Lgbtq... Stupidity

[Guest Bunny]

Today I woke up to a text from my friend who just left after a fun filled weekend here with me. It was about the class she was currently in and someones presentation topic. This boy (who is beyond openly gay, but infact tries to put his sexuality into every conversation he has) was doing a presentation about violence against members of LBGTQ persons. Now, of course most people stick with what they know, being a gay male he was expected to stick mostly to things concerning gay males. He didn't! Which is, of course, kinda awesome because people as a whole tend to be self focusing. He stuck to the LG part and fully ignored the BTQ in his presentation. At the end they discuss presentations. A girl in the class brought up the things done to her friend who is bi. The male giving the presentation had to nerve to say that, in his findings, the things done to people of bi orientation are lesser and hence, less important.

So what's the point of this little rant? Well at my friends school aside from two gay students and one teacher we've noticed a strange trend. Most of the gay males at the school believe that you can either be gay or straight. If you're bi, you're just lying to yourself because it seems less bad. If you're questioning its okay and they wont even talk about, respond to or ever seem to notice anything about any one who is trans.

Now the exact group of people we've seen this from is the guys who insert their sexual orientation into everything they say. "Don't worry I'm gay" "I'm gay I know these things" and ect are said more often then the letter E has been used in this rant. So much so that we've actually started to question if its real or if they're just using their sexual orientation for attention and ect. Sounds so middle school doesn't it? But we do know some people just don't grow up after that so its possible. Its also possible that after many nights of our RA telling us we were wrong for being bi and just needed to fess up to what we really are and stop faking it we're bitter people who kinda want to hit him. More so since he brought the topic up when we talked about a cute girl in our classes and then the very attractive topless males walking about the first floor from their showers. Or just did it to show off, we were perfectly fine with both.

Is this a trend thats been around for a long time and this is just the first we've seen of it?

What the heck is up with this? These are guys who walk around talking about the need for tolerence and ect for the LGBTQ and go to the club meetings but outside of the club care nothing about anything but the LG part.

And whats with the utter ignoring of the trans part? Did I miss something where we are not longer the T in that LGBTQ thing?

Has anyone else seen this or is this just going on in a small little town in no where NY?

I'm so confused by the incresing amount of it at this college. Myself and all my friends are. Its just so strange to me. If I walked around saying Gays were just lying about really being Bi and needed to fess up I'd get hit. So why do they find the oposite to be okay?

-AveryconfusedJaden

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I know you find it disturbing. Male gays sometimes are just as selfish as the general community - 'their way or the highway!'

It's disturbing seeing someone who has the potential to be so beaten down by the general community, turn around and beat on us - or, more likely, to ignore us.

Yes I see it. Yes I see a lot of it! Yes we need to do something about it! The ratio of gay men to trans must be at least 1000 to 1! Here in Louisiana we are trying to schedule guest speaker time with the male gay organizations. It seems a lesser problem with the local Lesbian community, but it can be there to. The GLBT here? Their Political Action Commitee - continuously throws us under the bus in the Louisiana Legislature - saying, "the world isn't ready for transsexual rights. we will come back for you later!' BS of the worst kind! We have given good honest support to the GLB part - why are we ignored.

Education - well - unfortunately - we have to go back to the male gay community and explain to them what we are. They still usually 'don't get it." They are perfectly happy with their bodies as is. We are freaks to them still! DANG

Sad

Lizzy

[Guest GinaBrandt]

Selfish/inconsiderate don't know race, color, or gender. It sounds like this friend is having trouble adapting to their identity, I went through a couple years in high school where I took every opportunity possible to mention that I was bi. You never mentioned your ages, but if he's in high school that would match the path I've taken and seen others take perfectly.

[Guest Bunny]

Oh sorry these are all college students. The presentation was for a psychology class with a range of people from freshmen up. The males are upper classmen though my friend is a freshmen she's a psych major. Our RA was a design major of some kind and I believe the guy giving the presentation is going for theater psych but I could very well be wrong there.

