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2 Mtf Friends


Guest AshleyRF

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Guest AshleyRF

Can two MtFs really be friends with one another? I'm not talking about just online friends.. I mean hanging out together and doing things that other women do together on a regular basis. (and I'm not speaking of 2 MtFs that are a couple, I would hope that they would be able to) It seems that recently, I have had the opportunity to meet a few transwomen in the area. I say "opportunity" because none seem all that interested in each other. None of the ones I talk to are friends with any of the other ones... sure we have each other listed as friends on facebook, but we never talk to one another, we never plan a "girls night out" or anything that genetic women tend to do. The FtMs down here are completely the opposite. They hang out with one another, and have all formed a great friendship and brotherhood with one another. What's going on here with us girls? Do we harbor jealousies towards each other because one might pass better than the other... The opposite of that can't be true because I know at least one girl who passes pretty well, yet she does not hide the fact that she is a transwoman. She even does drag shows down here. (when an MtF does drag isn't that like a baseball player being on steroids? :) ) Of course there are some in the state that do not live close to me, and we talk online and on the phone, but we never hang out together....

Is is just me? Is there something wrong with me that causes other MtFs to not want to hang out with me? The FtMs seem to love me down here. I've become great friends with several of them and all of them just adore me. (or so they say) What am I doing wrong? I have plenty of GG friends, but no MtF girlfriends to hang out with.

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Yes Ma'am We Can.

My two best girls are both MTF one pre the other post.

We are not lovers,not attracted in that way,we are only

very good friends that get to experience growing as women

together.I am so very pleased to have both these women

in my life, happy to call them real friends. Plus I love Sue,

truly I do,as only a woman can love another woman whom she

calls her best friend.So yeah Ashley,I think one MTF can be another

ones very close friend.UmmmHmm

Hugs Girl,

Angie

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Guest krisspykriss

I have a few FTM friends. I think there is some cattiness within our social group of ~300 FTMs and CDs though. Out of all of them, I hang out with 2 other FTMs. There are some almost cliques within our group that gets together about every month. You get a large enough group and you have that though whether GG, TG, or just guys.

Anyway, if you think about all the people you know, how many of them are actually close friends you hang with? Being close girlfriends takes more in common than the FTM label. So don't sweat it too much. Having a few close friends is more important than having MTF friends.

hugz

Chrissy

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Guest AshleyRF

I don't see how I could attract any attention.... I've never been called a crossdresser not once, nor gotten any funny looks... so it sure isn't a "fear of being with someone who doesn't pass" thing. It's all of them, even the ones that do not remotely pass and they know they don't... they just don't want to be around other transwomen for whatever reason, or to even talk to each other. It's not a real big deal to me. I just don't understand why it's so much different between the MtFs and the FtMs here. All the FtMs that i've talked to that know any of the MtFs around here say they are all really flaky and are here one day and say they want to be a part of the "community" and then they say you don't here from them for months at a time. I didn't know if it was a worldwide phenomenon or just a local southern transwoman thing. I'm fine without them, perhaps even better as it would not draw that attention towards me for sure but at the same time, it doesn't scare me to hang out with any other ones, attention or not. If my fellow sisters needed it, I would be there for them.

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Can two MtFs really be friends with one another? I'm not talking about just online friends.. I mean hanging out together and doing things that other women do together on a regular basis. (and I'm not speaking of 2 MtFs that are a couple, I would hope that they would be able to) It seems that recently, I have had the opportunity to meet a few transwomen in the area. I say "opportunity" because none seem all that interested in each other. None of the ones I talk to are friends with any of the other ones... sure we have each other listed as friends on facebook, but we never talk to one another, we never plan a "girls night out" or anything that genetic women tend to do. The FtMs down here are completely the opposite. They hang out with one another, and have all formed a great friendship and brotherhood with one another. What's going on here with us girls? Do we harbor jealousies towards each other because one might pass better than the other... The opposite of that can't be true because I know at least one girl who passes pretty well, yet she does not hide the fact that she is a transwoman. She even does drag shows down here. (when an MtF does drag isn't that like a baseball player being on steroids? :) ) Of course there are some in the state that do not live close to me, and we talk online and on the phone, but we never hang out together....

