Why Does There Seem To Be More Mtf's Around Compared To Ftm's?

[Guest unsolvedmystery]

I just seemed to have noticed that the predominant posters here are mtf's, and there is nothing wrong with that! i just wonder why though? are there just truely more mtf's in the world? and if so why? it's just a random thought that has now got me curious.

[Guest Donna Jean]

I just seemed to have noticed that the predominant posters here are mtf's, and there is nothing wrong with that! i just wonder why though? are there just truely more mtf's in the world? and if so why? it's just a random thought that has now got me curious.

Well, 'cause we love to gab..............

Donna Jean..........Blah...blah....blah....blah....blah....blah!

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Hi hon

Yes there are more MTF's than FTMs. There are about 3 or4 times more MTFs than FTMs. I don't know the reason for this, but that is how things are.

We (MTFs) do lov to talk

HUGS

Brenda

[Guest Elizabeth K]

bernii - my therapist says the ratio is more even - now that so many FTM who were self described lesbians, are coming forth. She says it will be more like 5 to 4 or even equal out someday.

More MTFs than FTMs on Laura's? Just an opinion here. (1) androgynous people - female born, are acceptable and may never identify as trans. Wanting to be male is considered an 'upgrade' by society. Wanting to be female is considered a 'deviant' behavour. So many FTM are not easily identified. (2) FTM transition well physically on "T" and just go stealth earlier. MTF in transition go through a 2 year awkward stage and tend to be more visible, have greater problems, need more support like Laura's for a longer period of time. (3) MTF tend to be vocal even post op - FTM just disappear. How many post-op FTM are here on Laura's?

Hummmmm

Or is it women want to complain when they have problems - and men tend not to.

Lizzy

[Guest Girl Emily]

Mystery,

One of the reasons put forth by the professionals has to do with cultural expectations and allowances. Women are able to express their masculinity to a greater degree before running into social control mechanisms ie: ridicule, isolation and discrimination. This increased freedom leads to reduced discomfort in there life. Additionally the results of SRS are also poorer than in M2F resulting in less gain for the price of coming out.

I offten wonder if a butch lesbian that I see or meet could be a F2M transsexual in early transition or is just as she appears. It really gets confusing if her name is gender neutral. I want to use the correct pronouns but asking outright is entering a minefield I'd rather stay out of.

Huggs,

[Guest ~Brenda~]

bernii - my therapist says the ratio is more even - now that so many FTM who were self described lesbians, are coming forth. She says it will be more like 5 to 4 or even equal out someday.

Now that makes sense.

To me, it never seemed plausible that there were more MTFs than FTMs in reality. Although there did not seem to be any reason for it, it seemed like there were more MTFs.

Cool

Brenda

[Guest unsolvedmystery]

thank you every one for those replies, it makes a lot of sense. gosh i really dislike the way society works though, a female wearing mens clothes completely, short hair, no make up and a masculine build would usually get no comments, it seems to nearly go unnoticed. yet if a male even decides to slightly do something feminine he gets funny looks. that is really unfair. any ways just a random rant.

[Guest AshleyRF]

Not here in MS. There are way more F2Ms than M2Fs here.

[Guest angie]

There appear to be more MtF than FtMs because

there are more ladies than men with this condition.(umhm)

Ang

[Guest AshleyRF]

Actually, most studies show that the numbers are pretty equal. There are many reasons why it appears to be more M2Fs than F2Ms. One is that because testosterone is such a powerful hormone, and causes such a drastic physical change for F2Ms, they obviously more often that not, pass 100% thus they just blend and no one even notices them. Another reason was stated above. Many just decided (or do not even know it's possible) not to transition and to just live their life as a very masculine lesbian. It isn't unusual at all for women to dress as men in our society so they can be at least somewhat comfortable with their lives without a "full transition". Many of them even get correctly gendered. A third reason is simply societies views of men and women. We live in a "mans world". People can fully understand why a "woman" would want to become a "man" for many reasons however the opposite is not true. Why would a "man" every want to drop social status to be a woman. Woman are viewed as the weaker and the lesser sex, so why would anyone want to be one if they didn't have to be?

