Being Different

[Guest viv]

Hi All,

Like to ask a question. Were we born with our female traits or did we subconsciously adopt

em as we went through life a Transsexual. I know a little about the womb "stuff" where we

*became* Trans. but what about our emotional selves. I have read too many posts here about

crying , Trans women cry as much (or want to) as GG"s pre hrt, we feel awkward around men

as in not fitting in , our decision making I would claim , has raised an eyebrow or two in mens

circles. To say all this is cos we are Trans is too simplistic imo. My opinion is this, there is a lot

more to us than the Docs know . When I was no more than a baby ,say 5 y/o , I can distinctly

remember wanting to wear my sisters dresses ,and did , I wanted to be like my sister.Where

in Heavens name does a 5 year old child get those ideas/feelings from, again imo, we are

almost girls . I have never heard of a huge breakout of normal run of the mill boys wanting to

wear their sisters clothes , it just does not happen.I firmly believe we almost got there ,we

were almost born natal girls -we just got boys bodies/girls minds. Any one agree, do I need a

lesson in whats what ?? luv,viv

[Guest ChloëC]

Well, viv, yep, yep, yep, and yep. except I didn't have any sisters until I was 10 and then I was much too big to even consider their clothes, but as I've said before, I can remember distinctly at 4 or 5 I had my mother make me a dress, so I'm pretty sure those feelings were around way before that, I just wasn't old enough to put them into some kind of meaningful context until then.

Right now, I'm torn between thinking it (THE MOMENT!!!) was some moment in that cell merging, division, or developing that something 'different' happened, like maybe too much or not enough something else, or something like that; and the other possibility that as I'm beginning to believe, we all have certain gene combinations that make us more, oh, let's say susceptible to certain things - good and/or bad - and we just happened to get the one that was for tg.

And both possibilities allow for the rather infinite diversity that we all experience. Maybe we got different amounts of that too much or not enough something, or maybe the genes because of everything else involved came together just slightly differently for each of us.

And, you know, about doctors, even though this is all about 'SEX', I just don't think it's sexy!!! enough for serious research - or researchers are for the most part probably squeamish about something like this.

Hugs

Chloë

[Carolyn Marie]

Good topic, Viv. I think that we were girls, and recognized that fact emotonally and psychologically,

way back when we were little kids. Its just that we had to supress it and disguise it in order to fit

into our male roles. Little kids know that you never want to appear different. Its a survival tactic.

Its easier (relatively) these days than when we were girls, as there is much more known today about

TG issues than was known when I was a child, teen and young adult. It was hard to find useful

information even in the university research library back in the 70's,

So, to answer your question, yes I think we were born female, and if allowed to express it fully,

we would have developed as female when were were children. If only...right? Right.

Carlolyn Marie

[Guest Nelly]

Hi,

I also had that situation. Surrounded with a brother it took some time until I send a request for a skirt to my mum. When we get new neighbours with a doughter in my age, I play a lot with her and my dream was to wear her swiming suit. We bove had similar clothing, only the suit were different in that time. Why do I want it? I do not know. Somebody here wrote in a different thread that girls learn to be girls from other girls. So I think we have a switch in our brain that setup the source of information we want to use for learning. Normally boys learn from men and girls from women. In our case it is different.

Greetings

Nelly

[Guest Donna Jean]

Interesting, Viv......

A while back a grilfriend complimented me for the "Work" that I had done on my female mannerisms...

I thought "What?" I haven't worked on anything ....

That kind of got to me because I realized that many things were in me all along and I had covered them to blend in male...the posturing...that I practiced...That did not come natural to me....I had to work at it....

So many male things I had to work at...while anymore the feamle things are coming to me as easy as can be....

I think I'm beginning to see something here...................

Donna Jean

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Interesting, Viv......

A while back a grilfriend complimented me for the "Work" that I had done on my female mannerisms...

I thought "What?" I haven't worked on anything ....

That kind of got to me because I realized that many things were in me all along and I had covered them to blend in male...the posturing...that I practiced...That did not come natural to me....I had to work at it....

So many male things I had to work at...while anymore the feamle things are coming to me as easy as can be....

I think I'm beginning to see something here...................

Donna Jean

For me becoming who I was (does that make sense) wasnt a matter of working on my femaleness. I was, after all female inside, it was a matter of undoing my male facade and like a butterfly emergig from its chrysalis emerging as the woman I should have been all those years ago.