Is is just me? Is there something wrong with me that causes other MtFs to not want to hang out with me? The FtMs seem to love me down here. I've become great friends with several of them and all of them just adore me. (or so they say) What am I doing wrong? I have plenty of GG friends, but no MtF girlfriends to hang out with.

Hi Ashley,

I guess if you are comfortable with the other t woman in terms of having other stuff in common like a regular visit to say the cinema, there should be no relationship

problems but you have got me thinking girl......so, we trans women came from being men (sorry) , and men like to dominate situations / its in their nature, rearing etc.

So we would have adopted a lot of that stuff like it or not when we were growin up ....now, lets suppose some of us hold on (subconsciously) to that male quality and some of us dont, the women who do will probably try to still dominate say a conversion with a t woman who has become more docile and so both become uncomfortable around one another.

Thats just one variable in a minefield of thousands and Im trying to opine on a subject I know so little about, social behavioural science . I will leave it at that as looking for a diffinative answer could turn out to be a bottomless pit . Dont know how any of this sounds Ashley but I do know this , theres a lot to be said for simplicity , ???. Viv.

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Guest Lizzie McTrucker
Can two MtFs really be friends with one another? I'm not talking about just online friends.. I mean hanging out together and doing things that other women do together on a regular basis.

I would love to have a friend like you to hang out with because I don't have many friends who are into the whole 'girl's day' thing and those who are live all over the state so it's not easy to meet up if they live 4 hours away just to hang out at the salon for mani/pedis, ya know?

I do have more GG friends than MTF because the MTFs I know in person are all kinda catty and I'm not really sure why....maybe I had a bad dose of HRT and never grew the catty gene, I dunno.

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This is a fact...

One trans woman can slide on by virtually undetected.

While two together for what ever reason,get made more often.

Really it shouldn't make a difference.If you enjoy the moment

and your time together,not worry about the public,and just be

yourselves,it can be a real life experience you both grow from.

It happened for me with far longer experienced women when I

was first starting RLE.It was seeing her comfort dealing with the

public and how natural she was in her role,that gave me a goal

to aim for.

Angie

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I would love to have a friend like you to hang out with because I don't have many friends who are into the whole 'girl's day' thing and those who are live all over the state so it's not easy to meet up if they live 4 hours away just to hang out at the salon for mani/pedis, ya know?

I do have more GG friends than MTF because the MTFs I know in person are all kinda catty and I'm not really sure why....maybe I had a bad dose of HRT and never grew the catty gene, I dunno.

My girlfriends are polar opposites,

Lauren is as girly girl as I am.We do the beauty salon,get pedicures,go shopping together all

the time.Sit around my place doing our nails or playing with our makeup and hair.While Sue

is a get it done kind of girl.Little makeup,doesn't like to mess with her hair,looks very nice in

her outfits,but could look so much better if she only allowed herself more time to girlify.

For her everything has to be done quick,while we like to take our time.

I am a lucky lady to have my friends.

Angie

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Guest AshleyRF

It's even more than the "hanging out" together thing.. we don't even talk to each other online or anything... We hardly even acknowledge each other. I just don't understand why it is that the FtMs can ALL get along so well together and why we MtFs can't. There has to be a reason behind it.

I just think some of us harbor a lot of jealousy and envy towards each other for various reasons and it dampers our abilities to be friends with each other. Honestly, how can you be friends with someone that you are jealous of? You really can't.

It really makes no difference to me if I'm hanging with GGs, transwomen, GM, or transmen... if I enjoy their company then it's all go to me. I just really find it strange that the MtFs in this area really don't want to have anything to do with other MtFs or even with the "community" at all. Sad, pathetic and kinda selfish of them if you ask me. There are tons of girls out there who could really use the support and guidance of their sisters who have come before them.

