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Not Being Allowed To Transition At Work?


Guest Isabella

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Guest Isabella

I've in been in transition & on HRT & Spiro for 7yrs, & have tried in vain for 5yrs to transition at work(two union jobs) Yeah transitioning in general is uphill all the way & full tough choices & sacrifice, no problem. I read of all kinds personal hardships here & can personally identify with many more than I would like. My heart goes out all of you & truely wish you all the best! I've been able to get through everything on my own without too many battle scares & don't feel the need to complain. When I go to work, I go there to work not complain. Of all the usual hardships & others, not being able to transition at work is the is one thing that truely gets under my skin. My God! Am I the only who finds this absolutely unacceptable?

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Guest ~Brenda~

Sweetheart,

I am not clear as to why you say that your are not allowed to come out at work. I completely understand if you feel uncomfortable in doing that. I guess that I am asking if it is strictly forbidden where you work. Is it in writing? Is the general attitude where you work clear that anyone who comes out will be harassed? I do not know completely your situation, but it sounds like you work in a potentially hostile environment. I would look into what your rights are as an employee in your state before coming out.

Brenda

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Guest Evan_J

I just don't understand how you can "not allow" someone to transition at work. If they change their name its changed legally. What are you going to do? Ignore a court order? If the gender marker is changed, same question. If they grow breasts what are you going to do? Ask them to ungrow them? What I'm getting at is , I very much could imagine a company "not wanting it to happen" and denying the person this and that that they're entitled to but at a certain point if those physical attributes just "are" and the documents support that the person legally has "x" status then all you're describing is a company ready to be sued for sex discrimination (and I would go that route as opposed to trans discrimination cuz you may not have the protection in your state. This is of course if you legally obtain or can obtain the status.) or am I missing something?

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Guest Isabella

Uncomfortable? Nothing about transtioning is comfortable, comfort was never an option other accepting myself for who I am. I got list a list of the legal/company policy/state rights/personal rights/federal law/eeoc/oasha/union/if I left a stoned unturned than it's a small one. What I find truely disturbing is how many of us just accept this as no big deal. I dissagre with all my heart!

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Guest Isabella
I just don't understand how you can "not allow" someone to transition at work. If they change their name its changed legally. What are you going to do? Ignore a court order? If the gender marker is changed, same question. If they grow breasts what are you going to do? Ask them to ungrow them? What I'm getting at is , I very much could imagine a company "not wanting it to happen" and denying the person this and that that they're entitled to but at a certain point if those physical attributes just "are" and the documents support that the person legally has "x" status then all you're describing is a company ready to be sued for sex discrimination (and I would go that route as opposed to trans discrimination cuz you may not have the protection in your state. This is of course if you legally obtain or can obtain the status.) or am I missing something?

Yes, I have legally changed my name & changed all my id's & legal docs to my new name. Yes I tried to get my gender marker changed on all of the previously mentioned(3x on my dvrls alone!), but without medical documentation it is not allowed in my state Nv.

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Guest ~Brenda~

Sweetheart,

As my dear friend Lizzy says so aptly "being a transsexual is hard". I know the discomfort of being trans. I have to live with it every day, like you, like everyone. In my work situation, everyone assumes that I am gay. They clearly see my femininity, but since I am not a fully transitioned woman, they can only attribute to me what they understand. I also, understand them, and why they feel that way.

I did not mean to make you feel defensive sweetheart. I was trying to help. So many of us work in hostile environments regardless of the law and company policy. No big deal? None of us said that it was no big deal!! We all have to do what we must to balance who we are with our workplace. Where I work is a fully transitioned transwoman! I wish I had her courage. She is totally accepted and respected where I work. She transitioned while at my company. So, many people knew her before. Eventhough I know that I work in a place that is basically supportive of trans people, I still am not ready to completely come out to everyone at work. Until I am ready, I accept their assesment that I am gay. It makes them comfortable, and at the same time, allows me to express my femininity at work.

I do so hope this helps hon

Brenda

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Guest Isabella
Sweetheart,

As my dear friend Lizzy says so aptly "being a transsexual is hard". I know the discomfort of being trans. I have to live with it every day, like you, like everyone. In my work situation, everyone assumes that I am gay. They clearly see my femininity, but since I am not a fully transitioned woman, they can only attribute to me what they understand. I also, understand them, and why they feel that way.

