The World’s Oldest Profession!

[Guest]

Almost 99.9% of my email is transgender related. Even the few cis-gendered letters I get are on transgender issues as they relate to family members, wives, husbands or partners. From my mail prostitution among young people especially is a problem. There are quite a few homeless teens kicked out by homophobic parents who are on the streets. Believe it or not some idealize this life and actually consider the option when they shouldn't because it is a dangerous life. Worse some teen shelters reject transgender teens so many have no choice if they are to survive. What they have to look forward to are pimps that addict them to drugs and beat them. John's have their own form of violence that can even lead to death. None will be able to save for SRS and escape with their saviigs without being robbed. So I disagree that this is not a problem. It's responsible to tell young people here to not consider this life. It isn't glamorous. I wish I could report 1 letter where a prostitute had a happy outcome but I can't. Thise are pretty overwhlming odds.

I do understand that all issues are not only about transgender people but the only people allowed here are transgender members and their families. As you say looking at things from a transgender perspective is normal here.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm seeing this everyday, everywhere, and just had to take it out.

Feel free to express your opinion. We all have issues close to our hearts that get under our skin. I don't think you ranted. Even if you did No apology is necessary. Venting is healthy.

Laura

[Guest Jean Davis]

Shall we take a trip back in time to a point before the goverment and unions worked for the people in american factories.

Lets see here

The hours were long and the pay was very low. Perhaps an acceptable sort of slavery.

The equipment was old and in disrepair, very dangerous, could easily kill or maim a person. Not to different than the idiots that abuse prostitutes.

The chemicals used in processing the product were very hazardous, often containing lead, sulfer, etc. Not too different than the drug use out on the street.

Our first industries here in america sound alot like our modern day prostitution. Until we legalize and govern it properly we will have the same results we have now. Legalizing it is the only option because we already know there is no way of stopping it. History should have taught us that by now.

Jean

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

Now as a parent no way in the world would I want one of my children to take it up, but by me taking the moral high ground and condemning the practice will do nothing to help those who are already involved…

If it remains ‘banned’ then the stigma will also remain and along with this stigma comes the unsympathetic approach by law enforcement officers towards sex workers when they are in danger…At the moment most Western societies are quite negative when it comes to prostitution and prostitutes and to continually criminalise prostitution I feel just ‘dehumanises’ the sex workers even more…

The method of ‘sweeping it under the social carpet’ and pretending it doesn’t exist will not make it go away- history is proof of this…However, if one thinks outside the square and looks at the whole picture instead of taking an emotionally driven ‘self-centered’ moral stance[which seems to be the case for some people] one will see that sex workers are living, breathing, human beings with feelings, just like you and me– and hopefully we’ll all treat them with ‘dignity’.. Many might lack self-respect but just because they lack self-respect does not mean that we should disrespect them too…

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

It’s interesting to see some of the responses, much of which can be liken to the debate regarding transgender rights where both sides argue their points - both feel they have the moral high ground…

One thing this thread as done is to bring this issue out in the open and as I often like to say “It’s better out than in!”

For some reason not many males have participated[perhaps it's because it's in the M2F section], however I did say it was open to all...

A point of interest ‘To prostitute’ is derived from a composition of two Latin words: (preposition) pro and (verb) statuere. A literal translation therefore would be: ‘to expose’, ‘to place up front’.

Metta Jendar

[Guest doodle]

Honesty, and truth are abstract ideas different for each person and group. legalize the sex trade it or not. What no one is thinking of are the women . For me, most of the T-girls are doing this work because many have been pushed out of schools, their homes and can't get a job. Hooking is not like a job. What transferable skill set do these women learn after they are to old to do the sex work. They still can't get a job and are far behind with few options. That is one of the big reasons why I say no.

kelly

[Guest Edu]

It seems, from your replies, that either I completely failed to express what I was trying to say, or you missed my points (most probably the former), so I'll try again:

These were my words:

This is not the problem. This is just a symptom of a far deeper issue.

Frankly, quite a bad choice of words. Of course any form of slavery, such forced prostitution (regardless of what forces it) is a serious problem. But it is the tip of the iceberg: it isn't the whole problem on its own, but a consequence of other problems.

