Jump to content
  • Welcome to the TransPulse Forums!

    We offer a safe, inclusive community for transgender and gender non-conforming folks, as well as their loved ones, to find support and information.  Join today!

Kaltia_Atlas

Transition with gene therapy?

Recommended Posts

Kaltia_Atlas

So I have been doing some research and have been asking some questions and I have decided to share with y'all what I have uncovered and get your opinions. PLEASE feel free to ask questions, add comments or share any other knowledge of the topic.

 

This topic came to mind when I was speaking with my therapist. One of the major factors to me being transgender is the untold depths of desire to conceive, carry and birth a child. For that matter, just to experience pierods! Anything to put me in the woman category I have dreamed of being in my whole life. So talking with my therapist, we decided some research into UTx and its subsequent surgeries was in order. UTx is uterine transplant btw. Which boils down to, being capable of producing your own estrogen without further HRT. *thats the ultimate goal*. But to achieve this goal, so many walls need to be overcome. 

 

So lets start with the first wall in our way. Bottom surgery. For MtF transgender, the penis is essentially inverted to create a neovagina. *there is more too it than that, however that is the basics*. But once the neovagina is created, the body doesn't really control the internals of the vagina. Not if there were a uterus or the other largely necessary components to control Ph balance and other womanly things I dont fully understand. Anyhow, the penis is reused to create the vagina, but the testicles are removed. Thus removing the majority of testosterone production. Without the hormone producing organ in the body, HRT is a requirement for life. 

 

That brings up the next wall. What if we could produce our own hormones and allow our own bodies to do all the work? Not possible? Blah. Every human being holds two genetic markers in their body. Foxl2 and Dmrt1. Foxl2 is the gene known for activating ovaries and creating estrogen. Dmrt1 is know for activating testicles and creating testosterone. Both are there, however only one is active. So what happens when the sctive one is turned off? The other turns on... A study with mice shows that a full grown male mouse with the Dmrt1 gene deactivated, will start to produce estrogen and other ovarian characteristics from the testicles. The same for a full grown female mouse vice versa. They do not change physical sex in any way. Just the chemical reactions of the genes changing what product comes from what is already there. 

 

Now for my proposal and questions. When an MtF transgender undergoes HRT and bottom surgery, would it be possible to do a UTx, along with gene therapy to activate Foxl2, to allow the MtF to create their own hormones? And eventually, conceive, carry and birth a child? Do some research and let me know what you think. I hope this could be possible in the near future...

 

If only I went to school for biology and research... Then maybe I could do these studies during my own transition.

 

Hugz ❤️

Kali

Share this post


Link to post
Dearhart

This is something I've thought of since puberty. I've long since wished I could "copy and paste" the whole ovary, uterus, vagina system into my body, cause not being able to bear children is really the sole source of my gender dysphoria comes from. 

 

I'm not sure how gene therapy would play into it, but i know it's doable. 

 

https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1471-0528.15438

Share this post


Link to post
Kaltia_Atlas

Ive read that article. One of the biggest issues with doing a UTx in trans women is the transferance of the vaginal tissues. Some of the tissue is not viable from living donors. And the neovagina from the penile tissue has not been verified successful. 

 

Gene therapy would come into play by deactivating Dmrt1 and allowing Foxl2 to activate to fill in those gaps that the neovagina cannot do on its own. Also, it would help to "reform" the vaginal area and help it heal into what the front/bottom area should be after surgery.

 

At the least, that is what ive gathered from my research

Share this post


Link to post
Dana Michelle

I've read that a uterine transplant costs $200,000. I've also heard that it is necessary to take immune suppressing drugs after having the transplant (which makes the patient more vulnerable to disease including some cancers), and the uterus will have to be removed once pregnancy is finished so that immune suppression drugs are no longer needed.

 

This article from 2012 https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/organ-transplants-without-life-long-drugs says "Patients must also take immunosuppressive drugs for the rest of their lives", though it also discusses an experimental technique to train the immune system to tolerate the new organ.

