Extreme Statements

[Guest AlexanderG]

I keep on hearing/reading transsexuals say these things that I at this time feel aren't quite as extreme with me. Like,

"I am a man in a woman's body" / "I am a woman in a man's body."

- I want to be a man, but, well - AM I one?

"Give me transition or give me death"

- even if I wouldn't have paraphrased it thus, it's an extreme thing to say & I've heard it said.

et cetera.

It's one of those things where I put, at this time, question marks. Maybe I'm not 'the real thing' then?

Though I realize I may come to conclue these things in time, too. So this no to discuss my validity as trans (thnx for the term, Andy), but just to ask if you would say such 'extreme' things, or only 'moderately' so, and if you feel it's something all transes would say.

Alex

[Guest CJwar]

I know that before I knew I was trans...I didn't know what the word Transgendered meant. And how I found out was by googling, "Man trapped in a woman's body." Because that's how I've always felt.

I think if you're questioning...then you should talk to a professional to see if they can help you sort it out.

And if it's minor things, you have to remember that not every guy is super masculine. Men come in all sizes, shapes, and types. So just because you only see one type of male portrayal...and you're nothing like it, that doesn't mean that you're not a man. Just means that you're not -that- type of man. Be yourself...the rest will come.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

I keep on hearing/reading transsexuals say these things that I at this time feel aren't quite as extreme with me. Like,

"I am a man in a woman's body" / "I am a woman in a man's body."

- I want to be a man, but, well - AM I one?

"Give me transition or give me death"

- even if I wouldn't have paraphrased it thus, it's an extreme thing to say & I've heard it said.

et cetera.

It's one of those things where I put, at this time, question marks. Maybe I'm not 'the real thing' then?

Though I realize I may come to conclue these things in time, too. So this no to discuss my validity as trans (thnx for the term, Andy), but just to ask if you would say such 'extreme' things, or only 'moderately' so, and if you feel it's something all transes would say.

Alex

Even the orginal Give me liberty or give me death would be applicable, but the one I hear most often and the one I can relate to is the simple and brutal paradigm of transition or die. The Trans world is cut from abroad cloth and not all transfolk will feel the same angst, the same imperative to transition. If your dysphoria isnt that bad then congratulations; maybe it is only us older folk with decades of living in the wrong gender that get the drive so strongly. It doesnt make you anyless trans

I want to be a man, but, well - AM I one?

Like we say on one Lesbian board Im on, if that is how you wish to Identify then that is what you are. You have to identify that way so that it is right for you when the time comes to walk the trail to making that a reality.

[Guest SusanKG]

I've always not identified with the phrase "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body." I do strongly identify with the phrase "I should have been born a female, I wish I had been born a female", and always, but particularly in the past twenty years "want to be a female.!" I frankly (Don't call me Frank!) feel that the two positions are a difference without significance. Perhaps though, it means Transgender Light. I don't think so, but I also understand the possibility. Maybe it's a state of mind whether you are more male or more female or should be the other, but I believe it's more a state of soul, which does make it a state of mind, deep mind, whole mind.

SusanKG

[Guest yvonne]

I keep on hearing/reading transsexuals say these things that I at this time feel aren't quite as extreme with me. Like,

"I am a man in a woman's body" / "I am a woman in a man's body."

- I want to be a man, but, well - AM I one?

"Give me transition or give me death"

- even if I wouldn't have paraphrased it thus, it's an extreme thing to say & I've heard it said.

et cetera.

It's one of those things where I put, at this time, question marks. Maybe I'm not 'the real thing' then?

Though I realize I may come to conclue these things in time, too. So this no to discuss my validity as trans (thnx for the term, Andy), but just to ask if you would say such 'extreme' things, or only 'moderately' so, and if you feel it's something all transes would say.

Alex

Hi Alex,

These are great questions. I think it's important to stop looking at others and worry more about yourself. I don't believe people fit into such neat little categories, myself. Think about if you and I were discussing an object and I said it was green. There are so many shades of green, from so dark it's almost black to so light, it's almost white. Now you have an idea how many possibilities there are for transgender issues.

If I remember right, you're a young person and it's quite common for every single young person to experience confusion about "who they are" and what direction their life should take and I'm not even referring to gender issues.

There are literally people who truly feel they are both genders and freely express them at different times. Whatever brings you comfort.

I'm 62 and have had a lifetime of trying to sort this out myself. One problem we can have is our upbringing and how we were taught to see ourselves. I was taught to be a "man's man" and this caused great conflicts in my mind. My "desire to be a woman" was very strong and created serious conflicts for me that, for some reason, I was not able to resolve for years.

