Can We Really Pass?

[Guest Patricia]

Hi,

I posted this in reply tro a topic that came up on another forum and I thought I would toss it out here:

This question of should we try to pass constantly comes up as it is a rather important issue. If you really think about it is also a lot more complicated than it might seem.

I see a lot of postings in which CDs say they almost always pass, or usually pass or even never pass. I feel these comments are irrelevant in most cases. There are too many factors and invariables at work. For example, the younger you are the more likely you are to pass in many cases because the features of younger men more resemble those of young women. As males get older facial features become harder. Sometimes with older males features may soften and a senior CD might then pass more often. Gaining or losing weight could be a factor.

First of all, as a general rule we should at least try to pass. Most people are busy, and if we look reasonably well they will probably not take out the time to look so closely at us. You could argue that this is really means being ignored or blending in and that is not a bad thing, especially for some of the larger CDs who might have trouble passing. Still, if you try to pass, you at least have a chance at achieving this situation.

If you go to a store or restaurant and are treated well, even called Ma’am, are you really sure the person you are dealing with truly feels you are a genuine GG? Is this person just being polite? How can you tell? The first time you meet someone like this you might pass, but would you pass if you kept going back, say four or five times? More than likely the person would eventually read you but might well still play along if you are dressed well and behaved properly. Can you really be sure what the other person is thinking? That person might just feel uncomfortable addressing a person en femme as “Sir,” and might even be afraid to!

In the end result you can only be reasonably sure you are passing through a considerable amount of interchange over a long period of time with a person. A one time deal with 10 different persons is not a good standard to use for passing. You might have a good “first time” passing ratio. What about the second or fifth time? Ten times with one person could be a good standard, however, if that person constantly treats you as a female. Still, how sure can you be? Sometimes guys make a pass at us. This does not mean that we are really passing but only at that one moment in time you have passed. It might not happen the second time you meet that person. Hence the best thing is never to get involved this way. It’s far too dangerous.

If you want to talk about real or genuine passing then you need a definition and some criteria. The ultimate passing would seem to be knowing someone who sees you fairly often, has no clue that you are male and treats you as a normal friend, accepting you just as any other female friend. In a case something like this you can say with a high degree of certainty that you are passing. Anything other than this is a lower or lesser degree of passing.

If you can go out and about en femme, be treated well, and are generally accepted, then you can say you are accepted. This is an achievable goal for a lot of and even most CDs. Passing is perhaps something you can keep in the back of your mind as a goal to work toward but not one you might actually achieve.

I once paraphrased Abe Lincoln and with no disrespect made for this truly great man, changed his words,

“You can pass with some of the people some of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot pass with all of the people all of the time.”

Patricia

[Guest Dawn D.]

Patricia,

Good thread! As it would happen I just last eve, went out to dinner with my wife. I was in full femme. This is a first for us. So to say I was a little apprehensive would be an understatement. However, I have been out in public at other times just never set myself down to be looked upon by so many for such an extended time frame. As it would happen, it turned out very well. Did I pass? Well, yes and no. The hostess/waitress read me right off, though she was never anything but professional and courteous. As for the patrons there(and the place was packed), I never once caught notice of anyone else there that figured it out! There were many times I noticed casual glances but no wide eyed mouth agape stares or finger pointing.

I don't believe I have any illusions about trying to pass consistantly. As a percentage, it would be my hope and I'll consider passing successful if I can guage it at between 60-80% of the time. I do dress in an attempt to blend. Although I will never leave the house looking haggard or ragged as some GG's (or GM's for that matter, when in drab) I've seen in local grocery stores and such. I think that I have a need to make sure that I present as positive a female image as I can muster when I am en femme. I am a newly turned 50 year old TG/CD. My body can pull off a fairly good female image, but, it takes a bit of makeup for me to pull off what ever level of passing that I can. However the effort thus far is worth it. My wife and I are going out again tonite and we'll see how well it goes. Different restaurant, same intent. That is, to present as female enough to gain a respect for what it is that so many of us wish would happen, too just let us be ourselves and to show that we really are just everday people!

Dawn

[Guest Sally Stone]

Patricia,

I guess it is only natural for us to want to pass as genetic females when we are dressed. If we pass it certainly tends to make us more comfortable. I agree though that worrying about passing can consume our thoughts. I also believe that a girl who believes she passes well has passed the most important test. Who really cares what other people think as long as you are okay with yourself.

When I dress I don't think I consciously try to pass although I do try to present the best possible female image I can. I think I can have a very acceptable female image even though I know I don't actually pass. Imitating a genetic woman is particularly difficult when you are 6 feet 2 inches tall before you put heels on. There is no way I can honestly blend in with the other girls. In spite of my height, I also know that my feminine image is adequate. Presenting a great feminine image is good enough for me. Actually, I am comfortable enough in my own skin that I don't feel the need to look like a real girl. I'm happy knowing that I'm just a well dressed crossdresser.

