Hrt And The 'fe-male' You!

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora all,

Now many members and guests might be wondering what will happens to their bodies physically when they start HRT... Well to put it in simple layman's terms which most of us can easily understand ...

Apart from the possible psychlogical impact -mood swings - emotional roller coaster ride etc that can occur... HRT simply shifts body fats around ...Depending on the type of HRT [testosterone or estrogen]the fat migrates to body areas more appropriate...Say for example those with a male bone structure it migrates to the face - chest - hip areas etc...creating a more androgynous look -that is a fe-male version[body fat wise] of the MALE bone structured YOU... To a certain extent [to what amount would depend on ones metabolism] you will end up with boobs and an increase of fat around your hips etc...Hence the 'female ' version of the male 'bone structured' you! What else could one turn into but a female /male version of ones former self...You can paint [hrT] over the picture but can't change the canvas[bone structure]

However if you are already somewhat 'androgynous' in looks and body then the chances are HRT will work wonders -[if so, this will eliminate the need for expensive FFS ...One can't do much about ones height however ones face seems to be the target area for blending in- more so than height]...In some cases fat migration to the chest area 'boobs' is lacking for some and a boob job might also be called for...

I know some of you may have read my other posts in which I've mentioned HRT effects but I thought I will reiterate...Remember this is just a ROUGH guideline... when it comes to HRT NOTHING is set in concrete...

Up to the age of 25 one should get around 100% impact...and no I don't mean you will look like a stunningly beautiful female or handsome male I just mean it will be working to its full capacity if you already look somewhat attractive in an androgynous way then all the better...

25 to 35 - 75%...

35 to 45 - 50%

over 45 it's pot luck what happens - some 45 and overers have reported excellent results..It all depend on what Mother Nature had provided you with...

One does not have to be a brain surgeon to know HRT will have little if any impact on bone structure if starting at a late age... Unless that is one starts HRT at a very young age or starts hormone 'blocker' before reaching puberty - who really know what will happen...

Normally between 18 and 24 months on HRT the candle burns out so to speak [i'm speaking mainly from a trans female perspective]- apart from slight increase in breast growth[which some say will continue for around five years] little else will change...You have by then reached the FEMALE version of your former MALE self...

I know as well as you do that we are all unique "One person's meat is another's poison etc etc"...HRT WILL NOT have exactly the same impact on all people... As I've said again and again just like before...Mother Nature deals the cards... it's just the luck of the draw!!!

"If you don't change the direction you're going in..you'll end up where you're meant to be!!!" Think about it....

Regardless of the outcome I truely hope you will be happy with the 'female or male' versions of your true selves....

WellI hope this info did you a 'fat lot of good' [excuse the pun but I coudn't resist it]

Metta Jendar and DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY!!!

[Guest Michelle M]

That's lots of good basic info, I hope others curious HRT will get some help from this. I know I could have used a post like this when I first started out and was curious about trans. Also, testosterone seems very powerful. If any of you have seen the FTM, Lando, on Maury Povich show, it's amazing. He started taking it when he was 18 with a female body, and it completely changed his face. You really can't tell at all that he used to be a girl. I've always wondered why there is FFS (feminizing facial surgery) but there's no MFS (masculinizing facial surgery.) I guess because testosterone is so powerful?

[Guest Leah1026]

Up to the age of 25 one should get around 100% impact.

Okay we need to clarify this again:

HRT response at ANY age is a crap shoot. Starting earlier in general is better, but no guarantees. As I've stated before I know people who have started young, one was 21, and they got virtually NO breast development. So stating anyone up to the age 25 gets 100% impact is misleading and sets some people up for disappointment.

[Guest gwenthlian]

Ive also wondered why there is no fms. Well done for this post, wish it had been here when i started to discover what I was. The internet is full of contradictory information ^^

[Guest Leah1026]

Ive also wondered why there is no fms. Well done for this post, wish it had been here when i started to discover what I was. The internet is full of contradictory information ^^

Actually there are surgeons out there that do do masculinizing facial surgery. The thing is, like Michelle said, there usually isn't a need for it in FtM's as the T does such an amazing job. It's much easier to masculinze a female body than to feminize a male one. The exception being bottom surgery, but I think that somewhere along the line that problem will be solved. And I'm not thinking strictly traditional surgery either. I think that through manipulating stem cells or some such, scientists will figure out how to get more natural development in conjunction with HRT. So that a clitoris will enlarge to the size of a penis for FtM's and that MtF's will get fuller breast development.

