Outed In A Big Way

[Guest angie]

I know a girl who unfortunantly for her,does not look very

feminine and has no taste or style.Even three years in transition,

She hardly looks the part,still flip flopping between presenting

as a woman or a man.She had her name change last Monday.

I guess to push herself to make up her mind.And when she went

to the Social Security office to have her information updated,had

to go to the restroom.And when exiting,the security guard on duty,

outed her in front of the full room."I could have you arrested for

using the ladies room,you do not belong in there,because you are

a man.And just who do you think you are?" For she did not get her

marker change,had no way to prove she is a girl.Whoa. I know that

hurt her psychie very badly ,to be outed like that in such a public way.

And I am so very happy it hasn't ever happened to me.

Angie

[Guest Donna Jean]

Awwwwww...that's just awful.......

Even if she whipped out a "Carry Letter" he had already said those things in front of everyone.....DANG!

Well, there is no accounting for idiots...but, if she doesn't pass very well, she may want to dress more obviously female or the hair or some other female cues......At least the guard might think that she was just not a real good looking woman, but a woman none the less....

That's just terrible.....

HUGG

Donna Jean

[Guest Zabrak]

I feel sorry for her but everyone has to worry about looking the correct gender when using the public restrooms. After three years you think she would understand that.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

That is why one must be careful at all times in public. Carry your carry letter at all times, as well as anything else that is necessary to help one to avoid such confrontations. I am not sure of this particulary case, but was this person presenting as female or male when the encounter occurred?

If one presents as one gender in public, then use the appropriate restroom. The public is very sensitive about this.

Brenda

[Guest nymphblossom]

Mimimum wage mall flunky on a power trip- how dare he.

These guys carry no authority. I would have looked him squarely in the eye and said, "And here I was freshening up so I would be pretty for you. But now that I get a closer look, I see you're a woman!

Blossom

[Guest angie]

This person went about transition in all the wrong ways.

First self diagnosing,then self starting HRT with no prior

history of GID,all in a three month period.Refused to go

to therapy,except once in three years,even though she

knows she needs it.So there is no carry letter,nothing to

verify her claim.That is why she did not get the marker

change,no letter,bills,nothing,she didn't even use her name.

She would whine and cry,saying that my friends and I are

real girls,while she was left behind.It matters not how you

present,if you only dress occasionally and are not comfortable

in your public presentation.Then you add in that she really has

no taste,with only a few outfits that fit terribly and hardly even

match.She still walks like a man,talks like a man,dresses in man

wear,that was almost asking to be outed.So now you see why it

happened.And though I feel for her that this took place,maybe it

was a wakeup call,to step up and get on the ball.

I understand what you are saying Brenda,about using the public

facilities while in role.But you must look the part convincingly or

deal with the consequences,expect that something like this can happen.

Angie

[Guest nymphblossom]

Angie, in light of what you just posted, I guess I should add what I said above is what I would have told the security guard. I present myself to the best of my ability whenever I am in public, dress neatly and in good tast, and present myself as the middle aged women I am. Yes, I get get clocked occasionally, but generally I am invisible and am given the common social decency of being treated like a woman.

This girl deserves exactly what she got. She is a discredit to all of us who do our best to present as just other woman in society.

Blossom

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

Even with my letter, new license, etc.. I still have that lingering fear some times.

In many situations I'm able to talk myself out of it ("Liz, you look like a girl, you act like a girl, you are a girl, you're doing normal girl things stop freaking out!") but there's still that "what if...." like what your friend experienced.

On the other hand after getting my new driver's license I went right into the ladies room like it was no big deal.

(and again, why should it be? I'm looking like a girl, dressed like one, acting like one......)

[Guest Charlene_Leona]

I hate to say it but if she doesn't put any effort into her transition she is going to be facing this all the time. She is asking to get arrested by not looking the part or even acting the part. From your description of her I don't think I could even feel sorry for her, a self medicator and by refusing to go to a therapist she might as well give up on ever getting legal meds or ever getting to a point to get approved for SRS.

