Is It A Disorder?

[Guest praisedbeherhooves]

There's a lot of controversy in the transgender community over whether transsexuality is a disease. Personally, I think it is. Somehow I ended up with a vagina. Somewhere something went horribly, horribly wrong. I think transsexuality is an intersex condition like Klinefelter's or androgen insensitivity disorder. Additionally, if we don't call transsexuality a disorder we will have no hope of ever getting insurance to pay for sex change operations. What do you guys think?

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

There's a lot of controversy in the transgender community over whether transsexuality is a disease. Personally, I think it is. Somehow I ended up with a vagina. Somewhere something went horribly, horribly wrong. I think transsexuality is an intersex condition like Klinefelter's or androgen insensitivity disorder. Additionally, if we don't call transsexuality a disorder we will have no hope of ever getting insurance to pay for sex change operations. What do you guys think?

To my mind it is no more a disease than cleft pallet or club foot is, both are birth defects. What we have, according to current research, is caused by either a chromasomal problem or a hormonal mess up. Neither of which can be cured the way MOST people think you can cure diseases. I dont think you will see me ,refering to how our problems are handled as treatment, I prefer to call it management. I take exception to your statement about getting it covered by insurance, after all if it gets known as a birth defect they will cover it as well.

[Guest CharlieRose]

Hmmm... Perhaps not a disease or a disorder, that's how it's been referred to by mental health professionals who thought the disease was that we were boys and girls who thought that we were girls and boys, not that we were girls and boys in the wrong body.

I usually call it a condition, and am positive it's a type of intersex condition. Once that gets proven we should hopefully be able to get covered by health insurance.

[Guest AllisonD]

Hmmm... Perhaps not a disease or a disorder, that's how it's been referred to by mental health professionals who thought the disease was that we were boys and girls who thought that we were girls and boys, not that we were girls and boys in the wrong body.

I usually call it a condition, and am positive it's a type of intersex condition. Once that gets proven we should hopefully be able to get covered by health insurance.

I certainly cannot explain why I am the way I am, but I do suspect that you are correct. And a 'condition' works for me, although I tend to run counter to what appears to be popular sentiment. To me, it is a gift. A most difficult, but wonderful gift. Without it, I am sure I would not have had nearly as much fun as I have had (nor as much pain either, of course).

Allison

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I certainly cannot explain why I am the way I am, but I do suspect that you are correct. And a 'condition' works for me, although I tend to run counter to what appears to be popular sentiment. To me, it is a gift. A most difficult, but wonderful gift. Without it, I am sure I would not have had nearly as much fun as I have had (nor as much pain either, of course).

Allison

I also call it a condition. At this point we cannot get transsexuality classified as a medical condition, and we certainly hate the idea of it bing classified as a mental condition. It isn't a disease. A club foot is not a disease.

And Allison? She has a great overview, but to many of us, our condition is very debilitating.

But I agree - me + transsexual condition = life X 100

We will find hell familiar, and will be bored with heaven.

grin

Lizzy

[Guest AshleyRF]

Physical condition not mental. My brain is perfectly fine, it's the body I never wanted.

[Guest N. Jane]

More and more research is indicating that gender is biologically determined during gestation by hormonal effects on the foetal brain. Sex (genitals) are also formed by hormonal effects but at a different point in the development. For this reason, when dealing with Intersexed infants (who's physical variations are clear indications of unusual hormonal activity during pregnancy) more and more effort is being focused on trying to determine (guess) the results of the hormonal effects on the brain as to whether the infant will develop with a male or female gender.

I think that eventually it will be found that transsexualism has the same root even if there is no apparent physical variation.

[Carolyn Marie]

Definitely not a disease. That has the connotation of something that needs to be cured.

Condition is a better word. Conditions can be lived with, even embraced. People live happily with

all kinds of different conditions.

The GLBT community must never allow the word disease to be used to describe us, because that will

only encourage peeps to assume we can be "cured."

Carolyn Marie

[Guest AllisonD]

I have to admit, I wouldn't want to be 'cured'. I would make a really poor example of a man, even if I wasn't such a femme. Not that being male is a bad thing, nothing is further from the truth and I know it, but it definitely has never been for me. Just the thought. Ew. Definitely never was the path for me.

Allison

[Guest Jean Davis]

I would have to agree with Allison, it gave me an understanding about both sides that I would not have had.

Though I still can't understand the whole point of watching sports. Guess it's just a girl thing

And as far as insurance goes, I don't care what they call it if they cover it.