I did not mean to make you feel defensive sweetheart. I was trying to help. So many of us work in hostile environments regardless of the law and company policy. No big deal? None of us said that it was no big deal!! We all have to do what we must to balance who we are with our workplace. Where I work is a fully transitioned transwoman! I wish I had her courage. She is totally accepted and respected where I work. She transitioned while at my company. So, many people knew her before. Eventhough I know that I work in a place that is basically supportive of trans people, I still am not ready to completely come out to everyone at work. Until I am ready, I accept their assesment that I am gay. It makes them comfortable, and at the same time, allows me to express my femininity at work.

I do so hope this helps hon

Brenda

You did not make me feel defensive & I apologize for that impression. However, the rest of your post that I am qouting here is exactly what's rubbing me raw! I have no desire to force any one to accept me for me, I just want to have the same rights, nothing more, nothing less. Again I repeat, I just cannot belive how willing we seem to accept not being allowed to transition at work.

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Guest NatalieRene
You did not make me feel defensive & I apologize for that impression. However, the rest of your post that I am qouting here is exactly what's rubbing me raw! I have no desire to force any one to accept me for me, I just want to have the same rights, nothing more, nothing less. Again I repeat, I just cannot belive how willing we seem to accept not being allowed to transition at work.

The problem is we all need to make a living or very quickly we can get into financial trouble. So the phrase "don't rock the boat" is unfortunately a very real compromise for a lot of people. It's like a silver or lead kind of deal.

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Real Life Decisons are tougher than postulating here on the forum..you're right money counts and you know what you never get enough to feel comfortable..so work is never an option...It is a neccesity...Keep your head right where it is your doing fine........

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Guest Isabella

If each one of us were to make war with our employer over this issue we would accomplish very little. I am however disenheartned by how readily we accept this. I've gone through the pain of accepting myself & then comimg out to my family, as have many of you who have or are in the middle of. How ever as tramatizing as that is, we just seem to not even give a second thought about our potential right & here in the lack there of transitioning at work, even if it is just a job.

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Guest krisspykriss
If each one of us were to make war with our employer over this issue we would accomplish very little. I am however disenheartned by how readily we accept this. I've gone through the pain of accepting myself & then comimg out to my family, as have many of you who have or are in the middle of. How ever as tramatizing as that is, we just seem to not even give a second thought about our potential right & here in the lack there of transitioning at work, even if it is just a job.

Honey I feel for you. I have been evicted, disowned, worked in a hostile work environment and forced to quit a job for being trans. With all of them I knew exactly why, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I being treat poorly. Indiana has laws similar to NV. I am thinking about going back to work at Amazon.com just because they have a trans friendly company policy. Then again since employers seem in general to be against hiring people like us, maybe I should just go back to school and get the Indiana taxpayers to foot the bill.

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Guest Evan_J
Then again since employers seem in general to be against hiring people like us, maybe I should just go back to school and get the Indiana taxpayers to foot the bill.
;)

smart woman

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Guest *Elizabeth Anne*

Like it is a choice! I tried, my employer 'documented' false work ethics and booted me out. It was blatant discrimination and they forced all their employees to sign non-disclosure documents or get fired themselves, one left over that.

In this market I looked for work for 100 days. I was hired but in male mode. I cannot risk transitioning again, it cost me my 401k money to survive. My wife said she will kill me if I try again, my therapist said not to try and she would give me credit for living full time anyway. And I have a post op friend who is in HR at a university, She said not to fight in in our State, that unless you are able to change your gender markers it is almost impossible to win, and here it takes a court order and proof of SRS to change your gender marker. She knows because at her previous job she fought in courts for 11 years and finally had to settle for medical beefits only. They refused to rehire her.

So like Brenda, I present as a married homosexual. It's easier and I have better protection under the law.

Ironic!

Lizzy

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Guest Sofiadragon

I have worked two union jobs in the past & from what I have gathered they are some of the most hipocratical people out there, I was @ a union job when I hurt my back & they would ask me the same questions about every other week when it came to my back & then they would try & Say that I was changing my story so my best peice of advice is that you need to find another place to work. :o:mellow:<_<

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Guest Donna Jean
I have no desire to force any one to accept me for me, I just want to have the same rights, nothing more, nothing less. Again I repeat, I just cannot belive how willing we seem to accept not being allowed to transition at work.

Honey....I agree 100% that I want the same rights and nothing more...,..

But that's not here yet.....

But I'm in the same situation as Brenda and Lizzy......at work they think that I'm somehow gay, yet married to a woman...So be it.....

Gays are far more accepted in the workplace and have far more rights then the Transsexual folks (me included)...

Transition at work? Lizzy lost her job over it...

