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Suicide Vs Deathwish


Guest Jean Davis

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Guest Jean Davis

This may sound weird but I think it's something to discuss. Where suicide is talked about alot the subject of having a "death wish" is very seldom heard.

My definition of a death wish is such, when someone does highlt dangerous stunts or actions without regaurd to the consequences.

Some examples of what I would consider a death wish comes from some of my own experiences. In high school some of my neighbors had motorcycles and ATV's, which in itself is fine. But the stunts I did with them could only be defined as a death wish. I would would often be seen jumping gravel piles for 40 or more feet and traveling through heavily wooded areas at high speeds. At that time I wrote it off as being one of the guys, but now I realize that I was the only one taking these chances.

When I got my licience I just had to have the fastest most powerful car I could get my hands on. I ended up with a 1973 Plymouth Satilite Sebring Plus with a 440 Magnum and a 4 speed. That car on occasion seen more air than pavement. Often times going almost 3 times over the speed limit and twice over recomended speeds around curves. The only explanation I can think that kept that car on the road or in one piece is that God wanted me to survive for some reason.

I know that for many of us taking a hazardous job or taking chances was a way to affirm our gender. But when I did the things I did there was no one around, no one to say this is too hazardous or to save me if something did go wrong. As I got older I luckly ( or maybe with Gods help) started pulling myself away from these activities.

Now it leaves me wondering if these weren't suicide attempts at a subconscience level.

At the time I never saw it that way.

Jean

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Guest AllisonD

I had a friend in the '80s with what I think may have been a similar experience. She was post-op when I met her, but when she related her story to me I saw what was perhaps the same motivation as you are expressing.

She joined the Army, then Rangers, specifically to go to Viet Nam when it was still hot. She did 2 (was it 3?) tours, always volunteering for the really dangerous stuff. The kind with survival rates in the small numbers. She survived, but explained that she never had intended to. She couldn't kill herself, for some reason I never did quite catch, but she felt that if life killed her, did the deed for her, then that was OK. So she sought it out, in the most likely way she could think of.

She too felt that providence intervened on her behalf, kept her alive. When the war was over and she was discharged, she had no more excuses and decided to transition. It did not seem to me that she was happy (her transition wasn't all that successful), and I had the distinct impression she was going to find a new way for life to kill her. I haven't seen her since '86 or so, and so have no idea whatever happened to her.

It is only my opinion, but I think she never found out how to listen to her heart, to discover her true desires. Sad, really. One has to know what the heart really wants in order to be happy.

Allison

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Guest Donna Jean

Good one, Jean!

I was a lot like you!

Reckless (Death wish?) I really didn't care...

Motorcycle at over 100mph?...no problem...

Sports car at 135 mph...no sweat...

Flying airplanes...fun...

Running from the cops?...childs play...

But, why was I acting that way?

Well, Donna Jean was there at the time and I had no way to handle it, so..............

I went overboard the other direction...multiple times I should of been killed or maimed...

It didn't happen.....

Was someone saving me from myself?

Was there a bigger plan?

You ever T-Bone a Buick with a Harley?....It hurts..OWwwwww

Still here, Donna Jean

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  • Admin

It's been my therapists view that the number of transgendered folks in high-risk occupations is way

out of proportion to our percentage of the general population. Cops, firefighters, military,

medics, you name it. I think that's part of the same pattern of risk-taking behavior.

Carolyn

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I have never been in any of those types of dangerous situations yet I often rode with the madmen!

People who thougt 70 was a good speed in residetial areas and driving down a winding hill at night with the lights off and not using the brakes because he felt that the car he had just dropped a bottle rocket under was an unmarked police car - I've had my share of that.

But I never purposely put myself in harms way like driving that way myself, mountain climbing, sky diving and the like - I guess I have always been too much of a coward.

It does make sense that people who have pretty much given up on life will take much greater risks and the MTF would feel the need to constantly prove themselves.

Love ya,

Sally

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Guest ~Brenda~

Hi Jean,

I think that most of us can attest to some activities that we engaged in when we were younger, that makes us now have this wave of panic come over us when we think about them. I sometimes say that I survived my teens and early twenties. Young people have a tendency to think that they are invincible and that nothing is going to happen to them. I was once such a person. All the stunts that I had pulled (especially during my teens) it is a wonder that I am still here.