If I were in your shoe's I would sit her down and explain to her why she must do these things so she can transition successfully. I've meet a few people like this in my journeys and I think IMHO that they are the one's that make it hard for those of us who work hard at our transition and do everything we must so we will be accepted as the gender we see ourselves as.

[Guest angie]

Even with my letter, new license, etc.. I still have that lingering fear some times.

In many situations I'm able to talk myself out of it ("Liz, you look like a girl, you act like a girl, you are a girl, you're doing normal girl things stop freaking out!") but there's still that "what if...." like what your friend experienced.

On the other hand after getting my new driver's license I went right into the ladies room like it was no big deal.

(and again, why should it be? I'm looking like a girl, dressed like one, acting like one......)

Lizzie,

It comes easier and easier until you don't even think about it.I was at a banquet at the Hilton

on the very top floor last week, using the mirrors in the ladies room anterior to fix my lipstick

and not once got a second look.In fact,that is where I was given such a huge compliment.It is

truly all about attitude and the image you project.

Smiles and hugs ladies,

Angie

[Guest Natalie92]

Since I'm not in therapy yet since I'm still a minor and have transphobic parents I have to ask a stupid question. What do you mean by "carry letter" exactly?

Natalie Alexis

[Guest NatalieRene]

After reading this topic and reviewing an article my therapist wanted me to read before next session about the effects of hrt I think your friend falls under the category of impulsively deciding to transition without taking into account or preparing for the hardships that come with the territory along the way. I feel bad that she got outed like that but that probably cold have been avoided if she wasn't wishy washy on how she presents herself.

Here's an quote from the article that I think may pertain to her.

"Others have made an impulsive decision, have

unrealistic expectations, lack information about possible risks and complications, are unprepared for

the psychosocial consequences of endocrine therapy, or have a condition that is complicating the

ability to make an informed decision. In these cases a more prolonged process is required to clarify

whether endocrine therapy is the best course of action, and to identify additional supports that may

be needed as part of the process."

and

"1. Able to give informed consent

2. Informed of anticipated effects and risks

3. Either completion of 3 months “real-life experience”

or psychotherapy for duration specified by the

assessor (usually a minimum of 3 months)

The HBIGDA Standards of Care note that: “in selected

circumstances, it can be acceptable to provide hormones

to patients who have not fulfilled criterion 3 – for example,

to facilitate the provision of monitored therapy using

hormones of known quality, as an alternative to black-

market or unsupervised hormone use”. "

from http://transhealth.vch.ca/resources/librar...s-endocrine.pdf

I think in your friends case she should at least go see a doctor about her do it herself hrt and get checked out to make sure she isn't killing herself with bad dosage or getting her hormones from questionable sources. That way at the very least she will still physically healthy. I would strongly encourage her to seek therapy though even if it's just once a month. It really does help, I know I'm preaching to the choir but in addition to working with you in the here and now and getting past traumatic events in your past and problems currently they help make sure you are informed and know the risks and what to expect so you don't go running in without a clue and get hurt or worse by for just one example using hormones at a improper dosage and doing irreparable damage to the body.

I really hope she seeks help and guidance. Don't give up on her Angie.

[Paula ult]

Since I'm not in therapy yet since I'm still a minor and have transphobic parents I have to ask a stupid question. What do you mean by "carry letter" exactly?

Natalie Alexis

A carry letter you get from your therapist, it says you are transitioning and under a therapist's care and should be allowed to use the woman's washroom, you carry it in your wallet or purse so if you are confronted like the person Angie told us about, you can show them, it may or may not help but it is reassuring to know you have something official.

Paula

[Guest ~Brenda~]

This person went about transition in all the wrong ways.

First self diagnosing,then self starting HRT with no prior

history of GID,all in a three month period.Refused to go

to therapy,except once in three years,even though she

knows she needs it.So there is no carry letter,nothing to

verify her claim.That is why she did not get the marker

change,no letter,bills,nothing,she didn't even use her name.

