 

 

 

Just out of interest if you willing to share Willow. What was the past tense word? It will be interesting to compare it with the modern  words of this day. Just for a guide of how much it has changed.

 

No need to reply to this request should you not feel comftable.

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ShawnaLeigh

It is funny as I was thinking of these two words on my drive in this morning.

Transgender and Transsexual.

I realized then I do not fully understand either word it seems.  Or they can be used to group, or dare I say, Label oneself to what they think they are.

I identify as a MTF but also Lesbian.  So I am a "L" and a "T" in LGBTQ acronym.  In my mind anyways.

So I see it as I am transgender, switching from one gender "M" to the other "F", BUT not transsexual as I have not change my preference for which sex I am attracted to "F".  

Or do I have that wrong?  LOL

 

 

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Charlize
4 hours ago, Maid In Bedlam said:

What was the past tense word? It will be interesting to compare it with the modern  words of this day. Just for a guide of how much it has changed.

I can perhaps speak to this Maid.  While the words i see today may have existed in the 50's and 60's, i did not know them.  I remember the word transvestite that was used in the past.  The old dictionary i have defines that word as "a person addicted to wearing women's clothing".  Yikes, i hated that as a recovering alcoholic being very aware of the word addiction.  That affected me as a child and again when i started to deal with a life of sobriety.  When the word transgender or for that matter transsexual came to my knowledge it helped me find peace with a reality i had always lived with but had hidden in shame and fear.  It is amazing how words can affect us.

 

Hugs,

 

Charlize

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TammyAnne

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only person struggling to understand the various possible meanings of "T" - I thought I was just dense.

At best, I can say I'm some part of that flavor, with a distinct attraction to men (and the occasional mannish female). But when push comes to shove, I'm hanged if I know how to differentiate among the various T meanings.

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Jackie C.

You've got a point there. To me T is the thing my body keeps trying to make, but the drugs are suppressing (.10 at my last leeching). You're right that I don't really think of myself as a transsexual woman. I'm just a woman. I live as a woman. I'm social the way women are. I'm sad when people mis-gender me as male, even when I deserve it because I'm being a bitch.

 

The medical issues are transitory. But hey, transitory starts with a T as well. You could say I'm a transitioning woman. That's correct and gives people a handle to grab onto when they try to understand part of who I am. It's not all of who I am, but it's a splashy part and for some reason people are fixated on what's going on in my panties.

 

That's actually a good word. Transitioning. It wouldn't make me sad if the T stood for transitioning. I'm on a journey. I might need a little help along the way, but watch as I spread my wings and fly to the person I was meant to be.

 

Hugs!

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Maid In Bedlam
4 hours ago, ShawnaLeigh said:

 

I identify as a MTF but also Lesbian.  So I am a "L" and a "T" in LGBTQ acronym.  In my mind anyways.

 

So I see it as I am transgender, switching from one gender "M" to the other "F", BUT not transsexual

 

You getteing confused. Sex and gender are two completly diffrent things really.

 

Hense i said LGB are a sexuallity

T is a way of life.

 

I will say during my transition my sexuality changed dramatically. Once upon a time i liked Women. But now i do not find them really attractive in a sexual nature. Now i enjoy the looks and masculinity of men. It doesnt make you any less valid as far as transexuality is concerned. Your a Lesbian. Thats how you feel.  Its a personal thing. hell you get people marrying horses and even falling in love with ghosts. So i wouldnt over think that Shawnal.

 

 

4 hours ago, Charlize said:

I can perhaps speak to this Maid.  While the words i see today may have existed in the 50's and 60's, i did not know them.  I remember the word transvestite that was used in the past.  The old dictionary i have defines that word as "a person addicted to wearing women's clothing".  Yikes, i hated that as a recovering alcoholic being very aware of the word addiction. 

 

Transvestite. Now theres a word i havent heard in a while. a person, typically a man, who derives pleasure from dressing in clothes primarily associated with the opposite sex. Its that huge divide between that and Transsexual. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jackie C. said:

That's actually a good word. Transitioning. It wouldn't make me sad if the T stood for transitioning. I'm on a journey. I might need a little help along the way, but watch as I spread my wings and fly to the person I was meant to be.