Are we willing to lose our livelyhood over principles? Don't we sidestep our principles everyday to make life easier to handle?

Why lose my job (which I do as male) and not have the money for hormones, electrolysis, etc....?

I want my transition!

My principles say "The heck with them I'll transition at work!"

I lose my job.......

Who comes out better for that? Certainly not me.....

I'll "Go with the flow" and come out the winner.......

Good luck......

Donna Jean

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Guest AllisonD

Carolyn has a thread about trans-accepting companies http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/in...ost&p=70445

There are trans-accepting places to work.

I have become aware, you all have taught me, that it is possible for a person to repress, and deal, and switch between, and otherwise manage being trans in ways that are beyond my comprehension. So OK, I get that so many here are far stronger and more resilient than I ever was. My path was clear, I followed it, and dealt with it early enough that I never had to contend with the monumental difficulties now facing members of our community.

But even so, this is not a choice, even for you tougher people that have put up with so much and struggled so hard. For me, I had to do it, so I did, and that was all there was to it. Including transitioning at work. There was no choice.

It is clear the pain that you all feel for being thwarted repeatedly in following what you know for certain is your path. And you have courage that is beyond my capability to even imagine, to have put up with fighting these feelings for so long. And having finally admitted to yourself that this is your path, the supreme effort it takes to manage so carefully how you navigate it.

So take your incredible courage and use it to change your location and your employment to someplace more trans accepting, and continue your path there. There are locations and employers that make this much easier. If you have the self control and will power to deny your true identity to yourself and your families for decades, and then when your bell goes off you can actually control how you behave to such an extent that you can literally govern your progress so carefully, juggling so many considerations, as well as the therapists and hormones and finances and ... you are VERY POWERFUL people!

I am forced to admire you all so much. What you have to deal with, and you are no longer the invincible carefree 16 that I was when I did the hardest part. As far as I can see, every single one of you can do anything you set your mind to, except to continue to deny your true path. So make it a little easier on yourself and relocate to a better environment. Sure, the economy sucks right now, but compared to the other challenges that you have all faced, and successfully managed, this has got to be one of the smaller considerations. Move. And continue to follow the path that you are driven to follow.

Allison

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Guest Isabella

Thank you all so much for taking the time to share your personal experiences, thoughts, & insight, that really means a lot! Allison, thank you for the link, ironicly I read & posted on that thread just before I started this one! My frustration stems from my inability/turned into stubborn refusal to live a double life. I slowly became more & more unstable, eventually coming completely unhinged & presenting myself as a serious threat to myself & others. I won't mention the things I've done as I beleive it would be inappropriate here. Again thank you all so much! much love, Isabella

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Guest Chloe the other one

I thought that only the military could discriminate against us. Actually I know for a fact that the DEA and FBI are tollerant to us and even the transisition. I talked to a agent a few months ago who said she recommends it.

At work military. My coworkers just figure I am strange for shaving my legs and body hair, I just tell them when they ask that I cant stand hair. and leave it at that.

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Guest krisspykriss
I thought that only the military could discriminate against us. Actually I know for a fact that the DEA and FBI are tollerant to us and even the transisition. I talked to a agent a few months ago who said she recommends it.

At work military. My coworkers just figure I am strange for shaving my legs and body hair, I just tell them when they ask that I cant stand hair. and leave it at that.

I done the same thing when I was in the Navy.

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Guest Joanna Phipps
Uncomfortable? Nothing about transtioning is comfortable, comfort was never an option other accepting myself for who I am. I got list a list of the legal/company policy/state rights/personal rights/federal law/eeoc/oasha/union/if I left a stoned unturned than it's a small one. What I find truely disturbing is how many of us just accept this as no big deal. I dissagre with all my heart!

For me transitioning at work was no big deal, i put out feelers to the management about GID and how they felt shortly after my diagnosis. It was only after I got positive responses to my feelers that I decided to tell them a little more and ask how this thing would look. We talked about it and then it was decided that as long as what I wore fit the company dress code there wasnt much they could do about it. This was the one time where my carry letter was used, it was the final confirmation for the owner of the hotel I work at.

You have to remember that New mexico has some pretty good antidiscrimination and hate crime laws, the last thing (i think) they wanted was for me to take them to the state and federal EEOC people on a gender identity discrimination charge. Even though I have not yet legally changed my name, I use Joanna where I can and only use my old name for payroll and legal purposes.