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Guest NatalieRene
My girlfriends are polar opposites,

Lauren is as girly girl as I am.We do the beauty salon,get pedicures,go shopping together all

the time.Sit around my place doing our nails or playing with our makeup and hair.While Sue

is a get it done kind of girl.Little makeup,doesn't like to mess with her hair,looks very nice in

her outfits,but could look so much better if she only allowed herself more time to girlify.

For her everything has to be done quick,while we like to take our time.

I am a lucky lady to have my friends.

Angie

It sounds like you have such a wonderful life. I wish I was at that point.

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Guest ChloëC

Ashley,

Reading all these posts, I get a feeling (probably unsupported by reality, but still) that besides other possibilities, it may also be an age and self-confidence issue. Which sort of go together.

If this all was, oh, let's say, 30 years ago, I would have been terrified of posting, and extremely nervous of just lurking here. Now, it's like, I understand enough about myself and I have a desire to explore more and share (as well as realizing that at my age, I'd better do it!). So, dang it, I want to be here. And I'm even considering if I'm in the area of some of the people I've met online, I would like to meet them in person. I'd never have even considered that when I was younger. So often with age comes self-confidence, which the lack of can sometimes show itself as jealousy.

And, it wouldn't surprise me one way or the other if these bad ol' male hormones still coarsing through this bod subtely encourages (or rather discourages) one to strive to make it on one's own. As in, 'I can do this on my own or I've got to do this on my own. I don't need (or want) others.' One additional vestige that needs to be overcome.

That you want and relish companionship for this journey puts you far ahead of the others. At least in my mind. Good for you. With your positive attitude, I'm sure you'll find others. (tho it sounds a little like telling my daughters that they'll find the right guy, easy for me to say)

Chloë

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Guest krisspykriss
I don't see how I could attract any attention.... I've never been called a crossdresser not once, nor gotten any funny looks...

So you just woke up one day and passed? You never went through an awkward stage in your transition? You have never been made?

The answer to your question might lie in the above statement.

Hugz,

Chrissy

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Ashley,

Reading all these posts, I get a feeling (probably unsupported by reality, but still) that besides other possibilities, it may also be an age and self-confidence issue. Which sort of go together.

If this all was, oh, let's say, 30 years ago, I would have been terrified of posting, and extremely nervous of just lurking here. Now, it's like, I understand enough about myself and I have a desire to explore more and share (as well as realizing that at my age, I'd better do it!). So, dang it, I want to be here. And I'm even considering if I'm in the area of some of the people I've met online, I would like to meet them in person. I'd never have even considered that when I was younger. So often with age comes self-confidence, which the lack of can sometimes show itself as jealousy.

And, it wouldn't surprise me one way or the other if these bad ol' male hormones still coarsing through this bod subtely encourages (or rather discourages) one to strive to make it on one's own. As in, 'I can do this on my own or I've got to do this on my own. I don't need (or want) others.' One additional vestige that needs to be overcome.

That you want and relish companionship for this journey puts you far ahead of the others. At least in my mind. Good for you. With your positive attitude, I'm sure you'll find others. (tho it sounds a little like telling my daughters that they'll find the right guy, easy for me to say)

Chloë

Hiya Chloe,

Just read your post /reply to Ashley and it makes a lot more sense than mine , thanks for that as I think I "overcooked" my reply in trying to make

sense of a good question. My ideal solution would be to keep it simple, dont push too hard in any direction /and have you ever noticed ???when things get too

tough for women they have the ability to "surrender" so as to avoid uncomfortable situations, men cant (hormone thing again) they hold on to trouble like a

dog holding on to a bone....you know ?????..If I keep goin on here this post will be as ...eh....overcooked as my first- but I gotta say , the lady did open up

some subject matter....kept me up all night , oh gee, really got me goin there. Love you all on Mondays and twice as much on Sundays, Viv , :) .

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Guest Elizabeth K

Older T-girl checking in here. This is one of the first times I have used that term - the 't-girl' part, grin. I know too well about the older part.