 

 

Transitioning is a journey. But all journeys have a beginning and end. Some are mid way some have finnished and some just starting out. The secret is to complete the journey the best you can. The journey make take a while. You go at your own pace and the pace your desions make to give you the tools you need to end the transition.

 

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VickySGV

Just for fun, I am going to throw a wild pitch into this one.  I am on the Board Of Directors of an LGBTQ+ Community Center in my geographic community.  As a result of this I have access to the various groups under that umbrella (or bumbershoot) and interact with just about every one.  The shocker to most people is that even in the LGB parts of it, it is not actual sexual activity that is the subject, merely the acceptance of their identities in those sexualities that is important, which I keep finding parallel the experiences of Trans people in our searches for identity and acceptance.  A fun fact we kid about is that the "vile sexual acts"  they are accused of may never or only infrequently take place in the committed relationships, which again devolve into being socially identified as gay as a non-sexual life expression where their choice of partners is celebrated and not abhorred.  

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ShawnaLeigh
2 hours ago, Maid In Bedlam said:

I will say during my transition my sexuality changed dramatically. Once upon a time i liked Women. But now i do not find them really attractive in a sexual nature. Now i enjoy the looks and masculinity of men

I often wonder if the changes E can have on the brain will cause this in me.  It’s not that I haven’t considered it before when trying to figure things out about myself.  I suppose I will wait and see. I try to let this transition happen as it will.  To be as organic as possible.  Not forcing any one thing in my journey, though on the other hand I’m an extremely impatient girl.  Lol

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Maid In Bedlam
13 hours ago, VickySGV said:

.  The shocker to most people is that even in the LGB parts of it, it is not actual sexual activity

 

Got to agree with you on this one.

 

Ive said it somewhere in time before. "Sex is so overatated". The love you have for another person trumps all. Regardless of what you may think your attracted to in any sexual capacity. That feeling of someones always got your back is the best. Someone you want to spend the rest of your life with because you smile and you laugh together.

 

I could go on about the rules of engagement when it involves affairs of the heart. But do i really need to? We all have our own. Its what makes us tick

 

 

12 hours ago, ShawnaLeigh said:

I often wonder if the changes E can have on the brain will cause this in me.  It’s not that I haven’t considered it before when trying to figure things out about myself.  I suppose I will wait and see. I try to let this transition happen as it will.  To be as organic as possible.  Not forcing any one thing in my journey, though on the other hand I’m an extremely impatient girl.  Lol

 

Just because mine changed it doesnt mean yours will. We are all wired diffrent. I dont have to understand it or anyone else for that matter. We are all unique. You love who you want to love. as time passes you will relise what is important to you in a relationship.

 

I have always been a firm believer in the Best love is unconditional

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Willow

@Maid In Bedlam@ShawnaLeigh  The two terms were in fact Transsexual and Transgender.  Transgender is currently considered to be the most correct term.  We have gender dysphoria,   not sexual dysphoria.  The definition of gender verses sex.

 

would a child determined to be transgender at a very young age be more attracted to "the opposite sex" than someone who figured it out well after puberty, a young adult?  Would the young adult who had some sort of experience be more attracted to "the same sex"?  Is there any correlation?

 

Willow

 

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Maid In Bedlam
1 hour ago, Willow said:

The two terms were in fact Transsexual and Transgender.  Transgender is currently considered to be the most correct term.  We have gender dysphoria,   not sexual dysphoria.  The definition of gender verses sex.

 

would a child determined to be transgender at a very young age be more attracted to "the opposite sex" than someone who figured it out well after puberty, a young adult?  Would the young adult who had some sort of experience be more attracted to "the same sex"?  Is there any correlation?

 

Willow

 

 

 

 

 

Thats a good point Willow.

 

I can understand in this day and age how the lines between Transsexual and Transgender are now blurred by the current state oi world.