The other side of this is that there are some for whom transitioning at work carries too much cost. They maybe in a truly male dominated field, and as such it might be nigh on impossible for a woman to have the kind of resume that they have, there may be, and probably are, thousands of other reasons why people dont transition at work. In your case was it told directly to you that there would be sever consequences if you transitioned at work? If this is the case then try to get it in writing from someone in authority this might be as easily done as a quick email giving a general case and asking what if any consequences might befall such a person.

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Guest Jeannine Bean
If each one of us were to make war with our employer over this issue we would accomplish very little. I am however disenheartned by how readily we accept this. I've gone through the pain of accepting myself & then comimg out to my family, as have many of you who have or are in the middle of. How ever as tramatizing as that is, we just seem to not even give a second thought about our potential right & here in the lack there of transitioning at work, even if it is just a job.

Is this job what you really want to do? I mean, how much leeway do you have on all this? I know what it is to keep a job. But how many other things can you do? What other options might you have? Could you work to get another job while keeping the one you have or are you doing 10 hour days five days a week right now?

Also, would it be really satisfying to you to take some classes or something at night... I don't think any university in America would hassle you officially (the redneck students might be another story) for being trans or any other shade of queer... you could be as out in as many ways as you could imagine. How would that feel? And it might give you more options too....

Just some thoughts.

--Jeannine

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Yes, where i live in North Carolina

I'll bet there isn't 50 people like me in the state!

I was told yesterday not to even mention I take Hormones...

So, it IS acceptable to me to be in a Stealth mode.

I'm sorry you can't Transition at work...

I'd "grin and bear it"

Having a Job is very hard these days, and more and more I find people are

very set into Gender Ideas in this country, and I'm not fighting with them!

My Advice would be to just deal.

I know this sounds terrible, and it is bothering you on a Emotional

level.

Self Acceptance is getting me ALOT of break throughs and mileage these days.

I'd just accept People don't understand the situation

(my real thoughts are much more "explicit" but i'm trying to be positive and not spread around my misery or disappointments!) :P

Caitlin

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would urge you to channel the frustration with your personal situation to work and advocate for social/legal change. I became involved with Basic Rights Oregon which is the main organization for legal/social change for GLBT folks in this state. We have been successful in the past few years to introduce and pass new laws that protect GLBT folks---yes, transsexual/transgendered folks in the workplace. We now cannot be discriminated against based upon our gender identity.

While my own workplace is accepting and supportive of me as a transgendered person that does not always include all of my co-workers. I requested and was given permission to contract with an organization to bring in a GLBT work-place consultant to provide sensitivity/awareness training for the entire staff. You know what is a real hoot? The primary offender on our staff is a very masculine appearing woman!!!!

ricka

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Meant to say and forgot that each of you who struggle and fight for acceptance as transgendered/transsexual people in the workplace and elsewhere are heroines/heroes!!!! Oh! My! I love a girl with guts!!!!

I am lucky to have as my supervisor at work a really "gutsy broad" who loves and accepts me and has inspired me to stand up for myself.

ricka

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Meant to say and forgot that each of you who struggle and fight for acceptance as transgendered/transsexual people in the workplace and elsewhere are heroines/heroes!!!! Oh! My! I love a girl with guts!!!!

I am lucky to have as my supervisor at work a really "gutsy broad" who loves and accepts me and has inspired me to stand up for myself.

ricka

Me too. If I wanted to I would have the guts but.. transitioning at work is no big deal to me. I only out myself to fellow travelers....and to hades with the rest of the world.....