Not having to fret over my ability to pass heightens the crossdressing experience. When you aren't burdened by the need to pass, crossdressing is so much more fun.

We don't have to be beauty queens to enjoy the riches of the feminine experience: at least that's my take on the situation.

Hugs,

Sally

[Guest Massu]

I guess I agree with Sally... I'm pretty sure I don't pass (big forehead and fairly thin hair to start with, and I'm only 22!) no matter what I try, but I try not to dwell on it. I've found that the less I try deliberately to pass, the more likely it is that people will, if not regard me as female, treat me with respect. I've been "ma'am"-ed while half asleep, drooling into my airplane pillow with a full day's worth of stubble on my face. It's definitely all in how you think of yourself. ^^;

Trying to force myself to pass only made me more anxious, and my fiancee more depressed-- trying to cram myself into a very narrow definition of woman stunted my idea of what a woman is, and hurt her self-esteem. What sort of an idea of feminine beauty do we have that it usually takes a 6' tall crossdresser to achieve it? That's pretty messed up.

I know that I look really silly in women's clothing, but I'm happy doing it, and people pick up on it. One of the last times I went out in public as to a Christmas party at a GLBT bookstore and cafe in Nashville. I wound up shaking hands and talking to a city councilwoman who had come to the tree lighting. I didn't care whether or not I looked enough like a woman, and was just happy that I thought I looked good that evening. That's all that mattered.

[Guest Patricia]

I know that I look really silly in women's clothing, but I'm happy doing it, and people pick up on it. One of the last times I went out in public as to a Christmas party at a GLBT bookstore and cafe in Nashville. I wound up shaking hands and talking to a city councilwoman who had come to the tree lighting. I didn't care whether or not I looked enough like a woman, and was just happy that I thought I looked good that evening. That's all that mattered.

Hi Massu,

You need more confidence! You have got to abandon your negative attitude because if you don't you are going to be needlessly beaten from the start. If I can't pass very much with my small stature, you certainly aren't with your large stature. Don't worry as it's totally unimportant!

In so many postings the general feeling is that the key element to being a successful CD is attitude and behavior.

You noted:

“I didn't care whether or not I looked enough like a woman, and was just happy that I thought I looked good that evening. That's all that mattered.”

That’s is. You got it. Do your very best to dress in a way that complements your physique and suits your personality. This means in your mind you should be dressing with the goal of passing. Leave no stone unturned. This will give you confidence and help you have the right attitude. Get out of your head that you look silly in woman’s clothing. This is a defeatist attitude, and should be eradicated. You might well pass on occasion, as there are a lot of tall, masculine looking GGs out there. If you look your very best and are passing at least in your own mind, in by far the most cases you will be accepted. This is a realistic and achievable goal. This is not just my personal opinion, by the way, but one I have come across frequently from experienced CDs. One CD made a wonderful posting that went something like “I always pass, ….in my own mind.” Way to go!

If you believe in yourself and you have dressed as well as you can, you should have a great time experiencing your female aspect.

Wishing you the very best.

Patricia

The hardcore CD

[Guest Rita Arlene]

Hi

Passing is a combination of many things, physical appearance, behavior, attitude and self-expression. Your physical appearance is the thing everyone observes first. As I get older I find it easier to pass - or at least – to be more readily accepted as a woman. How one behaves in public is also very important. When I first started venturing out I was very self-conscious and was absolutely sure everyone was watching just me. I didn’t walk with confidence, always looked away if someone was looking directly at me, didn’t smile at anyone and in general tried to be totally unseen which, of course was impossible. When I started observing women and how they act in public, how they walk, how they use their hands, how they stand when talking to other women, what they do with a purse at checkout, etc., I realized that I needed a lot of practice emulating what I observed if I was ever going to be at least somewhat “passable”. To effectively present a good – but likely not perfect – female image, one must display as many feminine behaviors possible that express societal perceptions of what a woman looks like and how she acts in public. For a M to F crossdresser to have any hope of “passing” her deportment and self-confidence must be as naturally feminine as possible. I am sure that many people know - or at least suspect - that I am not a genetic woman when they see me, but I no longer concern myself with which ones they are and go about my business just as any woman does. I walk, sit, talk, and behave with a confidence that leaves most naysayers at least questioning whether I am female or not. I have spent many hours developing a reasonably good female voice that also helps me be “passable”. I have had several makeovers and learned a great deal about effective use of makeup to highlight my desirable feminine features and to disguise my undesirable features. During these sessions I also learned how to walk and sit like a woman. I am also very aware of the fact that as I get older I must dress age appropriate when going out. The other thing I am very aware of is the places I choose to go so I don’t intentionally put myself in harms way. I am also fortunate to have a few male friends with whom I can go out – especially in the evening. You would be amazed at how much more readily I am accepted as a female if a man is escorting me. Now days, if I am ever hassled when out in public, it is typically by a group of teenagers and usually teenage girls. My overall feelings of happiness as well as safety have been greatly enhanced knowing that I present a good – if not perfect – feminine image when out in public, and this has helped make my life much more pleasant.

