Full Stealth: Is It Even Possible

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Many times in our community you will hear discussion about living full steath, this implies that nobody knows your past. It meant hopping a bus to another town, perferably in another state, and starting your life all over again with no family, friends or other social safety net. Maybe at one time it was possible but these days with the interconnectedness of all the major government databases, and requirements for changing names and things like gender markers it would be nigh on impossible to do true stealth.

Most of us live in a world where only those who need to know, are informed about our past; but isnt this the way that the majority of the population lives? Where only a small circle of people around them knows the details of what happened, last year or when they were a kid? In short, to my mind, stealth means living your life like anyone else where the majority of the world doesnt care about who you used to be, and those who need to know already do.

I think the best we can hope for is to be accepted by society as a member of the gender we present and live like the rest. Not really worrying or caring what others might want to know because if it was their business to know then they already would. I go about my life doing what the other women around me do, working, shopping, paying my bills and all of the other things that everyone needs to do. Getting Ma'am, or hun, in the stores and other places and with nobody batting an eye.

Is this stealth? I think it is as close as we can get, disappearing into the day to day world of living.

[Guest Anna_Banana]

If you were to really go all-out, I think its possible. Obviously you'd have to go through the process of having all your papers sorted and changed first. Next you would have to move to a small town and take very low-key jobs. Nothing for major companies. Mom and Pop kind of stuff. More than likely you wouldn't be able to own anything major. You'd have to walk, ride a bike, or use mass transportation. You couldn't buy a house, so you'd have to rent from someone who doesn't mind being paid in cash and doesn't care for background checks.

There are truthful ways to live off the grid, but it isn't easy. Sometimes people really have to if they are victims of violence or are in-danger of being murdered. It's not the best life, but its something.

.Anna

[Guest yvonne]

If you were to really go all-out, I think its possible. Obviously you'd have to go through the process of having all your papers sorted and changed first. Next you would have to move to a small town and take very low-key jobs. Nothing for major companies. Mom and Pop kind of stuff. More than likely you wouldn't be able to own anything major. You'd have to walk, ride a bike, or use mass transportation. You couldn't buy a house, so you'd have to rent from someone who doesn't mind being paid in cash and doesn't care for background checks.

There are truthful ways to live off the grid, but it isn't easy. Sometimes people really have to if they are victims of violence or are in-danger of being murdered. It's not the best life, but its something.

.Anna

I think this whole topic is a little overblown and many of these things under-researched.

From Joanna's standpoint, she's right--many people out there have something about them that they want kept quiet and have to live with it. A personal bankruptcy, a conviction of driving while impaired, a divorce, being tossed out of a church membership, a job loss, a house loss, having a car repossessed are each things that are serious in nature AND can be permanently on your record. You can outlive all these things just by being a good citizen and doing things you're supposed to do, in other words, go about your business and live your life. Eventually, all this stuff "drops off your record", even though it's still there, it just takes a lot more digging to find.

Anna, there's a lot of ways to do the things you say can't be done. Home ownership--easy. Find someone with property who wants to sell it on a "land contract" directly to you. If you've saved up a proper down payment, you can buy a house that way. It's done every day and I know people who've done it. Buying a car is no big deal, either. I haven't financed a car in 17 years.

There are tons of employers out there who don't go through that stringent of background checks, so working isn't that big a deal, either. It may surprise you to learn how much can be earned working for "mom and pop" businesses and how big one of those businesses can get. I've worked for a number of them and been in hiring positions. I've hired quite a few people and found a few things on background checks that have been quietly ignored because the person had great qualifications for the job.

In fact, some of the top performers in the sales field all come with a lot of baggage and so do many in the arts. It's just who they are and nobody really cares because they do so well in difficult fields.

What it looks like it really comes down to is what Joanna said--can you expect to live a normal life, accepted as who you are? I think the answer is a resounding YES.

Maybe you think you'll look funny. Read the magazines at the checkout--every one of them has some article for women on how the woman can improve something about herself. These are aimed at natal women--they all think there's something about themselves that should be improved. So do you. Well, welcome to womanhood. Even runway models want to change something.....

The reality is that if you want to fit in and you believe you can fit in, you CAN fit in.

I've read the contributions of many such women on this site who are perfectly happy being the woman of their dreams every day. They give me hope for my own future and help me dream.

If you can dream it and believe it, you can do it. I've accomplished far too many things in my life that were seemingly impossible using that exact strategy. I know it works--I believe it.