[Guest Michelle M]

If one happens to be one of those unfortunate people, I was wondering; can surgeons make breasts from nothing, or does something have to be there in the first place to augment? It would be awful to be that 21 year old and always have to wear breastforms.

Okay we need to clarify this again:

HRT response at ANY age is a crap shoot. Starting earlier in general is better, but no guarantees. As I've stated before I know people who have started young, one was 21, and they got virtually NO breast development. So stating anyone up to the age 25 gets 100% impact is misleading and sets some people up for disappointment.

[Guest Leah1026]

Here are a couple sites that seemed to have potential and I saw some posts that were from FtM's!

http://www.jawaugmentation.com/

http://www.facialplasticsurgery.net/

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Leah and others...

I didn't think I was not misleading anybody well apart from you Leah it seems... I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear... The KEY to this POST is when practical THE YOUNGER ONE IS WHEN STARTING HRT THE BETTER...In many cases adolescences are still quite androgynous in appearance[plenty of room for change] so HRT tends to work better and my ROUGH guidelines are just that ROUGH!...As to whether HRT will works wonder on you would greatly depends on one metabolism and whether ones canvas is 'androgynously' prepared ...And like many things in life 'the younger we start the better results' Prevention in the form of HRT at a young age- is more likely to give better results than trying to cure the late transitioner 45 plus where the chances of success are greatly reduced -Unless that is, one starts HRT at 60+ when androgyny tends to creep back up on them naturally...

Another interesting thing is to do with one ethnicity/race ....To the European eye on the 'whole' Asian and African people tend to be more androgynous looking ...But in saying that if a European trans-woman lived in Asian or Africa they would also stand a better chance of 'passing' than the locals...

Well as for meI have Afro-Saxon blood [Jamaican English]and didn't start my gender affirming till in my mid forties but I was one of the 'lucky' androgynous looking ones to start off with - I'm 160 cm[5ft 4in] 60kg with fine bone structure...The only surgical procedure I needed was way down low...So for you late transitioners there's still hope!...And as for you youngones go with the flow and enjoy what life as to offer...Bit the bullet -feel the fear and do it anyway... Fear cuts both ways we either panic and seize up or go with the flow of the adrenaline rush go wuth your flow...I wish you good fortune coated with heaps of confidence...

If it was not for having and or giving 'hope' where would the human race be???? In my book there's no such thing as 'false' hope...

Metta Jendar

[Guest gwenthlian]

I have a few hormone quetsions that I thought I would post here.

1. Is it possible to hide the effects of hormones? Not from parents but from classmates for example or collegues.

2. About how long is it between the first therapist appointment and a trip to the pharmacy for the hormones? Ive heard its about a year but thought id ask here anyway.

3 How much longer does the above take when using the NHS?

Thanks in advance,

xxx Gwenthlian

[Guest Leah1026]

If it was not for having and or giving 'hope' where would the human race be???? In my book there's no such thing as 'false' hope...

When you write people under 25 will get 100% results that's exactly what you're doing. In my view you're only giving the younger ones false hopes, because as you said NOTHING can fix height. Hormones also have little affect on weight, so if one is overweight they still have to work their butt off to lose it. HRT does NOTHING for voice and that, IMO, is the biggest challenge of transition! Also hair loss can be an issue for some MtF's, even under 25.

Up to the age of 25 one should get around 100%

You're helping to re-enforce the already existing myth that youth conquers all and that simply isn't true in regards to transition. The reality is hormones only do so much and that we all have to make peace with our bodies. Like you I was androgenous. Like you I am of a good height (5'6") and weight. I've got a good head of hair and a good voice attained from lots of practice. And yet I struggle to accept my body at times because I know I should be shorter, lighter, and that my rib cage and hands should be smaller. I'm done with transition physically, but like most people, I will be working on the mental aspects for years to come.