I cannot say that you had a death wish. I think you were simply young and did not consider the possible cosequences of your actions which is quite normal for young people.

I am glad that you are now wiser and safer.

HUGS

Brenda

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Guest Jean Davis

Just a thought that poped into my head.

Should we maybe be looking for these types of actions as early signs to a bigger problem.

If so is there anything we could do to help.

I mean when I said I was reckless there was more than that ( I just didn't want to make a book out of it)

I mean if someone is feeling that poorly about themselves it could just be playing out as a different form of suicide.

Jean Davis

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Guest Elizabeth K

Jean Davis

Never talk, do we? BUT that TOPIC! OMG it hit home!

I commute 100 miles a day - on an elevated highway over the swamp - it is too naarrow for the cops to pull you over most places so they don't patrol except at the entry and exit points - So we (me and my fellow idiots) have about 40 miles of unsupervised speedway. And to make it worse, many are plant workers (read that as younger type rednecks) - 20 to 35 year olds with money to by huge pick-um-up-trucks with macho engines People going just 85 MPH know to stay in the right lane. I personally was pased by three pick-up trucks in about a three mile stretch - I was going 95 in my convertible Eclipse - which is light weight and has a large engine. I was racing another Eclipse at the time - a hard-top which carried more weight so I was pulling away .... zoooom... I couldn't believe it! Passed me like I was standing still... soon zoom - zoom - two more. Must have been racing too.

Then later in the month I got pulled over by a cop - and I was dressed gender appropriate and forgotten to put my license in my purse - I posted about it. Then this Monday I got stalked on the Interstate - posted about that - but I didn't tell I was going 60 plus to get away (I didn't succeed) in semi-rush hour traffic...

So this Thursday - driving to a job site (I am in construction) - going about 75 - about usual for me - I realized I might be two minutes late - so I started looking to see how I could get through some of the traffic...

WELL - change of pace here! Hummm. without a lot of detail - I either have a guardian angel, or good intuition - or GOD talking to me ( I posted on that in the Christianity Forum) I am not crazy - this VOICE has pulled me out of MANY FIRES. Example - in about 1996 (I know seriously senior) my daughter was in a dance review (one of about a thousand she participated in) I had my cameraa - no film! (pre digital camera era). My wife was peeved - so I dropped her, my daughter and my son off at the theater - drove the two miles to a Walgreen's and was rushing to get back to the Dance Review before it started. The light in the intersection was green for me. I was not really speeding or being reckless, but I was anxious to get back.

A voice DON"T GO THROUGH THIS INTERSECTION! I STOPPED for a green light! Who ever does that? No one behind me so it was okay.

BUT- ZOOM - across me - running a red light - full speed - red red red light for him - been green for me for at least thirty seconds - ZOOM - a speeding car. I would have died instantly!

So I listen to that voice. VERY rarly happens - but sometimes, I get told to drive another route. Or to wait a few minutes before I start a trip. A voice... hummm ... maybe I am nutz.

Okay - what the heck does this have to do with the topic? Yesterday the voice came to me - on the way to a Job Site out of time - I was on the Interstate. It said "If you want to live to transition, NEVER drive over 80 MPH again." WHAT? Why me LORD? I LOVE to drive fast!

But I want to live to transition - so I now set my cruise control at 79.99. Happy now my dear GOD? YES He is. He smiled on me after that - I could feel it!

Maybe it was common sense kicking in (doubtful) - maybe it was all the close calls of my life coming to a head (too many to count) BUT - it's about what this TOPIC discusses?

DEATH WISH

I always felt - GOD - you made me transsexual and I HATE IT (well, not anymore). I don't want to be so miserable! Do you mind if I test this a little bit? I mean, I cannot just shoot myself or take pills (I thought) but...

Death by automotive high speed? Ya' want me GOD? - here I am! YOUR CALL. Well HE would't take me! (pill overdose either it turned out - never got down to using a gun).

I gave him a chance... HE must have other plans for me...