So about 19 and older.

-Jaden

[Guest My_Genesis]

I've heard that thing about being bi being "fake" from people as well. Not from gay males specifically, but more so from straight males (or just the cis population in general.) There seems to be this belief that only women can be bi, men can only be either gay or straight, and if they claim to be bi, they are probably, as you mentioned, confused or are actually gay but in denial about it. They even did a study on only males measuring their arousal to certain stimuli, and supposedly the results said you are either gay or straight. It seems to be a huge debate now, which i think is a bit pointless b/c it's like, who cares. you are what you are. and bi guys face the same sort of being "beaten down", in lizzy's words, as the rest of the community. So why should it be viewed as unimportant?

As for not being inclusive of the "T" in there with the LGB & Q - I have heard about it more than I've witnessed it. But I think it mainly comes down to, there are just more LGB (cis) people than there are of us T people, so by default we are a minority within a minority. It is just harder to pay attention to such a small group of people. Which I guess by human nature and whatnot leads to a tendency for LGB to ignore the T. I don't think most LGB people want to pretend we don't exist, however. though that seems to be an issue with some, but certainly not all (I have a very close friend who's lesbian and that stereotype about lesbian contempt towards ftm's certainly does not hold true for us.)

just my opinion.

[Guest GinaBrandt]

There seems to be this belief that only women can be bi, men can only be either gay or straight, and if they claim to be bi, they are probably, as you mentioned, confused or are actually gay but in denial about it.

It's funny how when you want to be straight, anything even suggesting at homosexuality makes you gay. When you admit that you're bi, people go "yeah, right". Apparently listening to bouncy music signifies your sexual preference, but liking both sets of genitals doesn't.

[Guest My_Genesis]

It's funny how when you want to be straight, anything even suggesting at homosexuality makes you gay. When you admit that you're bi, people go "yeah, right". Apparently listening to bouncy music signifies your sexual preference, but liking both sets of genitals doesn't.

That is funny. The other thing that's funny is that straight guys seem to consider bi just another version of gay for guys, but for girls it's ok and it doesn't make them just another version of lesbian.

[Guest MarciPA]

The one thing that I can say is before I went into therapy, when I was trying to figure myself out on my own, I spent a lot of time talking to the gay and Lesbians where I work. Most of the gays really didn't feel that "kindred" with the trans folks. One in particular actually went "Ewwwww" they make me sick" when I mentioned Trans. Now these folks still work where I do and quite frankly its disturbing that A. They feel that way about us, and B. I actually at one point I could look to them for a little support "if" ift came to me transistioning. Well that IF, is a "currently happening" and I'm still worried, and angered by this. Not much I can do about it, but I just wanted to add my 2 cents that from MY experiance the LGB community really would rather the T just disappear or go away because we "bring the whole group down". Its disturbing, it hurts, but it IS a reality. All we really have is each other as even the folks in the LGB have no understanding of our condition. They just don't GET it, just like everyone else. Sprry for the rant, but it upsets me to the core. Personally if I'm not going to be accepted as a person, I would rather just be left alone, but I fear that just isn't happening for most of our sisters and brothers in the "T" community.

M~

[Guest Donna Jean]

from MY experiance the LGB community really would rather the T just disappear or go away because we "bring the whole group down".

M~

You know, Marci......

It's all a power struggle.

The LGB have made inroads into society, rights, laws, concessions by the government...

Poor little us ...the "T" on the end have hardly anything.

I find myself at work not caring when I'm percieved as gay because it's better accepted to be gay than Trans right now..

That's why we tag ourselves onto the end of LGB....we're not strong enough to stand alone...

But, often when a law looks close to getting passed in favor of LGBT, they will drop us off of the legislation to get that extra "boost" to get the bill passed..

We're thrown under the buss again...

