Dysphoria Below Decks

[Remus]

Bit sleep-deprived so this may not make much sense, but...

Recently, despite the feeling-a-bit-better-about-not-quite-so-much-parental-repression thing, I've been really dysphoric about not having a penis and never being able to have one (a REAL one, not a stand-in like metoidioplasty etc.). It never used to bother me, it was pretty much just breasts that I was dysphoric about and not so much below decks, but the last fortnight or so, I don't know if it's 'cause I've been reading (and thus living vicariously through) rather a lot of Hetalia fanfiction (...yeah...), but I've just become really aware that I will never, ever have a penis, or know what it's like to be inside someone, or experience fellatio as the recipient... I will never have a prostate, and so never experience the same thing a bioguy does during anal sex (assuming 1) it's actually like it's described and 2) it actually ever happens).

I *know* this whole thing is not just about the sex, but the fact remains that, should it ever happen, I'll never be able to experience it the same way, and while it is possible to get around those issues and 'make do'...it's just not the same. I also know that angsting about it is futile, nothing will ever truly change what I was born with and born without...

But it's still really getting to me.

xox Remus

[Guest Lelouch]

I understand how you feel. I've been like this for the past few years, maybe since I was 13 and I'm 19 now. Most of the time I feel as if it is hopeless. The only thing I can do to cope up with it is to focus on other things. I try to do other things which I like and put my attention on it. Just remember, it's not the penis that makes the man. It's your personality. I know it sounds so cliche but when you think about it, there are bio-guys who have penises yet they use it for their self-pleasure regardless of whether they hurt someone in the process (i.e. rape). They may be physically men but are they acting like men? I'd say they are more like animals, acting on pure instinct. Now I'm not saying you will be the same as them if you did have one. If you look at things at a different angle though, you may see the reason as to why you are in this situation now. There maybe something else out in store for you.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I've felt this way almost my entire life! All I can tell you is keep your fingers crossed for better surgeries, maybe one day we will get the bits we were meant to have. I kind of look at transition as a temporary solution to the problem, i keep telling myself one day I'll have all the right parts :shrugs:

[Guest Michele H]

You are all young enough that you most likely will be able to have transplant surgery some day. I really think we are only a few years away from seeing some expermental transplants - though not likely the prostate and believe me you DON'T want that little bit! The techonlogy is there - mostly just need for some surgeons to see the 'potential market' to make it worth while figuring out the technique and to start harvesting gender parts when a donor dies. A functional penius, complete with scrotum ,testicles and vas ducts really shouldn't be any more difficult than a heart/lung transplant. You will be able to father children (abiet with someone elses DNA). A trans guy and I used to joke that we should go intogether and swap parts.

I know that at your young age - waiting 10 to 15 years is like forever but you will still be young enough.

[Guest Nicodeme]

When I first started noticing that I never really felt female, I got envious of the parts biomales had available to them. And, I mean, like, spitefully, hatefully envious. And finding out that surgery could never give me those things had a mixed effect of justifying it, but also decreasing it somewhat.

I understand that it's a lot easier said than done, but you either have to settle for the results of what surgeries are available for you, which to some are subpar...or ignore surgery entirely. The focus of those surgeries is more on aesthetics than function, (with phalloplasty, you can't rise and shine on your own, for example. and you may lose sensation.) and the success depends on how your body responded to testosterone below the belt. If it helps any, though, that growth becomes pretty apparent in a very short amount of time, if what my friend B told me is true. Your mileage may vary, but that seems to be among the first changes that happen during HRT.

I realized that since I can't have a perfect penis or related parts to match what a cisguy would have, it's just not worth wasting my energy pining for. And for me, realizing I had a very...responsive arrangement sealed the deal. I have no interest in surgery because what I have works perfectly (higher risk of UTIs aside...that I could do without... -__-) and feels good enough that I don't want to risk altering it.

That, and I'm clinging to being able to reproduce, but even after that's taken care of I don't have any intentions to remove my primary sex characteristics unless my health/safety requires otherwise.

[Guest My_Genesis]

You are all young enough that you most likely will be able to have transplant surgery some day. I really think we are only a few years away from seeing some expermental transplants - though not likely the prostate and believe me you DON'T want that little bit! The techonlogy is there - mostly just need for some surgeons to see the 'potential market' to make it worth while figuring out the technique and to start harvesting gender parts when a donor dies. A functional penius, complete with scrotum ,testicles and vas ducts really shouldn't be any more difficult than a heart/lung transplant. You will be able to father children (abiet with someone elses DNA). A trans guy and I used to joke that we should go intogether and swap parts.

I know that at your young age - waiting 10 to 15 years is like forever but you will still be young enough.

I may actually have "that little bit" I may ask someone doing the research to use it to grow all the other bits from.

[Guest Lynnx]

The techonlogy is there - mostly just need for some surgeons to see the 'potential market' to make it worth while figuring out the technique and to start harvesting gender parts when a donor dies. A functional penius, complete with scrotum ,testicles and vas ducts really shouldn't be any more difficult than a heart/lung transplant. You will be able to father children (abiet with someone elses DNA).