Oh Goodness - IS THAT UNBALANCED! Almost as bad a hearing voices maybe? Grin. DEATH WISH - MALE BEHAVIOR - I AM NOT MALE! I thought I had lost it now that I have hardly any T and I am pumped full of estrogen! BUT I love fast times - fast cars - fast speeds...

WAIT

Until yesterday. Maybe my femaleness finally got through - DON"T SPEED ANYMORE - well 10 MPH over. I am so grateful the voice didn't say 70 MPH... but I guess there is always tomorrow - ouch!

BUT IT IS VERY REAL - I have to trust that voice. I want to live to transition.

WOW

Lizzy

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Hmm, interesting. Can't say I've ever done anything like that, I guess I'm not a real reckless person. Worst thing i can think of off the top of my head that I've gotten into was a mosh pit. I've never been in the middle of one, and the ones I've been in weren't all that huge and crazy. Worst thing that's happened there was i got kicked in the arm and fell over by this kid who was "Hardcore dancing". I was fine. Had a bruise the next day, but nothing nasty.

I knew a guy who punched brick walls in order to kill the nerves in his hand, so he could get in fights with people bigger then him without his hand hurting.

I knew a suicidle women who walked around dangerous streets at night hoping someone would grab her.

Sad that for some people it seems like the only way.

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Guest Jessica22450

I'm no stranger to idiotic stunts, I use to do them during childhood. I felt like I had nothing to lose, Plus there was the desire to be "One of the boys" As far as subconcious suicide attempts or a death wish, That might have been what it was Some of the stunts I did should have killed me but didn't. I'm in my teens but my wreckless days are for the most part over. Because after one of my stunts hurt my cousin instead of me, I stopped doing it.

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Guest NatalieRene

I don't know that I have ever had a death wish on the high way but I have had some really scary close calls all the same.

The worst was when I found myself to the right of a Cadillac Escalade SUV and to its left a Silver G6 in the far left. Well the G6 lost control and hit the guard rail and came back into traffic and through sheer stupidity the Escalade over compensated from being struck on the side and did a donut in the middle of the high way at 70 miles a hour while I was passing at *ahem* faster then that speed. I had one option at that moment step on the gas and fly into the right lane and hope to god no one was in the lane or I was going to be road kill. Turns out there was a car in the right lane and I missed the person by less then a car length. I literally had my life flash before my eyes as I precoded to pull over to the shoulder and stop and stayed there for well over a hour as I just shook with my hands glued to the wheel. When the cop showed up I guess by the expression on my face he must have assumed I saw what happened so I gave my account of what happened. But I was so shook up that it was hours before I could continue on my way down to Quantico for work where I was stationed at the time.

The other ones where not nearly so life threatening but I have had to swerve around a car that had it's mattress fly off the roof of the car because the driver didn't properly tie it down.

Thankfully I work in DC now so I can stick to the back roads and avoid the highways.

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Guest Evan_J

Always listen to the little voice Lizzy. It truely is the voice of the Holy Spirit. Don't ask, just know that its true.

Personally (but maybe this is just a FtM thing?) I would think the risk behaviour is an indicator of depression . "I have nothing to lose so I might as well do this why not"

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Guest Elizabeth K
Always listen to the little voice Lizzy. It truely is the voice of the Holy Spirit. Don't ask, just know that its true.

Evan

I am thinking that may be the truth. I thought it was GOD speaking, but as the Creator, GOD is very large in his interests - but with infinity of course HE has all the 'time in the world." Oxymoron... but you understand.

As the Holy Spirit, He would of course be more with us as the Holy Spirit resides inside our being.

I have seen Jesus in my dreams, but he never spoke to me - he just was so JOYOUS and Happy - I was amazed - a Laughing Jesus - that's how he appeared to me.

And there I go - all is so personal and sacred to my heart - I rarely share. Is that wrong? Perhaps.

But - suicide and deathwish? It's against all that God the Creator, Jesus the Savior of mankind, and the HOLY SPIRIT have prepared for us. Yet we dance around that evil, fascinated and tempted. We are especially prone to the DARK SIDE as transpeople. Maybe that is our test?