We're a minorities minority......

*sigh*

Donna Jean

[Guest MarciPA]

We're a minorities minority......

*sigh*

Donna Jean

I completely agree there DJ. With your whole post but expecially this statement. I too at work have been, and more becomming viewed as "gay" I used to react to that as if insulted and in shock. I now just let it slide and let them think what they want to think. At the moment I too would rather be perceived as ANYTHING but trans at work. That is the shame though. We have spent most of our lived struggling to come out of the box we have put ourselves in yet we still have to box ourselves when we go into self preservation mode. I have a devent job and if I were to loose it in this economy it would set back transistion quite a bit as financially I couldn't handle it. As much as I want to scream to the world I'm trans, I hide behing the LGB folks at work as a shield block. Its sad but true. I so envy the folks who are out and its working for them. On e day it will be my time.

M~

[Guest Donna Jean]

We'll all make it, Dear girl........

Hang in there, Baby.....

Donna Jean

[Guest My_Genesis]

What I've learned is, if you've surrounded yourself with good people, you will find there is more acceptance, tolerance, and support in this world than you might expect. When I came out on facebook through a note, I was sitting there panicking over what might happen, how many friends I could be losing because of it. My closest friends replied instantly and no one so far (which is pretty much my closest group of friends, whom I trust most with such personal info) has been unaccepting or dumped me as a friend because of it.

Just surround yourself with good people and the rest will follow Then, who cares what the rest of the world thinks. You've got other people to have your back and that's all that matters.

[Guest Bunny]

It's strange to me how many people find just us being dropped off. As I talk to more friends at my old college it seems there its just the L and G that are "okay" and the others can sod off because they're not... Well one or the other. They're "confused" or "fake" or best yet "stupid and greedy"

the intended topic title here was actually LGbtq for that reason but. Apparently there was some fail somewhere on the typing end. I also really didn't think so much on the trans side of things it was just more an observation on the sexuality. Not to say I didn't know we got the short end of the stick! Just that people find the bi end still included. Oi and don't even mention pansexuals! That's a joke, something someone made up, sick, twisted ect. More or less, pan is just NOT okay.

Side note. Just confirmation on the ages. The gay males I was talking about are 22 and 20. So yeah, one might assume they're past the highschool stupidity. Okay bull. My friend and I have been discussing this a little more. The fact that they can call things gay but if you aren't you can't, ect. Its offical. Just confused on all accounts by this... Crap.

-Jaden

[Guest Katrina_Carter]

Read the main topic but only skimmed most replies (sorry ) so don't know if it has been said, but.... Bisexuals are kind of caught on their own. In the LGBTQ the LG stick together as far as politics go, the T latched on because in all honesty I think it was the safest and probably only group that would take us, and the B was slapped on there because it had aspects of the LG. I'm still not sure what all encompasses Q though. As a social dynamic, B are more accepting of T than LG are as well, and from everyone I've talked to relationships as a T are much easier with a B than an LG.

Straights think bi's are confused and actually straight. Gays and lesbians think Bi's are gay and haven't accepted it. Some think Bi women do it for attention and are actually straight as well, but bi males as a whole are encompassed in the you're straight or gay and no such thing as bi argument. It's scary that being bisexual you will see as much discrimination from the lesbian and gay community as you will from the straight community. There are people out there who fervently believe that there truly is no such thing as bisexual, that you are gay or straight and either won't accept that you're gay or you are straight and looking for attention or acceptance from peer pressure.

It just has to be thought of like being transgendered. You can not fully understand it unless you are part of it.

[Guest unsolvedmystery]

Read the main topic but only skimmed most replies (sorry ) so don't know if it has been said, but.... Bisexuals are kind of caught on their own. In the LGBTQ the LG stick together as far as politics go, the T latched on because in all honesty I think it was the safest and probably only group that would take us, and the B was slapped on there because it had aspects of the LG. I'm still not sure what all encompasses Q though. As a social dynamic, B are more accepting of T than LG are as well, and from everyone I've talked to relationships as a T are much easier with a B than an LG.