And I'm NOT being negative. I just want people to get as accurate information as possible. Unforunately no matter when you start HRT the only thing that is true is:

Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV)

[Guest Madison_Always]

I dont think jendar is saying all mtf under 25 will get 100% results i think she is saying that the younger u r the more likely you are to get results from hrt. at least thats what i got out of it.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora

Now now Leah when you say you're not being negative [pessimistic] it sounds a little like 'youth envy' to me....Umm I wonder!!!! Leah if you read my post carefully you will find we are practically saying the same thing in regards to HRT ....only I'm into trying to boosting a person's self esteem by giving 'hope' in a somewhat 'positive' way...Plus giving them a optomistic 'realistic' approach to life...I know all about the other pros and cons of HRT but this I would like to remind you is a ROUGH guide nothing more nothing less...It just meant to give one a sense of what to expect... I'm sure when a person sees their endocrinologist he/she will explain the pros and cons of HRT in a professional and expert manner...

Sadly life's full of could be should be would bes at times and can be a real bummer for some especially those who only see the negative ...

Please Please Please Leah lighten up a little and enjoy life more...if you think positive life will be positive and your 'own' self esteem problems WILL gradually disappear ...Try to stop being so pessimistic...If you smile at life if will smile right back at you !

Metta Jendar

PS Leah you say you would like to be shorter and lighter why? what's wrong with your present height and weight ?Internalised transphobia can impact us all at times... Perhaps I or others in the forum can help you to overcome it...The offers on the table...

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora gwenthlian,

I can only answer one of the questions Yes you can hide the effects of HRT but again this would depend on what impact they have on a person for example Ellen a Dutch lady [whom I haven't seen in the forum for a while] She went for twenty years even after have surgery still living in male mode before finally coming out to the general public...Only her close family and medical professionals knew of her condition...So yes some can hide it for a while... As for the other questions I'm sure Samantha 'Kathie Louise' whose going through the NHS system can help you...Good luck...

Metta Jendar

[Guest]

When I was young I spoke in absolutes. As I got older I started learning that there are exceptions to almost every rule. When I started this site and started getting email from trans users I learned that much of what I knew and had read wasn't 100% correct. 4.6 million users later I am still learning some amazing things every single day. I learned to stop using the words "All" And "Everyone". While there are some who don't gain a lot of weight on HRT there are a large number who do. HRT results are not the same for every person either young or old. Then again that;s why there is FFS and plastic surgery . It's also not true that older TG's don't get good results, many do. The old rule of thumb says you will be a cup size smaller than mother or sister. Then again I've seen exceptions to that rule. Treatments for transsexuals and transgender are starting at an early age now, finally. Hormone blockers can be given at age ten and hormones at 16. Results in the future for these kids will be much better.

Instead of dealing in absolutes try dealing in percentages. When I see trends or have questions I start a poll or survey. You can easily do that here as it is a forum feature. If you want to prove a point do a poll. I am always surprised by the results. When I try to guess the possible results they are rarely what I thought they would be. Remember it's OK to have oppossing opinions as long as we can respect the others viewpoint and the person. So far so good.

[Guest savagedm]

Honestly I dont know what to expect from HRT but what I do know is that I battle with myself every day. I am generally a happy person because I have a large degree of control on where my life is going, even the TS aspect. However, I find that if I get any kind of stagnant time where I reflect on myself, I find myself questioning these decisions. Where before I made them I would question my identity almost every day, but looking back on my life I believe deciding to pursue HRT is the right choice. Sure I will lose out on a lot of things on life, but I believe I will gain so much more. I dont ever want to change my soul, being the way I am has given me a capacity for love and understanding that only grows with each passing day. Your identity is something you should call to question every day, because well.. just like religion, faith that is blind is dead faith. Do not ever shelve who you are and assume that you have truly discovered yourself. As Laura will probably attest, she is most certainly still discovering herself.

I encourage everyone to keep up the good work on the soul searching, and though you may detest your biological side now, I advise you keep it just as close as your trans self. Without that person you would not be who you are right now, the birth sex is just as integral to your personality as your gender identity. When you go through your transformations if you find that is the path for you, never forget where you came from and never be ashamed of who you are or will become!

~Brooke

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora all and thanks Laura for joining this discussion...

But sorry I'm at a bit of a loss when it comes to some of your comments Laura...Were you referring to some of my comments? Because I was under the impression I had made it quite clear by not using misleading terms like 'All or everybody' will or won't when talking about how things work...Ummm please enlighten me of my mistakes especially where I've dealt in 'absolutes' I'm more than happy to admit when I'm wrong or make clear what appears to be misleading...