LUV

Jean

[Guest mia 1]

I wouldn't trade the experiences I've had for another 100 yrs. of life.....This is it, you got it..enjoy it,,the pain and the pleasure.....and there is plenty of both....We didn't ask for it..not even nurtured it.....IT IS US

[Sally]

Well I have always said that it is the same sort of condition as the cleft palate and the club foot - we have the means to surgically repair the misshaped parts of our bodies, just like they do but we are not accepted afterwards - they are not accepted before.

So in closing the religious right is so right that they don't even hve to listen to Jesus.

Love everyone - HA!

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Well I have always said that it is the same sort of condition as the cleft palate and the club foot - we have the means to surgically repair the misshaped parts of our bodies, just like they do but we are not accepted afterwards - they are not accepted before.

So in closing the religious right is so right that they don't even hve to listen to Jesus.

Love everyone - HA!

Love ya,

Sally

and if you dont agree with them i guess that makes you left of right or something like that

[Guest N. Jane]

I would have to agree with Allison, it gave me an understanding about both sides that I would not have had.

Somehow I missed that

Boys/men were always 'a different species' that I never really figured out and my odd anatomy didn't help at all. What I did learn was about "male privilege" and social assumptions! That turned me into a fairly militant feminist in my early days, a fighter for women's rights, and that was a good thing, not just for me but for all women. More than one sexist jackass or bigoted employer ended up with their tail in a sling over discrimination (I have my feisty side LOL!)

[Guest angie]

I find it to be birth defect that hopefully one day will be corrected.

For me,transsexuality has been both a curse and a blessing.

It was a curse growing up,by making me get beat by my parents

trying,and succeeding,in supressing my innate gender identity for a lifetime.

It was a curse as an adult with the emotional mess it made of my life.

For never even once,to know what it was to be one gendered and to

be happy being in that gender.For the terrible cost of losing all that

I love.For the loss of a career I worked so hard to be successful at.

But it is a blessing for the wonderous life I have been given getting

to become the woman I always knew I was.For instead of being a

middle age man,and starting to look my age,found the fountain of

youth instead.For the wonder of my changing body and mind.

For the experiences,both good and bad,I wouldn't have had as a cisgender.

For my awakening sexuality.For the joy of daily living I forgot how to live.

For the friends I am making in my reallife.For bringing wonder back into

my life.For getting to experience another and right puberty.

So as you can see,this is both a curse and a blessing, that few of us are granted

the gift of seeing life from both sides of gender and the joy of discovering that gender.

Namaste,

Angelique Michelle

[Sally]

I have been noting for a long time that so many of us tend to look on the side of our condition being a curse - I even had complaints when I used the term Gender Gifted (it never really caught on - I lik eit because it is so positive).

Somewhere back in his long ago (To quote What A Fool Believes) before ratings became more important than people's mental health so long ago that Dr. Phil was still a therapist and not a Jerry Springer clone he dispensed his advice in plain and simple terms with country sayings to help them remember, he talked calmly to his patients and never attacked anyone like he does on a daily basis now - he used the saying, "No matter how thin you make it a pancake still has two sides."

I want to take that and make an analogy.

When I make pancakes sometimes one side looks a lot nicer than the other - I always put the pretty side up and I am very happy while spreading butter and pouring syrup - I know that the other side isn't pretty but I don't have to deal with that while I am enjoying my pancakes.

There are the same two sides to being transgendered - the pretty and the ugly - the good and the bad - the gift and the curse.

I for one am doing my best to focus on the gift - we tend as a group to focus on the curse, let's change that and learn to be happy,

I am Gender Gifted and have learned to deal with being totally alone and still be happy.

Life is what you make of it - heaven and hell are but concepts and we can determine what they really are and which one we choose to live in - I kinda like heaven myself.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest angie]

Hey Sally,

I like your analogy of the pancake,and of choosing heaven over the hell

we could make for ourselves instead.Of learning to live alone and liking it.

Good points pretty lady,

Angie

[Guest AllisonD]

I agree with Angie.

And I like the term Gender Gifted. Consider it stolen for my own use.

That's me, Gender Gifted.

Yup, I like the sound of that. Somehow better than trans, and I was perfectly happy just being trans.

But now, I am Gifted.

Definitely an improvement.

Thanks Sally!

Allison

[Guest Donna Jean]

Hey, Sally.......

I really like the "Pancake" anaolgy.....

Two sides, no matter what.......

I need to learn to live by that better!

Thanks, Sweetheart!