I was curious to read what you wrote and to see others say something about being in the South. I live in New Orleans and it is about as SOUTH as is gets, darlin'. I am originally from Texas asnd know the redneck thang too. Maybe it is where I am in transition (one year real soon) that makes the differenece. I don't know you ladies that well, but Ashley, Angie and Lizzy McT have some of the most magnificent avatars for MTF here on the site. I do well enough but I don't have that type of passability - or I once thought I didn't. Recently I came to know that is not true. And perhaps that is why I now consider myself a full-time woman - a t-girl. These days I pass without trying, and it is so liberating.

No - this is not a me-me-me thing. I was just setting the stage. For whatever reason I have five close MTF friends that I have met and, better yet, hung out with, and we are just like any other friends, we love each other as friends (something much more intense and satisfying than we could as male friends because we can actually 'love' each other). But like all women, there are limitations and conditions to our friendship. I think that is normal. BUT

I do see a little influence of transsexuality on our relationship. My longest friendship goes back to a t-woman I have known for 45 years. She actually was my room-mate in college when we were both male. I also went to high school with her. She was my first mentor and I call her regularly because she has a very small support group. She is four years post op - and lives fulltime to the point she is really stealth. But when I first stared transition I asked if I could come live with her if I had to. She wanted to know if I passed. Later she apologized, but she was concerned about being 'read' if a non-passing transperson was living with her. Now therein may be the answer to some of you question (Fortunately I soon began 'passing' in public pretty well and felt I could move in with her). But her ways bug me! Just like in college, we are great friends - but now as mutual T-girls, it's so much more on different layers. We are not as close as I thought we might be, but it is personalities, not TS-ism.

Secondly - my two dearest friends in the entire world - oh my - maybe in the unniverse - have turned out to be trans. These two t-girls are such a delight to me - and we didn't meet in person for such a long time! AUGGGGGH - but now we know each other and communicate EVERY DAY and sometimes two and three times a day. I will tease you on this a bit by not saying who they are - but look at the top three posters here at Laura's? I would lay down my life for these women. And they taught me - we taught each other - we are women. Maybe there is another part of your answer.

And then there is my hidden T-woman friend who is the daughter of one of my male friends. She is about ten years post FFS and doesn't want SRS. She lives with her mother and I see her when she comes into town. We communicate well, go out to eat when she is here. I would love to go shopping and all but we are separted by distance as she lives several states over. She is twenty years younger but ten years ahead of me in her life experience as a woman. We have this strange relationship in a way because we are both T-girls, and yet she has a social disorder, and has some difficultly transitioning into society. So it shows two people with the same condition might not exactly be close personal friends. If she lived next door to each other I certainly would cultivate that friendship, I think.

Then a GREAT FRIEND! A T-woman in New Orleans - and I just love her. She and I are in similar fields, and I know her through my thersapist. We meet for lunch all the time, but don't email much. We do well, and I would love to socialize with her but she is a work-a-holic. She is also a trans-advocate and has shaken the trees here in New Orleans. Fortunately she has settled down a bit and I know her as a friend I can call on when I am in trouble. We could socialize a bit more but we don't. She is NOT afraid of a newbie transwoman like me. And she is 15 years post op.

Then there are the four MTF in my GLBT group - two are street people and as bit away from where I am, but who were the ones who gave me their phone numbers in the event I needed help. Another is a rough ole gal, someone I would not be friends with in usual circumstances, but someone I know well enough now to ask anything. She is VERY pro-active in the group. This provides my core support except - THREE beutiful T-girls - all about age twenty - in my group. I am so jealous! They have a lifetime as women to look forward to. Thay are just magnificent! BUT they don't socialize with each othe outside the group. I don't know why.

And there are two T-girls my therapist treats near the same time as me. We have met. But we haven't had time to know one another.

BUT I also have T-girl and T-men friends I have never met. Some are on Lauras (you know who you are) - a few are on other sites. One ia an Androgyne friend of mine - I would do ANYTHING for her! Yet I have never kissed her or given her a hug, That's what I want to do - I just can't. She lives as hidden life where I don't fit.