 

This article https://theconversation.com/stem-cells-could-regenerate-organs-but-only-if-the-body-wont-reject-them-122017 says that even tissues generated by a patient's own stem cells get rejected.

 

I would like to receive a uterine transplant, but in addition to cost and the immune suppressing drugs, I am concerned about how safe it is. Since a very small number of uterine transplants have been done (and probably none on transgender women), there is very little data.

Share this post


Link to post
Kaltia_Atlas

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6492192/

This article talks about the trials being done in Sweden. They have completed over 42 successful transplants and of those, 12 resulted in live births to date. There has been 5 successful transplants done in the US and 1 has resulted in a live birth, while several others are waiting for IVF. 

 

The science and technology is there. It is entirely possible to do UTx for women who are born unable to give birth. Not all trials include immunosuppressive drugs. Which is why I bring into question the possibility of using gene therapy for an MtF transgender woman. Since our gene Foxl2 is not active, would activating this gene allow for the UTx to be more successful? would it allow for the neovagina to grow and produce the needed Ph balance in the vaginal canal? 

 

With all of that said, how many trans women would line up for the chance to be able to give birth? I know when i start talking to my endo, i will see if she knows of any trials or any research being done in this field, and if not, then maybe reaching out to groups to see if they would be willing to start trials, or to include a trans woman in a current trial. 

Share this post


Link to post
Dearhart

If given access to the necessary information and specialists, i would definitely volunteer for the procedure.  Risks be darned. Of course, it's pretty easy to say that now, but still...it's been my one most visceral desire. 

Share this post


Link to post
ToniTone

I have considered this. Particularly the gene manipulation. Without having read too much into it, I imagine performing targetted gene alteration is complex and far from perfected. Most likely as the science is now, it is unachievable without negatively altering an undesirable part of the sequence, as such causing a mutation in it. But in theory it's possible. Someday, we may have the ability to alter our endogenous endocrine profile...

Share this post


Link to post
Kaltia_Atlas

The therapy in interested in only refers to altering a single gene. Deactivating Dmrt1. So in theory, it should be as simple as a single regimine of the therapy to alter the active state of Dmrt1 in the entire body. 

 

This of course would require already having had the full bottom surgery and any other necessary surgeries to consider the body female. The final surgery which should be when the gene therapy would br used, would have to be the Its.

 

As far as gene alteration, there are more than 50 different gene therapies ACTIVE and in use today. The knowledge is there. I want to push it further.

Share this post


Link to post
Dana Michelle
21 hours ago, Kaltia_Atlas said:

A study with mice shows that a full grown male mouse with the Dmrt1 gene deactivated, will start to produce estrogen and other ovarian characteristics from the testicles. The same for a full grown female mouse vice versa. They do not change physical sex in any way. Just the chemical reactions of the genes changing what product comes from what is already there.

 

2 hours ago, Kaltia_Atlas said:

The therapy in interested in only refers to altering a single gene. Deactivating Dmrt1. So in theory, it should be as simple as a single regimine of the therapy to alter the active state of Dmrt1 in the entire body. 

 

This of course would require already having had the full bottom surgery and any other necessary surgeries to consider the body female. The final surgery which should be when the gene therapy would br used, would have to be the Its.

 

As far as gene alteration, there are more than 50 different gene therapies ACTIVE and in use today. The knowledge is there. I want to push it further.

If altering the gene causes the testicles to produce estrogen, how would it work on someone with full bottom surgery? With full bottom surgery, the testicles are removed.

Share this post


Link to post
Kaltia_Atlas

Thats where the UTx would be required. If the organ that produces hormones is available, the active gene uses it to prodice its intended hormone. Wether it be testes or ovaries, the gene is what decides which hormone to produce. 