She would whine and cry,saying that my friends and I are

real girls,while she was left behind.It matters not how you

present,if you only dress occasionally and are not comfortable

in your public presentation.Then you add in that she really has

no taste,with only a few outfits that fit terribly and hardly even

match.She still walks like a man,talks like a man,dresses in man

wear,that was almost asking to be outed.So now you see why it

happened.And though I feel for her that this took place,maybe it

was a wakeup call,to step up and get on the ball.

I understand what you are saying Brenda,about using the public

facilities while in role.But you must look the part convincingly or

deal with the consequences,expect that something like this can happen.

Angie

Your friend should join Laura's. She needs our help pronto!! She is playing with dynamite!! Self-diagnosis, self-HRT, impulsive acts, being outed inappropriately, these are all the signs of a train wreck in the making. You are her friend. Encourage her to join Laura's. When she is here, she will begin to understand herself more and then be able to choose the right path for her. Your friend is walking in the dark, and in a mine field. In a way she is lucky that she was outed in a safe environment. She could have been outed by a gang of thugs, and that would have been it for her. Make no mistake!! What your friend is doing is suicidal! This is a very serious matter for your friend. Joining Laura's is free and it will save her life. Here at Laura's she will learn fashion, the importance of transitioning the right way, stories of how people have successfully come out, and something very important... self acceptance and respect.

Only a few years ago, I was more out of control like your friend. I did many dumb things like self-HRT. I consider myself lucky do have not have become just a statistic. It was not until I joined Laura's did I really understand how incredibily dangerous and dumb some of the things I did were.

Your friend really should join Laura's. I think her life depends on it.

Brenda

[Guest angie]

Not B,

She has known about Laura's since one month after I started transition.

B was my room mate for eight months.I met her,and she moved herself in,

six months into HRT.Starting while in a half way house,in a mens dorm.

She was not ready for the changes,not in any way form or fashion should

she have ever been on HRT.I started my journey one month after she moved

in,but I know who I am and knew that it was my time.And the differences in our

transitions was and is night and day,so different in every way.

Angie

[Guest Jess_W]

wow, insulting at the least,

even with the circumstances he shouldn't have done that, with the mixture of races and looks not all "women" who are bonr women look female, just as not all men look like men, he should be held accountable for his stupidity buy his supervisors. it has been a worry i thought of but kept quite, when i start everything, and i start dressing everyday, how when will i know when i look the part enough to use which bathroom.... especially in texas where going into a females bathroom as an "offical male" can get you jail time, citated, or even beaten up buy a few sun burnt good old tractor boys....

[Guest angie]

wow, insulting at the least,

even with the circumstances he shouldn't have done that, with the mixture of races and looks not all "women" who are bonr women look female, just as not all men look like men, he should be held accountable for his stupidity buy his supervisors. it has been a worry i thought of but kept quite, when i start everything, and i start dressing everyday, how when will i know when i look the part enough to use which bathroom.... especially in texas where going into a females bathroom as an "offical male" can get you jail time, citated, or even beaten up buy a few sun burnt good old tractor boys....

What you do if you can,is to try to find a unisex restroom until you just decide to use the ladies

facilities.You decide when it is your time to venture in to a place that becomes where you belong.

What you do at first is don't look women in the eye.

Angie

[Sakura]

he was just doing what he is paid to do a security guards primary job is to investigate suspect behavior and anything that dosnt appear right * my boy friend is a security guard * while he dosnt have the athority to detain there is usually a police officer with in radioing distance so arguing with them could get you in jail

in this day and age you simply cant take anything at face value alls he needs to for just cause to investigate is the fact that there is a man dressed like a woman in the ladies rest room and there is no set in stone law saying just because your transsexual your allowed to use womens changing facilites or rest rooms

its sad but happens quiet often when i used to go to groups alot of girls there had a horror story about mall security keeping them from using the rest room

best thing you can do is just move on and find another place to potty because arguing only makes the situation worse

Sakura

[Guest cjnoble71]

Angie,

I have to say, I feel bad for your friend, but she is doing herself no favors. I won't judge on the not trying to pass, I work in a hot kitchen and some days, home just seems so much farther than the coffee shop afterward. That said, the coffee shop in question has a single, unisex bathroom and if I ever think I don't pass well enough, I hold it until I get home, or get to a unisex restroom. The guard didn't have to be so obnoxious though, some people are just cruel.