[Guest brenda lee]

Hi All,

Like to ask a question. Were we born with our female traits or did we subconsciously adopt

em as we went through life a Transsexual. I know a little about the womb "stuff" where we

*became* Trans. but what about our emotional selves. I have read too many posts here about

crying , Trans women cry as much (or want to) as GG"s pre hrt, we feel awkward around men

as in not fitting in , our decision making I would claim , has raised an eyebrow or two in mens

circles. To say all this is cos we are Trans is too simplistic imo. My opinion is this, there is a lot

more to us than the Docs know . When I was no more than a baby ,say 5 y/o , I can distinctly

remember wanting to wear my sisters dresses ,and did , I wanted to be like my sister.Where

in Heavens name does a 5 year old child get those ideas/feelings from, again imo, we are

almost girls . I have never heard of a huge breakout of normal run of the mill boys wanting to

wear their sisters clothes , it just does not happen.I firmly believe we almost got there ,we

were almost born natal girls -we just got boys bodies/girls minds. Any one agree, do I need a

lesson in whats what ?? luv,viv

Viv , Sweetie ,I too have felt that way since childhood. It seems that we all have to carry some extra baggage for the way we were born. I still remember always wanting to play with girl toys and not boy stuff. I still don't fit in with guys very well.LOL Brenda Lee

[Guest ChrisRydia]

Good question, I guess which parent was there when you were growing up. My mom was around but my dad was not. But this just occured to me, we could have the female traits in our mind. Waiting for the perfect opportunity. Which I cannot figure out why I think like a girl?

[Sakura]

this will really bake your noodle from the moment we are concived to about 2 months in the womb we are genetically female then a gentic marker is introduce which either keeps you female or signals your body to begin to change male i think that when that changes happens some things dont switch all that way over

when i was 4-5 my mom let me openly dress in girl clothes mostly clothes my sisters had out grown around 6 she stopped for variouse reasons but then started trying to reinforce that i was a boy i remember back then feeling normal then when then forced to be a boy the devision in my mind began i started trying to tuck at 6 anything that would hide my genitals * what 6 year old even comes up with that * and sneaking my sisters clothes and feeling fear shame and embarassment the feeling that i was right and wrong at the same time

but then over time it becomes so infinately reinforced that your male, that you simply become complacent and begin to accept that this is what you are no matter how much you wish not to be

Sakura

[Guest Eth]

This is my understanding on it based on several different articles involving transgender research that I read. Some of it is speculation of my own, though, but it's mostly just putting the pieces together.

There was a study done in which the bodies of - I believe it was 6 - transgender women were taken and the brains were removed and studied. Something interesting was discovered, where they examined the brains and found that their measurements were even more feminine than natal female brains.

I believe it was the hippocampus (or was it the hypothalamus? I'm sorry I might have those two confused) where natal female's had them at 60% of the size men did. The transgender women on the other hand, at them at 50% of the size. They also found that the corpus collassum was very developed in the transgender womens' brains, just like in natal females'. The corpus collassum is the part of the brain that connects the two halves and allows for information to travel quickly between the two sides. Women have language centers on both sides of the brain, which is why they tend to have better language skills (in general).

In Australia, a study was done with hundreds of subjects, (over a thousand, actually), consisting of transwomen, transmen, genetic men and genetic women. They found a lot of interesting things during this study, one of which was that transwomen had longer Androgen Receptor Genes than genetic men. They believe that this gene may have been part of what made them transgender when they were being developed in the womb.

I would imagine that, for some reason, the longer Androgen Receptor Gene was developed very early in the process of the fetus' development. Since the Androgen Receptor Gene obviously has to do with the fetus' receptivity to Androgens (male hormones such as testosterone), then perhaps the longer Androgen Receptor Gene results in Androgens being received to a certain extent - enough to masculinise the body - while the brain was not very responsive to the Androgens at all? In fact, what if the brain was almost entirely immune to the Androgens introduced to the body? If that were the case, wouldn't that explain why the transwomens' brains were "more feminine" than the natal females' brains? Androgens play a part of the development of both men and women, so if the transwomen's brains were especially unresponsive to Androgens, could that perhaps result in a "hyper-feminine" brain? One almost completely absent of masculine development caused by Androgens?

Now, in your post you said you "know a little about the womb stuff, but what about our emotional selves?" and I just have to ask: Well, why wouldn't the 'womb stuff' cause us to have these emotions? I mean, I honestly think that all of our consciousness and who we are is part of the brain, or at least the electrical signals surrounding it, or both. Either way, the consciousness isn't just something that floats nearby. So if our brain develops a certain way, doesn't that define who we are? If you think about it like that, then it makes sense that we're "designed" to respond and react to certain instances and situations in a particular way. So if we develop these female brains, then doesn't that mean we're "designed" to have female feelings and emotions?

-Eth

[Guest N. Jane]

There is considerable clinical research in the past 8 years (or so) on gender and gender development that isn't widely publicized outside of medical circles because it is not "politically correct" to point out inherent gender differences but this information is considered to be important in the assignment of gender in Intersex cases. Radiological studies have shown functional differences in the way female and male brains process information and other studies show differences in responses between male and female as early as the first days of infants. The current belief is that the patterns are set by androgen exposure during gestation and that the higher the exposure, the more likely a male identification. Other studies on child development show considerable differences in the way children respond to situations based on gender.

Based on the most current understanding, the degree of masculinization or feminization is largely set by the first few weeks post-partum with further changes post-puberty based on the body's hormone production.

[Guest ChloëC]

"that transwomen had longer Androgen Receptor Genes than genetic men."