Oh great, i can father a dead man's children.

[Guest AlexanderG]

Dude,

that is pretty angsty and depressing stuff.

Is why the onlyt hing I myself can think of concerning it is to not think about it at all.

There is a chance to have, after phalloplasty, feeling in the entire penis, and with the proper erectile device youc an sustain an erection, so it's nearly the same or maybe would be the same as a man with an erectile disorder who needs a device like that.

so that's pretty much all the solace I got to offer.

[Sally]

Now I know that as an MTF the surgeries available for me are a good deal more advanced and successful than that for FTMs but we do have a few of the same problems - because no matter how good the procedures may be they are still just approximations and some things just are never possible.

We manage because it is so much better than remaining as we are and remembering that not all natal women can have children - you have to remember that not all natal men are not always capable of erections or fathering children so you hold onto that and just be the best man that you can be you are so much more than your genutalia - we all are.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest hayden_jude]

Remus,

I know I got here a little late & everyone else has really already given the best advice available, but I just wanted to say THANK YOU, because I've felt that way since before I realized I was trans - I just didn't put two & two together, so to speak. (Yeah, I know - I'm a little slow on the uptake.) I just wanted to let you know I feel your pain, very acutely.

[Guest My_Genesis]

Remus,

I know I got here a little late & everyone else has really already given the best advice available, but I just wanted to say THANK YOU, because I've felt that way since before I realized I was trans - I just didn't put two & two together, so to speak. (Yeah, I know - I'm a little slow on the uptake.) I just wanted to let you know I feel your pain, very acutely.

I actually went into denial about being trans b/c I couldn't face the fact I might never have what a bioguy has (even though I continue to tell myself someday I will...) It's easier to just not be trans, so I wanted it to be something else. But it wasn't. So it took me a long time to even admit to myself that I'm trans.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Sixty-one years of denial!

I might hold the record here at Laura's - GRIN

Lizzy

[Remus]

Lol congraulations! I think...

And yeah, in an earlier post on here somewhere I said something along the lines of being happy to not have a penis because no floppily doppilies = neater, but I think that was really just one more of the many examples where you convince yourself of X so that the truth about Y doesn't hurt as much. Whoever said the truth shall set you free (was that Biblical? If so, no offence meant!) was clearly not gender dysphoric.

And it's bizarre, it's the sort of thing *I* would think a lot of cisgendered women would think about and consider, "I wish I had a penis" and so on, but then given that I thought all women were like me and fantasised/dreamt of being a man every night from the age of 10-11, I wonder how many cisladies out there actually *do* think about it...

Remus is puzzled...

[Guest Elizabeth K]

A puzzled Remus is an unhappy Remus!

Donno 'bout ciswomen (missed the opportunity there - must have been in the wrong line)

But I know cismen will sometimes wonder what it is like to be female. Men have said that (7 beers minimum required!) I suspect we all do that - wonder what it is like to be on the other side of the fence.

Lizzy

[Guest lvmyftm]

As a cisgendered female I can tell you that yes I for one have thought about how cool it would be to have a penis. I think it would be amazing to be able to experience having a fully functional penis. I would love to know what sex feels like from the other persons presepctive.

When in the company of all males I often forget that I am female and can act just like "one of the guys". But the difference for me is that while I think it would be cool to have a penis and I think I could of been happy if I had been born male, I dont wish to be a man. I am happy enough with a female body and wouldnt want to be a hairy guy with all the expectations that society has for men. Therefore I am not transgendered but I can understand some of the feelings that you all have.

Kim

[Guest My_Genesis]

As a cisgendered female I can tell you that yes I for one have thought about how cool it would be to have a penis. I think it would be amazing to be able to experience having a fully functional penis. I would love to know what sex feels like from the other persons presepctive.

When in the company of all males I often forget that I am female and can act just like "one of the guys". But the difference for me is that while I think it would be cool to have a penis and I think I could of been happy if I had been born male, I dont wish to be a man. I am happy enough with a female body and wouldnt want to be a hairy guy with all the expectations that society has for men. Therefore I am not transgendered but I can understand some of the feelings that you all have.

Kim

Interesting discussion! It's funny, I've also heard many cisguys say they wonder what it would be like to be a woman for a day, how sex feels and how they'd play with their boobs lol, and etc (us guys have such dirty minds lmao!)... but coming from "that side of the fence", if you are cis-gendered, you cannot actually "be ____ for a day", b/c your mind does not change. That's something we transgender people can understand. Technically, I have never "been a woman." Sure, I know how it feels to have a female body (it is not fun, and I don't like anything sexually related to having a female body - lots of dysphoria there) but I don't actually know what it feels like to be a woman. It's funny, I think of myself as male, so I often wonder myself what it would feel like to "be a woman for a day" -- since I've never really felt like a girl in my life. Does that make sense?

