Can I Have Your Opinions?

[Guest Robin Winter]

I'd like some opinions. What's your impression of this.

http://twitter.com/JohnnyBoyXo

http://hothotmess.wordpress.com/2008/06/06...r-than-crocker/

[Guest Donna Jean]

Hi, Shi!

Where ya been, Hon?

Ain't seen you around for a while!

Now, I don't really understand the first one and the second gave me a 404 error....

What's it all about anyways?

A transplant?

Donna Jean

[Guest Robin Winter]

Hi, Shi!

Where ya been, Hon?

Ain't seen you around for a while!

Now, I don't really understand the first one and the second gave me a 404 error....

What's it all about anyways?

A transplant?

Donna Jean

The first one is a twitter page. The second one would have given you a better idea....I'll check the link.

[Guest Robin Winter]

http://hothotmess.wordpress.com/2008/06/06...r-than-crocker/

Just try copy/pasting the link into your browser. It worked when I did it that way.

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

That second link still didn't work for me after I tried to copy/paste it on.

But I did find this cute tweet from the first link: is there a Rehab for Lucky Charms? if so where do i sign up?

[Guest Robin Winter]

http://www.youtube.com/user/johnnyboyxo

Try this one. The other link was essentially just one of these videos (I'm So Fake), with that websites opinion.

[Guest praisedbeherhooves]

Wow. He's HOT. I don't really like him calling himself a "crossdresser" though. He's not, or at least he's not out about it. Gender bending does not give you the right to call yourself a crossdresser anymore than braiding your hair gives you the right to drop the n-bomb. Adapting the outward stereotype of a group does not give you the right to use desparaging names for them.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Wow. He's HOT. I don't really like him calling himself a "crossdresser" though. He's not, or at least he's not out about it. Gender bending does not give you the right to call yourself a crossdresser anymore than braiding your hair gives you the right to drop the n-bomb. Adapting the outward stereotype of a group does not give you the right to use desparaging names for them.

I agree here. Beautiful presentation - fortunate genetic inheritance probably - but an exploiter of us all. Not real. The use of the word 'crossdresser" is always a key of an outsider.

Lizzy

Word filter changed t.rann.y to crossdresser

[Guest Donna Jean]

Isn't that the person that did that viral "Leave Britney Alone" video a long time back?

I could be wrong on that......

Donna Jean

[Guest praisedbeherhooves]

Isn't that the person that did that viral "Leave Britney Alone" video a long time back?

I could be rong on that......

Donna Jean

Nope. That's Chris Crocker, who I think is actually is gender queer. Si has made statements that si feels like both genders or is halfway between them.

[Guest Donna Jean]

Nope. That's Chris Crocker, who I think is actually is gender queer. Si has made statements that si feels like both genders or is halfway between them.

Oh yeah! That's right...now I remember!

Thanks, Hon!

I appreciate that!

Donna Jean

[Guest Robin Winter]

The reason I ask is because I got into a mild argument about this, as I was slightly offended. The person I was talking to actually claimed this person was transsexual, was planning to get surgery etc. The person in question claims to be the t-word that Lauras filter changes into crossdresser, whatever that's supposed to mean. I initially got offended at the idea that this person was supposedly a transsexual using the name Johnny Boy, and I felt that he/she was making a mockery of transsexuals for the sake of hits and ratings. After viewing the sites myself, I don't believe this Johnny Boy person is in fact claiming to be transsexual, maybe transvestite, I'm not sure. But I still find the whole thing offensive.

Anyway, the person I was sort of arguing with, I was attempting to educate them on trans issues etc, and I thought if I could get the opinions of other trans people it might help convince her. Maybe I'm just being oversensitive, though, I dunno.

This was the argument, the initial post was her response to something someone else said. I stepped in and it went from there.

Her: Well, he's GOING to be a girl, he's getting surgery. And you shouldn't judge. I've talked to him before, he's a really sweet person.

Me: "She's" getting surgery. If she's transsexual, she's already a woman, she just happens to have an unfortunate birth defect that needs correcting.

Her: Sorry. "She" just calls herself Johnny BOY, sooo...

Me: Then I would question the fact that this person is getting surgery, and if so, what the real reason for it is.