My advice for you is to ask yourself where do you feel most comfortable? Is there a gender role that you feel suits you and/or brings you inner peace?

It's not easy to find the answers to these seemingly simple questions, because our mind can trick us, as mine did for decades. It's very helpful to just talk things out with people who can allow you to talk freely and won't try to influence you one way or the other. That's one of the big values of participating here, as there's a wealth of people with all sorts of different experiences, but they all tie together.

I've also come to understand that gender conflicts can be so severe as to be harmful to you. In my case, my behavior in the last few years was becoming more and more the result of severe stress (over guess what?). I finally accepted my true identity (after I figured out what it was for myself) and the stress has all vanished, as if by magic. I'm a girl, I love being a girl and it's natural for me and this has brought me great peace.

So, in your case, keep asking questions, keep talking this out, stay open minded, don't feel compelled to find some neat little category to fit into and don't let others tell you "what's normal". As you sort this out, you'll start to have less conflict over it and it may take a while to do so. Remember that, early in our adult lives it's perfectly normal to be stressed out about settling our future direction, regardless of gender. So, add gender to the mix of confusion and the stage is set for a ride.....

One last bit of advice and that is to work very hard to find a trade or a career that you love. You need to make a living and going to a job every day that you hate is a fate worse than death (I've had to do that, too). Once the gender thing is resolved, that's great, now what? What do you do all day now that that's settled?

I've very lucky to have a career I love and that makes my life rich and full. That's where we all ultimately want to be, proud of ourselves. I'm a proud girl.

Best of luck in your pursuit,

Yvonne

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

I've always not identified with the phrase "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body." I do strongly identify with the phrase "I should have been born a female, I wish I had been born a female", and always, but particularly in the past twenty years "want to be a female.!" I frankly (Don't call me Frank!) feel that the two positions are a difference without significance. Perhaps though, it means Transgender Light. I don't think so, but I also understand the possibility. Maybe it's a state of mind whether you are more male or more female or should be the other, but I believe it's more a state of soul, which does make it a state of mind, deep mind, whole mind.

SusanKG

Extra anatomy not withstanding, I dont identify as male and maybe I havent been for all of my life, for me the imperative did become transition or die, no matter how you want to the container my soul was in.

[Guest yvonne]

Extra anatomy not withstanding, I dont identify as male and maybe I havent been for all of my life, for me the imperative did become transition or die, no matter how you want to the container my soul was in.

Joanna,

That's quite a thought and I'd not considered that alternative before.

In the last year, I've finally accepted my true identity, as I said above. I resolved to begin my journey. I first came out to my wife about 2 months ago. A few weeks ago, I began therapy as outlined by the Standards of Care. 12 therapy sessions were not needed for my Gender Therapist to determine that I was, in fact, a bona fide GID sufferer. She gave me my "letter" to recommend HRT on my 4th session. I made an appt. with the Dr. to begin treatment. I was on top of the world, my head was clearer than it's ever been.

At this point, my wife said she wouldn't go along with HRT, that she thought my main motive for HRT was to change my appearance. This immediately put my mind back into my state of conflict and my reaction was quite severe. I told my wife that I would die if I didn't get treatment. I believe that.

I would either die from taking hormones on my own, from a physical problem that would develop as a result of no medical supervision.

I would die from the stress of living a lie. The stress would either give me a heart attack or I'd simply develop some fatal disease as a result. This can be readily seen in powerful men who've lost everything and suddenly developed a fatal disease which killed them. Many men are healthy at age 65, retire and then they're dead within 6 months.

In my case, it is truly transition or die. It's that simple. After only one session, my therapist said that she couldn't believe I wasn't in a gutter somewhere or dead. The seriousness of my condition hit home with me. This is not a game, it's not a fad, it's not a phase, it's an incredible conflicting stress in my brain.

I told the wife that after 50 years of dealing with this that I was out of strength to do it any longer. I simply can't go on living the way I have. I'm dying a long, slow death of testosterone poisoning, just as surely as I'd ingested a deadly poison.

My wife finally understood and has given her OK. Things were pretty somber at our house.

The next day I began to recover and I'm back to normal now. I'm looking forward to seeing the Dr. in a few weeks and am again living with a clear head and a bright future.

To me, the HRT isn't for my physical appearance, it's for my brain. The physical part is simply a by-product, a side effect of the treatment.

I never meant for my comments to turn this dark, but it's the gospel truth and I don't have a choice.