There are quite a few homeless teens kicked out by homophobic parents who are on the streets

Worse some teen shelters reject transgender teens so many have no choice if they are to survive.

What they have to look forward to are pimps that addict them to drugs and beat them.

None will be able to save for SRS and escape with their saviigs without being robbed.

These are (some of) the roots of the issue. Homphobia, discrimination, drugs, robbery: would either legalizing or fighting prostitution itself address any of these? Based on all the empirical evidence at my reach, the answer is an obvious no. That's what I meant that prostitution itself is not the problem. It is just the part of the problem that ends up being known and discussed.

Let me put two hypothetical scenarios as examples:

Example scenario 1: prostitution is entirely eradicated:

Those teens kicked by their homophobic parents will still be on the streets, and still be rejected from shelters. They will be safe from pimps addicting them to drugs and beat them, but they will have no means to survive. They will still be unable to save for SRS, but they won't have to care of being robbed: they got nothing that could be robbed.

Example scenario 2: prostitution is legalized and laws are fully enforced:

This won't change that homophobic parents kick out their children, or that these teens are rejected from shelters just because of being transgender. They might still be forced into prostitution as a last resort; however, if there are reasonable laws and they are properly enforced, pimps wouldn't be so dangerous (drug dealing and physical aggression are a crime on most democratic countries), and their savings would probably be far safer from robbers. Actually, they'd probably get their wages transferred to their bank accounts at the end of the week or month just like any worker on any other profession.

Honestly, if I were forced a choice I'd rather be on scenario 2 than scenario 1. That's why I'd vote for legalization of prostitution. But, I want to insist, if the laws aren't enforced, there is no difference between having them or not, and I have already explained the example in Spain. Of course, I'd prefer if there were no homophobia to begin with; but that's not the topic of the discussion.

Trying to summarize it all: if something were to change about these problems, actions should be focused to the root of the problems (homophobia and discrimination), not just one of the branches (forced prostitution).

Our first industries here in america sound alot like our modern day prostitution. Until we legalize and govern it properly we will have the same results we have now. Legalizing it is the only option because we already know there is no way of stopping it. History should have taught us that by now.

That's the point: legalize and govern it properly. If we know prostitution can't be stopped (it has been tried for many centuries, at no success), then let's focus on what can actually stopped: pimps abuses, precarious work conditions, and so on.

Honesty, and truth are abstract ideas different for each person and group. legalize the sex trade it or not. What no one is thinking of are the women . For me, most of the T-girls are doing this work because many have been pushed out of schools, their homes and can't get a job. Hooking is not like a job. What transferable skill set do these women learn after they are to old to do the sex work. They still can't get a job and are far behind with few options. That is one of the big reasons why I say no.

kelly

I do think of the women. That's why I'd rather vote for legalization and law enforcement than banning: banning prostitution does not prevent it. Regulation is a powerful tool to protect all those women. The problem of people being forced into this work can not be solved by just banning prostitution (or keeping it banned wherever it already is): these T-girls will still be pushed out of schools or their homes, and will still be unable to get a job. In which way does banning prostitution help these girls? Of course prostitution is, for most people, a really bad option; but in the absence of alternatives, it becomes the best option. So, there are two ways to help these people: either make that only option to become better, or provide other options. The former would be achieved by having proper regulation and enforcement on the sex-workers' sector; the later would require to enforce the laws against homophobia and discrimination that most countries already have.

A T-girl being kicked out from home, pushed out of school, and entering into prostitution just to survive is a bad thing. However, if we could at least keep such girl from being forced to take drugs, beaten, or robbed, it would be a less bad thing (still bad, but not as bad as the current situation). If we could prevent that girl being kicked out from home or pushed out of school on the first place, that would be a good thing, and that'd be completely unrelated to the legal status of prostitution.

Regards,

Ethain

[Guest Fwip]

My feelings on prostitution are a lot like my feelings on abortion, gambling, and recreational drug use.

While I don't think these are 'right,' I know that there are some people for whom and some situations in which it is the best choice available. As such, I think we should legalize prostitution. Our morals and common sense can tell us what is 'right' for a given situation without requiring our legislators to craft laws to cover every possible fringe case.