Her: Well, it's just a cute name, it doesn't mean anything. Besides, what do you care?

Me: I care for the same reason I despise old men who diddle little boys (beyond the primary reason that it damages the boys of course). It fuels the social stigma attached to transsexuals. It makes the people who really are in transition look bad, much the same way that homosexuality has been equated with pedophilia.

If you were to speak to the average transwoman, particularly those who have reached a stage in transition where they actually pass as a woman, I doubt you would find a single one who wishes to be addressed by a male name or with male pronouns.

Her: It happens to be a stage name. How exactly does that make transsexuals look bad?

Well, Johnny is definitely NOT average. Everyone's different, remember?

Me: It makes them look bad because it devalues the stress and pain they go through being viewed as the wrong gender. It makes a mockery of them. The suicide rate is almost 50% among transsexuals, and that's only the successful suicides, and only the ones that they know the reason for. The rate is probably much higher, and is definitely much higher for attempted suicides. For someone to cash in on being a "crossdresser" while underlining the fact that they're a man underneath the makeup and glitter is disrespectful. If it's an act for the stage, he should be calling himself a crossdresser or transvestite, whichever is more appropriate, but not a transsexual.

Her: So you're hating on her because she's not trying to kill herself? Johnnyboy is a transsexual, she's getting surgery done. End of story. I have no idea why you care about this so much, but I guess I'll never know.

Me: I'm not hating on her for any reason. I just think it's inappropriate for someone claiming to be a transsexual to refer to themselves as "Johnny Boy". I mentioned the suicide rates to point out that there's an enormous amount of stress and pain in the life of a transsexual for almost every case, and it's disrespectful to glamorize the process for stage purposes.

I care because I'm an advocate for LGBT issues.

Her: Ugh. You obviously have no idea who Johnny Boy is. She's a person, she doesn't have to do what everyone wants her to do. She's not disrespecting anyone, and she's most definitely NOT using this process for stage purposes. This conversation is over. Do not expect another reply.

*EDIT* According to you, if I was a transsexual, I would've tried to kill myself. [so there]

Me: And you obviously have no idea what it means to be transsexual.

Cheers.

The entire exchange took place before I actually looked Johnny Boy up, so everything I said was based on what she said about him/her getting the surgery etc. After the edit to her final post she blocked me, so I guess this whole thing is pointless anyway.

[Guest Robin Winter]

Hehe, sorry about leaving that phrase in. I didn't even really notice it, I'm so accustomed to that kind of talk on that site. If you ask me though, that was the least objectionable thing she said.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Shilo - I think you are 100% on all that. But there are confused true transsexuals in denial. Someone that is truly MTF, keeping a male name is weird! But I imagine it can happen.

The real revealing trait that suggests she is not truly transsexual is her using all the trappings, dressing and posing, in such a way to draw attention and to make money.

Most all the t-girls I know, pre and post op - want to NOT be noticed - to fade into womanhood and be accepted for what they are. To exploit your transsexuallity would be a sign of insincerity or worse - such a bitterness over your condition you are really hating youself so very deeply. hummm... that you are making a mockery as a sick, twisted joke on yourself.

Certainly calling yourself Johnny-Boy and parading as a 'gender bending transsexual' is exactly what our community DOES NOT NEED!

Lord deliver us from pretenders and wanna-beeeees

Lizzy

[Guest Jean Davis]

Hey little Sis

Haven't seen you around for awhile, I was kinda getting worried about you.

Now about your topic.

Personally I don't like titles too much, I do believe that most people know that. Also it doesn't really matter to me what this individual calls themselves, I tend to work off of the persons actions more than anything and from what I have seen from the video she could be considered either way. But the way I see this is that she is not doing direct damage to anyone, she just wants to do her own thing and by us judging her because she's useing a male name make us no better than those who judge us for not being born our correct gender.

Please don't stupe to the level of those who judge us, you are soo much better than that. Just let her do what she wants and she may see in the future that what she's doing is not going to be a very easy life, then and only then she'll make her decision on what she's going to do.

Anyways, that's my opinion, I think.

