Outed

[Guest *Elizabeth Anne*]

I have a very serious topic here I need to discuss. My usual way starting a TOPIC is to do a preamble and then perhaps write an opinion I might have - and then ask for comments. This time I am going to present facts and ask for opinions.

I was outed by my sisters (my family ) to my sister-in-law (my wife's family). Neither my wife nor I gave them permission to do so. My sisters KNEW I was not ready to out in my small town. It was a deliberate telephone call with the single purpose of outing me.

And the real strange thing? My sisters live in Texas and my sister-in-law land her family live here in Louisiana. These families are NOT close friends, only aquintenances.

My sister's intent? We think it was to have my sister-in-law tell my wife to leave me.

Fortunately my s-in-l refused!

I want to keep the high moral ground here. I do want to mention my sisters are both self defined Fundamentalist Christians.

They also claim they love me. They claim I am getting farther away from GOD. They deny that there is such a thing as gender dysphoria.

WHAT DO I DO?

Elizabeth

[Guest Emily H]

The christian Bible was written by men who had their own politics and ideas in their head, not the direct word of God. The message of Christianity is to spread peace,. love, glorify the Lord. Jesus came to this Earth to teach the Jewish that. The Jewish were not loving God, but following tradition and rules. On top of that, God created you, He created me, he created everyone. To create a child that is imperfect, that is an 'abomination' as the Bible says, would be imperfect, it would mean God was not divine.

Tell them that. Make sure they understand that. If they don't... Then they just simply might not be the best family, you will have to tell them to leave you alone, to let you live your life, and tell them they should focus their efforts into doing some good to the world.

Or even take the Doctor House method and tlel them they are all idiots, give some science thing about God not existing, and when they respond, just call them an idiot in a funny way. Hehhehe, but that never works out well in the real world . So don't' try it.

~Andrea

[Guest Wendy D.]

You call her and you jack her up! You tell her to mind her own business! How does she think that outing you, trying to convince your spouse to leave you and shaming you is going to bring you closer to God? Jeasus didn't use hateful tactics to bring people closer to God; he used love. Maybe she should take a page from her own book? If she is going to call herself Christian then perhaps she should start acting like one...something that all so called Fundamentalist Christians ought to try actually.

Wendy

[Carolyn Marie]

Elizabeth, dear:

I can't tell you what I would do from personal experience, because I don't have any to share.

I can tell you what I would do if I were you, however:

I would tell your sisters directly how I felt about what they did. I would tell them that I

felf betrayed. I would tell them them they owed me an apology, and until I received it,

I would not speak with them again.

Harsh, yes. Do they deserve it, I think so.

I am so sorry they did this to you my dear friend. Regardless of how justified they think they were, they

had absolutely no riight.

If there is anything I can do or say that will help, know that I'm here for you.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest NatalieRene]

Anything you do to yourself to reflect your self image is not a affront to God. In the bible it even says if your eye offends you then pluck it out. So if our equipment offends us and we get rid of said equipment then it is fine with God and we are no less of a person to God. Transition is in no way leading you astray from God's love and grace and anyone who says anything to the contrary is lying or at the least severely misinformed.

Regarding their belief of dysphoria I would simply say your belief in gender dysphoria is not required but if they can't believe in a feeling then how can they hope to believe in their maker? Their behavior is not becoming of their believes. Their wrath against you is a cardinal sin and if they persist they will go to the very place that they are misguidedly trying to keep you from going or so they claim. I'm not sure how to put that in a less aggressive tone that won't put them on the defensive but it probably doesn't matter anyways. Whatever you say to them is going to fall on deaf ears. Sorry if I sound so jaded but my experience with people like that is that they just use religion to further their own agendas and prejudices. God is not a tool to be wielded like an axe!

The only high road you can take right now is to simply take away their ammunition. Out yourself to everyone and your sisters can't do it for you at the worst possible time. You will at least have some control of how it's done, to keep the offensiveness to a minimum. Also when ever you have these sorts of problems stop and take in all the good around you. Have a romantic evening with your wife and reaffirm your love for each other and stay positive.

Good luck Elizabeth and always remember God loves all of us that believe and accept him without exception.

Natalie

[Guest Donna Jean]

Elizabeth, dear:

I can tell you what I would do if I were you, however:

I would tell your sisters directly how I felt about what they did. I would tell them that I

felf betrayed. I would tell them them they owed me an apology, and until I received it,

I would not speak with them again.