Your Forum Cheerleader,

Yvonne

[Guest Anna_Banana]

Your response confuses me. The body of it essentially agrees with my point, that yes, you can live off the grid and be in full stealth. But the tone of your response suggests you were in disagreement with me. I'll concede the fact that I didn't take into consideration people selling their houses "under the table."

Joanna suggested that you can't quit reach full stealth, which I disagreed with. The tone of your response suggested you agreed with her but the actual text said you disagreed. You've got me all sorts of puzzled.

.Anna

[Guest AshleyRF]

possible? Probably. Worth the trouble and effort? Not in the least. It's bad enough just worrying about the people I work with on a day to day basis finding out. Imagine having to do that with friends or even worse, I potential life partner. YIKES!!!!

[Guest April63]

I think you can still live in stealth even if a few people know. Like if the bank knows from when you set up your account. I don't think that's a big deal. You don't interact with the bank people on a daily or weekly basis. Or the person you bought your house from. I don't think it matters if these people know. You're in stealth because the people you interact with don't know, and they don't guess that you're not genetically the same gender.

[Guest Melisa]

possible? Probably. Worth the trouble and effort? Not in the least. It's bad enough just worrying about the people I work with on a day to day basis finding out. Imagine having to do that with friends or even worse, I potential life partner. YIKES!!!!

I have to say Ashley I don't know were you're comming from. Why would it be to much work? I plan to dissappear myself after everything is done and over with so to speak ( It seems I just replied to and gave all my reasons for my decission to just disappear in an article almost similiar to this, only about 20-min. ago.) Anyway if I just disappeared and no one knew who I was, why do you say it would be that hard to live in stealth?

Melisa

[Guest yvonne]

Your response confuses me. The body of it essentially agrees with my point, that yes, you can live off the grid and be in full stealth. But the tone of your response suggests you were in disagreement with me. I'll concede the fact that I didn't take into consideration people selling their houses "under the table."

Joanna suggested that you can't quit reach full stealth, which I disagreed with. The tone of your response suggested you agreed with her but the actual text said you disagreed. You've got me all sorts of puzzled.

.Anna

Sorry, Anna,

I just sort of took off there. I'm agreeing it's possible to live "off the grid", so to speak. I'm disagreeing that it has to be a difficult life or a life lacking some or many material things. Buying a house on a contract from an owner is no "under the table" sale. There's a time and a place it makes perfect sense for a property owner to sell it that way. Many small businesses are sold the same way, by a successful owner at retirement age who wants to convey the business to someone who works for them to enhance their retirement benefits, as opposed to a liquidation sale.

Regarding "full stealth" vs "semi-stealth" may even be a silly thing to discuss, anyway. The idea is that you're accepted in the gender you've chosen and no one questions your background. I'd call that stealth, even if a very few people knew.

If that's your definition of "full stealth", then I guess we agree. Live and work as the person you want to be without getting hassled about it from others.

However, and this is very important, there are always going to be people everywhere who desire to hassle others, regardless of gender issues. Every neighborhood has one and every workplace has one. Most places seem to have more than that. They just never learned how to play nice with others.

So, if they're not hassling you about your gender, they'll just come up with something else they can do to try to make your life miserable.... The best thing to do is ignore them and get on with your life.

Yvonne

[Guest Anna_Banana]

I have to say Ashley I don't know were you're comming from. Why would it be to much work? I plan to dissappear myself after everything is done and over with so to speak ( It seems I just replied to and gave all my reasons for my decission to just disappear in an article almost similiar to this, only about 20-min. ago.) Anyway if I just disappeared and no one knew who I was, why do you say it would be that hard to live in stealth?

Melisa

It can be very difficult if you have something you are holding onto, such as friends or family. If you have nothing, it won't be too difficult to walk away and not look back.

.Anna

[Guest AshleyRF]

I have to say Ashley I don't know were you're comming from. Why would it be to much work? I plan to dissappear myself after everything is done and over with so to speak ( It seems I just replied to and gave all my reasons for my decission to just disappear in an article almost similiar to this, only about 20-min. ago.) Anyway if I just disappeared and no one knew who I was, why do you say it would be that hard to live in stealth?

Melisa

Because that means you don't have any current friends or family that care enough about you or that you don't care enough about them to let them know what's happening to you and that's just kind of sad. I really hope you have friends and family that care about you and that you care about enough to not do something like that to them. I love having my family and friends in my life, even the ones who knew the old me. I almost did exactly what you are talking about doing and realized that I couldn't do that to my family and friends. They deserve better than that.