LUV

Jean

[Guest insanitylives]

Ha, Chris Crocker is amusing. Just some of the more intelligent rant videos anyway. The (in)famous 'leave britney alone' thing is a load of some annoying... words I can't say on here

I don't think chris is as much of a detriment, as just odd. And there's nothing wrong with eccentricities, right?

johnnyboy, I'm just confused. If someone IDs as female, why use 'boy' in your name? Maybe just an attention seeker, who knows.

[Guest Soph]

Maybe I'm a pessimist, but its not really viewed as eccentric by the non-trans community. People like Chris Crocker and Johnny-Boy, by virtue of being so outrageously flamboyant, become popular, as they're just such ridiculous characters. However, this tends to typify real trans people (I'm with the people who question whether or not she really is trans. No transwoman would exploit/flaunt her birth defect in any way) to the populace. So, since they claim to be trans, they become the rule for trans people to society. This means that when someone learns that we're trans, they assume certain things about us (overly effeminate, emotionally unstable, probably sex addicts, since these people that determine our stereotype tend to flaunt their sexuality in some way) which are seldom true, and quite frankly offensive. This perpetuates the negative stigma attached to any kind of variant gender identity (not that I have a variant gender identity, per se. I consider female to be well within the cultural binary of gender), and keeps us from getting jobs, and at the worst gets some of us murdered. Maybe I'm catastrophizing, but I can't see any way in which people like this could help our image. Perhaps if they were sane people >_>

[Guest Eth]

No transwoman would exploit/flaunt her birth defect in any way

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think we should really be going on any witch hunts and trying to define who is and who isn't "really" transgender based on their attitudes. There are flamboyant people of all orientations and gender identities out there. I think what we ought to be focusing on is more the fact that people attach the stupid stereotypes to us, whereas when a straight guy beats his wife we don't start calling all straight men women beaters. Perhaps a better example would be when a straight woman wears orange jeans, we don't turn around and say all straight women love orange jeans. The problem is the stereotypes themselves - not necessarily the eccentric actions of a few individuals.

Perhaps if they were sane people >_>

To me that statement reeks of the intolerance all transgender people have faced. According to many people you and I are 'insane' because we'd probably be more than willing to change our genitals. If we're going to start judging other people like this then let's toss out everything we've always been saying about how it's unfair to judge us and how people are intolerant and refuse to understand. This person is different- in a way that I personally don't think I would want to be... but she likes being that way. So what? That makes her insane?

If she identifies as transgender, she's transgender. Or are we doing checks on everyone now and giving little stickers only to those we deem to be "true" transgender people?

愛 Eth

[Guest Ryles_D]

No transwoman would exploit/flaunt her birth defect in any way

I'm curious what this means- but it's way too close to the "trannier than thou" idea that damages our community for me to be comfortable with it.

If you mean that a trans woman wouldn't exploit her transness for whatever reason- why not? We have enough problems in this world, if someone is comfortable with being employed/(in)famous/popular/whatever because they're trans, then why shouldn't they use it to get ahead? It's like saying "A real gay man wouldn't exploit his gayness- all those guys making a big deal about how they're gay or being really flaming and stereotypical are just fakers in it for the attention". Yeah, some people are just exploiting trans people for shock value- but some people genuinely are that way. Why do we have the right to police the people who genuinely are trans for not being "like us"? And if we have that right- why doesn't society have the right to police us for not being cisgendered?

I don't really get the point of "JohnnyBoy" if sie is a girl, but whatever. Sie has the right to define hir own gender and determine how people see hir just as much as we do.

If you mean that no trans woman would ever stay out as trans or tell anyone she doesn't have to? No. There are trans women who don't go stealth and most of them are doing more for our rights and trans tolerance than the majority of us ever will. If no trans woman ever allowed it to become public knowledge- we wouldn't have any rights.

[Guest denisesined]

Hi folks

I was attracted to reading your comments and surprised at the variety in them. The person in question does have a right to an opinion and others have a reasonable right to reply. Perhaps it would be more profitable/productive to comment on the options rather than picking fault with the person. I have no idea who anyone is in this group so have no preset idea's concerning anyone.