Carolyn Marie

I agree with Carolyn.....

How DARE someone try to bring you closer to God by destroying your life??????

DANG!

Donna Jean

[Guest Naomi Stardust]

they love you?

by definition isn't love a selfless act of acceptance?

they do not sound particularly accepting

'i love you, but you are not who you are'

in that case, who exactly is it that they love?

so gender dysphoria doesn't exist because God didn't personally explain it to them?

to me this type of reasoning has always seemed rooted in a lack of faith

um... advice...?

do not ignore them

but pretend the outing didn't happen

be nice

let them bring the subject up if they should want to

show them that you are unaffected and unconcerned by it

and that their actions didn't change anything

and will not change anything

when the do bring it up again

turn it around on them

tell them it is unfortunate that they have lost sight of God

but that you forgive them and still accept them and you will be praying for them

everyone has their own unique perspective

we all see the world a little differently through that tint

but sometimes it seems that that tinting is too dark

making it so some people can not see the world around them, only a distorted reflection of themselves

ask them how someone so disconnected from the world God made

can claim to be closer to God than someone who embraces the miracle of life in all of it's oddity and wonder

for what it's worth

thats my advice

i do not know if it is good advice or not

but the (((huuuuuggggs))) are definitely good!

good luck

let me know how things go

love (not dependent on you matching my expectations) and more hugs

Naomi

p.s.

and if all that doesn't work

just explain to them how you are half Wiccan

and invite them to a naked moonlight dance in praise of The Goddess

[Guest NatalieRene]

I agree with Carolyn.....

How DARE someone try to bring you closer to God by destroying your life??????

DANG!

Donna Jean

I doubt they where trying to bring anyone closer to God with that act. They where doing yet another despicable act in God's name so they won't have to face the consequences for their actions. I equate them to wolves in sheep's clothing. The worst part is that they are family. The betrayal wold cut me down to the bone if it was me.

[Guest Evan_J]

(I'm kinda likin that Natalie Renee...anyway.....)

I think a sort of "combo" of the advice given is in order. I would get both sisters together, either on the phone or skype or whatever. And let both of them know how you feel and why. You can utilize a lot of what was said here if you want cuz it was excellent. Even tell them your stance spiritually. LET THEM KNOW YOU REALIZE THAT THEY ARE NOT ACCEPTING WHAT YOU SAY EVEN AS YOU SAY IT. (Cuz they will not be, but for the sake of the record you said it) Then let both of them know that in light of their choices to attempt to be destructive in thier actions, not cuz of their beliefs, you do not expect to find either of them in the periphery of your life. Tell them you love them. Tell them goodbye. Tell them you are giving them the courtesy of making them aware that they are no longer welcome in your life, your home, nor your affairs and that any hostile actions from either of them will be reacted to the same way you would with any stranger.

And no, I would not be above suing either of them if they outed me professionally. (Honestly? If it was me, I probably would check with a lawyer and find out if there was a document they could both be served with to that affect so that they could both be unquestioningly assured I was freaking serious.)

<--mean, and sick of taking &*^% off of ANYone

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Dearest Lizzy,

I had to wait a while before I could respond to your post because I was so filled with rage.

It saddens me to see this time and time again where family members think that they are saving you from yourself when, in reality, you are saving yourself by being yourself. So many people do not understand that.

They are acting as if you are a drug addict and need an intervention. Nothing could be farther from the truth. You have intervened. You are seeing a therapist and you are taking real positive steps to realize your true self. I wish your family could see that.

If they love you and know you, they should see how much happier you are now than you were "before". Clearly, they do not see you.

I know that you have talked to them before about how important it is for you to decide when, how, and to whom you come out to. Out of respect of you they should have honored that request.

I am sure that you have expressed your dissappointment, hurt, anger, sadness, and insult that they have done this to you.

Regardless of religious motivations, they are not honoring the person you are.

I would suggest that they are educated as to what being transgendered means, and how necessary it is for you to transition. They need to understand that this is not a phase and it will not go away. In order for you to survive you must transition.. period. You are not transgendered to hurt them, to scare them, to show that you don't love them. On the contrary. You are transgendered because that is who you are. You love your family, and you can no longer live the lie. You must be yourself, and if they love you, they must accept you.

If they do not accept you, then I doubt how deeply they really love you. Do they only love you if you conform to their idea of reality, or do they love you for you?