[Guest lvmyftm]

Interesting discussion! It's funny, I've also heard many cisguys say they wonder what it would be like to be a woman for a day, how sex feels and how they'd play with their boobs lol, and etc (us guys have such dirty minds lmao!)... but coming from "that side of the fence", if you are cis-gendered, you cannot actually "be ____ for a day", b/c your mind does not change. That's something we transgender people can understand. Technically, I have never "been a woman." Sure, I know how it feels to have a female body (it is not fun, and I don't like anything sexually related to having a female body - lots of dysphoria there) but I don't actually know what it feels like to be a woman. It's funny, I think of myself as male, so I often wonder myself what it would feel like to "be a woman for a day" -- since I've never really felt like a girl in my life. Does that make sense?

I was meaning strictly the physical aspect of being male for a day, but keeping the same mind. I can understand some of how the male brain works and in some ways mine works the same (lack of paying attention to small details, etc) but for the most part I know that my mind is female and guys dont make a whole lot of sense to me most of the time. lol Would I love to have a better understanding of the male experience, sure.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I was meaning strictly the physical aspect of being male for a day, but keeping the same mind. I can understand some of how the male brain works and in some ways mine works the same (lack of paying attention to small details, etc) but for the most part I know that my mind is female and guys dont make a whole lot of sense to me most of the time. lol Would I love to have a better understanding of the male experience, sure.

Ah. Yeah, that makes sense. I guess we are somewhat privileged in that way? lol if you consider it a privilege to have the body of the opposite sex just to see what it feels like. Though I can't just revert to the body of a man which kinda blows but maybe someday...

I am pretty detail-oriented, btw.

[Guest Leigh]

yeah.. this is one of those things that i just try never to think about....

being celibate can't be that bad, right?

peace&love

[Guest harvester52]

I feel you guys... I've had the same thing going on.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I feel you guys... I've had the same thing going on.

I worry that starting T may make me even more lower-half dysphoric...

[Guest seanjamie]

When you find out that you cant fully have wat a bioguy has -

I guess the best words for the feeling is total agony

And I went through the denial thing too knowing that I couldn't feel completely full and be full -

For a long time I wanted to try and hide from myself how I feel and who I am and have tried but its just impossible for me to do that anymore and keep going/ keep living , the denial of what and who I am I have realised is impossible in the end.

Hopefully technology will get better- but yeah it doesn't stop it from being hard to 'swallow the truth'.

And I hope it does get better

[Guest UnicornGiggles]

Oh dude I know exactly what you mean. I'm terrified of transitioning because I know I'll never be 'perfect' and weirdly that scares me even more than spending my life as a woman. Part of the anxiety is that I'm a gay man, and I can't imagine a gay man wanting to be with me because I wouldn't be a 'true' gay man. Probably silly to think that way and I know plenty of pre-op and post-op transmen in good relationships but I can't help worrying.

But it's not weird at all. I think a lot of people have these kinds of fears.

[Remus]

Oh dude I know exactly what you mean. I'm terrified of transitioning because I know I'll never be 'perfect' and weirdly that scares me even more than spending my life as a woman. Part of the anxiety is that I'm a gay man, and I can't imagine a gay man wanting to be with me because I wouldn't be a 'true' gay man. Probably silly to think that way and I know plenty of pre-op and post-op transmen in good relationships but I can't help worrying.

But it's not weird at all. I think a lot of people have these kinds of fears.

Yep, defo. It's painful to be stuck as a woman, but - with the exception of the brain/body mismatch - you're a whole woman. Transitioning to a man, you'll have the mental/physical congruency, but nevertheless be physically incomplete.

And yeah, my psychiatrist said that the gay community (here, at least) is "very phallus-oriented", and so I'm more likely to find acceptance and love from women than gay men. But then am I any more likely to find love and acceptance from gay men as a full-bodied woman rather than a phallus-less man? Doubt it.

[Rock] ---------- Us ---------- [Hard place]

[Guest sebastiank]

I find I no longer wish to accept my "below decks" dysphoria. Dysphoria is there.... but why? Wasn't it the misogyny that this society is full of what, in part, had installed this dysphoria in me? Making a person feel that having female parts is shameful or bad (all the ads in the media promoting the image of women not being clean enough, selling scented tampons, perfumes, etc, "very *friendly* person shaming" that is so popular in the media and among the general public, ageism and discrimination specifically directed at women, discrimination in my Engineering school, "rape culture" and "hookup culture", etc, etc).

You know what? I'm not going to feel the dysphoria anymore and I'm going to tell myself to cut it.

Cause guess what I was born with what I was born with, it's natural and I (and others) better accept it--doesn't mean I have to use it--but I'm not gonna hate it just cause the hateful, conservative society views everything through a lens of gender binary and shoves misogynist information on me everywhere.

Having these girly parts downstairs doesn't make me weak, or incapable--I've got more testicles than most biomales I run across (from their own testimony)--real testicles are located in the brain and not in the underwear.

I'm starting to feel that I'm acting like a coward by giving in to below decks dysphoria and trying to live after others not after myself by giving into penis envy. Cause what's in my pants doesn't define me.