Revelation On Our Nature!

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Nww Orleans has an active GLBT organization - and it has a strong transperson support group. I have been fairly regular going to the meetings - I went a few days ago - We had a good turnout - three MTF - five FTM and then there were three who were non-trans (all women). Afterwards six of us went to eat.

We talked about breasts, the entire time - the natal women were giving advice, the FTM were saying how demeaning it is to bind and how poor the chest sugery can be, the MTF (all of us on HRT) were talking about the effects of progesterone - and ironically, how we als have to bind at work (two of us are not full out at work - the third is post op and in college).

BUT

I was in a room full of femaleness the entire time. FTM have been there, done that, and understand female ways and problems. There were NO NATAL MEN!

Going back to the beginning - I can remember only one time in all those meetings when a natal man was there - the father of the girl in college. He came to support her once. Her mother has come without him ever since.

SO

I feel transsexuality is all about women? - becoming one or leaving that life behind?

Where do the FTM get their suppost from natal men? We MTF have a huge base of female help!

Strange thoughts - at the table of six, no natal males - and we all had breasts (the two T-men have not had surgery).

At the table, the T-guys were full of testosterone - and were manly in many ways - but like we MTF were still on the journey.

BUT

The problem is, I hesitaste to relate my male experiences to them. It injures my self-image somewhat. So I am of little help.

WHERE ARE THE MEN?

We are such strange creatures, we transsexual.

Lizzy

[Guest ChloëC]

Lizzy,

This may not be all but I can think of two quick reasons - poor excuses when you get down to it, but unfortunately, are used.

'Real' men (as in hostile) would not want anything to do with those they deem different.

Most males who might care are also still in the closet; (see the thread on cross-dressing day to understand, for us it still has to be secret signs) feaful of being seen by those mentioned above as anything less then 'real' men. Sort of guilt by association.

The only male group I can think of who might show some consideration would be gay men who are comfortable with themselves. Funny thing there is, as SATC (the 4 new york women) seemed to suggest, gay men tend to empathize more with cisgendered women. Is that true in real life?

But these are guesses from 50+ years of trying to understand it all.

Tho, good for you for finding all that personal support.

Hugs,

Chloë

[Guest angie]

WHERE ARE THE MEN?

Lizzy

What a few of the guys have told is that they like being around the ladies.

We are so complimentary and understanding,reassuring them they are acting like men.

And my dear ladies,that they do like to hear,they are acting like the men they are.

Angie

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Very interesting obervation Lizzy.

I supposed that since most males are raised to be competetive, they would be less inclined to be supportive or cooperative. Although there are exceptions, they are few and far between.

As a result, one does not see many men in contexts like this.

Just my thoughts

Brenda

[Guest Elizabeth K]

It did cross my mind that women feel an empathy for the MTF as we are admitting by our actions that we understand - and seeming prefer to be women - we prefer our female mindset to our playacting as a male - and more importantly we so strongly want a 'life experience' as a woman.

We are attempting to join the girl's club? As a rule, they seem to welcome us as MTF.

As to the FTM, I suspect it's a different story. Most women somewhere in their life envy certain privileges a man has, and some are even very angry. But most women I know are very happy to be female. The FTM seem to be leaving the club, yet echo some of the desires women have for male prividges.

Interesting. No men usually - just a femaleness, either way

Lizzy

[Guest Zabrak]

[Guest AshleyRF]

My therapist and doctor are in New Orleans. Love it there.

Mississippi is full of transmen... hardly any transwomen or maybe we just hide well here.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Not Dr. F. as your therapist? Or Dr. C as your physician?

Lizzy

[Guest Liam]

I was in a room full of femaleness the entire time. FTM have been there, done that, and understand female ways and problems. There were NO NATAL MEN!

[...]

I feel transsexuality is all about women? - becoming one or leaving that life behind?

[...]

As to the FTM, I suspect it's a different story. Most women somewhere in their life envy certain privileges a man has, and some are even very angry. But most women I know are very happy to be female. The FTM seem to be leaving the club, yet echo some of the desires women have for male prividges.