You are at a stage in your life where this attitude towards you cannot and will not be tolerated.

If they cannot accept you, they better at least respect you.

If they cannot respect you, then tell them good bye.

Love and Respect... Always,

Brenda

[Guest again]

Hi Lizzy,

So sorry to hear about this. I completely agree with Carolyn and Evan on this one---your sisters are you doing you more damage than good--if you feel able, you should cut off contact with them & Evan's advice about a lawyer's letter would probably scare them enough that they will keep your private matters private in the future.

[Guest Jean Davis]

Hi Lizzy

Sounds like your sisters successfully started a wedge between you and your wife.

That can not be changed now, so you have to start looking for ways to stop it from progressing.

Here's what I would do .

First, have a good discussion with your wife and see how she feels about what happened and the rest of the family( both sides, yours and hers)

If she is not going to let any of the family influence her that's great.

But that doesn't mean this is over. It's a pretty solid bet that someone's going to keep pounding on that wedge, so that brings us to my next step.

Second, Your going to have to call the families. You call yours and she calls hers, Keep it short and sweet. Tell them that they either support youn or they don't need to contact you any more, no need to dicuss anything unless their responce is positive. If it's negative just hang up the phone (Yes phone, no personal visits), because once you allow them to start expressing their negative views it will give them strength to try doing it again. It's just like splitting wood, you get the wedge started and start pounding, if the wedge moves you pound harder and faster, if the wedge doesn't move you get tired and give up.

Third, stand firm. It's going to be tough on the both of you. But after awhile a few family members will figure out that the two of you are serious and start supporting you, and then a few more, and then finally most of them will. Unfortunately I think you'll always have a couple of family members that will not support you, but as a very wise woman ( Sally ) told me you can't and shouldn't try to please everyone.

As for religion, It's said that we are all made in GOD's image.

Logically speaking then GOD must be both genders in one being and we must be closer to GOD than any other single gender person.

That should get their goat.

Hope this helps

LUV

Jean

[Guest *Elizabeth Anne*]

I am thinking about heavily editing your comments - altering the names - and SENDING THESE TO MY TWO SISTERS!

Is there anyone here who has an objection?

Lizzy

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Liz,

A simple question…

If you feel that a person is seriously endangering themselves in some way what would you do?

Your sisters have a genuine fear that your/their god is going to punish you[their own flesh and blood] for going against what they[your sisters] believe is god’s will…Remember for most of their lives all that they have been taught to believe -you are now going against…They are only doing what they feel is the ‘right’ thing to do…If the table was turned wouldn’t you do all that you could to help ‘save’ them?

“A bigot’s mind is like the pupil of the eye-the more light one shines upon it-the more it will contract!”

You’re not going to change your sisters view point-it’s up to them –if they feel the need to change then they will and no amount of argument on your part will sway them…

Quote…WHAT DO I DO???

Remember …The definition of insanity…”Continuing to do the ‘same’ thing over and over again- and each time hoping for a ‘different’ result!”

Sadly as I’ve mentioned in many posts trans-people who openly attach a god/religion[in any shape or form] to their transsexual nature tend to in a psychological way-[excluding Pagans, Hindus and others where transsexuality and deities are compatable] suffer the most when being confronted by bible bashing bigots in their family and or community…Simply because their argument against your very being, seems to be the general line of thought and has been around for centuries in Abrahamic god-centric societies…I’m just stating a fact…

From a psychological view point-the longer you try to change them[whilst still remaining in the closet] the weaker you will become emotionally…and the only way to stop this from happening is to break all ties with them completely- this is easier said than done I know but sadly a part of life that many trans-people have to come to terms with…Plus the sooner you come ‘out’, the less hold others will have over you…You may feel what they have done[by outing you] is immoral and they feel that what you are doing is immoral…Catch 22… …

However after all my rambling - only you and you alone have the answer that will help satisfy your desire or at least ease some of the stress you are now feeling...Remember it's your life not theirs...I hope you are skilful at weighing up the pros and cons when making your decision...

What seems to be a common saying amongst 'out' trans-people is "Why didn't I do this earlier-it would have saved me from a lot of stress and anxiety!"

BTW Just curious, why isn’t this thread in the Christian section after all the contents is not really ‘general’ it’s more religious based???

Metta Jendar

[Guest NatalieRene]

No objections.

I hope thing work out and your sisters come around.

[Guest jaymie]

It really is sad, how so often it is the people you need most that turn on you. Wouldn't it be great if people could be accepting, supportive and show some respect for you and your life.