ANd then there are those magnificent men on Laura's! Oh my - makes my heart flutter - such sweet people!

People here at Laura's? Oh my - I know we woud be best friends! And then there is my friend Allison - whom I will meet - whom I will shop with - oh yes.

So I have been blessed with friends. And I have both the MTF and the FTM I know so well. Perhaps it comes down to loving your friends. I never did that well as a male. And I an SO READY to go shopping!

Lizzy

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Guest madelane

Hi all

Viv I do believe that your observations are quite accurate. Unless you start to change or recognise and accept the female in you at a very tender age you ARE going to be conditioned by society and your peers in subtle ways that reinforce your manhood. Things that are difficult to become seld aware of but that other people can spot a long way off. Guys just do not do the shopping together thing and the long ntimate chats and all that goes with feminity and mode of thinking. Even our observations on these matters are tainted by our past 'man' as it where.

But having said all that I also know a few women who reamin women maried with children and all that goes with it who could quite easily pass off as men complete with attitude.

We, I do believe, try to hard to be 'woman' and are prone to steriotype that aspect.

The hanging together or not therefore, as as been pointed out by Elizabeth, is more to do with our past than being a 't' girl.

Hugs

Madelane

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Guest Lizzie McTrucker
It's even more than the "hanging out" together thing.. we don't even talk to each other online or anything... We hardly even acknowledge each other.

This I will agree with. I used to have a number of online MTF friends, some I even met in person and whatnot. I don't talk to any of them online anymore. We just sort of drifted away. I don't know if it's part of going stealth or what. Right now the only TS people I talk to online are you guys and gals and another TS truck driver whos email address was forwarded to me by a mutual friend, but she lives in Oregon. :(

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Guest Donna Jean

Heck, I'd hang with you, GF!

I'd love to have some MTF friends here ....but, rural Ohio? It's easier to see a two headed cow....

I have wonderful friends out of state, but it's not feasible to "hang" with them...

I'd LOVE to ride around with you in that lavender tractor!

Huggs.........

Donna Jean

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When I first saw this topic I thought it should be under entertainment and in the joke forum: "2 MTF friends walk into a bar, you'd think that the second one would have ducked!", but I see that it is a serious discussion.

So it is time to get serious and look deep inside ourselves.

I have always had the types of friends that show up when they are in need but tend to disappear when I need them, I had always wondered why, because I always helped them but I don't believe that I was nearly as open about how much their friendship meant to me.

Therein lies the difference, now I feel very free to express my feelings openly - I could never say, "I love you" to anyone but now, I feel it and say it to everyone, when I sign, "Love ya, Sally" it is not just a signature it is a statement and it comes from the heart.

I have finally learned to love myself for who I am and the people that I meet as Sally can feel that, in male mode for work no matter how hard I try friends are very hard to make because I am not at peace with myself.

You will have to do a little soul searching to see if you are projecting an "I'm better than you attitude" or if the MTFs that you have met are all that insecure - the second is quite possible because it seems that none of them even speak to each other.

In short (A little late for that Sally) you must love yourself not just accept in order to have a friend and you must be a friend before you can have one - reach out and keep trying at some point they just might accept the offer (so be careful to extend to people that you really want as friends).

Love ya,

Sally

(Remember, I mean that!)

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or if the MTFs that you have met are all that insecure - the second is quite possible because it seems that none of them even speak to each other.

Love ya,

Sally

(Remember, I mean that!)

This is very true.It took being unafraid to reach out for me to make friends with other ladies

and that took a couple of years.Some can't get past she is prettier than me,so I wont hang

around with her,mentality.For others it is insecurity with something about themselves.Or I am

so very out going and forward,and they are more reserved and don't like my style.But as with

most all women,there is a competition thing of who is prettier or has nicer hair.Why,who knows

it must be a woman thing.

Angie

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Ashley, hun----my thoughts are that most if not all MtFs have had to deal with a lot of rejection/discrimination and are likely to feel awkward socially and self-conscious. FtMs seem more socially resiliant and willing to put themselves out there, at least in my experience. Have you tried talking one on one with these women and putting it out there you'd like to hang out and be friends and then made a date (not a date-date) but you know what I mean---like a date to go shopping or meet for coffee.