Interesting. No men usually - just a femaleness, either way

Okay first of all, couldn't you make that same statement in reverse: "I feel transsexuality is all about men? - becoming one or leaving that life behind?" Saying that it's all about women somehow diminishes the experience of trans men, in my opinion, just as saying it's all about men would diminish the experience of trans women. Therefore, I think that's a problematic statement to make.

Also, I think a lot of trans men would resent your statement that being around FTMs is being around femaleness. Many (most?) trans men do not feel female at all, despite the fact that we inhabit female bodies. Trans men are men, not women. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if somebody said that being around you, an MTF woman, was being around maleness.

And I've received a lot of support from both men and women. I think it's unfair to say that FTM people don't get support from cisgender men, or that cis men don't feel comfortable giving support. Many do.

Finally, I won't speak for anyone else, but my desire to transition has absolutely NOTHING to do with a desire for male privilege. In fact, that's what held me back for so long. Ultimately, transition is something I have to do, but if I could transition without accessing male privilege, I would. Giving certain people privileges just because of their gender is stupid.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

OK all,

I think that this topic has touched on some nerves here. I do not think that there was any intent to desparage transmen in any way. If anything, the message was to try to understand a dynamic within the LGBT group described.

The topic meant no insult. Apologies to all who have been offended by this topic.

OK? We are all here to help one another with love and support.

There was no harm intended here. Only a mistake was made

Love to all

Brenda

[Guest Liam]

OK all,

I think that this topic has touched on some nerves here. I do not think that there was any intent to desparage transmen in any way. If anything, the message was to try to understand a dynamic within the LGBT group described.

The topic meant no insult. Apologies to all who have been offended by this topic.

OK? We are all here to help one another with love and support.

There was no harm intended here. Only a mistake was made

Love to all

Brenda

Sorry. I'm not angry, nor do I feel personally offended. I'm sorry if that came across in my post. Sometimes it's hard to convey emotions in text. Just wanted to point something out. I should have done so more carefully.

[Guest Zabrak]

I agree with Liam.

[Sally]

OK, I have read all of the opinions looking at them from both sides and slept on it (Short, unintentional nap in my evil chair) and have come to one simple conclusion.

We all post based on our own emotional view of any issue - sometimes it seems insensitive to the others and is to a degree, then we read each post with the same emotional bias but that is the problem with emotions and yet without them there can be no compassion or empathy.

How do we solve this?

Before hitting 'Add Reply' reread your post looking at it from a different perspective and see if it would offend you if you were an FTM or Androgynous member rather than as an MTF (that is from my view point - for Zabrak it would be MTF and Androgynous and for Mia - MTF or FTM and this did not include a cross dressers perspective and I am sure that they feel very offended by the all to often omission - unintentional but still omitted and certainly no less a member of our community).

I know that when we are responding we don't always take the time to do that but we need to slow down a bit and not work entirely off of emotion because remember hate is an emotion just as strong as love and that is how the people outside of our community gain support to rally the troops against us so be careful and do think about others when we post - it isn't all about any one of us, it is all about all of us from casual cross dressers* all the way to post op transsexuals, this is a gender spectrum that has no one more important position than another - remember that.

* I am not calling all cross dressers casual but we do need to address the ones who do not feel the need as often or as strongly because they to share the Gender Identity Disorder and therefore are an equal member in our community.

Please everyone, try to be understanding of everyone and their feelings, it won't be easy but then what is?

Love ya, each and every one,

Sally

[Guest Anhelanti]

Hmmm....well, to return to the main question being asked, and answer from my own personal experience:

In my old GSA our only straight ally was a guy, who became one of my closest friends. At the GSA I'm in now, there is, I believe one straight guy and two straight girls. Outside of GSAs, I feel that the people who have been most understanding and accepting of my transition are men. Both those who knew me before I came out (i.e., my bro and my dad), those who know me as trans, and those who know me (I believe) only as a guy have all accepted me as both as a male and as myself. I have actually had far more difficulty with the women in my life. They have been less understanding, more hurt by it - some have even taken my transition as a personal attack against them, and most of them still treat me as female. I've had more women slip up and "she/her" me than guys. Even girls who know me only as a guy don't quite treat me the same as other guys.

