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Guest Rika-chama

Awhile ago I came out to my two best friends. Both were accepting and just really don't care whether I am a boy or girl. The thing is they still refer to me as a girl. One of them "A" isn't so bad. "A" will joke around about it and sometimes will refer to me as a boy. the thing is friend "D" by best friend doesn't. He says he goes by "what's real, the physical evidence" and this just bothers me. Am I gonna have to wait until after transition to be called a he by "D"? He still calls me a girl, lesbian, etc. and honestly it is very annoying. If I say I am a boy he retorts with "no you're not" and I remember once he was making fun of the FtM bottom surgery to friend "A" who was getting annoyed by him. The thing "D" is my best friend in the whole world but I want him to understand. I'm thinking of telling him this next time I see him but I don't ant him to get mad. I thought that out of all the people I know he would be the most accepting but I guess not =/

Ni-paa~

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Guest GoldenKirbichu
Awhile ago I came out to my two best friends. Both were accepting and just really don't care whether I am a boy or girl. The thing is they still refer to me as a girl. One of them "A" isn't so bad. "A" will joke around about it and sometimes will refer to me as a boy. the thing is friend "D" by best friend doesn't. He says he goes by "what's real, the physical evidence" and this just bothers me. Am I gonna have to wait until after transition to be called a he by "D"? He still calls me a girl, lesbian, etc. and honestly it is very annoying. If I say I am a boy he retorts with "no you're not" and I remember once he was making fun of the FtM bottom surgery to friend "A" who was getting annoyed by him. The thing "D" is my best friend in the whole world but I want him to understand. I'm thinking of telling him this next time I see him but I don't ant him to get mad. I thought that out of all the people I know he would be the most accepting but I guess not =/

Ni-paa~

Ask him what a "real" boy is. Then start assimilating his positions.

If he says a real boy is a person who has male genitals, what about people who are born without them, have to get them removed later in life, or lose them due to an accident?

If he says a real boy is a person who has XY chromosomes, what about Klinefelter's, XX males, etc.?

It will at least make him think about it.

Also, impress on him that it makes you feel happy to be called that. Ask him how he would feel if you referred to him with female pronouns.

