Essentials Anyone?

[Guest Jeannine Bean]

So what is it to be transgendered? It seems obvious that my experience of life is different from cisgendered womens' or cisgendered mens'. I've gotten past the point where I want desperately to be accepted into the normal lady club, and have taken an honest inventory. So now I'm looking to see what is essentially male or female.

We might as well strip away everything cultural. Other than biological functions, I see no reason to accept any behavior at all as being a "male behavior" or a "female behavior." You may disagree, but I would challenge you to take some sociology classes before you get too entrenched in what you think.

Maybe no one will believe me, but I'll put this out there. I used to drive around and notice if I could tell if the driver of a car was a man or a woman, long before I could see even a hint of the person, as the car was far off in the distance and the sun was shining off their windscreen or the tint would hide them. Sight unseen, I was usually right.

I think there is something that is essentially male and something that is essentially female and I think we can intuitively detect it as well. I also think that even when I was totally closeted, presenting myself as a straight male, wearing normal men's clothes and speaking deeply and strongly, people would constantly ask me if I was gay. Even though I generally have women as lovers, I apparently register on most gay men's radar as a "great target." I think everyone has both, but there's a clear psychosexual identification with one or the other in most people.

Anyways, I'd love to hear what anyone else thinks about what those essences actually are. I have also determined that for me, part of the essence of being transgendered is having a lot more access to both of these essences, though perhaps still identifying with one more than the other.

Anyone?

Jeannine

[Guest nymphblossom]

Society's gender cues are a very interesting concept that I enjoy experimenting with. I can go out wearing androgynous women's clothes (ie jeans, Henley top & a pair of tennies, ) eyeliner, lip gloss and foundation powder and am identified as a guy 100% of the time. Slip on my wig, bra & earrings, put on a dash lip stick & eye shadow, and I generally pass as a woman.

Blossom

[Guest sarah f]

I think a lot of how people perceive you is how you present yourself. You may act a little feminine and not ever no that you are doing so. It is all in body language. I have also had men try to pick me up. I don't no why but maybe it was the way I acted toward them or the way I just did things. It was always a question to me as why they thought I was gay. I even had someone call me up at my work and ask me out. I didn't even know who they were. But like I was saying, I just think it is the way we handle ourselves in public.

Love,

Sarah F

[Guest Elizabeth K]

This topic should stir it up! My goodness!

I think if the anwers were obvious and easily agreed upon, everyone here could quit therapy and just get on with their lives.

Eventually, socienty as a whole may decide on some rules for male/female 'essentials' as noted. Lord knows we have been trying for hundreds, if not thousands of years. But the scientific evidence combined with true wisdom of experience might some day come closer to deciding what is male and what is female. ANd this is also gender vs sexual identification!

Yes - we are dual - we gender dysphoric, especially those of us who are decidedly transsexual. We sometimes see the 'essentials' or we think we do, because we study and watch.

BUT an important leason here. At least for me. I have been wanting to transition to my true self for 60 years. I thought it was a 'body" issue .... and discovered it is not, not entirely - we ARE judged by others, by the body we inhibit. But the main thing I learned is it is your mind - maybe what is called the mindset - or even what is considered your soul - it is that 'you' - it is that internal 'you' that determines your essence.

As a transitioning MTF I thought I would have to study and practice - watch and learn - work hard at becoming a woman. WRONG

I am already a woman, am a woman now, always will be a woman. Strange - all I did was tap into that? Simple! Wayyyyyy too easy. I have been so blind all these years! No wonder my playacting as male was so stiff and unnatural!

So the 'essence?"

It is in you. You are what you are.

The essence in others? With a million people, there are probably a million mixes of essence, and just like everything else - the 'middle' is considered the nornm.

SO there may be a 'middle' that is masculine and a 'middle' that is feminine. There is everything in between. A 'barbell' distribution.

And what is the essence that I have that makes me female? Well - a hint maybe that the HRT has changed me even farther than I expected. This change has a biological cause. As a woman I feel vulnerable and want to hide to protect myself. As a male I was bulletproof. There is a start - that teststerone/estrogen thing.

