Explaining The Distribution Of Sexual Orientation Among Transgendered Poeple

[Guest praisedbeherhooves]

Well, I seem to be hearing a rather unusual argument against transgender people. As some studies have shown that the majority of transwomen are attracted to women and that the majority of transmen are attracted to men, some people argue that if we really had the minds of our inner gender then the distribution of sexual orientation would be the same as cisgender people. Currently I have formulated these argumets to counter them

The social pressure argument: Many transwomen have had heterosexuality pushed on them from a very young age. Very few genetic women have been told that not being a lesbian would make them a pervert. Since sexual orientation is possibly influenced by the environmetn to some extent transwomen might not be able to let go of their programming. These same transwomen may have considered themselves bisexual or straight if they had been raised as women because of the pressure for heterosexuality they would have experienced.

The nothing-to-lose argument: Transgender people are already LGBT so if they were attracted to their mental sex then they wouldn't be losing much to admit it.

The combination argument: Some argue that the majority of people are bisexual. These same people often argue that the reason why most people call themselves straight is because society pressures them to from a very young age. Since transgender people were pressured to be attracted to their mental sex, they are more likely to be molded to be LGB.

Do you have any comments on these arguments or any more ideas for them?

[Guest Soph]

I'd run the nothing-to-lose argument or the combination argument. The social pressure one is too explicit in the implications that sexuality isn't biologically determined, which would really be a reprehensible argument to run.

I personally believe the nothing-to-lost over the others, though, or something akin. We go through so much, and need so much introspection, that running across our true sexual identity kinda happens with the process.

[Guest BeckyTG]

It's my belief that people who argue things like this are revealing that either they have a low tolerance level or are completely ignorant of the true nature of gender and sex.

People are sexually attracted to who they are attracted to. This cannot be trained. Ask any gay person who's struggled with the idea of being gay and has attempted to "go straight" or "get cured" through therapy or anything else. It doesn't work. We're attracted to who we're attracted to. So What?

Regarding gender identity, well, we've all pretty much agreed here at Laura's that the only people who can really understand transgenderism are transgenders themselves. Even professional therapists with a lot of training in GID will admit that THEY don't always have the best understanding of what it really means and how it works.

By discussing these things with others and attempting to "educate" them, you're effectively talking politics and religion with people--tempers will flare, conversations may get heated, but no one is changing a thing in their own mind.

Best to just smile and walk away.

Hugs,

Becky

[Guest Donna Jean]

Very subjective ......

There's no way for it to be cut and dried....

There are plenty of people out there that are basically hetro, but, at one poing`t in their lives find themselves attracted to someone of the same sex...

Does that make them gay?

We have a convienent term for that....Bi-sexual...a lot easier on the brain than gay...

And, with Trans people there are WAY too many variables to even make any determination...

For instance...

I've been with genetic women all my life (Me as a male...) it's what I was supposed to do....

And that's still my perference...

But!

If I fell in love with a Trans woman like myself...where does that put me?

Would I be Hetro for loving the old male part of them?

Would I be Lesbian for loving the female part?

Am I Lesbian for still loving my wife all of these years....even though it was a male-female relationship (and hetro)?

Would my Trans woman partner be Lesbian for loving the female me?

Would she be straight if she loved the old male part of me?

I feel that trying to pin down Trans peoples sexuality is really futile....we're too fluid...

There is no absolute to start with ....no begining point.

We are what we are...

We love whom we love...

Donna Jean

[Guest N. Jane]

It might not be a popular view but if one accepts the "cross-gender hormone exposure" (eg. lack of androgen exposure at a critical time of brain developments for MtF) as being the root cause of transsexualism/transgender then it makes sense that those who were most effected would be the most "stereotypical" for the opposite (to physical) gender - i.e. the most girly as children, the least able to adapt, and the most likely to be "straight" in their target gender.

This would agree with what I saw around me 35 to 40 years ago among "Type VI transsexuals".

[Guest Ryles_D]

First of all- Is it that most of us are gay or that most of us aren't straight? There's a giant difference. According to http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/in...?showtopic=1447 most people aren't gay, even if most people aren't straight either (although straight is the majority, it's just less htan 50%). According to http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/in...showtopic=14085 most people aren't straight, but most people are bi (although it's all kind of even for trans guys).

I've seen a lot of transwomen realize they're attracted to men after transition, or who repressed their sexuality with their gender, and a lot of transmen who came out as lesbians before transitioning. And I'm sure the same goes fro transguys. And a lot more seem to be bi/pan than anything.

But either way- I think it's mostly socialization. I've seen a lot of trans women, even the ones married to women or who never thought they'd be attracted to a man, transition and find themselves straight or bi. It's also possible that because trans people are encouraged to be gay (heh, not that they realize this), we don't face the same issue of having our attraction internalized as being wrong unless we're straight. It's entirely possible that way more people aren't straight- but they try to make themselves because there's still so much stigma against being anything else.

It doesn't help that we ignore people who aren't gay or straight. I've never found a decent statistic on how many people are bisexual- and it's pretty likely that the statistics on asexuals are grossly underrated. The only ones we have actually show that the numbers for gays and asexuals are on par- (1% for both in that study, but other studies indicate that homosexuality is more like 4-10%). So until we know all that and get rid of the social pressure to be straight, we'll never know for sure how the numbers for trans people and cis people measure up.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

We are what we are...

We love whom we love...

That's my way of looking at it too. My therapist agrees - it turns out.