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    • Abigail Genevieve
      I read through those SBC documents, the Nashville Statement and some other stuff and I am sitting here frustrated with the situation, not guilty feeling but irritated at how they missed some logical connections because of their preconceptions and I seriously doubt they talked to a biologist, a geneticist or a specialist in sexual disorders before writing this stuff.   I've never been SBC and never plan to be.  Nonetheless there is a sense of yuck I have to deal with.  They are conservative evangelicals and likely have never met an articulate transgender person in their lives, one they can dialog with, because, for one thing, according to the Nashville Statement, they will shut down dialog and tell the transgender person how they are wrong.  No listening.  Just telling. 
    • MaeBe
      And we're no longer primitive. We're not longer fighting for the survival of the species, in fact we're killing the planet with our virility. You can claim old habits die hard, but it's not for primitive clashes of clans (almost wrote clashes of clams, that's a completely different thing!) that these mentalities persist. Who is responsible for maintaining ancient culture in the name of tradition? Perhaps my argument is a semantic one, but who are the people most insistent in perpetuating the past? Religious bodies and those that support them are.
    • Abigail Genevieve
      The only memory I can drudge up about a flippant attitude was some school kid who said he switched genders on a whim and never could decide on Monday what he would be Tuesday.  This was an online article a ways back.  For all I know the author of the article exaggerated.  Or misunderstood.   Trying to locate the cause of this idea that transgender people have a flippant attitude, which nyet, about TG, especially in the light of the immense soul-struggle so many go through on so many levels.   They may say they love someone, but you are right, what happens in the actuality is what counts and 'loving church discipline' can be cold and cruel.  Personally I am not going to risk it. If I found myself at an SBC church even for one meeting I would carefully avoid any hint that I am TG.  They might feel obligated to deliver my filthy soul from Satan and not believe it when I said I already invited Jesus in my heart and I seek to obey Him.  I have been through things like that at times on other issues.   Our denomination has a position paper on transgender I can live with, and we really like our church and are plugged in and comfortable.  I pointed out to our pastor that, percentage wise, we in all likelihood have some stealth transgender among us.  He did not reply, and he did not reply in a manner that makes me think he knows of some in our church, people who have told him they are and he is keeping the confidence.  Several times he has alluded to transgender people without condemnation.  It's a good place. We struggle with the issue of dealing with transgender youth coming to youth events, I have heard second hand.  But they are welcome and they come.  Issues like where do they sleep at night get wrestled with. Not banning them.
    • Abigail Genevieve
      Listen to John MacArthur on trans* sometimes - Christians sometimes do.  I could easily point to others.    I'm not sure religion is the underlying cause.  In a primitive tribe, a man does not want to go to war because he is a woman? They are down a warrior. A woman claims to be a man and does not want to build the tribe up by giving birth? Both of these things are primitively treason against the tribe. 
    • Mmindy
      @Abigail GenevieveI was raised on St. Louis Cardinals Baseball & Blues Hockey. I’m old enough to have been a Cards Football fan too, but Bill Bidwell changed that when he moved the team to Arizona. 
    • MaeBe
      Honestly, I wasn't talking about religious stances on trans people when I wrote that. That said, religion fosters transphobia in subtle and awful ways. Such as your reference for the SBC, it's a sin. Why? Because they interpret scripture in a way to exclude trans people from the capability of being saved? Where do you think transphobia really stems from? It is 100% rooted in religion. Even those that aren't religious are influenced by religion, society as a whole has been. I think handwaving their position as simply "honoring tradition" or "interpreting sin" as not being transphobic is allowing their doublespeak to cloud judgement. If they truly loved, respected, understood, and embraced humanity people they wouldn't exclude trans people. They would go to the parts of the bible that talk about loving everyone as they are God's creations and just letting God sort it out in the end, but no: if you're not cis/het, you're not welcome and shame on you [selected slur]!   On the flip side, I draw parallels to how religion behaves exactly as xstian nationalists insist LGBTQ+ people are grooming youths. The main way to make more xtians is to breed and indoctrinate the young. Trans people aren't forcing their young to be trans or guilting them to no end if they're not or traveling the world as missionaries to spread transness!   Anyway, I am flying too close to the Sun here. I have no qualms if people find solace, grace, or peace in faith or religion, but I am wary of the idea that religion doesn't propagate transphobia.  
    • Betty K
      I’m glad to hear you mean no harm and have no beef with genderfluid folks. Thank you for clarifying that. This still seems a strange presumption to me though, when so much of anti-trans propaganda is clearly either (a) concocted in bad faith to justify an argument, or (b) based on ignorant assumptions. Yes it’s possible a few outliers in the trans community are making ridiculous claims about this topic, but even if so I seriously doubt they are the cause of the relevant anti-trans propaganda.    That may well be a fair call, and you’re right that “transphobe” is an over-generalisation. I used it as a shorthand and because, as Sally and MaeBe said, there is always a transphobic minority that spreads the anti-trans views which then unfortunately influence some who are less transphobic. But I still think we can fairly characterise such beliefs as being transphobic, at least partly. As to the absence of hatred in those church documents, you may be right about that, but I would be wary of taking people or institutions at face value when they urge love and compassion. Even the most virulent transphobes sometimes claim to support trans people. Actions speak louder than words.    I do better understand your anguish over lack of belief in trans identities now though. It must be very difficult being trans and involved with certain churches. I know there are some churches that accept and affirm trans folks though; maybe it’s time for a change in denomination?
    • Abigail Genevieve
      I looked through the Focus on the Family material and also the Southern Baptist Convention stuff, both highly influential, both rejecting transgenderism.  I found no hatred but an urge to treat people with love and compassion. I found some logical fallacies in both and nothing convinced me to change my position.  SBC assumes someone who is transgender is not saved and so is not allowed to join their congregations.    I have a certain affection for both.  FotF helped us with some material that helped us raise our kids and on most issues they are fellow travelers.  SBC seeks to conscientiously fight the good fight but I would never join a SBC church for reasons that are irrelevant here.  Not that I could now in good conscience.  I look like a guy? SURPRISE!  Left boot of fellowship.   The Nashville Statement is worse.  CBMW.org wrote it and it has been criticized heavily by some trans folk. . https://cbmw.org/nashville-statement#articles  I am saddened at some of who signed the thing. Articles 10 and 13 are of particular interest.  Other things can be found here that trans folk would take exception to. But they do not treat TG as something flippant.    I would not refer to any of these as transphobes.  I am not sure the term is useful in conceptualizing or interacting with those who object to the idea of transgender being something besides sin.  When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.    
    • Maddee
      Happy to see the rainbows again🌈🌈
    • Ashley0616
    • Vidanjali
      Nice to see you, dear and congratulations on your upcoming anniversary. Very well done!
    • Vidanjali
      It's estimated between 1-2% of the general population is transgender. This is based on a cursory web search of studies and stats. So apply that to all teachers and students in Florida. According to ballotpedia, in 2022 there was a total of about 3 million public school teachers and students combined. That does not include  higher ed institutions and private institutions. So let's tack on another million people which is a pretty conservative estimate. 1-2% of 4 million is 40,000-80,000 people.
    • Vidanjali
      Both. In the course of experience an individual will naturally go through periods of inquiry and seek to define their experiences for deeper personal insight. This potentially goes on and on, though some have greater curiosity than others.
    • Ashley0616
      Heck I would get rid of the left and right lower rib. I would love a narrower waist but I would still need to get rid of my gut. I guess I'll do liposuction and tummy tuck and while they are at they can remove those ribs. 
    • MaeBe
      What @Sally Stone wrote is what I think as well.   The flippancy they ascribe to trans people is to validate their position that trans people are given to whim and swayed by the "trans ideology" that is "poisoning" humanity. Projecting this narrative on trans people "wins them points" in the game of their own making and being loud about it gets others to listen. They get those, who likely don't have a personal stake in transgender rights, to nod their heads up and down to increase the volume of their rhetoric. The passive transphobe does this because they have never needed to comprehend gender as anything as what they've always assumed; the "easy" answer the loud ones project just seems "logical" when there is no comprehension or compassion.   Once a person looks past their own ignorance they can come to understand this isn't about what they fear (insert crass statement about what transphobes are actually afraid of). It's just too easy to be ignorant and state "all I've ever known are two genders, boys and girls, who have sex together to make babies" (conflating gender and sex, as usual...) instead of taking just a little bit of time to understand the world is more complex than a simple bible verse.   For those people, I have a rib or two they can have for making more women--that's just how they're made--I really want a narrower waist for dress season.
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