A simple statement of your beliefs and the options we have would express the same without personal injury to anyone. As a person struggles with their gender identity they make statements that at the time seem right and for some this seems to be bad actions. While we are all a little familiar with each others ideas, some are more progressed than others. It is up to the ones who are advanced to ensure the guidelines are protected without interfering with the individuals growth.

If you feel this person is wrong about things, then simply state that and explain your stand. As a post-op trans I am a little disappointed in the way some attitudes were expressed. We have our needs and we have the right to fight for them. But remember that right or wrong, others also are entitled to their opinions.

I wish you all the best in this discussion.

Denise Holliday

Canada

[Guest Soph]

If she identifies as transgender, she's transgender. Or are we doing checks on everyone now and giving little stickers only to those we deem to be "true" transgender people?

While I would respond to the rest of your post, to do so might incite too much debate.

I will, however, approach this.

I'm not saying she might not be transgender. However, its not difficult to be transgender. Really, all you have to do is claim you are, as you said. I was expressing doubt that she may be transsexual. To fit the category of transsexual, you have to have certain physical characteristics that indicate that you have a gender identity that varies from your biological sex (such as a feminization of either the entire brain or the stria terminalis. The latter is proven, while the former needs more study). I'm not saying that transsexuality is a scale, since it isn't. You're either transsexual or you're not. However, transgender is. Some people may only crossdress, some may be androgyne. The second is "trannier" than the first, if only because it requires more of a shift in lifestyle.

Sorry if my use of "trans" to indicate transsexual in lieu of transgender caused some confusion.

[Guest Eth]

@Soph

I agree with you that there's a certain physical requirement for being transsexual although I don't think we yet understand that requirement quite in full. What I'm saying I disagreed with was believing that anyone who fits that bill is also definitely going to have a certain personality and act a certain way.

If a natal female went around calling herself something like "JohnnyBoy" or similar, but continued to express a desire to be feminine/female, even flaunting being female or her eccentric self-identification, should we then turn around and say she's not "really" a girl because of that? I don't think so, and I don't think a trans* person should have to adhere to different social rules either so I don't think we should turn around and claim to know what they are or aren't "really".

The problem I'm having with the argument is just that it was all based on her personality. If you wanted to argue "If she is a girl/identifies as female, then she's a really odd/eccentric/unusual girl..." I'd probably whole-heartedly agree, lol. Not to say that her personality is "good" or "bad" (because who am I to say that?) but I'll admit it's pretty flamboyant/unique. But to me saying that she's "NOT a girl" because she has that attitude and flaunts her 'transness' is like saying any other girl isn't "really" a girl because she drinks beer and watches football. Maybe it's not what most girls do but it doesn't make her any less a girl if that's what she identifies as.

愛 Eth

[Guest Soph]

The problem I have is that she seems to emphasize (and likewise take advantage of) her birth defect. Trans people (referring to transsexuals) are highly unlikely to do this, while a crossdresser or some other thing like that would, as they don't necessarily have any problems with their bodies.

Being comfortable in your skin is all great in theory, but if she is so comfortable as to remind people every 20 seconds then its unlikely that shes trans... its sort of the only way it manifests itself: an intense dissatisfaction with your body. Simply put, a trans person would never be comfortable in their skin, resultant of their being trans.

Regardless, her behavior does add to the social stigma that we face every day (I doubt anyone is going to argue with me there). So I can just as easily oppose her on those grounds.

[Guest Eth]

Regardless, her behavior does add to the social stigma that we face every day (I doubt anyone is going to argue with me there). So I can just as easily oppose her on those grounds.

Sure that I agree with, I just won't decide for her what she is or isn't based on any of that. As for not being comfortable in your skin.. there are some who are, or are once they reach a certain point. Others are just good at hiding what they feel. That by itself just doesn't seem enough evidence for me to come to a conclusion like that.

愛 Eth

[Guest Soph]

That she ignores the primary symptomatic diagnosis criteria for GID indicates that she may not have GID (not that I really like referring to it as GID). There certainly are people who think they may be trans but end up being something else. Otherwise we wouldn't need therapy to filter them out (well, except for dealing with the emotions that Johnny-Boy seems to lack concerning her body).

...before this escalates much further, can we agree to disagree?