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      I haven't been posting much, it's been a bit of a whirlwind: My wife took a job in WA State, meaning we're moving halfway across the country by the end of the Summer. I was told "it would be good if you had a new job by the end of the month", meaning I'm getting laid off at the same time. My eldest snuck booze while we were at our friends' house, had a bad interaction with his anti-depressants, and then had the huevos to lie that he wasn't drunk while accusing us of not trusting him. There's been a lot to process lately.   That said, I got called ma'am for the first time today while out. Twice! I can't stop thinking about it. Later, my dad showed up without plan to watch the Liverpool match and I was way more girled up (see ma'am) than he's ever seen me; hair, makeup, tight top, skinny jeans, and brand new sandals. At one point he pointed at my boob and asked, "is that 'enhancement'?". If you call a t-shirt bra enhancement, I guess? "Nope, that's just me!". Later, my boss came at me all passive-aggressive via chat after hours, too. I'm kind of tired with his -crap-. I won't have a job in two weeks, so it's cool to just assume I'm sabotaging things? K. /eyeroll   It's been an interesting day.
    • Sally Stone
      Post 12   “First Kiss”   It was October 29th, 2003.  My dear friend Willa had purchased tickets for the two of us to attend “Red Hot Halloween,” a public Halloween party held at the Sanctuary in downtown Pittsburgh.  The event was a fund raiser benefitting the Pittsburgh AIDS Task Force.  It was a great cause but it was also the perfect opportunity to let the adventurous side of my feminine persona have a little fun.    My first question to Willa was: “What should I wear?”    “Are you kidding?” She responded.  “This is your opportunity to be the Sally of your dreams.  I suggest you dress to impress.”   My first thought was to dress naughty.  It was Halloween, so it could be the perfect venue for something with an erotic edge to it.  I thought about going as a dominatrix or a naughty French maid.  After we talked about it, and weighed the pros and cons, Willa and I decided against naughty, and instead, chose to wear the fanciest evening gowns we could find.  Willa bought an expensive, silver sequined gown, and matching high-heels just for the event.  Me, on the other hand, I couldn’t justify spending big bucks on an evening gown for a single event, so I took a less expensive route.  It is amazing what you can find on the sale racks at big department stores when you look hard enough.  For a mere 30-dollars, I found a black, sleeveless column gown with matching bolero jacket.  The dress had a slit up the right leg, and it went all the way to my upper thigh, very sexy.  Being a column dress, it was form-fitting, and hugged my curves like a glove.  To complement my dress, I wore black patent high-heel pumps, a long blonde wig, and a set of long red fingernails.  As I recall, it took me three-hours just to do my makeup.  The end result, though, was worth the effort, because I felt like a million bucks.  It’s so obvious, why girls love dressing up – it’s an unbelievable high!   Inside the club it was a sea of bodies and the costumes were amazing.  At one point, I was standing on a balcony that overlooked the dance floor.  I was nursing a cocktail and watching the crowd.  Suddenly, there was a gentleman standing next to me; I didn’t notice his approach.  He told me I looked fabulous and he offered to buy me another drink.  I declined his drink offer, but we struck up a conversation.  Being a little slow, it took me a while to realize he was hitting on me. I never imagined anyone would ever actually be attracted to Sally, which I think contributed to my cluelessness.  So, I was shocked, and initially, a little creeped out as well.  After all, I wasn't into guys, and this was new to me.  As we continued talking, and he kept throwing accolades my way, I went from being uncomfortable to actually being flattered.    The event, being an AIDS fund raiser, had me assuming this guy was hitting on me because he was gay, and he thought I was, as well.  I wanted to set the record straight, so I casually mentioned that I wasn’t gay.  To my amazement, he responded by saying: “neither am I.”  Okay, now what was I supposed to do?  I didn’t want to be rude, but I didn’t want to send the wrong message either.  While I was trying to decide how to tell him I wasn’t interested, he asked if he could kiss me.  Not sure what I was thinking at that moment, I said “okay.”  He kissed me, and as strange as it was, I gave into it, not pulling away or disengaging.  It wasn’t a super passionate kiss, but it was more than a friendly peck on the lips, and I actually enjoyed it.  When we separated; however, I got the sense his passion had cooled.  I could only assume that my response to his kiss sent some kind of message that I wasn’t interested.    Whatever it was he picked up on, it let me off the hook, and I didn’t have to rebuff any further advances.  For this I was grateful, but at the same time, I was actually a little disappointed.  Clearly, I wasn’t going to lead him on, but it was so gratifying to know I had sparked his interest.  Despite his diminished passion, and his obvious realization I wasn’t going to be his girl, he remained the perfect gentleman.  We chatted for a few minutes more, then he gave me the nicest smile.  Again, he commented on how terrific I looked.  Then he added, “maybe I’ll see you later.”    It was hard for me to reconcile how I could have garnered the attention of a man.  In my mind’s eye, I knew my feminine presentation didn’t completely mask my birth sex, so why would a self-proclaimed straight guy actually be interested in me?  Had it been the only time something like this would happen, I would have chalked it up to random chance.  But it wouldn’t be the last time a man would hit on me.  It doesn’t happen often, but it still occurs more than I would have guessed, and I'm always surprised.    I have never asked, but I have always been curious to know my would-be suitor’s motivations.  Were they hitting on me simply because they happened to be fond of trans women, or was their attraction triggered by connecting with my inner woman?  And, however unlikely, did they mistake me for a cis woman?  I guess it really doesn’t matter much one way or the other, because ultimately, I’m not looking for any kind of a relationship.  However, I’d be fibbing if I said I wasn’t at least a little interested in another opportunity to get kissed.   Hugs,   Sally
    • Ivy
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