And in a woman's body I simply cannot do things I could do as a male - my strength is gone. In a male body I could NOT see, taste, hear, smell and especially touch things in a way I can now as a woman, another something to study.

And everyone treats me differently.

But mainly - I threat myself differently - loving who I am and what I am becoming.

Does this help?

Lizzy

[Guest viv]

Lizzy,

Thats the second time I have read re our stuff put so well, the

other time was from a FTM, you have your finger on the pulse and

put across your opinion so clearly ,thanks Hun. viv

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Lizzy,

Thats the second time I have read re our stuff put so well, the

other time was from a FTM, you have your finger on the pulse and

put across your opinion so clearly ,thanks Hun. viv

I try - it is so hard to understand us I think. Now that I am a year 'down the road' things seem clearer to me. I try to help here - where I can make a difference. I wish I could do the same in the non-community - working on that now.

THANK you - I really took your compliment to heart!

Lizzy

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Indeed Jeannine,

For many of us, how we see and know ourselves differs from what others see or want to see. Not only do we have struggles within ourselves, we also must contend with the pressure from the outside world to conform to a gender norm that they attempt to hold us to. One of the primary reasons I did not move forward until I was in my forties was from the societal pressure to behave as my biological gender that overwhelmed me when I was younger. It was not until I was middle-aged did I have the courage, the awareness, the focus to realize who I really was eventhough it was there all of the time.

Interesting exercise that you do with trying to identify the gender of the driver from a distance. I wonder if the essence that you are referring to are actually visual and other clues that your mind processes instantly to identify gender.

Good topic Jeannine

Brenda

[Guest ricka]

Fascinating thread! I had a male friend tell me recently that I have the aura of a woman totally. That was such a nice comment. I look back at all the years I struggled being an effeminate male----something that looking back at home movies when I was a child was evident back then as well. Even in high school the pictures of me in the annuals showed a definitely feminine face and expression. Like you Lizzie, it was never about studying and practicing to act feminine, it was the most natural thing in the world just to _be_ feminine. Wearing female attire and appearing outwardly as a woman came later and was in essence making my outward appearance congruent with the rest of me.

I am a hetero female and it is interesting that gay men were seldom attracted to me even when I was in male mode, I think because my essence was female and not male.

Ricka

[Carolyn Marie]

But mainly - I threat myself differently - loving who I am and what I am becoming.

Lizzy

Lizzy, you really synthesized everything down to that one truly important point. We all should remember that.

It is easy to get too wrapped up in what everyone else thinks of us. Being recognized and validated as women is important, sure.

But seeing the woman in ourselves is what is really important. Accepting and loving ourselves for the women we are is the one

essential goal we all must have.

Thanks, Jeannine for the topic, and thanks Lizzy for your wonderful reply.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Neuro]

My essence smells vaguely like bacon.

I might be a little too hungry right now to type a coherently philosophical reply. Be back after a snack! XD

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

What is and isn't male/female is drummed into us from the time that we are small children. This starts with the colors we are dressed in, what toys and games are societally acceptable for each sex of child. When society is faced with a group that cannot or will not fall into line and into the nice neat box that says you have a penis you are male and will do this they react with hatred, confusion, hostility, and discrimination. All of these are aimed at forcing that person or group of people back into the "norms" of society.

Those of us in the LGBT community in general and the Transgender community in particular really rock the boat on this because not only do we upset the societal concept of what gender is but we over turn one of the most cherished ideas "men are men and women are women and they will always be distinct and separate". Society has a hard time understanding why MTF's in particuar would want to give up everything that goes with maleness and (sorry ladies) become essentially second class citizens. They don't understand that we have always been women and its only by an accident of birth that we got stuck in the wrong body.

Six months of living full time has given me the attitude that if I want to be accepted as a woman I have to learn what it is to be one. This is not easy later in life since the male persona we developed did such a good job of hiding us from the world and many times from ourselves that we could not possibly assimilate all that we had to know. I think that most of us who do a reasonable job of passing have learned to do one thing, and that is to be consciencious and rather secret observers of the natal members of our targe gender. Watching them, learning what is acceptable for a woman your age, what clothing and hair styles are ok and the like, then doing our level best to come close to those norms.