-Fwip

[Guest praisedbeherhooves]

Kia Ora,

This thread is open to all M2Fs, F2Ms & cisgender

A few years ago [along with legalising civil unions] the old Labour government [here in Aotearoa] legalized prostitution, prostitutes now pay tax and are protected under the law…So far so good there not been any increase in the number of prostitutes and things have not gotten out of hand as many conservatives believed would be the case…

It’s a well known fact many transgender girls/women end up as sex workers-for the most part it’s the only kind of work they can get…Many young one because of their feminine nature[mannerisms and behaviour] had been ‘bullied’ out of an education-leaving school without basic work survival skills, plus been kicked out of home by unsympathetic parents whilst some older ones were deemed ‘unemployable’ for the main stream work force…

I know earlier on at the beginning of my transition ‘prostitution’ did cross my mind [even though I’m asexual for me this doesn’t mean that I would not have sex, it just means I have no interest in sex no sexual desires], but fortunately friends took me in put a roof over my head and I was eligible for unemployment benefit…Since then I’ve managed quite well even though I have no full time work, I work part time as an urban pestologist plus I’ve been doing voluntary work…So I can fully understand where some sex workers are coming from…

I’m sure ‘prostitution’ has crossed the minds of some members here-some no doubt have partaken or still partake in the profession…

I neither condemn nor condone prostitution…For many it’s a life line until something better comes along[some do it to earn the money for surgery]- for others it might just be that they are highly sexed and it’s a way to release their sexual desires and get paid for it…It might not be my ‘cup of tea’ but what right do I have to condemn another’s choice of making a living - as long as one is not harming nor forcing something upon others I can’t see any problems with it…But in saying that, sadly it’s certain sections of society who actually ‘force’ many trans-women into prostitution…

If one cares to think outside the square, for the most part we are all ‘prostitutes’ ‘selling our bodies/skills’ to our employers for money-some just ‘go the extra mile’ so to speak…

Personally I don’t feel that a person should be punished for doing something that they are[in many cases] forced by society to do to earn a living ‘survival money’…Plus it’s a ‘supply on demand’ service, where men ‘demand’ it and women ‘supply’ it…Stop the demand[castrate all males ] and the supply will 'dry up'[but where would that leave those trans-women who can’t find work in main stream society???]…

Over the years I’ve voted YES to civil unions YES to legalising Marijuana and YES to legalising prostitution and why did I vote YES…Because I believe in ‘freedom of choice’…When it comes to how an individual should live they life I believe we all should have a choice…After all who am I to judge!!!

When it comes to legalising prostitution in your state/country would you vote YES or NO?

Food for thought…

Metta Jendar

I'm totally for legalizing it to regulate it. If we demand prostitutes get tested for STDs we could lower the risk for HIV being spread.

[Guest JessicaLynn]

Example scenario 1: prostitution is entirely eradicated:

Those teens kicked by their homophobic parents will still be on the streets, and still be rejected from shelters. They will be safe from pimps addicting them to drugs and beat them, but they will have no means to survive. They will still be unable to save for SRS, but they won't have to care of being robbed: they got nothing that could be robbed.

Example scenario 2: prostitution is legalized and laws are fully enforced:

This won't change that homophobic parents kick out their children, or that these teens are rejected from shelters just because of being transgender. They might still be forced into prostitution as a last resort; however, if there are reasonable laws and they are properly enforced, pimps wouldn't be so dangerous (drug dealing and physical aggression are a crime on most democratic countries), and their savings would probably be far safer from robbers. Actually, they'd probably get their wages transferred to their bank accounts at the end of the week or month just like any worker on any other profession.

Forgive me if I am too bold, but allowing teens to be prostitutes???? Geez, I never thought anyone could ever even consider the idea. I mean, first of all, that brings on a completely different set moral issues. Prostitution in of itself is illegal and should remain that way. It is not a "victimless crime" as most people might say. It is a breeding ground for drugs, violence, corruption, and even murder. Dont forget about the STDS. Even if you "regulated" it, you will never get rid of the diseases it causes.

And then to say make it legal, and for TEENS too??? Nooo waayyy. Im sorry but thats completely out of the question.