Donno

Lizzy

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Guest darlene lynn
Evan

I am thinking that may be the truth. I thought it was GOD speaking, but as the Creator, GOD is very large in his interests - but with infinity of course HE has all the 'time in the world." Oxymoron... but you understand.

As the Holy Spirit, He would of course be more with us as the Holy Spirit resides inside our being.

I have seen Jesus in my dreams, but he never spoke to me - he just was so JOYOUS and Happy - I was amazed - a Laughing Jesus - that's how he appeared to me.

And there I go - all is so personal and sacred to my heart - I rarely share. Is that wrong? Perhaps.

But - suicide and deathwish? It's against all that God the Creator, Jesus the Savior of mankind, and the HOLY SPIRIT have prepared for us. Yet we dance around that evil, fascinated and tempted. We are especially prone to the DARK SIDE as transpeople. Maybe that is our test?

LIZZY

God does have a sense of humor. I believe Jesus was laughing in your dream.

God created humans..that proves to me He laughs alot..

Darlene Lynnette

Donno

Lizzy

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Personally (but maybe this is just a FtM thing?) I would think the risk behaviour is an indicator of depression . "I have nothing to lose so I might as well do this why not"

I think I agree with this. From personal experience, looking back at it most of the really really dumb things I've done can be attributed to that sort of way of thinking, and in the larger picture to depression. Logically, what Evan said makes sense also. I don't think I've ever admitted to myself that I ever had a deathwish, but I think it may have been there as an unacknowledged force, so to speak. It's mostly gone for now, though.

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Guest Steven22
Now it leaves me wondering if these weren't suicide attempts at a subconscience level.

At the time I never saw it that way.

Jean

This brings me back to March 5th 2007 at 4:30 in the morning on route 62. I woke up after having fell alseep at the wheel with cruise control on, set at 75mph to a telephone pole about 20 feet from me. I was traveling north bound on the right hand side of the road before I fell asleep, when I came to I had just pasted the line that indicated the shoulder on the south bound lanes. I past 3 lanes of traffic without getting hit, ok there goes all my luck in a life time. So I am sitting in my driver seat dazed going 75 mph and I think I got the word "Holy" out and turned my wheel about a quarter of a turn to put the impact off centered of the driver seat, important to note i turned left. I blacked out as I lost control and hit a second telephone pole a mail box and a fence post (the fence post was a piece of a telephone pole. I hits the mail bax and the fence post with the rear of the car and the second telephone pole on the driverside front wheel. In the investigation that followed it was determind that if i had wheeled my car right I probobly would not be here today to tell this story. I was still in the military at the time and I ll never forget what that MGysgt(E-9) told me (in all exactness) "You are one lucky SoB, you have a gaurdian angel or something, I don't know why you are doing it but I hope this wakes you up". After a full medical exam I had 2 bruises, one on each forarm.

I contemplated sharing this on this thread for a while. I call it my unspoken cry for help that answered itself. I say that because it is one of many escapades similar to this one but to this date the last. Not one of my prouder moments.

Thanks for listening :)

-Lauren

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Guest Jean Davis
BUT IT IS VERY REAL - I have to trust that voice. I want to live to transition.

WOW

Lizzy

Hey Lizzy

I can't say I ever had a voice, It always came to me as just a little something that seemed out of place. Most of the time it would be so insignificant that most people wouldn't notice or think twice about it, but for me it sends up red flags.

One example is that I was heading over to a fiends house at night. On the way there it started to rain real hard but that wasn't going to slow me down (what the heck I could still make out where the road was so 60 mph I went). So I slowed down to turn down the gravel road that he lived on and got my speed back up to 60. Once I got up to speed I saw that little something (I don't even remember what it was). I immediately hit the breaks ( to the floor), My truck slid through a wire fence and stopped in the middle of a cow pasture. I looked out the windshield to see that I came close to hitting a tractor with a hay tine attached to it (hay tine - a 6 to 8 foot long metal rod about 5 inches thick used to pick up and transport round hay bales). Unfortunately the gravel road turned out to be a long driveway, but on the bright side I got the truck stopped 10 feet before the tine would have hit the windshield .

Jean Davis

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