[Guest AshleyRF]

It can be very difficult if you have something you are holding onto, such as friends or family. If you have nothing, it won't be too difficult to walk away and not look back.

.Anna

Exactly my point. It would be really sad (even though I know there are cases out there where this is the case) that someone would have no one who cared about them or that they cared about enough not to just disappear on them. I just couldn't imagine the hell that my family and friends would have gone through if I had done that. To not know what happened to a loved one... if they are alive or dead or suffering or whatever.... that would be horrible.

[Guest AshleyRF]

And if you are not planning on telling a future spouse... well that's just a completely different problem within itself. What happens when they wake up and figure it out over the years? (and they most likely will unless they have the IQ of a brick) Some of us do pretty well for ourselves but hiding something this huge for half a lifetime? Seriously? The odds of it never becoming an issue are slim to none and IMO it shows a selfish side of a persons nature to do this to another human being. By lying to them, you would just be adding fuel for a future fire that would be sure to burn you. I wish anyone who is going to attempt this all the luck in the world and I really feel sorry for the spouse you are not honest with. (and for you if they ever do find out... chances are they won't take it well and it's when WE lie to sexual partners that gets a lot of us hurt) I have a beautiful (single) transgirl friend who passes perfectly and when she meets a new guy, she's totally up front with them right from the start. She has never been hurt by any of them. Some stay and continue to date her, others walk away, but none of them hurt her. I bet their reaction would not be so kind if she lied to them and told them after they took the dating to the next level.

[Guest angie]

Exactly my point. It would be really sad (even though I know there are cases out there where this is the case) that someone would have no one who cared about them or that they cared about enough not to just disappear on them. I just couldn't imagine the hell that my family and friends would have gone through if I had done that. To not know what happened to a loved one... if they are alive or dead or suffering or whatever.... that would be horrible.

My best friend is one who read and followed the TSRoadmap to the letter.

Moved to a new state,divorced or wife,gave up her parental rights to her only child,even changed

her last name,just so that she can go stealth.I befriended her originally because I knew the pain she was inviting so willingly into her life.I suffered through years of intense lonilness,especially during the holidays.I could not see her having to endure what I had,not while I was there for her.

She is trying mightily to go stealth and I wish her the best. But I love my girls,all three of them,

and my siblings and dear friends too.To disappear is just not in my cards,I would rather have the love and support,then to be an anonymous woman all alone in this great big world.But that is just my choice.

Angie

[Guest julia_d]

True stealth is much harder than people think. After 10 years when all state tax records in your old identity vanish (except to government) you become a person who just "sprung into existence" as there are no previous records of who you were or what you can do or have been... unless you want to out yourself all the time.

In some situations that means accepting the bad end of the deal.. every time. I am stuck in a place now where it is impossible to do almost anything, because I can't prove who I am any more. Forced into the black economy to survive, it's not a safe or secure lifestyle.

[Guest Sherry7620]

Does this stealth make it easier or harder to find good job?

[Guest Melisa]

Does this stealth make it easier or harder to find good job?

It's as easy or as hard just as it is for any other women, becuase stealth means that you are a total women, and no one would ever even guest that you used to be a man. Of course you have to make sure you have all you past paperwork, etc. all taken care of with in regards to your name change and all. Even then with some jobs they will do a background check. It won't be easy, but with some creativity, etc. you could overcome or even conceil your background checks.

Love

Melisa

[Guest Melisa]

It's as easy or as hard just as it is for any other women, becuase stealth means that you are a total women, and no one would ever even guest that you used to be a man. Of course you have to make sure you have all you past paperwork, etc. all taken care of with in regards to your name change and all. Even then with some jobs they will do a background check. It won't be easy, but with some creativity, etc. you could overcome or even conceil your background checks.

Love

Melisa

Sorry I forgot to add

Of course walking around in stealth is not possible until you are fully trasitioned; it would be possible before the actual SRS is done, but everything else has to be taken care of as in regards to your transitioning. So if your asking about getting a job right now before transitioning, I don't know I'm having a hard time with that myself.

[Guest AshleyRF]

It's as easy or as hard just as it is for any other women, becuase stealth means that you are a total women, and no one would ever even guest that you used to be a man. Of course you have to make sure you have all you past paperwork, etc. all taken care of with in regards to your name change and all. Even then with some jobs they will do a background check. It won't be easy, but with some creativity, etc. you could overcome or even conceil your background checks.