~~Jessica

[Guest Jean Davis]

Forgive me if I am too bold, but allowing teens to be prostitutes???? Geez, I never thought anyone could ever even consider the idea. I mean, first of all, that brings on a completely different set moral issues. Prostitution in of itself is illegal and should remain that way. It is not a "victimless crime" as most people might say. It is a breeding ground for drugs, violence, corruption, and even murder. Dont forget about the STDS. Even if you "regulated" it, you will never get rid of the diseases it causes.

And then to say make it legal, and for TEENS too??? Nooo waayyy. Im sorry but thats completely out of the question.

~~Jessica

Morals vs survival ?

I'll tell you one thing, when your body is hurting and you can barely stand from malnutrition morals go right out the window.

If you can figure out how to give all those people money/ jobs so they can survive I'll be the very first to shake you hand and congradulate you.

The thing that people are forgeting is that it's out there and we just can't say "don't do it " and let them starve.

Most of us think that this is an option for these people, but it's not. For most it's the option of prostitution or death. Homeless shelters and donations only go so far.

Personally I hope that no one would have to take that path but if anyone ever does they find out very quickly that survival trumps all .

And since we can't find a logical option that works to stop it we must go for the only other option available. Leagalize and govern it.

Jean

[Guest]

No country would legalize it for teens that would be pedophillia. I think the writer Ethain is using English as a second language so understanding may not be the same due to cultural and linguistic differences. There are people from many countries here. It's neat that the world is getting smaller . I know I should have paid more attention in my second language class. I admire those who are multi-lingual.

Laura

[Guest Fwip]

As an additional note, 'teens' includes eighteen and nineteen year old people, who are almost universally considered to be at an age of consent.

(And upon looking it up, it seems that this is every country excepting Indonesia (19 minimum for males), and Madagascar (21). Every other country is 18 or lower.)

I don't think that anyone here is arguing that 13 year olds should legally be able to prostitute themselves.

[Guest Jean Davis]

No country would legalize it for teens that would be pedophillia. I think the writer Ethain is using English as a second language so understanding may not be the same due to cultural differences. There are people from many countries here.

Laura

Sorry I didn't want to imply that it should be leagal for teens just adults. I just missed that word, got caught up in the whole debate thing.

Wow, I just love a good debate.

Sorry again

Jean

[Guest cjnoble71]

Who kicked this hornet's nest anyway? It's a doozy to be certain. I think it should be legalized, along with most recreational drugs, and regulated all to hell. Criminalizing these things brings in the criminal element. Keeping them legal, and regulating them will make them safer. Notice I said safer, not safe. Nothing in life is 100% safe, but we should strive to make life as safe as possible for everyone. Criminalization of activities that more or less affect no one but those involved makes society less safe. Drug dealers result to violence to deal with disputes because they cannot resort to courts, so innocents get caught in the crossfire. No one regulates prostitution, or its management, so pimps victimize the workers.

Of course teens should not be prostituting themselves, that is where regulation comes in. As for the financial, housing and other problems of young TG people, we all need to do a better job educating the public about us, and make them realize that neither we, nor their TG children, are monsters that need to be exiled. The more we educate people, the less they will hate. Will we banish all the ill will? Of course not. But we can make a difference. We've seen it slowly happening, with high profile cases of young people transitioning in their teens. Things can, and will, get better.

[Guest Edu]

No country would legalize it for teens that would be pedophillia. I think the writer Ethain is using English as a second language so understanding may not be the same due to cultural and linguistic differences. There are people from many countries here. It's neat that the world is getting smaller . I know I should have paid more attention in my second language class. I admire those who are multi-lingual.

Laura

As an additional note, 'teens' includes eighteen and nineteen year old people, who are almost universally considered to be at an age of consent.

(And upon looking it up, it seems that this is every country excepting Indonesia (19 minimum for males), and Madagascar (21). Every other country is 18 or lower.)

I don't think that anyone here is arguing that 13 year olds should legally be able to prostitute themselves.

Roughly a bit of each... actually, English is my third language, rather than second (I have both Spanish and Catalan as native languages)... despite I consider myself fluent, using English takes significantly more (mental) effort than using a native language. This, added to the complexity of this topic, and my innate ability to just mess things up, easily leads to writing things that are either plain non-sense or simply understood as such.

Clarification: I'm not arguing to legalize prostitution for people under at least 18 on any case (even if the age of consent in some places is lower).