I would add, the rules don't apply to transpeople, it's too complicated. I now just write 'bisexual' and hope that pleases the gate-keepers.

As to why it's complicated? This is a different take - one that applies to me - and maybe I am the only one in the world that feels this way? (sound familiar?)

I do not like men! (apologies to the FTM here) They have been mean to me my entire life! I don't like what they are, how they think, how they live their lives! Of course - there are exceptions - but not many.

I simply DO NOT LIKE MEN!

So it can be inferred, I like women? BINGO!

All my life I would always seek out their company - I loved how they thought, and how they treated me. I mean, not necessarily romantic love - but rather just being with them. So where did that put me when I was fueled by hormones - when I was developing my 'love focus?" OBVIOUS.

And I was supposed to lov women, as everyone expected me to act as 'male' as I appeared. PERFECT!

So I thought this would be simple, when I transitioned fully, I would just be in a lesbian mode then - I mean me as a woman loving women, what else!

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrruttttttttttttt - WRONG

Ummm... men have their uses apparently! I mean who else is around to do the heavy lifting? And ummmm... men and women 'fit' during love-making. That has me wondering... I wanna know what that's like.

And I also know something else - a confession here... SHHHHHHHHHH

A transgirl understands me completely. She won't reject me or ridicule me - or othewise give me the grief a natal woman or a natal man would prone to do? I haven't thought about a Tman - maybe? But a Tgirl? If she loves me too? She is of course a woman, and I love women...

So

What Dee Jay says?

We are what we are...

We love whom we love...

COMPLICATED? Yes it is.

LIZZ the BETH

[Guest Maelee]

Ever since high school, I have always thought of myself as a lesbian. In fact, I even admitted it once when a girl on my school bus asked me if I was gay and I said yes, I am a lesbian stuck in a man's body. I have always been drawn towards women and everything feminine. The thing I never really admitted to myself though was the fact that it was not sexual.

But one day I was watching Daniel Craig in Casino Royale when I thought to myself "Wow, he is hot." It was like I had to do a double take to see where that came from. This was before I had started HRT in 2008 but it was after I came out to my family and friends. That summer was sort of a time of soul searching about what I was going to do and where I was heading. It was like I had been afraid to admit it to myself, since I was so buried in my disguise of being a man that I could not face up to how I really felt.

But after that sort of shocking moment I went back and looked at how I had really felt about sex, sexuality, and my role in it. Since the first time I remember thinking about sex and looking at the pornography that my brother collected (he was 3 years older then me), I always wanted to be the female. Now since I had to hide myself and pass for male, which I always felt I had to do, I always put myself mentally as a lesbian. That way I could still have the female position but then still be able to stay hidden as male. The truth was though, that was not the role that I wanted or that felt right to me. Since I had finally came to the realization I no longer had to hide as male I realized I could finally have the partner that I preferred and always fantasized about being with, a male.

You would think your own sexuality would be self evident but I really think it was the socialization that made me think that since I was told I had to get a girl, combined with my attraction to the feminine, that I was a lesbian. I guess what I am trying to say is that it was socialization that kept me from realizing where my own sexuality lay. Once I broke free of that socialization telling me I had to be a man, I could recognize where I really lay, so to speak

As far as trying to educate people about transgender sexuality, I totally agree with Becky. You can talk till you are blue in the face and they will still walk away with their preset ideas. Plus, I think as a group, any statistics people try to apply to the transgender population is totally skewed. We are far to diverse of a group with a large portion living in stealth. How can you accurately gather statistics on a group that a large portion is hidden?

Gahh, way to big of a post, sorry for the wall of text

Love and *hugs*

Mae

[Guest Ryles_D]

Plus, I think as a group, any statistics people try to apply to the transgender population is totally skewed. We are far to diverse of a group with a large portion living in stealth. How can you accurately gather statistics on a group that a large portion is hidden?

I agree with this. The statistics of how many transgendered people there are in general are far too wide (1/500 to 1/200,000) to be taken seriously. Someone did a decent study of how many women have had bottom surgery in the US (information from surgeons) over the past however many years to guess how many post-op transsexuals are walking around- but even that ignores people who go out of country for it. And the number of post-ops is probably far smaller than the number of people who only take hormones or who don't medically transition at all. If you can't even figure out how many of us there are, how are you supposed to find out what a reasonable sample is to do a study like that on us?

[Guest Sunshine]

I actually struggle trying to figure out my own orientation. Have lived in hiding of sorts from both sides, I was really confused.

Honestly, I am very "weak in the knees" attracted to men, but because of my own issues with my own physiology I don't act upon it. I've forced myself to get through it with a few guys, but even though they find me attractive in that way, and I want to have the intimacy with them, my own hangups about my own body get in the way.

With women, it is possible to have an intimate physical relationship without my pants ever having to come off, sooooo when there is sexual presure from another woman, I tend to go with it.

I don't know what this makes me, but I call myself bi for now.

When I no longer have the physiological mis match, it might be different. Wether it'll mean I can be open to an ltr with a man or a woman, I don't know, but it will give me the chance to figure it out.

[Guest Leigh]

i have a thought to add, though i'm not sure how much i even believe it.

people who are already "gay" who might be transgendered don't feel the same need to transition because in some ways they are able to live in a slightly more socially accepted manner and kind of in their preferred gender role.

this is totally based off of one gay guy i know who has had trans feelings but thinks it would be too difficult/doesn't feel as strongly that he wants to transition.

peace&love