 

To simplify as possible. So i do not go on with a 100 page essay. (yes those regular reading of my posts will know i can without comeing up for air)

 

However in my personal opnion. transsexual would be associated with someone that wants to completly transform and travel from one sex to another. Regardless of the sacrifices that may need to be made to reach that goal. where Transgender would be used for a person who only identifys there gender as oposite and would not consider gender dysphoria a condition they associate themselves with.

 

Im quite old school and like my distance from the transgendered mindset

 

Im not saying its wrong to be transgendered but i do believe its a diffrent state of being.

 

As far as children are concerned. I would personally aire on the side of transgender. As you pointed out. you cannot associate there state of mind to a sexual attraction to the opposite or same sex. However. I will say. I Knew i was diffrent at about 7 years of age or there abouts. But could not say i was transsexual. But knew i wanted to grow up female. Just like many others. I did go to bed at night and prayed i would wake up a girl.

 

I was Transsexual and even if i would not consider it in my current life. My transition finnished and now i am accepted as a woman in society and by myself. This was as i mentioned above what i always wished for before i went to sleep in my childhood

 

 

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ShawnaLeigh

I tend to agree with @Willow on this.  I suppose it all boils down to your understanding and your definitions to both terms.  Both gender and sex can mean the same thing.  For instance. Your gender is male. Your sex is male.  However if you add the prefix Trans which means loosely. “The other side of”. *Wiki

It puts the terms more in prospective for me.  
I view a MTF or FTM as Trans-Gender.  You are moving from one gender, male, to the other side of male, which is female.  
The word sexual has a different meaning then the word sex.To me Sexual is a desire.  Sex can be the “act of” or your gender.  It seems to me trans sexual is my “sexual desire” moving way from my original desire.  In my case born male from females to males. 
Now in my case specifically I consider myself a trans gender women or MTF.  I however desire women still so I do not consider myself transsexual.   
 

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  • Who's Online   5 Members, 0 Anonymous, 151 Guests (See full list)

    • The Viv Element
    • Katharina
    • mxophie
    • MaryEllen
    • Petra Jane
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  • Posts