On the other hand, for those who have to choose between that or death from starvation, the choice seems quite obvious, regardless of age. But these cases should already be covered by the laws that protect under-aged children and teens. For example, here in Spain it is illegal kicking out from home a child under 18 (actually, there was a mother who kicked out her 41 year-old son, the son denounced it, and a court decided that the mother had to take care of him; that was one or two years ago). A child on such situation should have enough to report to police to get food and shelter until the case is settled, regardless of any gender identity issue. Even in the case the child just doesn't know about that possibility, anyone meeting that child on the street has an obligation to do their best to attend that child: this would normally translate to trying to get the child tell them what's going on, and report to the police.

In summary, the tools for protecting adults and non-adults are different.

The point I'm trying to argue for is that legalization and law enforcement would make things better for those who are in this sector (which should only be adults... non-adults should be protected by specific laws). Banning would only make sense if it served to prevent it, but it simply doesn't. If you want a proof, just look anywhere where it is banned and see if it has worked. Most people who work on this do so because they have no other choice, so they'll do it regardless of it being legal or not. Legalization would enable protecting these people to some degree, which is slightly better than being entirely at the mercy of pimps and clients.

Hope I haven't said any non-sense this time ^^'

Regards,

Ethain

[Guest Jean Davis]

For example, here in Spain it is illegal kicking out from home a child under 18 (actually, there was a mother who kicked out her 41 year-old son, the son denounced it, and a court decided that the mother had to take care of him; that was one or two years ago).

Honey is this correct? 41 years old?

LUV

Jean

[Guest Natalie92]

I'm not quite sure about LEGALIZING prostitution, but it does need to be decriminalized. The women and girls who turn to it need HELP, not a prison sentence.

Natalie

[Guest]

Roughly a bit of each... actually, English is my third language, rather than second (I have both Spanish and Catalan as native languages)... despite I consider myself fluent, using English takes significantly more (mental) effort than using a native language. This, added to the complexity of this topic, and my innate ability to just mess things up, easily leads to writing things that are either plain non-sense or simply understood as such.

Even those for whom English is a primary language mess up all the time. I know I do especially with spelling. The only reason I even bring it up is because our International community has dramatically increased here and not everyone is aware. It's not just the language barrier but there are cultural differences as well. Attitudes are different in other cultures as are politics. I think it's neat. People have visited here from every country on the planet. All are most welcome. Don't worry about messing up. Practice makes perfect. Besides we have much to learn from each other.

Laura

[Guest Edu]

Honey is this correct? 41 years old?

LUV

Jean

Yep, that was what brought the media's attention to the case. The judge determined that the man was not capable of taking care of himself, so his mother had to bear with him. Of course, that's a rare case, not the norm.

I don't really agree with that decision (I think it would have only taken a few days out and a bit of self-preservation instinct for that man to become "capable" of living on his own); but it's a quite extreme example of how protective the laws can get here in Spain.

Besides such extreme cases, our laws are intended to protect the young ones as much as possible (sometimes going a bit too far). In the relevant case, teens being kicked off because of gender identity issues, they find a great deal of protection within Spanish laws.

The only cases of teen prostitution that happen in Spain are those of undocumented immigrants close to the age of consent, so it can't be reliably determined whether they are adults or not. And, even in such cases, authorities normally take swift action, just to be on the safe side.

It's when dealing with adults that law enforcement is really lacking.

Regards,

Ethain

[Guest Syamantaka]

It is not only legal in Amsterdam but it is thoroughly regulated by the health department and taxed rather heavily, it is conducted like a business not on the streets but in storefronts along side the section by the canal where you see all of the tourists smoking pot and doing any sort of drug they have managed to buy.

It seems to be more of a tourist thing because for many it is the thrill of the risky behavior not just the act of sex that draws them to prostitutes and the fear of being arrested has been taken away along with the fear of being rolled by the pimp - so the thrill is greatly reduced.

I could not vote for it because I still think that it is a last resort for woman and legalizing it would move it up on the list for some but I could not vote against it because prohibition never solves a problem so I will abstain and hope that it does not become the 'lofty' goal for any young girls.

Love ya,

Sally

Same in South East Asia; Government regulated for at least two millennium.