Rita

[Guest JoAnnDallas]

I have only been going out in public since 2005. Only recently have I gone out dressed with my wife. She was impressed on how well I blended in while we were out. Many of my sisters in my Tri-Ess chapter have pondered this question. We decieded that

Going Out Everyday

1. Dress to blend in. - This way you will be the least noticeable. I would not wear a mini, fishnet stockings, big boobs, and 5" spike heels.

2. Act like you belong where your are at. - That is don't act nervious. Act normal. Acting nervious gets you noticed.

3. Act like you have done this all you life.

4. Smile at anyone that looks at you. - If you look at someone and they smile at you, you tend to smile back then look away. It's not polite to stare at someone.

Going out Clubing

1. Dress however you like. If this is a mini, fishnet stockings, big boobs, and 5" spike heels, then go for it.

2. Act like you belong where your are at. - That is don't act nervious. Act normal. Acting nervious gets you noticed.

3. Act like you have done this all you life.

4. Smile at anyone that looks at you. - If you look at someone and they smile at you, you tend to smile back then look away. It's not polite to stare at someone.

Also we have come up with the following attitude toward PASSING

1. If you go out dressed and nothing happens - YOU PASSED

2. If you go out dressed and someone reads you, but does nothing about it - YOU PASSED - Note: you would not know they read you anyway. LOL

3. If you go out dressed and someone reads you, winks or smiles at you to let you know but does nothing about it - YOU PASSED

As long as others treat you with respect and as the gender you are presenting, then it does not matter if they read you or not - YOU PASSED.

[Guest Evan_J]

Excellent stuff.

I need to keep this list actually as reassurance when I'm out. Thank you.

[Guest Storm Angel]

Hey this thread is really cool! this helps heaps with my self confidence

I transitioned almost two years ago, I have been living fulltime about one year now, even before HRT!

I found a way to dress and style according to how I appeared wearing female clothes, startiing of with the more androgynous attire, and gradually becoming more 'femme'

Half the people I meet know I'm a girl and trat me as a girl, other still do confuse me as a guy.. though they don't seem to treat me like a 'Bloke' which actually feels good too.

The only times I dress or look boyish is at work, though I do present and express myself female despite the attire

xo

[Guest Vieja]

Patricia

Passing would be great and for a while I thought it would be easy. Dressing at home was not easy but I managed a few times and thought I was doing OK. Then I became aquanted with another CD and at her house I really for the first time with her help got it all together and even tried some of her dresses on. I was really thrilled. She took pictures and gave me a set and later at home I looked them over with a critical eye and reality set in. I looked like a dumpy old man in a dress. Blech! I went out a few times to local malls and walked around in the parking lot after dark and no one paid any attention to me but I never tried to go inside or to a store. Maybe one day with a little professional help I will look good enough to try going in.

Vieja

[Guest Becky Lynn]

Hi,

I'm a small guy to begin with my body structure is more feminin than masculine, I wear a women's 8M shoe, my wife is bigger than I am. If my makeup and wig look right I don't seem to have much trouble. I look in the mirror and say to myself " I've seen a heck of a lot more uglier women out there than that, and if someone pegs me for a guy then they have problems". I'm no beauty queen, I'm no dog either. Other than a few stares and double takes. I recall only one bad instance. I was at a mall one day and a couple of a..hole teenage girls found me out. They followed me thru the whole mall carrying on. I finally shook them off by going out to my car. I was in a store one time and an older lady came up to me and complimented me for wearing a dress, that more women should be like me.

Bearyblossoms

[Guest Treefish]

I really enjoyed reading this thread, hehe. I think the best 'passing' story I have is that when I told my best friend about me, she goes, "What, you want to be a boy...?" Which amused be, since I was born a boy and apparently I'm a very passable girl.

[Guest shaver]

That's a hoot Treefish!

[Guest ~Phoebe~]

Passing is a state of mind IMHO. I think most people don’t really care what your wearing. As long as the clothes are appropriate for the occasion. Myself I don't appear fully female, my face is aged and has male features. I dress quite a lot and people in my apartment building don't say anything. A few I can see they don't exactly approve by their facial expressions, but that is their opinion and I really don’t care what they think. Going shopping is sometimes pleasant. Yesterday I went shoe shopping and the SA was very accepting and said the shoes looked nice. Of course the sale was important for her commission but felt I "passed" as a part time female.