    • ShawnaLeigh
      Holy crap I miss a day and I seemed of been the subject of controversy.  My apologies to all since my original posting about a relationship with @Patti Anne most likely sparked this. Maybe not in the way I had hoped. I simply wanted to share my joy of finding her in a place I had not intended to seek anything more then friendship. @KymmieL does know a bit more though so does @Jackie C. and @Maid In Bedlam and @The Viv Element.   It is not so much a secret but something we discussed and decided started to share with everyone but the full extent of our still evolving plans have not yet been fully revealed to open forum.  However it’s no real secret that Patti Anne and myself are in a serious relationship that is definitely headed towards a life long commitment. Yes, Marriage has been discussed, a lot, but no official engagement nor dates or anything has happened yet.  We both felt a strong need for a larger commitment to each other before living with each other since this move is such a huge event in both our lives. Mine especially with packing up and moving 3080 miles across country to be with her.   My roommate, now ex wife Angela is 100% supporting this relationship and has helped me tremendously with plans and packing on my end and she is a true friend in ever sense of the word. (Which still weirds me out.) Though how many people can say their divorce costs then $45 total?  We truly have remained friends.    Patti and I deeply appreciate the support and acceptance from our friends here.    As for today.  I am one day away from my surgery and afterwards there is little else keeping me chained to VT.     As of right now I’m getting out of bed to go share some coffee with my roommate Angela and to wait patiently for my GF to text me.     Have a wonderful day!
    • Emily michelle
      It felt wonderful hearing that especially when I wasn’t even looking for it. I needed it my emotions have been a battle this week. The dysphoria has not been good. It seems my confidence comes in waves. In all honesty the intent of the outfit was to get a little sun I look like a ghost lol. I’m sure my neighbors were wondering and some younger people we know saw me when we were riding they didn’t stop and say anything but they were snickering which is fine I was exercising. I’m getting tired of hiding from the people I know. If the don’t like me that’s there issue. Now I just wish I had that confidence at work lol.  By the way Susan I love your new avatar pic. Errika I just wanted to thank you for your service.
    • Petra Jane
      Having recently taken on the site, forums, and many of the bills, from Dev and because I also want to be fully transparent about the cost of running the site, I feel it's time to update this information.    If you'd like to donate, please do so here.  The months of July through October are pretty heavy with annual and semi-annual expenses and every little bit helps.   Here's the breakdown as it stands now:   Chat:  $10.00 monthly. (Stu now runs the Chat)   Forums:  $45.00 every six months (February and August, effectively billed in January and July). Resource Locator:  $50.00 yearly, payable in September. Email Delivery:  $10.00 monthly. Server Rental:  $30.00 monthly. Security Software:  $90.00 yearly, payable in October.   Total Monthly Breakdown: 69.20 / month.   Now then.  I'm on a fixed income, which means I know what it's like not having a penny to spare.  If you're not in a position to donate, please don't feel guilty; I didn't take over here to turn a profit.  The lights will stay on.  Donations are very much appreciated, but they are not a requirement of membership.   Petra Jane
    • tracy_j
      Just one thing to think about which I have found with leggings Kay . I am UK size so won't quote actual sizes because of the difference but I found that I needed one size larger than my optimum waist size because of the size of my calf muscles.   Tracy
    • Petra Jane
      That was going to be my next thought.   It's pretty difficult to figure out (for me) where to tweak the colours for some of the boxes on the right hand side backgrounds. I was kinda hoping that the Firefox Dark Mode option would resolve most issues.   Ah well, back to the drawing board. 😪
    • Susan R
      To some degree this probably happens to many of us transitioning with and without spouses although I never heard it referred to as a ‘pink fog‘ stage. Obviously, before coming out fully about wanting to transition to female to my wife the topic just was never brought up. Shortly after coming out though, we seemed to talk about nothing else. So much so that we talked about a [future] time when transition, gender, and all of the issues it creates would not be a part of our regular discussion throughout the day. I’m really not sure that will ever happen. Now that we have become quite accustomed to our life as two married women, we no longer worry about it like we once did.  My wife and I find enjoyment with several support groups where gender issues are the main focus. Plus, we are both involved of online trans communities that we really enjoy. It hasn’t got to a point where a ‘pink fog’ has detrimentally affected our lives. If it ever starts to interfere with our life together, I’m sure we would make some changes in our day to day although I’m not sure what those changes would entail.   My Best, Susan R🌷
    • Janae
      Thank you Kay!  My wife and I have been married over 30 years, and more than half of those she has known about, and supported me.  Last year I came out to her fully that there is more to this. i have mentioned to her that I want to go to therapy, but she insists that it don’t need it.  In one of our discussions she mentioned “MTF runs in the family “ (I have a cousin that transitioned many years ago), it may be that she is worried that I will end up going to a therapist and starting the transition that day? When it comes to money, she controls it, and I have learned that I need to ask before spending it or risk her anger. Kay, please let me know how things go with you and your wife and your approach for therapy.  I too don’t want to go behind my wife’s back, but I know that I need therapy.   Thank you Kay ❤️   Janae
    • Sarahnr1