Christine

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I read all the above and it was good advice, good opinion and good information.

(1) Your friend needs to be realistic.

(2) The guard was out of line as he should have taken her aside and cautioned her - he was terribly unprofessional.

One of the reasons we three went to Memphis was to test our ability to be acceped, and it was a scary thing at first., But no one noticed. It was VERY liberating to know that.

Later - talking with my therapist - she said if presenting male, use the men's. If presenting female, use the women's restrooms. So if presenting female it seems logical to do the best possible job of putting out cues as a woman. There is the secret - look, act and be.

I don't really understand the big deal about using the Women's restroom - when you gotta go you gotta go. I avoid the 'large community' restrooms like Malls and such. Statistically, the more people you encounter the more likely to be 'clocked' if you are going to be. Also the bigger open restrooms are more likely to be monitored by rent-a-cops. And then there is the unfortunate situation where some crossdressing presentation is just not very good. If a person is wanting to gain a 'thrill' by using a restroom - that is going to telegraph to everyone.

So if you need to potty - are dressed appropriately - go use the facilities, go in , get out, go about your business. Usually no one cares.

I doubt I woulda used the SS office facilities - mainly because they have too many people - and may not be clean. But that's me.

Grin

:Lizzy:

[Guest krisspykriss]

The whole restroom thing causes me anxiety as well. Whenever I can, I utilize a unisex restroom or a single stall restroom. I avoid large and/or occupied restrooms as best i can regardless of the way I am dressed. Heck, I was in guy mode the other day and a guy kinda tripped a litte about it. He wasn't loud or making a scene. I just confused him. He waited politely outside the restroom until I was finished.

The only time I get real nervous is in restaurants and bars where you have only a choice of men's or women's rooms. I am not going to leave and go to a gas-station to go potty. However, if someone does complain, I am there for the manager to find me and say something. So I avoid it until my bladder is about to burst. I haven't ever had anyone say anything though... yet. It still worries me though.

Chrissy

[Guest angie]

I have had the pleasure of standing in line waiting to use

the ladies restroom.Just relax and be yourself,you are no

different than all the other women,who only want to get in

and get it over.But...The biggest difference from old gender,

to real gender,is women visit,gab,fix their hair, lips and makeup,

talk about how long that woman in front of them is taking.

Relax sweety,few women care,and if you are really looking,

living and acting the part,you blow right through.Once comfy

going without a care,you can enjoy the magic of just getting

to be there and experiencing something that was once a taboo.

Relax my sisters and be yourself,

Angelique

[Guest cjnoble71]

I have had the pleasure of standing in line waiting to use

the ladies restroom.Just relax and be yourself,you are no

different than all the other women,who only want to get in

and get it over.But...The biggest difference from old gender,

to real gender,is women visit,gab,fix their hair, lips and makeup,

talk about how long that woman in front of them is taking.

Relax sweety,few women care,and if you are really looking,

living and acting the part,you blow right through.Once comfy

going without a care,you can enjoy the magic of just getting

to be there and experiencing something that was once a taboo.

Relax my sisters and be yourself,

Angelique

You know, you hit on an important bit of male socialization that affects us all. I usually still do the "guy" thing and say nothing, do nothing, look at nothing, while waiting in the restrooms. Hopefully I just come off as abnormally shy, and odds are good, since most GG's don't realize just how freakish men, even gay men, can be about restroom behavior.