I have a couple of on-line MtF friends and I love to be able to discuss women things, especially talking about men :rolleyes: I live in a rather isolated area 100+ miles from a metro area and there are no groups locally for us. Some of you might shudder at this but I put an ad on Craigslist to meet other transwomen--I know this can be risky, but I actually got a response from another transwoman who lives 30 minutes away from me. We have been emailing back and forth and agreed to meet for coffee in a public place later today. She wants help with her "look" which I love to do. (She has natural long blonde hair I am dying to fix for her!) We found we had things in common right off the bat---her mother was a high fashion designer and my mother was a runway model.

I have one t-girl friend and we have had fun shopping. She is tall and willowy and I love picking out outfits for her.

ricka

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Guest AshleyRF
So you just woke up one day and passed? You never went through an awkward stage in your transition? You have never been made?

The answer to your question might lie in the above statement.

Hugz,

Chrissy

Can't say that I have actually.. not that I was aware of anyway. I, for whatever reason, even prior to transition or even trying to present female was often taken for female. Have had that "problem" all my life actually. Why? I don't know.. Personally, I don't think I look feminine at all. My statement was not out of arrogance, just simply stating a fact.

Of course I went through an awkward stage in my transition. Unless you transition at 7, I'm pretty sure we all do. I'm not talking about ones who "just transitioned" here. I'm talking about ones who have been doing it for years.

I'm not the only one in this area that has brought this up. Several FtMs I know from here feel the same way about the MtFs. They talk about how you can't ever count on them for anything. You plan support groups and they show one month and you don't see them again for 6 months, then they all of a sudden show up again.

(this is exactly my point about 2 MtFs being friend... cattiness. We are all guilty of it. Myself not excluded. Rereading my post I can see how it could come across like that. And perhaps, depending on my mood at the time I wrote it, I might have even somewhat meant it that way.)

hugs

Ash

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Guest krisspykriss
Can't say that I have actually.. not that I was aware of anyway. I, for whatever reason, even prior to transition or even trying to present female was often taken for female. Have had that "problem" all my life actually. Why? I don't know.. Personally, I don't think I look feminine at all. My statement was not out of arrogance, just simply stating a fact.

Of course I went through an awkward stage in my transition. Unless you transition at 7, I'm pretty sure we all do. I'm not talking about ones who "just transitioned" here. I'm talking about ones who have been doing it for years.

I'm not the only one in this area that has brought this up. Several FtMs I know from here feel the same way about the MtFs. They talk about how you can't ever count on them for anything. You plan support groups and they show one month and you don't see them again for 6 months, then they all of a sudden show up again.

(this is exactly my point about 2 MtFs being friend... cattiness. We are all guilty of it. Myself not excluded. Rereading my post I can see how it could come across like that. And perhaps, depending on my mood at the time I wrote it, I might have even somewhat meant it that way.)

hugs

Ash

I believe you. Do you think maybe the other girls are jealous, or perhaps see you as someone who doesn't understand many of their issues because of this?

BTW, that was one of the was my comment could have been interpreted. I left it short, simple and open to interpretation for a reason. It was not meant to be catty, but I could see it being taken that way.

hugz,

Chrissy

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Guest AshleyRF
I believe you. Do you think maybe the other girls are jealous, or perhaps see you as someone who doesn't understand many of their issues because of this?

BTW, that was one of the was my comment could have been interpreted. I left it short, simple and open to interpretation for a reason. It was not meant to be catty, but I could see it being taken that way.

hugz,

Chrissy

I honestly don't know.. That's why I asked if maybe it was me. I still understand the issues.. Do you not think I'm insecure? Trust me, I am. I honestly don't believe that I pass and that I've just been fortunate enough that everyone I see every day is just being nice and when I leave they are like "OMG, that was totally a trans person". Basically, I don't think I draw attention to myself because I don't dress flashy or showy in any way... I just try to blend in and wear normal every day stuff.