[Guest debbie s]

All this advice is well said. Dress approprate for your age and the occasion. I enjoy shopping and doing everyday errands in full femme attire and will add I never am the least suspected when I am with my bf as a companion. When alone I dont even think about it but just carry on like this is normal and no one cares. Rarely have I had a problem. Yet I know most cds carry fears that everyone is looking at them which is rarely true unless you are dressed outrageously lol. Stop being afraid now girls

[Guest Wendae]

I'm getting out more frequently now and all I want is to blend in. Better yet ignore me unless you are a S/A in a store.

A piece of advice from a TS I met at my Tri-ess meeting was that you don't get all dressed up to go to Walmart. Go casual. Casual clothing isn't really my thing but, getting out and not getting hasseled or clocked is more important.

[Guest rikkicd64]

Great post and great followups, I am full time and I just believe in myself, I am a woman, I have had very good results and I use all the advice posted above.Thanks everyone.

Rikki...

[Guest ~Phoebe~]

Hope this is alright to post a link to a article about passing from the Montreal Gazzete "Transgender Issues: To Pass or Not To Pass?" http://blogs.montrea...or-not-to-pass/

[Guest Sarah Miller]

Anybody noticed if they drive differently when fem? I don't want to start a heated debate about so called differences in gender automobile driving but I drove for the first time en femme the other night and noticed I'm a lot calmer and a little slower on the gas. Not that my male self drives like a maniac but I definitely did feel different. I was about wanting to get out of the car and walk about town, I pulled into a carpark and there were police checking out cars. I decided it would be best to leave and not draw any unwanted attention. Instead a stop to the Cash machine (I walked passed 2 girls and they didn't even look twice) was the highlight of my night but I did enjoy walking the pavement in low heeled boots. I didn't just PASS, I nailed it!

xxo Sarah-Jane

[Guest Luuceee]

I went out for a drive quite a while back, i tend to drive sensible as a male but even more so as a female. There is no way id drive with heels on though i doubt id be able to operate the pedals lol.

[Guest ~Phoebe~]

Very possible about passing and was not really trying to appear feminine. In the last two days I have been addressed as a 'lady'. At my apartment building getting on the elevator with another lady a guest held the elevator door from closing by standing in the doorway. She asked 'are you ladies going up?' The other lady responded yes I am going to 9th floor and I said I was going to 8th floor. She said "oh I am going to 9th floor also."

Then today I was at the grocery store and the checkout person asked if I wanted my groceries in plastic or paper. I said I would bag my own groceries, then another employee came and she started to bag my groceries. The checkout person said, "this lady wants to bag her own groceries."

Both days wearing a woman's peasant blouse and women's jeans, two small stud earrings in each ear and a heart necklace, white tennis shoes with pink laces. A few months ago I had a hair perm , maybe I appeared feminine? Was kind of nice in a way.

[Guest rachel38]

Saw a magazine artical a few years ago on cd & tg it had about a dozen pictures. Some of the ones you thought for sure were men wern't and vise versa.I think with the right makeup hair and with some pratice walking I could pass from across the street .Up close would be harder but the voice would be a dead giveaway.

[Guest Janice Lynn]

Anybody noticed if they drive differently when fem? I don't want to start a heated debate about so called differences in gender automobile driving but I drove for the first time en femme the other night and noticed I'm a lot calmer and a little slower on the gas. Not that my male self drives like a maniac but I definitely did feel different. I was about wanting to get out of the car and walk about town, I pulled into a carpark and there were police checking out cars. I decided it would be best to leave and not draw any unwanted attention. Instead a stop to the Cash machine (I walked passed 2 girls and they didn't even look twice) was the highlight of my night but I did enjoy walking the pavement in low heeled boots. I didn't just PASS, I nailed it!

xxo Sarah-Jane

I drive about 100 miles each way to and from my gender therapist every few

weeks and I admit to driving differently when I am casually dressed as the

woman I am within. I drive a bit more slowly and less aggressively simply

because even though I have a copy of a letter from my therapist in the

glove box just in case I am pulled over by a cop. Even more, I do not want

to be involved in an accident and deal with what would be a really difficult

situation involving proof of insurance, driver's licenses, etc. Frankly I can

pull things off visually quite well according to my wife, but my voice just

doesn't cut it yet.

[Guest KatyDesire]

Paradoxically, the less we pass, especially when no comment is made, the more we expose the rest of the world to the fact that we are real and we are here. I want to be accepted as me. A Scot passes as a man in a kilt - that is, a certain type of skirt. If one some days I look like an old man, on some like an old woman, and on some like an old man dressed as an old woman - well that is who I am.

And if anyone doesnt like it, thats their problem, not mine.

So walk proud, girls.

Hugs to you all.

Katy.