Yvonne

[Guest Leah1026]

It's one of those things where I put, at this time, question marks. Maybe I'm not 'the real thing' then?

Though I realize I may come to conclue these things in time, too. So this no to discuss my validity as trans (thnx for the term, Andy), but just to ask if you would say such 'extreme' things, or only 'moderately' so, and if you feel it's something all transes would say.

Alex,

Whenever discussing anything transition related, remember this acronym:

YMMV

Your Mileage May Vary.

Your experience isn't any less valid, just different.

Don't worry sweetie, many have us have dealt with this problem. For years I believed all the negative stereotypes the media portrayed of us. And even after I started transition I still struggled with this very issue until I realized 1. Everyone is different and 2. Every step I took made me feel more and more alive. I haven't looked back since. You're normal hon. It would be unusual if you didn't have some doubts IMO.

[Guest Donna Jean]

Alex,

Whenever discussing anything transition related, remember this acronym:

YMMV

Your Mileage May Vary.

Your experience isn't any less valid, just different.

Leah has it (as usual!)

We are a part of millions of people on this big blue rock...

And "One size fits all" is a myth...it doesn't...

We are each an individual and maybe the stories are similar and cross in many places and that is why we put it all down here at Laura's so everyone can see what things apply to them..

The human does not come with a set of instructions and we learn as we go...

Honey....never discount the validity of your feelings because it doesn't "match ' up with other folks story or experience!

You're special!

LOVE

Donna Jean

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Hi Alex

For myself, I am a woman who happens to have a biologicaly male body (although very feminine body to my delight )

I do not have the attitude of Transition or Death. That is not my style. Death is never and option for me. I am transitioning at my own pace, and I feel comfortable with that.

Don't worry hon, just be yourself and you will find your way. You belong here, and you deserve answers to your questions.

The important thing here Alex is to feel good about yourself and be comfortable with yourself. The spectrum of transgender is infinite. There is an infinite ways to express your gender identity. All of which is just fine

Love

Brenda

[Guest N. Jane]

Well Sugar, few were as extreme as I was as a kid - I was SURE I was a girl (physical oddities not withstanding) and kept pushing the issue (in the 1950's) to the point where I was always in jeopardy of being committed to an institution (for being delusional) and medicated against my will and was forever being punished, pushed, threatened, berated, or bullied into trying to be a boy ... it was all about as successful as stuffing a dozen cats into a cardboard box! I escaped in 1974, certainly among the earliest SRS and my extremity was the main reason I escaped, because I was at great risk of self-harm or suicide and everyone knew it. I went on to live a happy and normal woman's life.

I would never EVER diminish any one else's validity because they didn't follow the same path I did! I would hope no one ever again has to walk on the edge of disaster to find their way!

You are YOU and that is all the validity you ever need! Follow your heart, find your own path, and be proud of who you are!

[Guest AlexanderG]

Like we say on one Lesbian board Im on, if that is how you wish to Identify then that is what you are.

I feel remarkably comfortable with the label of homosexual male. It makes me happy to think of myself as such.

Identifying / being identified as a woman I do not like.

That's two things that're clear.

I've always not identified with the phrase "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body." I do strongly identify with the phrase "I wish I had been born a female", and always, but particularly in the past twenty years "want to be a female.!"

Right - that's how I would describe my sentiment (with the genders reversed) Maybe it's also a process of realization?

My advice for you is to ask yourself where do you feel most comfortable? Is there a gender role that you feel suits you and/or brings you inner peace?

I don't want to sound stupid, but can you define for me what 'gender role' means?

One last bit of advice and that is to work very hard to find a trade or a career that you love. You need to make a living and going to a job every day that you hate is a fate worse than death (I've had to do that, too). Once the gender thing is resolved, that's great, now what? What do you do all day now that that's settled?

True, true. Gender identity search is not all there is to life. Right now I have graduation (though the final project is gender-identity-search-related), applications for new courses, and trying to get a job in the mean time on my program. Looking for what I want to do has been the other major theme in my life the past months. For now it's settled on applications for Writing for Performance & for Acting. Which are both things (writing & acting) which I've known I love alllll my life.

~

But I guess what I wanted to ask/raed/see/say was... to say you'd rather die than live on in your biological body is so gravely serious, yet so many people seem to say that. It's very... scary to think someday I might have thoughts like that too.

[Guest yvonne]

I feel remarkably comfortable with the label of homosexual male. It makes me happy to think of myself as such.

Identifying / being identified as a woman I do not like.

That's two things that're clear.