I try to make myself approachable to others... at least I think I am anyway. The FtMs don't have a problem hanging with me. like I said, they seem to love me.

I was just unsure if it's like this with us MtFs everywhere or is it just a Mississippi transwoman thing.

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Guest Lizzie McTrucker
I honestly don't believe that I pass and that I've just been fortunate enough that everyone I see every day is just being nice and when I leave they are like "OMG, that was totally a trans person".

Wow, I'm the exact same way. :mellow:

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Guest Kassidy
My girlfriends are polar opposites,

Lauren is as girly girl as I am.We do the beauty salon,get pedicures,go shopping together all

the time.Sit around my place doing our nails or playing with our makeup and hair.While Sue

is a get it done kind of girl.Little makeup,doesn't like to mess with her hair,looks very nice in

her outfits,but could look so much better if she only allowed herself more time to girlify.

For her everything has to be done quick,while we like to take our time.

I am a lucky lady to have my friends.

Angie

forget someone angie?

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  • Posts

    • Heather Shay
    • Heather Shay
      Do you use make-up? If so, why and what  types?
    • Heather Shay
      Pride is primarily about yourself, even when it is not you who did something that you are proud about. You can also be proud of something someone else did, who you associate with, such as your children or your favorite football team. People can feel proud of their culture, their family name, or their appearance, none of which require them to actively contribute to the praiseworthy thing1. However, the opinions of others are of crucial importance, as best demonstrated when you purposefully do something that other people praise. Pride is a social emotion, and to feel proud, you need other people’s (real or imagined) confirmation that you have a reason to feel that way. Because of this, other people can also ‘be in your head’ and prevent you from feeling pride. Namely, what is praiseworthy is subjective. Things that may be considered good in a certain (cultural) group may not be praiseworthy in another (e.g., if you grew up in a family that greatly values academics, your athletic abilities may not evoke much praise). Moreover, what is praiseworthy is relative (e.g., if you are a good runner in an athletically average school, you may regularly feel proud about your times; but if you move to a school with highly competent athletes, these same times may seem unremarkable to you). Thus, the more exclusive your quality is in your surroundings, the prouder you feel. Pride has recognizable features. Although its static facial expression (typically a smile or laugh) does not clearly distinguish it from other positive emotions, it typically results in a bodily posture, gestures, and behavior that are clearly recognizable: lifting your chin, looking people in the eye, walking confidently, or in extreme cases, raising arms above your head. In a way, you try to make yourself larger and more noticeable, as if to say: ‘look at me!’ You may also exhibit more perseverance in your activities2. People generally find it very pleasant to experience pride, as it elevates our feeling of social self-worth and status3. At the same time, many social groups, religions, and cultures (especially those that are highly collectivistic, such as the East Asian or African culture) believe that pride needs to be checked. Unchecked pride leads to arrogance and misplaced feelings of superiority (‘letting something get to your head’, ‘hubris comes before the fall’), and social groups typically do not tolerate members feeling like they are superior or deserve special treatment.  
    • Heather Shay
    • Heather Shay
    • Heather Shay
    • April Marie
      Thank you @missyjo! You do wonders for my ego.   It turns out that pastel colors were the "thing" at Kentucky Derby Day so my dress was perfect. I went with white 5" heeled sandals and a wide-brimmed fuscia hat. Dinner and Mint Juleps added to the fun of watching the (recorded) festivities and races.   Perhaps, we'll repeat it for the Preakness in 2 weeks.   Right now it's just blue striped sleep shorts with pink flowers, a pink t-shirt and flip flops. I can't tell you how much wearing  sleep-rated breast forms at night has done to quell my dysphoria. 
    • April Marie
      I can still rock 5" heels.
    • April Marie
      Good morning, everyone!!   My wife and I had our yearly Kentucky Derby Day evening. Dresses, heels, hats, Mint Juleps and a light dinner while watching the festivities and races. Relaxing and fun. I think we'll do the same for the Preakness in two weeks.   It's rainy and cool here today so it's pretty much going to keep me indoors. Ahh, well. A day of rest.   Enjoy and be safe!!