"patterns are set by androgen exposure during gestation and that the higher the exposure, the more likely a male identification"

I haven't read anything particular about transgender studies in at least 20 or more years, mostly because I realized there wasn't much I could do about it, and I was finalizing my decision as to how I wanted to live the rest of my life. But, just reading about genetics as well as the introduction of some drugs into pregnant women, got me thinking that either/or was possible in our cases (and I guessed it wouldn't have to be one of the bad drugs like Thalidomide, it could be something thought benign, but not necessarily). Or maybe both. The one thing I did know, it couldn't be a learned behavior, I was too young, and people who try to make it that, are lazy or ignorant.

Just read a lot, put things together, have Robert Redford's character in '3 Days of the Condor' as a role model.

Chloë

I love this site.

[Guest viv]

Hi Ladies,

Thanks re your replies, I found them very informative . The more I delve into

our "condition"the more Im convinced there is so much more to same. Take what Sakura

( hope you dont mind hun) had to say about wanting to hide her genitalia at 6 years of

age, I wore my sisters clothes at about 5 and wanted to be the same as her . I would

be willing to bet my last cent every one of us experienced similar. Now folks, lets not

forget , we are talking about young children . I believe our subconscious brain ""knows"",

as I put it earlier , that we almost made it , we almost became girls. How else do we

explain our childhood **differences** . As N.Jane said , there has been work done

re our condition but the results are not widely made known. WHY NOT?.

We ,as human beings, should be kept up to date about our Transsexuality . I hope to

live to see the day when our condition is put beside all other medical problems in

med. dictionaries , that we are treated NO DIFFERENTLY to anyone else presenting

with a problem. Thanks again, Luv, viv

[Sally]

Well Like Donna Jean, I have not worked on my feminine gestures or walk but at my size I have got to be doing it right somehow in order to pass at all and I have had no trouble.

The only place that anyone has ever referred to me as male when presenting female was at a trans clinic where he was new and didn't know any better, being a lady I did not ma'am him.

I do believe that so many of us work too hard on trying to pass while we are so inherently female from birth that all we need to do is let go and we will be ourselves.

I put on men's clothing and the act begins - I am so different but I get into my house and male clothing or not doesn't matter I am me.

Sometimes when I look down at my keyboard while I am typing and I think "she has pretty hands", that she is me and my fingers have a very graceful curve that I didn't notice back in the day, of course the long nails do help but it is the movement and positioning that seems so feminine.

I do believe that we all missed our calling - we were born to be thespians (that's thespians not necessarily lesbians).

Playing a character so successfully for over 55 years ever since I can remember and now no one I have told believes me because they saw no signs - well DUH!

That was the whole point but now it is so hard to get them to believe me.

One day, I'll just walk in wearing my best dress and heels and see if they get it then.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest kennerzzz]

Women have language centers on both sides of the brain, which is why they tend to have better language skills (in general).

That explains my A+ in spanish, but what about the C in English? Haha just messing with you.

When I was young I'm sure I had the same feelings already expressed by others on this topic - I wanted to be a girl. I felt suuppeerr awkward around men. I sorta learned to get over it, but seriously, ladies - the women's bathroom is a beautiful thing! Except for needing some serious anti-gravity under your butt just to go #1.... I am also germophobic.

[Guest NatashaJade]

I do believe that we all missed our calling - we were born to be thespians (that's thespians not necessarily lesbians).

Sally,

The funny thing is, I am a Theatre Arts teacher! I am always performing! When I do my "female character" for my students, little do they know I'm just dropping my "male character" and being myself! The great part about my job is that I can be weird, crazy...wear my hair long and ears pierced (gauged actually) and nobody thinks anything of it. It's kind of expected (even though the other male theatre teacherss I know are all so uptight...but I'm originally from L.A., so I have the additional California Crazy.

luv

Gin

[Guest ChloëC]

Thespians, huh. Well, time to undress my background just a little more. My father was in a college theater group, got to be VP but was disappointed he didn't make Pres, cuz his father was a founding member and 3rd president of the same group from the early 1900's (and it was a big time group, rivaling Harvard at one time). I have a picture of my grandfather in costume, in drag. Interesting, isn't it.

In college, I impressed my Speech teacher enough that when she directed several winter plays, I was given a role in a 1 act play. I have a picture of it somewhere, supposedly as a snake, but the more I look at it, the more feline/feminine it seems. But then another actor dropped out of another 1 act, and they asked me to take his part, besides the other one - the title of that play was 'If Men Played Cards Like Women'. This was in 1966. Really interesting. If I find both pictures mentioned, I'll post them in my gallery.

In the community I wound up in (due to some coincidences), about 25 years ago, I tried out for a musical, got selected for the 7th male lead, and proceded to appear in 4 subsequent plays/musicals, produced another, and was Pres of that group. After about 10 years, I left the group, just got tired.

Thinking about it, I suspect you're right, Sally. I've been acting for a long time, and it was only natural to follow up.

Chloë