      Youre on the right  way  and thats  great  . Just take  this  ONE day at a  time  and dont try to rusch things in the hope things will get better faster.  And whatever you do DONT for one second  think that suicide is  the right  way to go as its NOT TRUST me on this.      And above  all  if you feel bad again DONT be afraid to come back here  and  also seek  help and support from the profetinals if needed  youre NOT alone  Rosalina      
    • Susan R
      @michelle_kitten Great response and some great advice!! ...I especially like the parts in bold in your well thought out post.
    • KayC
      Wow!  this hits so close to home, its almost as I had written it myself.  Going on 2 years now since coming out to my wife (only), but not really being able to talk about it because it always gets uncomfortable.  I can dress at home (mostly in private) but similar "boundaries" about  going out or going farther .. not really sure I am ready for that yet anyway so its not a big issue so far. I received a similar threat of "leaving" if I transition, but recently she denied she ever said that (I didn't forget), so maybe that is a hopeful sign. I recently made a determination that I need to open the communication again.  Big reason is I want to start therapy, and I don't want to do it behind her back.  I am hoping she doesn't see it as a threat but an opportunity for me to get my arms around my gender identity.  Hopefully it will include her at some point too .. and I feel unless we understand and support each other, it will be difficult to continue without one or both of us being unhappy in this relationship. Thank you Janae for posting this .. I too feel I am fortunate to have found this forum. Wishing you all the best in your journey  
    • Carolyn Marie
      I'm really glad you're feeling less down these days, Rosalina.  It's rarely an easy thing to transition, what with roadblocks and family issues and self confidence issues and everything else.  Just take it one day at a time, and every day that you can stand tall is a good day.  And every day when things look bleak, don't stop trying for better, and know that you can come here and find solace with friends who understand.  Take care.   HUGS   Carolyn Marie
    • Mx.Drago
      I missed my morning cup cuz spent the whole night up and spent most the day trying to rest with the neighbors blasting music that was so loud, the house vibrated from the bass. Looks like I got two black eyes, I'm so tired. But need coffee otherwise I start getting a headache. Use to be terrible, drinking up to 5 cups easy. Now I can barely have 2. My gut can only take so much abuse from acid.  
    • TammyAnne
      Depression is indeed a beast. Debilitating, paralyzing. Coupled with the shutdown, it makes things difficult. You feel trapped, no way out. Kellysinclair101 I sort of understand. I was homeless in the Boston area, living out of my car, for over a year. You have to have faith in yourself that you can find a way through this. Keep us posted on how you're doing, okay? 《《《 Big hug 》》》 TA
    • TammyAnne
      The best way. I'm jealous. Once upon a time I could drink coffee any time I wanted. Now it's just the early morning two cups and that's it. TA
    • Janae
      I have been having difficulty concentrating on things for the past few months. Today I was thinking about this more and it kind of felt like I was in a fog.  So I guess I have heard the term Pink Fog before I suppose, because I went ahead and googled it and came up with this post back in 2009 (oddly I could not find it here, but it looked like it was posted in this discussion group back in September 2009.   “Have many of you ever go through really bad pink fog stages where all you can think about is your gender issues? It seems like every two months or so this strikes me with a vengeance and I struggle to keep everything together. I am going through a pink fog phase at the moment and it is bitter sweet, I love the feelings and emotions I am experiencing and yet at the same time feel I am being smothered by a heavy weight of frustration.   I am struggling to keep on top of this and carry on with my daily activities, it's not so bad during the day when I have work etc to distract me but at night it is more difficult. Have you had these feelings and if so what do you do to manage them? My wife is very supportive but I can't talk to her about this as it makes her uncomfortable - I have already tried. It is so confusing and I just wished I could find a middle ground whereby I can be Rachael whenever the urge is there without being obsessed by the whole thing. Normally I am okay with being transgendered - love it in fact, but during these periods I find it a struggle as it makes me feel vulnerable and a bit lost.  “   Wow.  Yes, I couldn’t have described it better, or said it better, - same thing exactly but more frequently than every 2 months.  I have been dressing for the past 50 years. I found this forum a little over a year ago, and it has helped immensely knowing that i am not alone.  Everyone has been very supportive.   Things were going very well for me (my wife was supportive it seemed) until last October when my wife one day out of the blue told me she would leave me if I transitioned to a woman.  I was devastated as I thought things between us were going rather well.  (In retrospect- that week it was cold outside so I took advantage of that opportunity to wear a heavy coat to hide the fact I was wearing a bra and ran a few errands.  Maybe  my C cup was not so obscured) We have had some good discussion over the past couple of weeks and she told me she would have left me by now if she was unhappy.  So i am happy about that. She has some hard boundaries- no going out of the house wearing a bra, and I need to wear out some of my clothes before getting new ones.  I do love to shop, and have more bras and panties than she does.  She has a hard time wrapping her head around that, and has asked many times why i want to wear a bra when she hates it. I have tried to explain how it feels the right thing to be doing - it just feels right, (better than how I feel when I don’t have any breasts/bra) and when I look in the mirror I like what I see, but I think for a cis person they just don’t understand.     Probably way too much in this post - but if anyone has any of these feelings mentioned above how do you manage them?   Thanks for reading.   Hugs Janae
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