Love

Donna Jean

[Guest Quinn]

Yeah, I definitely think it's a condition. Not a mental one either, a physical one, because like someone else before me said - nothing is wrong with my mind. I mean, okay, maybe I have ADD, heh, but that's about it. I love who I am as a person, I just am not correctly matched up physically.

Honestly, I think a lot about how being trans has helped me as a person. I have no doubt in my mind that it has shaped me into a better, more open minded and more understanding person...and it is certainly helping to shape me into a better man. I've also gotten to talk to and experience some really great people in this community. It's definitely a blessing in disguise, I think. Helps us all become stronger people...and I think it's one of the most caring communities I've ever been a part of. I'm pretty proud, actually.

[Guest gentleman1]

Like others here, I do see transexualism as a disorder per se. It is not a mental disorder but a endocrinological disorder that occurs in utero (?) I favor that theory. And there may be more than one cause....prenatal, perinatal and/or natal medication the mother took during our pregnancies? I don't know for sure. But I do know that the argument of this is no different from a club foot or cleft lip falls flat to the ears of cisgendered people because the "disorder" is obvious, (can be seen with the naked eye) and the tissue being corrected is definately not "healthy" tissue. Cisgendered people see us removing or changing perfectly healthy, properly functioning organs. THIS is the crux of our problem. What they fail to understand is we feel quite strongly that it is the wrong/incorrect organ/tissue and THIS is what causes some of our "mental conditions" ie. stress/ profound depression, anxiety disorders, etc.

How can we word our condition (it IS a condition/disorder) better for cisgendered people to understand us without thinking we are crazy? If we can do this, we might be able to break down more barriers to better understanding of us including within the health community. It is THESE people who need better persuasion and the average lay cisgendered person will better follow along than they are perhaps now. ? - Just my two cents- S.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

How can we word our condition (it IS a condition/disorder) better for cisgendered people to understand us without thinking we are crazy? If we can do this, we might be able to break down more barriers to better understanding of us including within the health community. It is THESE people who need better persuasion and the average lay cisgendered person will better follow along than they are perhaps now. ? - Just my two cents- S.

I doubt any of the cisgendered would object to correcting any of the other chromosomal disorders such as 47xxy and ours really isn't any different. What we need is for the medical community (not just the shrinks and counselors) to step forward and say that the best of current research is showing both a hormonal and genetic link in transsexuality. Those are two concepts which the cisgendered can get their brains around since there are many other conditions that have similar links. Once we can get them part way to understanding the probable causes then we can work on getting them to understand the profound effect which the syndrome(?) causes in the life of a transsexual.

my 0.10

[Guest Laura1977]

I don't like the idea that it's a disease. If that were the case, then it would be a mental disease.

I don't like the idea that it's a defect. I don't want to think of myself as defective.

A condition sounds like a medical condition.

All these terms are aimed toward making the transgendered person feel like there is something wrong with them.

I do like gender gifted.

Remember the two-spirit people of indian lore.

The indians revered them and honored them.

Thus I revere and honor myself, if no-one else will.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

I don't like the idea that it's a disease. If that were the case, then it would be a mental disease.

I don't like the idea that it's a defect. I don't want to think of myself as defective.

A condition sounds like a medical condition.

All these terms are aimed toward making the transgendered person feel like there is something wrong with them.

I do like gender gifted.

Remember the two-spirit people of indian lore.

The indians revered them and honored them.

Thus I revere and honor myself, if no-one else will.

I kind of agree with you but in order to get the cisgendered to some what understand what is happening with us we have to call it something that they will understand, even if we as a community don't use it among ourselves.

As much as I like the term gender gifted, my fear is that it will further cloud the already murky waters. Terms like disorder, condition or better yet syndrome they can understand, syndrome may be the best one yet since it describes a collection of symptoms with no clear cause. Now we just have to rename our gift and get ready to explain it to the world.

The sooner we, as a community, can come up with a name to describe our symptoms to those who aren't,  like us, the sooner we can start getting the rest of the world to understand us and not see us as some form of freak of nature or something equally despicable. We also have a long road changing the mass media who seem to think we are an OK group to trash and malign.

[Guest gentleman1]

Joanna,

I see you are on the same wavelength I am! How did you get there?, lol. Anyway, I like the term "syndrome". I'm going to see what I can come up with........and see if it spreads. Maybe you have some ideas that can convey a neurological intersexed condition which is how I think of it.........? I think I have heard transexualism called "Harry Benjamin syndrome"......have you heard of that? - S.