[Guest krisspykriss]

Legalizing it and putting it in a storefront getting off the streets would eliminate a lot of problems. Most places though it is still illegal and dangerous.

Even from the avalanche of the email I've received I've never had a letter from a happy prostitute. I have though received letters with horror stories from those in the profession. Beatings, forced drug addictions and being the victim of robberies and violence though was commonplace. Pimps are not wonderful people and treat their girls more like slaves than human beings. Your life is not your own. Some did this to save money for SRS only to be robbed. Not one in the letters I received obtained SRS and got out of the profession.

I wouldn't recommend this life for anyone. It should be avoided like the plague. I do understand why people try it and I don't judge them. In my opinion its setting yourself up to be a victim and you aren't likley to achieve your goals.

Laura

Maybe that is because of a bias in reporting. If it is going well for you, why take the risk of being judged? OTOH, if things went bad wrong, you are wiling to take that chance to vent and get advice, sympathy, or just an ear to listen.

I don't know if this qualifies for your definition of prostitution (it does mine but doesnt match what I myself normally perceive as being a prostitute), but my experience has been overwhelmingly positive. Here is a brief explanation of what I do.

I place an ad stating that I am looking for a generous gentleman who would like to take me out and show me a good time. I am very verbose and try to sell myself more on my intelligence, culture and ability to provide a well rounded experience beyond sex. I know before hand what the gentleman is wanting to do and it is always more than sex. We go out to dinner, sightseeing, clubbing, seeing a show... and we have sex. I am as safe as possible about it. We take a rapid response HIV test and practice safe sex. Usually it is a weekend deal, but I have had a couple gentlemen where it was more like being a kept mistress. We meet and have dinner and get to know each other some and then I give it a go or no-go. I haven't had one negative experience yet.

Am I taking some risks? Yes, but I mitigate them as much as possible.

Right now, I am current out of the field, but might get back into it in the future. It depends on a lot of things. I wouldn't ever be a street prostitute, or work for someone. There in lies a lot of potential trouble.

Anyway, there is a positive story.

hugz,

Chrissy

[TassieTiff]

Kia Ora Jendar,

How's things your side of the ditch?.... The Helen Clark Labor government in NZ did a lot of good work.... And history will be kind to them. I took an interest in NZ Government when I heard about Georgina Beyers..... I dead set Admire that woman..... For a Trans woman to end up Mayor in a town full of red necks takes real courage.... From memory she had a checkered past that included the 'Game'.... She stood up in the NZ Parliament and admitted her past... AND shot down all the gossip mongers .... Brilliant attitude to life....

I Have a Close personal friend in Geelong , Victoria.... She is Married to a submissive pre-op TS who is also a personal friend of mine....Together they have raised 4 children.... She works in a regulated Brothel.... Earns good money as a Dominatrix ( five years ago it was $400 an hour)... She is very good at what she does,,, AND deserves to be compensated appropriately...She provides a service that is in demand and has Managed to put asside enough money to live a comfortable lifestyle, Raise her kids and Pay for Hubbies Op....She has regular Blood tests and practices Safe sex.... WHO is it hurting... No-one....

[Guest April63]

Kia Ora,

There're pros and cons to both arguements[no pun intended] But by bringing prostitution to the surface[legalising it] makes it easier to monitor -When underground who knows what goes on...

There an old saying "Better the devil you 'know'!"[and can regulate]

After all isn't 'Honesty is the best policy'!

Metta Jendar

But by legalizing prostitution, you would be lowering your standards. You would be essentially telling people that it is ok. Telling them to do it. I think it would be safer if you kept if illegal. This way, the standard is set above prostitution. All of the problems associated with it will hopefully stop some people from doing it. But there's free will, so some people will still do it, and there's nothing we can do about that.

[TassieTiff]

But by legalizing prostitution, you would be lowering your standards. You would be essentially telling people that it is ok. Telling them to do it. I think it would be safer if you kept if illegal. This way, the standard is set above prostitution. All of the problems associated with it will hopefully stop some people from doing it. But there's free will, so some people will still do it, and there's nothing we can do about that.