Share this post


Link to post
Dana Michelle
2 hours ago, Kaltia_Atlas said:

Thats where the UTx would be required. If the organ that produces hormones is available, the active gene uses it to prodice its intended hormone. Wether it be testes or ovaries, the gene is what decides which hormone to produce. 

Does the uterus produce hormones or does UTx include an ovarian transplant?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Kaltia_Atlas

The UTx is the whole reproduction system. Uterus, ovaries, all the way to the vaginal canal *at least what can be used from a donor*

 

The intention of a UTx is for women who are unable to produce eggs. Their system for what ever reason does not function properly. This transplant allows them to be capable to become pregnant again/to begin with.

Share this post


Link to post
Kaltia_Atlas

So... Doing a little more research, its possible the UTx is just the uterus. I'm wondering if there is a further surgery that would include ovaries. A complete transplant. Not totally sure. 

Share this post


Link to post
Dana Michelle
1 hour ago, Kaltia_Atlas said:

So... Doing a little more research, its possible the UTx is just the uterus. I'm wondering if there is a further surgery that would include ovaries. A complete transplant. Not totally sure. 

I've heard it is easier to transplant only the uterus than to transplant the entire reproductive system. On Wikipedia it says, "Ovary transplantation, giving rise to successful pregnancies, will result in children who will have the genetic inheritance of the organ donor and not the recipient; it has so far only been carried out on identical twins." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transplantable_organs_and_tissues#Ovary It also says Lili Elbe had an ovary transplant (and later died from surgical complications). When it says it has only been done in identical twins, I don't know if that means that ovary transplants that resulted in pregnancy have only been done in identical twins, or if any ovarian transplant (whether it results in pregnancy or not) where the patient survived has only been done on identical twins.

Share this post


Link to post
Kaltia_Atlas

I'll be asking my endo about it when I have my first appointment

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   10 Members, 0 Anonymous, 115 Guests (See full list)

    • Mary Jane
    • SaraAW
    • Dinaki
    • BorderTerrierFan
    • Cyndee
    • Susan R
    • Jackie C.
    • Sara Rose
    • Patti Anne
    • Liam da potato
  • Topics With Zero Replies

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      71,350
    • Total Posts
      648,311
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      7,072
    • Most Online
      8,356

    Rorelai
    Newest Member
    Rorelai
    Joined
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Freyer
      Freyer
      (49 years old)
  • Posts