[Guest Jean Davis]

I am thinking about heavily editing your comments - altering the names - and SENDING THESE TO MY TWO SISTERS!

Is there anyone here who has an objection?

Lizzy

No objections here.

Go for it!!!!

LUV

Jean

[Guest NatalieRene]

(I'm kinda likin that Natalie Renee...anyway.....)

I think a sort of "combo" of the advice given is in order. I would get both sisters together, either on the phone or skype or whatever. And let both of them know how you feel and why. You can utilize a lot of what was said here if you want cuz it was excellent. Even tell them your stance spiritually. LET THEM KNOW YOU REALIZE THAT THEY ARE NOT ACCEPTING WHAT YOU SAY EVEN AS YOU SAY IT. (Cuz they will not be, but for the sake of the record you said it) Then let both of them know that in light of their choices to attempt to be destructive in thier actions, not cuz of their beliefs, you do not expect to find either of them in the periphery of your life. Tell them you love them. Tell them goodbye. Tell them you are giving them the courtesy of making them aware that they are no longer welcome in your life, your home, nor your affairs and that any hostile actions from either of them will be reacted to the same way you would with any stranger.

And no, I would not be above suing either of them if they outed me professionally. (Honestly? If it was me, I probably would check with a lawyer and find out if there was a document they could both be served with to that affect so that they could both be unquestioningly assured I was freaking serious.)

<--mean, and sick of taking &*^% off of ANYone

I don't know how I missed your post. but the document you are thinking of is a cease and desist letter. If you get one of those letters and you ignore it you're going to have a bad time.

Oh and you're kinda liking me or kinda liking what I said?

[Guest Jackson]

My mother is very Roman Catholic. She asked me, "Are you saying that God makes mistakes?" I knew she'd ask me that. I told her that God does not make mistakes and this may be my cross to bear and my lesson in life to learn, but He also made me in His image. He made me the way I am. So there must be some reason for it.

Actually, I think this experience has made me closer to God. For now I understand and forgive a lot more about myself than I ever had.

[Guest Jean Davis]

If you feel that a person is seriously endangering themselves in some way what would you do?

Your sisters have a genuine fear that your/their god is going to punish you[their own flesh and blood] for going against what they[your sisters] believe is god’s will…Remember for most of their lives all that they have been taught to believe -you are now going against…They are only doing what they feel is the ‘right’ thing to do…If the table was turned wouldn’t you do all that you could to help ‘save’ them?

Sorry Jendar

But I feel that this should have been brought up to Lizzy and her wife. Not her wife's family..

Jean

[Guest *Elizabeth Anne*]

BTW Just curious, why isn’t this thread in the Christian section after all the contents is not really ‘general’ it’s more religious based???

Jendar - yes - good question. When I posted I had no idea of where it would go. I mentioned my sister's religious views, but thought perhaps more people would comment on the morality of assuming they know better how to run my life than I do.

And it wasn't that I was outed - I was about to talk with my s-in-l anyway, but that someone else used that 'outing' as a sort of weapon. I don't know if 'weapon' is a good word, here.

And Jendar, yes I agree, it really hurts if a person is themselves a Fundamental Christian (whatever that is) because the targeting person uses very familiar ammunition against the targeted individual. An athiestic person might laugh at biblical references for example (staying in the Christian mode here). And Jendar, you have seen my postings elsewhere, and know I am certainly NOT traditional Christian, lotta Wicca Paganism in me. BUT growing up in that Funamentalist atmosphere I know the counter argements. They came to save me Memorial Day week, They went home unfullfilled. This outing was their next way to accomplish what they desired - discredit me, have me lose all (my wife and family support) and THEN maybe I would repent! I suppose that is what they hoped? It seems so radical? I am confused on exactly what they DID hope to accomplish.

The s-in-law is EXTREMELY supposrtive of me it turns out. She has been having hints of my gender dysphoria for ten years. That's the irony, my sisters only solidified that empathy.

I am looking for suggestions on how to re-educate my sisters - and I KNOW they won't listen! GOD told them I was an abomination - at least in scripture somehow. BUT - hummmm... is it even worth the effort?

Donno.

I tire of educating those that are just curious - even sort of supporting - because they never seem to get to the point of reading what I buy and send - never go to the sites I cite. Do I want to attempt to reach someone who says (1) transsexuality does not exist. (2) therapists do the devil's work (two of my daughters are therapists!)