April,

You are missing the point here. Prostitution was not a creation of the 20th century.....Or the previous century either.... It is a Power thing... Up till recently Men had all the power and money.... And women were domestic servants that if you married them would work for food and clothing and not much more.... Prostitution once legalised and policed and TAXED moves out of the back room and into a shop front and if anything Gives a Woman... OR a man (As no-one here has mentioned Male Prostitutes and they too are a reality ) some power and dignity.

In the course of My lifetime I have met and befriended several Prostitutes....And away from the work environment....they are people like you and me...I have never been a paying Client though...( Slept with a few too.... But that is another story ....lol)

REALITY... It has been around as a profession since we jumped down out of the trees....Only difference now.... They take all major Credit Cards....

[Guest viv]

Kia Ora,

This thread is open to all M2Fs, F2Ms & cisgender

A few years ago [along with legalising civil unions] the old Labour government [here in Aotearoa] legalized prostitution, prostitutes now pay tax and are protected under the law…So far so good there not been any increase in the number of prostitutes and things have not gotten out of hand as many conservatives believed would be the case…

It’s a well known fact many transgender girls/women end up as sex workers-for the most part it’s the only kind of work they can get…Many young one because of their feminine nature[mannerisms and behaviour] had been ‘bullied’ out of an education-leaving school without basic work survival skills, plus been kicked out of home by unsympathetic parents whilst some older ones were deemed ‘unemployable’ for the main stream work force…

I know earlier on at the beginning of my transition ‘prostitution’ did cross my mind [even though I’m asexual for me this doesn’t mean that I would not have sex, it just means I have no interest in sex no sexual desires], but fortunately friends took me in put a roof over my head and I was eligible for unemployment benefit…Since then I’ve managed quite well even though I have no full time work, I work part time as an urban pestologist plus I’ve been doing voluntary work…So I can fully understand where some sex workers are coming from…

I’m sure ‘prostitution’ has crossed the minds of some members here-some no doubt have partaken or still partake in the profession…

I neither condemn nor condone prostitution…For many it’s a life line until something better comes along[some do it to earn the money for surgery]- for others it might just be that they are highly sexed and it’s a way to release their sexual desires and get paid for it…It might not be my ‘cup of tea’ but what right do I have to condemn another’s choice of making a living - as long as one is not harming nor forcing something upon others I can’t see any problems with it…But in saying that, sadly it’s certain sections of society who actually ‘force’ many trans-women into prostitution…

If one cares to think outside the square, for the most part we are all ‘prostitutes’ ‘selling our bodies/skills’ to our employers for money-some just ‘go the extra mile’ so to speak…

Personally I don’t feel that a person should be punished for doing something that they are[in many cases] forced by society to do to earn a living ‘survival money’…Plus it’s a ‘supply on demand’ service, where men ‘demand’ it and women ‘supply’ it…Stop the demand[castrate all males ] and the supply will 'dry up'[but where would that leave those trans-women who can’t find work in main stream society???]…

Over the years I’ve voted YES to civil unions YES to legalising Marijuana and YES to legalising prostitution and why did I vote YES…Because I believe in ‘freedom of choice’…When it comes to how an individual should live they life I believe we all should have a choice…After all who am I to judge!!!

When it comes to legalising prostitution in your state/country would you vote YES or NO?

Food for thought…

Metta Jendar

Hi Jendar,

Prostitutions got to be legalised as the alternative is sending it "underground " where I believe much more women will become the victims

of violence and worse . LEGALISE, IT MAKES SENSE !!!Luv, Viv.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora all,

Just a quick update...A few weeks back I saw a doco about a ladies group in the UK[a group of well to do women who normallly sat around drinking tea and eating scones and discussing the whether] who decided to do some research into the possiblity of legalising prostitution in the UK as a way to 'protect' the 'ladies of the night'...Well two members of the group went on a fact finding trip to Europe, America and good old Aotearoa [NZ]-they checked out Amsterdam and Nevada and NZ, it was in NZ that they found the most well organise/run systems in place, and of which they would try to model in the UK-The owner operator buisnesses in NZ went by the name 'SOOB'[self-Own & Operated Business]...

Just thought I would add this bit of useless info to the mix-the doco was really interesting BTW...

Metta Jendar

Oh and Kia Ora cousin Tassie how's things in Tas? No doubt warming up somewhat by now...