So, from what I have heard it does seem that there are fewer guys who actually go to LGBT groups - quite possibly because of the stigma that being associated with gay guys means you are gay - , but at the same time I think there are a lot of guys who are accepting and supportive.

Disclaimer: If none of this makes sense, I apologize; it's because it's nearly 7am here and I've been up all night D:

Nate

[Guest Elizabeth K]

OK all,

I think that this topic has touched on some nerves here. I do not think that there was any intent to desparage transmen in any way. If anything, the message was to try to understand a dynamic within the LGBT group described.

The topic meant no insult. Apologies to all who have been offended by this topic.

OK? We are all here to help one another with love and support.

There was no harm intended here. Only a mistake was made

Love to all

Brenda

Bernii - I appreciate the concern, but please don't apologize for me - that is my responsibility. I was simply trying to make an observation. I want to pull the entire TOPIC - but its a done deal - and it is too late. I don't understand why the observation of an event becomes an insult. But maybe that is my fault - perhaps it was my comments on the observation. I had hoped for feedback.

Instead I got anger.

I guess I will go eat worms.

As to the statement - 'Only a mistake was made' - I am the one that should be saying that.

I need to be shown what it was so it won't happen again.

Lizzy

[Guest julia_d]

Lizzy.. I know a transman from this site in real life. Now I'm so far post transition I can live comfortably with my knowledge gained over years of trying to fit in as a bloke that I can relate to the problems faced.. I saw it from the other side, that's a fact, but it's a fact I can live with.

The way I look at it is this. I pretty much know what being a bloke was about.. I walked the walk and talked the talk.. It was fake as I was all too aware, but as far as my peer group were concerned I was a man so bah boo!!

So where are the men?

I think lots of this comes down to the male psyche. The GM's are what they are.. a mixed bunch being men (or what ever variant of that they have created for themselves.. we are all fakes to a greater or lesser extent unless we are in the bath or something similar) who are making the most of their given equipment. As with any grouping of individuals by whatever criteria you care to stick on them there will be the exceptions to the generality, but across a large enough sample the generalisations will usually hold to be true. You will normally find the ones who will mentor and support already doing so in various organisations.. so by thgeir existence the organisations filter the few exceptions from the general masses. The exceptions may not be totally happy mixing with the rest of their peer group over concerns that something may slip out.. and we all know what that is like don't we.

Now we have to step back and look from outside for a moment... what's the main thing about being a bloke? .. oh yes.. I remember. Being emotionally tough and self reliant.. boys don't cry, and in the peer group being seen as sensitive and caring is almost a mortal sin (hahaha) .. So you aren't really going to find many step up and offer to support or to be a mentor. It's just not what guys do.

Of course that's going to upset the transmen.. but obviously it will because they have the opposite experiences from us girls, while at the same time the sensitivity understanding and compassion learned while trying to fit into the wrong role.

Think about it for a moment. I'm a woman.. I have always really been a woman, but I know a lot about men too because I learned how to be one totally passably.. now flip the coin..

I think some have a long way to go. I'm happy in a safe environment with people I trust to pass on what I learned about being a man. It doesn't conflict with my self image. I can't change the past and just denying something happened because it may be a little uncomfortable is yet another lie to yourself... haven't we had enough of lies?.. Is that not why we are all where we are right now?

I don't get why you were on the receiving end of that.. honest.. it's a fair question and I hope I have thrown some light in.

Paula P XD.. you can try and tear me down.. but even wigan pct haven't managed that yet, and they have been at it for 7 years.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I need to ask everyone to refrain from posting here. It is harmful to a portion of the membership. I do apolgise for puting this TOPIC out - I NEVER KNEW it would be controversial.

As some are complaining - and as the original author, I would ask your understnding as I want to close the TOPIC.

Lizzy