    • Dinaki
      ( I know Cyndee dear, the stupid covid thing is staying for good. I am stuck in US, I have my suitcase here constantly staring at me and flights to Athens all canceled. Plus I was physically attacked by my husband, so for me there is no where to go that wait and wait in this room, I feel imprisoned ) All right, I vented now and I still feel like... "je ne sais quoi"
    • Susan R
      Welcome @Alayna643. It’s a pleasure to have you here with us. The need seems to always be with us even if we don’t acknowledge it. We learn techniques to help bury that need but much of the time, those efforts create other difficulties in our life. It’s good that you see the importance of addressing it. You're still relatively young so you have plenty of time to prepare yourself for a smooth transition. The security of your retirement is important and understanding your particular situation and risks are something only you can determine. Each of us has to make our own choices on timing, approach, and who to trust. I wish you the best on making these decisions but we are here to help you any way we can with information, advice, and support through friendship.  Thank you for sharing some of your story.   Warmest Regards, Susan R🌷
    • SaraAW
      Washable. My wife's cousin is a seamstress, made us a bunch. They even have slots to insert filters to reduce how much respiratory droplets make it through and increase the protection to others.
    • Cyndee
      Hi Dinaki, I made my own double layered cloth masks on my sewing machine.   We did purchase a package of 100 "disposable" paper masks, that was about $40 on Amazon as I recall. There are lot's of choices, and having options is a good thing.   This virus is not going away anytime soon   Best   Cyndee
    • Dinaki
      Do you use washable cloth mask or the disposable ones.   I want to get a pair of reusable ones and I don't know where exactly. I did check QVC and the trio costs around 30 dollars plus shipping, is that the correct price? covid masks. Where do you get yours?
    • SaraAW
      I have also heard, anecdotally, that it can help move people further through the Tanner breast development stages and result in a more fuller and rounded breast. Science is very limited on trans applications right now. Lots of trans woman I come across swear by it. As Mary said, something to discuss with your endo.
    • SaraAW
      I understand your feelings towards your birthday. I share similar sentiments with mine. I turned 40 last month, I didn't really mark the day other than to take mental note that this is the last birthday that goes by in hiding. I took the day off work to lay in bedroom, listen to music and wait for the day to pass. I am already looking forward to celebrate my next birthday as myself. I hope you can start celebrating your birthdays as yourself. Hugs!
    • Jackie C.
      No, you're right. I was on Finesteride in the beginning, but we swapped it out because of my... liver or maybe kidney numbers after about four months.   Hugs!
    • Susan R
      I too suffered from the denial defense far too many times.  For me, it was much quicker and easier and didn’t seem to disrupt the current facade I was living at the time.  On occasion, I wonder if my life would be in a better place if I had not used that defense at different points in time. I go back and forth on whether life would’ve been better or not but it’s all in the past. We do the best we can. Reflection on these things is expected but don’t beat yourself up. The good news is that you’re finally looking at it straight on and doing the best you can to move forward.   Susan R🌷
    • SaraAW
      Jackie, I think you are of thinking of Spironolactone (Spiro), which is a diuretic, I do not believe Finasteride has diuretic properties. 
    • Courtney
      I haven't liked my birthday for several years now (so it's not just because we're in the middle of a global pandemic), but yesterday was especially rough.  A quick recap for those who haven't read my intro. post, I've been living invisibly for the past 13 years and became visible to my spouse 8 years ago.  She is extremely unaccepting of me being transgender.    But I digress, she decided to take the day off of work yesterday, even though she knows that I didn't want to recognize or acknowledge the day in any form or fashion.   I got sick yesterday from a weekend cookout, so that didn't help my mood.  During some of my complaining about an unwanted social media post that she made earlier in the day I said to her, "you know I hate my birthday."  At that point she got completely into my personal space (which isn't something you do to someone feeling under the weather) and asked, "why do you hate your birthday? I want more..."     That got me thinking.  She should know why, but then this is just her denial surfacing again.  If I really told her why I hate my birthday, would she accept it and respect my wishes.  Probably not...  The answer is, I hate my birthday because right now it recognizes someone who I am not.  It doesn't celebrate my authentic being.  When I become visible to my beloved family and friends who support and accept me for who I am, then I will look forward to my birthday every year.  Until then, mum's the word.   Thanks for listening, Courtney
    • SaraAW
      Hi Alayna, beautiful name. I thought my family would initial reject me, they surprised the heck out of me and are fully accepting. I too have not come out at work. I work in safety & security for a private company and while I think my employer and most of my colleagues would be accepting, I worry what it could do to my ability for employment outside of my current company. I now permanently work from home, instead of our corporate offices, so it has bought me quite a bit of time before I need to come out to them. I wish you the best of luck in your journey and hope you don't have to wait too much longer.
    • gender-dysphoric
      @Tori M and @Chrysalis thanks! i've definitely been feeling better even since yesterday though when i started to realize that i really have very few of the same experiences of detransitioners and that i don't need to have all the answers—honetsly, now i'm happy enough with my transition for the moment, so i'll let myself live a little more.
    • Jackie C.
      It's also a water pill. I don't really MISS being on it, but I lost twenty pounds of water weight while I was on it. I do miss being 178 pounds. 😋   Also, I don't miss the extra "up to pee" moments in the dead of night.   Hugs!
    • Astrid
      That's Finasteride.  My doctor made the same recommendation    Hugs,   Astrid 
  • Upcoming Events

×
×
  • Create New...