    • Ladypcnj
      Thanks Sally Stone
    • KymmieL
      Thanks, Mindy. It has been so far. Tomorrow, work some more on the wife's grand monkey. Got the right side of the hood primed, just need to do a little more work on the left then I can prime it. Then a 600grit wet sand.   I promised the wife we would take out the bike this weekend.   Kymmie
    • JessicaMW
      During my last visit with my psychologist (who has agreed to provide required letters of recommendation along with a colleague to provide the second) we discussed the shift towards my wife's acceptance. It was a long discussion but one point I mentioned was how much the two of us sitting down and watching this documentary helped:  The Kings | A transgender love story (2017)
    • Betty K
      Oops, I did not mean to post that comment yet! I was going to also say, having read a mountain of commentary on the Review, I think Julia Serano’s response (linked by Vicky above) is the most accurate and thorough. You can also read a non-paywalled version at Substack: https://juliaserano.substack.com/p/the-cass-review-wpath-files-and-the   To me the three key areas in which the review is deficient are:   1. As has already been said here, its views on social transition;   2. Its attempts to give credence to the “ROGD” theory (without ever actually mentioning ROGD because presumably a canny editor knows that would be too transparently transphobic);   3. To me, most crucially, its claims about trans youth and suicide, which are dealt with summarily in about five pages and do not stand up to any deeper scrutiny.    I will be writing about each of these issues in isolation over the next few weeks and appearing on a radio show and podcast to discuss them late in the month. I will post links to these on TP later if anyone is interested.   All that said, I actually think it’s dangerous for us to respond with outright vitriol and condemnation to the review since, like any effective piece of disinformation, it does actually contain some factually based and even helpful recommendations. The Tavistock Gender Identity Service really was underfunded and understaffed and certain staff were not adequately trained. Trans kids really were funnelled away from mental-health support once they started gender-affirming care too. So yes, more investment in youth psychology services would help, as would a less centralised model of care, more training in treatment of trans kids, and more research.   One last thing for now: beware the claim that Cass ignored 98% of studies. That’s not strictly true. She seems to have taken other studies into account but leaned heavily on the 2% that met her standards. Nor does she ever claim that only randomised controlled trials are good enough evidence to justify the use of blockers for kids; just as with ROGD, she strongly suggests this, but is too canny to say it, because she knows such trials would be impossible. For now, I think the best response to this comes from the Trans Safety Network: “[…] we believe there to be systemic biases in the ways that the review prioritises speculative and hearsay evidence to advance its own recommendations while using highly stringent evidence standards to exclude empirical and observational data on actual patients. “ (https://transsafety.network/posts/tsn-statement-on-cass-final-report/)   To me, the scariest aspect of all this is that, if it follows Cass’s recommendations, the NHS will very likely follow Finland’s recent model of trans care, which seems to amount to a prolonged form of conversion therapy. I can’t find the link right now, which is probably lucky for anyone reading this, but I bawled my guts out reading the testimonies of kids who had been mistreated by that system. Truly horrific. To me, at least from my Australian perspective, the Cass Review is the most frightening development in trans rights in recent years. To me, the safe care of trans kids is THE number one issue in politics atm.   Ruth Pierce has a good summary of responses from trans folk and their allies sk far: https://ruthpearce.net/2024/04/16/whats-wrong-with-the-cass-review-a-round-up-of-commentary-and-evidence/    
    • Sally Stone
      Welcome to the wide, wild world of transgender, M.A.  It can definitively be overwhelming, but everyone here is amazing, so no doubt you'll get bunches of wonderful support. I think you'll be happy you found us.   
    • Sally Stone
      @Ladypcnj  This is so true.  I think all of us here have had a post or two that didn't get a response.  Sometimes, it's as simple as adding to your original to post for a clearer explanation, or re-reading what you wrote originally, and rephrasing it.  But don't despair, we aren't ignoring you.   Hugs,   Sally 
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