I don't want to sound stupid, but can you define for me what 'gender role' means?

~

But I guess what I wanted to ask/raed/see/say was... to say you'd rather die than live on in your biological body is so gravely serious, yet so many people seem to say that. It's very... scary to think someday I might have thoughts like that too.

Hi Alex,

You say you seem to feel most comfortable with the "label" of homosexual male. That's what I'd call a gender role--a role or place on the gender continuum where we live our lives. If you're comfortable with that, then stress over gender might be minimized.

In my case, I have a man's body, but a female mind that's been suppressed for years because that's not how I look. Wanting to be a girl and having to be a man has set up a serious conflict in my brain. It's caused nearly daily mental stress for me that's a real conflict.

I suppressed the desire, but it continues to push it's way out someplace.

When you thought I said "I'd rather die", what I believe I really said was "I will die" if I don't get treatment. It's not what I want and I'd NEVER take my own life and have never had those thoughts for any serious length of time. However, the conflict within me is so severe that a serious amount of hostility and stress has resulted. This has to be dealt with or it will manifest itself eventually in some form that just isn't good for me.

There's a good chance that the stress and hostility is directed at myself for not having acted to correct this situation all these years.

As it is, I'll soon get testosterone blockers to minimize the "T" and estrogen to feed my brain right and restore the natural brain chemistry I'm supposed to have. Just seeing all this coming in the near future has totally eliminated all the stress and cleared my head. I'm really alive and able to concentrate and focus like never before.

The fix for me is so simple and easy, there's no reason to postpone or delay it any longer.

So, for you, follow your heart and your head and don't be forced into being or acting like what others expect from you. Put yourself first and others second when it comes to your own gender feelings. If you're comfortable where you are now, then that may be the right "gender role" for you. We're all different.

I just tried to do what I thought was expected of me for too long and put off what I felt was right. That was the apparent source of the conflict, but I've fixed that now.

Best to you, I think you're on the right track.

Yvonne

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

I suppressed the desire, but it continues to push it's way out someplace.

When you thought I said "I'd rather die", what I believe I really said was "I will die" if I don't get treatment. It's not what I want and I'd NEVER take my own life and have never had those thoughts for any serious length of time. However, the conflict within me is so severe that a serious amount of hostility and stress has resulted. This has to be dealt with or it will manifest itself eventually in some form that just isn't good for me.

Yvonne, Sis, as usual youve hit it right on the head(OUCH). The death need not be physical, though for many it is, it can be mental or spiritual. I have said and continue to stick by the point that I would likely have been dead or confined to a mental hospital if I hadnt been allowed to transition. The anger, self hate, hatred of others, self loathing, depression and who knows what else were getting to the point that they were about to cost me everything. The options if I didnt transition were few and not pleasant.

[Guest AlexanderG]

Thnx everyone!!!

[Guest Martin]

There are a lot of trans people who do not transition to avoid death, but simply because it will make them happier. Of course, the transition or death thing is applicable to some. I was one of them. But that doesn't make me more trans than someone who didn't feel that way.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

There are a lot of trans people who do not transition to avoid death, but simply because it will make them happier. Of course, the transition or death thing is applicable to some. I was one of them. But that doesn't make me more trans than someone who didn't feel that way.

It is true that a generalization such as "transition or die" is not reflective of all members of the transsexual community but it seems to be an often enough voiced sentiment that it is indicative of a good portion of us. Like any community you cannot generalize about us and hope to be anywere near correct, although sometimes we do need to do so in order to make a point to someone who is not in the community. I find myself using the geralizations in much of my writing but they are always prefeaced by somthing that indicates that the sentiment is not indicative of the entire community such as this line from my essay Another Woman on the Sidewalk "For many of us it comes down to a simple paradigm that is cold in its simplicity and brutal in its reality "transition or die."

[Guest Camicochan]

Regarding the "woman in a man's body" idea, there is very strong evidence that transsexuality is based in one's neurology (hardwired, as opposed to psychology which is affected by environment). In that sense I do believe I am a female brain in a genetically male body. And because the brain is the most important organ in the body, I think this commonly cited phrase is applicable.

My memories of life before learning of trans issues and before transition were miserable. I had no direction, no place I fit in. Let's just say I fell into some bad stuff. When I think of that, and imagine growing up into a big hairy man, I believe I can honestly say I would choose death if I could not transition.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Regarding the "woman in a man's body" idea, there is very strong evidence that transsexuality is based in one's neurology (hardwired, as opposed to psychology which is affected by environment). In that sense I do believe I am a female brain in a genetically male body. And because the brain is the most important organ in the body, I think this commonly cited phrase is applicable.