If my comment about ffs was misleading I hope readers took note of the 'chances are' in... "However if you are already somewhat 'androgynous' in looks and body then the 'chances are' HRT will work wonders -[if so, this will eliminate the need for expensive FFS.] which is true btw...

Also regarding you remark about 'it not being true about older TGs not getting good results'...This is what I wrote..."over 45 it's pot luck what happens - 'some' 45 and overers[my new word for more than one over] have reported 'excellent' results"..It all depend on what Mother Nature had provided you with!"...

'Some' of us late transtioners can get good results without FFS being involved... it just depend on ones genetic make up-androgynous appearance before HRT...again this is also true...I have nothing against ffs except the price...

Finally the 100% 'impact' comment ...I used the term impact to try and put a point across ie, a young persons body is 'normally' more receptive to HRT ...in other word HRT will open fire all guns blazing hitting their target cells [somewhat uparmed cells that is]...The older one becomes the more defensive/resistant to attack the cells become to HRT bullets...No where in my post did I mention 100% 'results' ...only 100% 'impact'...and the terms impact and result do not mean the same thing...

Laura[and to Leah if she's reading this] if your post was meant to be 'in general' and not directed wrongly at my personal comments I truely apologise...However this has given me a chance to correct any misunderstanding.... Sadly the written word can at times be interpreted the 'wrong' way...[Mind you English is my second language...'Cockney's my first..."eef ya no wat ar meen'!!! ]

And finally dear 'Brooke'...You're on the right track just go with your flow and confidence will follow...

Metta Jendar

[MaryEllen]

Laura's comments were not directed at any one individual but to all. Points can be made without being directly confrontational. This is an excellent topic and it would be a shame to have to remove it because of tactless, rude replies. I would suggest that ALL replying to this topic carefully read rule G in the rules and regs forum. Again, this is not directed at any one individual but to ALL.

MaryEllen

[Guest Andrea-M]

The more I learn about HRT the more its seems to me we should just go with the flow and see how we turn out , some it may work wonders and some not. I'm just happy to have got mine and feel calmer already.

hugs

Andrea

:)

[Guest]

Laura's comments were not directed at any one individual but to all. Points can be made without being directly confrontational. This is an excellent topic and it would be a shame to have to remove it because of tactless, rude replies. I would suggest that ALL replying to this topic carefully read rule G in the rules and regs forum. Again, this is not directed at any one individual but to ALL.

MaryEllen

Yes comments are in general to all. Just general tips. There is a lot of information out there but a lot of it is based on a small number of TG's. There are few places that TG's gather in large numbers. The more people you talk too the better idea you get of the depth of community problems and issues. In the last year sites like this have seen huge increases in users. Our community has more members than anyone ever thought. So it follows that an increse in data on us will follow which gives a truer bigger picture. It will takes me years to write about everything I learned here and the data collected so far. So do remain very open to what people tell you even when they disagree with you. They just might be proven right eventually. I think the more we learn about each other the better and the more helpful we can be to everyone that comes here. The future looks bright.

Laura

[Guest o0tg0o]

I have a few hormone quetsions that I thought I would post here.

1. Is it possible to hide the effects of hormones? Not from parents but from classmates for example or collegues.

2. About how long is it between the first therapist appointment and a trip to the pharmacy for the hormones? Ive heard its about a year but thought id ask here anyway.

3 How much longer does the above take when using the NHS?

Thanks in advance,

xxx Gwenthlian

In response to your #1, haha, I have an advice...Ace Bandages haha, working for me so far..I think. That + 3 layers of shirts.

Other than that, HRT is doing good so far. Kinda poking through few of my shirts already soooooo I'm having to spend time in hawaii with 3 layers of shirts I'm working on being out soon. X-D Mostly my mother first.

[Guest Mr. Fox]

Long term binding can do weird things to your breasts, just a warning.

[Guest savagedm]

Long term binding can do weird things to your breasts, just a warning.

it might help my new school will be on the quarter system then >< i cannot imagine going 16 weeks with a binder if it's gonna F' up my breasts.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Leah,

I apologise if my past comments hurt your feelings...

I hope you will accept my sincere apologise...

"Some just see a 'flower' when others see a 'rose'! Who is right -who is wrong... no one really knows!"

Metta Jendar