[Guest Kieri]

On a slightly different note, my therapist noted that she sees young FTMs far more often than young MTFs. I am the second youngest MTF she's seen at 26 (if I remember right), but she said there have been several younger FTMs. I wonder if there is some kind of disturbing trend going on where, due to society's biases, MTFs may have to wait longer to come out to get a financial safety cushion before transitioning. It may or may not be the opposite with FTMs, but I would suspect them to have higher pay if they transition earlier. I can say with certainty this is why I waited until 26 instead of starting earlier, say 20-22, when I was actually mentally ready for it.

This line of thought is in the same vein as Ashley's comments, but I think it would be very interesting to look at the age relationship... especially in the coming years as (hopefully) trans becomes more societally accepted.

[Guest lexie]

I once was told that the way it seems this way is because of ADSoS. (which is supposed to stand for the "awsome double standards of society")

i.e. one group can reach satisfaction living in a mid-point while the other must make drastic changes to fit in.

[Guest Liam]

Yes there are more MTF's than FTMs. There are about 3 or4 times more MTFs than FTMs. I don't know the reason for this, but that is how things are.

I believe this statistic was developed by counting the number of FTMs and MTFs who have genital surgery. Which obviously doesn't accurately measure the populations as a whole because, for a variety of reasons, fewer trans men have pursued genital surgery than have trans women. In general, the population sizes of both groups are probably about the same. Here on Laura's I think you'll see a lot of guys in the FTM forum and sometimes in the Teen forum (for the younger guys) and the General forum, but it seems like we branch out less. Some of the forums are not really as applicable or interesting to a lot of us, like the hair removal one or the fashion one, some folks are more comfortable in "guy space," and some of us are just more interested in getting (and giving) information than we are in talking about random stuff. Of course, I'm speaking in broad generalizations - some guys are gabbers, too; just look at the "Beerless Beer and Tobaccoless Tobacco" thread in the FTM forum!

[Guest ChloëC]

All the answers so far are pretty much what I've figured out over the many years.

However, a similar question that goes more to one part of the answer is why are there more mtf cross-dressers here than ftm? Here in the beginning of the second decade of the 21st century, a woman wearing pants is as ho-hum as it has been since the mid-20th century. A man wearing a dress (or being found to be wearing any feminine appearing item at all!) is still considered almost as deviant as it was 50 or 60 years ago. Who needs more reassurance, support, confidence?

My two-cents here - in a male dominated society, those aspiring to be male (or 'more' male) are usually looked upon as being acceptable - or at least understandable if it's a female (except in very specific cases like in Boys Don't Cry), if still looked at by certain males with some contempt (you can never be a 'real' male!). Those males aspiring to be or look feminine are held in much higher contempt and ridicule, to my thinking, because they are turning from the male orientation that permates our society. It's like, if it can happen to that male over there (like an illness) could I 'catch' it? To me, that's a real fear for a large number of males!

I've also suspected that there are many males who outwardly shower contempt upon gender dysphoric people when they themselves may have it, in an attempt to bolster their male standing in the community and direct attention elsewhere. Like that preacher in Colorado who was caught in homosexual acts, and now the other day announced he was 'cured' and anyway, stated he wasn't really a homosexual at all. Denial and turning the focus elsewhere are to me, very common tools of people who could really benefit from a place like Laura's

In a society like this, places like Laura's are a real refuge for males who cover the spectrum of gender dysphoria. What's great about Laura's is that it encourages all to come together and share and discuss and learn, because there's so much more to life than what any particular group is experiencing, and in this sharing place, we're all learning so much.

Hugs

Chloë

[Guest Donna Jean]

Of course, I'm speaking in broad generalizations - some guys are gabbers, too; just look at the "Beerless Beer and Tobaccoless Tobacco" thread in the FTM forum!

LOL....Yeah, just look at that....That's about as random as you can get!

HUGGS!

Donna Jean

[Guest Hoslers_wife]

Well, 'cause we love to gab..............