My memories of life before learning of trans issues and before transition were miserable. I had no direction, no place I fit in. Let's just say I fell into some bad stuff. When I think of that, and imagine growing up into a big hairy man, I believe I can honestly say I would choose death if I could not transition.

The lack of place, lack of fitting in with either peer group, lying to yourself as to who and what you were; yes I can relate to all of that. I have read some of the studies which indicate what you are talking about, there are also others which indicate that a lengthened testosterone receptor gene may have some effect in some MTFs. It is nice to know that there is mounting scientific evidence that there is a genetic and hormonal compontent to our condition.

Woman trapped in the wrong body, not all would agree but to me that feels right for me.

[Guest Djeridoo]

Personally, I wouldn't use the words "man trapped inside a woman's body" to precisely describe how I feel. To me, I feel as though it is my body that prevents me from being who and what I truly am on the inside. What my mind, heart, and soul tell me what I am, but my body denies. Perhaps they are, in essence, the same thing, but human emotion and perception is so incredibly complex that to expect everyone to feel one way about something--and describe it just like everyone else--is a horribly limited expectation of human nature

When I was a young child I didn't think I was a boy, but I felt incredibly alienated by my body, or rather the "label" I had to live with because of my body. The label of "female" even if, while growing up, I was given at least some slack in terms of gender expression. But comments like "you need to wear girl clothes!" or "you should wear some makeup" or "you will look better if you grow your hair out long" stung me worse than any bee. I could not explain why, but I just did not want to. I wanted to be perceived as a boy, and that was that. Being called a "tomboy" was never good enough.

No matter how much I tried to fit into the female gender role, it just never worked out. I felt awkward, out of place, wrong. I saw girls being girls so naturally and that was something I never managed to achieve, no matter how hard I tried. After years of keeping up this miserable and painful charade, I discovered transsexualism, and a lightbulb went off in my head. So I brought it up with my current therapist--and he shot down the possibility, that my physical gender meant nothing and I was born in a female body because that was what was meant to happen. I felt deeply ashamed, to say the least, and buried all feelings regarding the possibility of transsexualism until just recently.

Now that I have discovered my gender role (pan-romantic male) I am more at peace with myself than I have ever been. There is still a lot of pain in my life, and many things I have to work out regarding my transition, but at least now I have discovered myself, discovered who I am.

As many others have said before me, you don't need to fill a clear-cut definition of "transsexual" to be transsexual. Some say they thought they were the opposite gender as a child, some say they feel as a "woman trapped in a man's body" or the reverse, some will say they just want to be the opposite gender (physically), but I think one thing holds true: there is some kind of dysphoria between what we are on the outside (be it our physical body or the labels placed on us because of it or any such thing) and who we are on the inside. What that actually means from person to person, and how each person expresses that and the severity of it, varies greatly. Not all transsexuals feel a need to transition physically, whereas for others (such as myself) transitioning is the only option. Some can come to terms with their born gender, others are driven to attempting suicide because of it.

[Guest nymphblossom]

Yvonne wrote:

To me, the HRT isn't for my physical appearance, it's for my brain. The physical part is simply a by-product, a side effect of the treatment.

I am in a very similar situation. Although I have a strong need to express my female self, it must be as a dual role that fits in with the life that my wife and I have spend 20 years building. The only reason I plan to begin HRT the first of the year to help me cope with my gender dysphoria.

Blossom

[Guest Eth]

Seeing as I've tried suicide and self-mutilation on several occasions, I think I'd have to go with "Give me transition or give me death".

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Yvonne wrote:

To me, the HRT isn't for my physical appearance, it's for my brain. The physical part is simply a by-product, a side effect of the treatment.

I am in a very similar situation. Although I have a strong need to express my female self, it must be as a dual role that fits in with the life that my wife and I have spend 20 years building. The only reason I plan to begin HRT the first of the year to help me cope with my gender dysphoria.

Blossom

I found that as soon as the antiandrogen took effect I calmed down and really started changing. The Estrogen has been, for me, more of getting my mind where it is supposed to be but some of the physical effects have been really interesting too(who says transwomen dont have cycles).

[Guest AlexanderG]

(who says transwomen dont have cycles).

It wasn't me.

Hm.

How long ago did I post this topic?

I'm starting to understand why one would say transition or die. Not sure that's a good thing. But I believe that if I'm serious about this the psychs will see that & I'll be allowed to. I just wish they'd call me for the friggin' first interview...