Love

Melisa

Steath means that you are a total woman? And anyone who isn't full stealth isn't? Really? Interesting statement. I think many here would highly disagree with you on that one. I am a total woman and I'm not full stealth. I have many friends and family members who know my past but they now totally accept me as the woman I AM. As for the general public. I don't think anyone has any clue about my past. If they do, no one has ever let on that they do and the few people that I did end up having to tell were completely shocked and said they had no clue and would have never guessed.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

It's as easy or as hard just as it is for any other women, becuase stealth means that you are a total women, and no one would ever even guest that you used to be a man. Of course you have to make sure you have all you past paperwork, etc. all taken care of with in regards to your name change and all. Even then with some jobs they will do a background check. It won't be easy, but with some creativity, etc. you could overcome or even conceil your background checks.

Love

Melisa

I disagree, I live my life as a woman and 99.9% of society doesnt know about my past and frankl doesnt care. Steath, to me, is the ability to just disappear into real life. Kind of hidden in place, the ability to go through life the way the rest of society does with only a few knowing about my full life.

[Guest N. Jane]

Having been kicking around this ol' world a long time, I've been everywhere (too quote an old song) including total stealth and I have to say that total stealth is a very fragile glass curtain. It WILL break, sooner or later, and when it comes crashing down what people see will depend on how you have integrated/assimilated into your chosen role and how big a deal you make of it when the glass breaks.

When I was newly minted (1974) I didn't even think about "stealth" - I was just a young woman out to discover life and make her own way. I never thought of myself as anything other than a woman, no asterisk, no hyphen, just a very naive and repressed young woman who had a lot to learn. And I learned. What the world reflected back to me was largely how I saw myself, actually more flattering and positive than my own self image. Was that "stealth"? Probably, but I didn't think of it as such - it was just ME.

Years went by, I moved a few times (following love interests or better jobs), married, and was living in a quiet rural town when my glass curtain was shattered (by a leak from a medical clinic). I was aware that something was up by a sudden shift in the way a few of my old casual friends treated me but I ignored the rumours and nobody had the guts to ask me outright. Fortunately my husband knew of my childhood because he WAS asked .... his response? "100% woman!" with an evil smirk ..... and the rumours died out in a few months. About a year later I asked a friend (a straight male who grew up in this community) about people's reaction to the rumours and his summary was that people dismissed the rumour as implausible - they knew me only as a woman, a bit eccentric but just a woman. Their image of me had been formed over years of day to day living and they saw nothing incompatible with "woman".

The only state that is maintainable long-term is one of truth and fact but YOU determine how people see you by how you live and conduct yourself. If you are a woman, know you are a woman, and lead a woman's life, that is how the world will see you.

My tag-line on another site is "That which is inconsistent with the senses can not be maintained" - think about it!

[Guest krisspykriss]

If you were to really go all-out, I think its possible. Obviously you'd have to go through the process of having all your papers sorted and changed first. Next you would have to move to a small town and take very low-key jobs. Nothing for major companies. Mom and Pop kind of stuff. More than likely you wouldn't be able to own anything major. You'd have to walk, ride a bike, or use mass transportation. You couldn't buy a house, so you'd have to rent from someone who doesn't mind being paid in cash and doesn't care for background checks.

There are truthful ways to live off the grid, but it isn't easy. Sometimes people really have to if they are victims of violence or are in-danger of being murdered. It's not the best life, but its something.

.Anna

Honey, from my excperiences in small towns, that is the last place to go stealth. People know way to much about everyone. Everyone knows your name and/or face. People share information (gossip) and start putting things together.

Getting lost in the masses is the way to go. If someone finds out your secret, they are there one moment and gone the next.

hugz,

Chrissy

[Guest Kayliegh]

I am torn on this subject - being in the legal field, I think my “second career” will be assisting those like us – if I am in stealth mode, then what am I doing? Living a lie to help folks like me?

In order for the “world” to accept us, we need to be a voice; in unison. While I can understand wanting to be just a “normal female,” I think that being together, a united front, will ultimately lead to acceptance.

We have all read about the inaccurate figures in trying to “decipher” TG’s – do we want to continue to add to that confusion or do we want to “move things along?”

My two cents (and with that and $4 more you can get a cup of coffee at Starbucks! ;-) )

Kayleigh