And also - they will tell you homosexuality does not exist. And I think I finally got to them that we TS are not homosexual by default, we are just members of the human race - and just like everyone else - some TS are homosexual (like some are Republicans - or Aussies - or Kiwi? grin).

Anyway - off the subject.

BUT WELL SAID! Jendar - thank you!

Elizabeth

[Guest Zenda]

Sorry Jendar

But I feel that this should have been brought up to Lizzy and her wife. Not her wife's family..

Jean

Kia Ora JD,

It's true I totally agree with you...But....

"Desperate times calls for desperate measures!" And Liz's sisters are 'desperate' and what do some desperate people do? they act irrationally...

I'm just looking at both sides of the coin with a 'rational' mind[well at least I hope I'm being rational] ...

Metta Jendar

[Paula ult]

Lizzy, i am sorry this happened to you, i tell those that are religious that i was made in gods image, god made me this way for a reason, one day i will find that reason. I do not think anything you say will change their minds but tell them your and your family's life could be in danger if the wrong people find out and can they live with that and is that what god would have wanted.

Not much has been touched upon your wife's family, their reactions and comments, maybe it is time to talk to them in person if you are close enough and explain what is going on and that talk getting around could be dangerous to you and your wife.

Geez this reminds me of the gossipy woman that i told that was not accepting, i needed to out myself to those that needed to know before she could spread her lies and it did work. I know you were not ready for this yet but if you feel those at work may find out about it you better contact your HR department if you have one and explain what is going on.

I pray the government passes EDNA before i come out at work, even though my HR department said not to worry.

Paula

[Guest Zenda]

BTW Just curious, why isn’t this thread in the Christian section after all the contents is not really ‘general’ it’s more religious based???

Jendar - yes - good question. When I posted I had no idea of where it would go. I mentioned my sister's religious views, but thought perhaps more people would comment on the morality of assuming they know better how to run my life than I do.

And it wasn't that I was outed - I was about to talk with my s-in-l anyway, but that someone else used that 'outing' as a sort of weapon. I don't know if 'weapon' is a good word, here.

And Jendar, yes I agree, it really hurts if a person is themselves a Fundamental Christian (whatever that is) because the targeting person uses very familiar ammunition against the targeted individual. An athiestic person might laugh at biblical references for example (staying in the Christian mode here). And Jendar, you have seen my postings elsewhere, and know I am certainly NOT traditional Christian, lotta Wicca Paganism in me. BUT growing up in that Funamentalist atmosphere I know the counter argements. They came to save me Memorial Day week, They went home unfullfilled. This outing was their next way to accomplish what they desired - discredit me, have me lose all (my wife and family support) and THEN maybe I would repent! I suppose that is what they hoped? It seems so radical? I am confused on exactly what they DID hope to accomplish.

The s-in-law is EXTREMELY supposrtive of me it turns out. She has been having hints of my gender dysphoria for ten years. That's the irony, my sisters only solidified that empathy.

I am looking for suggestions on how to re-educate my sisters - and I KNOW they won't listen! GOD told them I was an abomination - at least in scripture somehow. BUT - hummmm... is it even worth the effort?

Donno.

I tire of educating those that are just curious - even sort of supporting - because they never seem to get to the point of reading what I buy and send - never go to the sites I cite. Do I want to attempt to reach someone who says (1) transsexuality does not exist. (2) therapists do the devil's work (two of my daughters are therapists!)

And also - they will tell you homosexuality does not exist. And I think I finally got to them that we TS are not homosexual by default, we are just members of the human race - and just like everyone else - some TS are homosexual (like some are Republicans - or Aussies - or Kiwi? grin).

Anyway - off the subject.

BUT WELL SAID! Jendar - thank you!

Elizabeth

Kia Ora and you're welcome Liz...

Remember this analogy "A bigot's mind is like the pupil of the eye-the more light one shines upon it-the more it will contract!" If you keep this in mind it will save you from wasting your time and energy on those whose opinions are somewhat steadfast...I don't mean that one shouldn't try-but one should know when 'enough is enough' time to stop

I'm sure you will work out what's best for you...

Metta Jendar

[Carolyn Marie]

I am thinking about heavily editing your comments - altering the names - and SENDING THESE TO MY TWO SISTERS!

Is there anyone here who has an objection?

Lizzy

Not me. Fire away, Lizzy!

Carolyn Marie