Donna Jean..........Blah...blah....blah....blah....blah....blah!

SOOOO true! lol! I think the women are just more vocal. I think there are many more f2m's here in Seattle with such a large lesbian population it seems easier to blend in as a butch lesbian before realizing true feelings. f2ms have a go between if you will. They have a lifestyle they can many times fit into and possibly be comfortable with for a bit before transitioning. m2f's on the other hand don't have that middle ground. From what I've seen they don't seem to fall back on the homosexual community as much and it seems more drastic. Am I rambling lol....I think so :-)

[Guest i is Sam :-)]

Regardless of how it actually is, is there any reason why we should expect it to be equal?

Transexualism in all it's various flavours appears to be caused by a whole bunch of different conditions/genetic adnormalities/whatever else. (We just tend to bunch ourselves into a few categories, even tho those groups such as MTF might cover a range of different medical conditions)

Some of these problems affect genetic females and some genetic males. And just like how chicken pox is more common than Pompe disease, surely some of the various causes, are going to be more common than others for instance Androgen Insensitivity is reasonably common whereas Estrogen Insensitivity is almost none-existent.

That being the case, I think it's quite interesting that it is as equal as it is, there's certainly no reason for it to be.

[Milly]

We are just biding our time and waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike. Our menace will be of the makeover kind. *rings hands menacingly*

[Guest Zolrek]

We are just biding our time and waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike. Our menace will be of the makeover kind. *rings hands menacingly*

I think I'm going to like you.

[Guest Medicine Woman]

I think this is about upward social mobility as some others have touched on. If you are a woman, you are a second class citizen according to most male dominated society. So, why wouldn't a woman want to imitate a man? But those of us born with the 'keys to the kingdom, better known as a penis, we are judged insane or perverted if we seem inclined to move downward on what I call THE PYRAMID OF POWER just for rejecting our peepees. seems like if a culture decides that a eunuch is valuable, they proceed to create them. But if it is a personal decision it changes everything. Just the idea that some of us do not worship THE GOLDEN MEMBER is apparently grounds for murder.

Along the same lines, I wonder why there seemed to be an explosion in gender diversity beginning immediately after the second World War. When I was growing up in the 50's. I thought I was the only Freak in town. Now look at us. We're on the verge of CONQUERING THE WORLD. LOL Could it be endocrine disrupters through the advancement in TOXIC WASTE MATERIALS.

It's happening to frogs and other species. What if scientists determined that we were the product of environmental toxins? Would it make us illegitimate? Would it change the way you think about yourself?

Just wondering...

[Guest ChloëC]

Medicine Woman, while I have no doubt that the environment we have messed with way too much is messing with us in ways unknown, I also think that it's really the communication explosion that has fueled visible gender diversity more than anything. In the 50's which I remember well, it took a very brave individual to flaunt convention and dress or act differently. You had to have something else going to get away with it. Myy first invite to a boy-girl party was from a male who in other neighborhoods would have been called a sissy and been beaten probably daily. In our neighborhood, all the girls liked him and I guess that made the boys back off if they wanted to date the girls. Good for him. The rest of us had to be very careful.

What I'm surprised about are the various males that I grew up with that are now out of the closet. I never would have ever guessed during those years. We all kept whatever our feelings were pretty much to ourselves for fear of rejection. And this group included some of the boys that were fairly obvious in acting out macho behavior including being quite contemptuous of boys that exhibited any kind of variation from acceptable male behavior (spitting and scratching!).

There were precious few books available on the subject, and the few entertainment 'role models' were people like Christine Jorgensen or Jim Bailey or Flip Wilson or 'Two dozen girls on stage and only one is a natural born woman, guess which?' type shows. Not exactly ideal role models for all the shades of transgenderism that I'm sure existed then as now.

Hugs

Chloë

[Guest Emily Ray]

One part of the explosion of gender diversity in the post war years is something can be done about incongruous feelings and bodies. I know I wouldn't have said anything if there wasn't a way to help.