@Carolyn Marie: you are so right, if we cannot accept ourselves for who we are then there is no way we can expect anyone else to accept us either. I put this in on essay I did called Another Woman on the Sidewalk

"Acceptance in our target gender is probably the hardest thing that we have to do since we don't have the years of socialization and upbringing to tell us what it is to be a girl or a woman in our western society."

@Lizzy: You have one of those rare gifts of being able to distil a subject down to it essence and expound on that. Many times I have been truly amazed by that ability of yours.

[Guest nymphblossom]

Joanna wrote:

What is and isn't male/female is drummed into us from the time that we are small children. This starts with the colors we are dressed in...

And society's rules often do flip flops. Long hair has been associated with men for MUCH longer than short hair and in the 1800's, baby BOYS wore pink!

Blossom

[Guest ChloëC]

Ok, while I'm religious by nature, I also accept the concept of evolution (with its current theories and especially genetics.

As far as essence goes, I would guess that a lot of traits got established a very long time ago (like maybe a million or more), when longevity was a problem, birthing was a problem, survival of the species was a problem. Even 150 years ago (I know, I've done a lot of geneological reserach) families were potentially bigger because of the high degree of infant and child deaths.

It's only been in the last 50 to 100 years, that modern medicine has turned millions of years of genetics on its ears, as well as improvements in standards of living and we now have the ability to pursue what we feel we really are. Not just the rich or fortunate, but a large number of people.

I would guess back in the beginnings of human existance that it was important to be able to quickly distinguish between the two sexes and determine male or female. Male for determining dominance and banding together for protection from natural enemies, female for birthing and nurturing. The species didn't have much time to pursue happiness, since pursuit of its very existance was paramount.

Well, now we have these millions of years of genes and traits stored and modern marvels have allowed much more indivuality then ever before. And of course with survival rates climbing like nobody's business, we can have smaller families and less absolute need to worry about species survival. Yes, there are lots of other issues but they aren't directly related to reproduction survival issues.

So, we still have people who are operating under the old system where it's still important to them to be able to distinguish true males and true females, as well as make sure that the definitions are very well defined. It's going to take a very long time for people to overcome those built-in beliefs and enter the world as we move to even more medical advances.

As Blossom pointed out, some things do change quickly if found to be of significant importance. The military's understanding that head lice was one of several major deterrants to putting large numbers of healthy males into ready combat mandated head shavings in World War II, thus the crew-cut and men caming out of the military in better shape ( also because of improvements in conditioning and other medical treatments) giving a macho attitude that has continued to this day. We can see the long hair of hippies of the 60's as being an aberation that only a few adopt. And I find it funny (and a little sad) looking at YouTube comments by lots of current younger people, making derisive fun of the dress and longish hair of rock groups of the 70's and 80's (especially the glams).

We've come so far, and yet, there is still so much to overcome.

Chloë

[Guest Jeannine Bean]

Part of the reason I asked is that I am starting to see everyone as having both essences... aside from all the societal conditioning. I'm still not really focusing on that.

I believe that most people end up feeling bound in rules and roles. Be they trans (like the woman above finding it hard to resocialize herself), or not trans. I am beginning to also see my role as someone who is visibly gendertrans to be in showing everyone a way to be themselves more freely. I think a person can identify more with one particular essence, but still have a heck of a lot of the other...

Then humans tend to confuse what they are with what society tells them that means. Even if a person gets as far as "I'm really this" then they usually seem to want to adopt the social straightjackets corresponding to whatever they believe themselves to be. I dream of a world where no one has to do that.

Social economy and personal psychological economy is important, of course.

And I am very seldom wrong distinguishing men and women when they are walking up behind me, whatever they are wearing... so yes, there are also probably a million subtle visual and auditory cues going on, though one of my girlfriends recently commented that when I walk, I always sound like a heavy woman. So yes, there are probably some deep social cues that also get ingrained in us according to what we identify with which is why some of us have the experience of just letting it out.

--Jeannine