Straights think bi's are confused and actually straight. Gays and lesbians think Bi's are gay and haven't accepted it. Some think Bi women do it for attention and are actually straight as well, but bi males as a whole are encompassed in the you're straight or gay and no such thing as bi argument. It's scary that being bisexual you will see as much discrimination from the lesbian and gay community as you will from the straight community. There are people out there who fervently believe that there truly is no such thing as bisexual, that you are gay or straight and either won't accept that you're gay or you are straight and looking for attention or acceptance from peer pressure.

It just has to be thought of like being transgendered. You can not fully understand it unless you are part of it.

Thank you Katrina, you've just said everything that i feel about this issue, it is so wrong. Luckily the LGBT group at my uni seem to have the right idea. One of last years copresidents were bi, and genuinely so.and one of this years copresidents are mtf. i think it's absolutely wonderful and i believe in accepting and loving people for exactly who they are. being bi myself i feel really insulted when i hear all those comments that people have mentioned. i hope the WORLD as a whole (not just the lgbt community) one day realises that every one is unique and should be treated with the respect they deserve. of course a gay or straight person cannot imagine liking both sexes, but that doesn't mean that liking both sexes doesn't exist. same for people who are happy with their gender, that doesn't mean a tg is a freak or being ridiculous. when people open up their minds this world will finally be able to move on.

[Guest AlexandraHarper]

Hey everyone,

I think there is 1 major divided between the Transgender and Gay_Lesbian communities. And that major divide has to do with sexuality. And that is that being gay or lesbian is more about your sexual preference, where as being transgendered is about fixing the outer appearance of my body to match the appearance of my soul.

Also another side point I would make is that for the Gay and Lesbian community, we the Transgender community make it hard for them to define what is gay/lesbian. I will use myself as the example. I was born male, but after my transition is complete will be female. So when I become a female if I were to date a male does that then make the male gay since I started of male, or does it make the relationship a straight relationship. I think that the labels society as a whole put on relationships in general is part of the problem as a whole.

Well that is my 2 cents!!

Alexandra Harper

[Guest My_Genesis]

Hey everyone,

I think there is 1 major divided between the Transgender and Gay_Lesbian communities. And that major divide has to do with sexuality. And that is that being gay or lesbian is more about your sexual preference, where as being transgendered is about fixing the outer appearance of my body to match the appearance of my soul.

Also another side point I would make is that for the Gay and Lesbian community, we the Transgender community make it hard for them to define what is gay/lesbian. I will use myself as the example. I was born male, but after my transition is complete will be female. So when I become a female if I were to date a male does that then make the male gay since I started of male, or does it make the relationship a straight relationship. I think that the labels society as a whole put on relationships in general is part of the problem as a whole.

Well that is my 2 cents!!

Alexandra Harper

Well yeah there's an issue of, once we've transitioned, and we are straight (I consider a mtf-male relationship to be a straight one - society as a whole probably does as well) how do we fit in to the GLB part of the group?

[Guest AlexandraHarper]

Well yeah there's an issue of, once we've transitioned, and we are straight (I consider a mtf-male relationship to be a straight one - society as a whole probably does as well) how do we fit in to the GLB part of the group?

Well that is why I think the two communities have a hard time with each other. And transition makes it hard for one to put labels on a relationship in general. And I think that is the real problem. People want to be able to easily label everything, and transition makes it harder for them.

[Guest Bunny]

Well yeah there's an issue of, once we've transitioned, and we are straight (I consider a mtf-male relationship to be a straight one - society as a whole probably does as well) how do we fit in to the GLB part of the group?

What about a female who identifies as Bi but is in a relationship with a male? If both are bio gendered as such then should they be ignored by the group because they're in a "normal" relationship?

I really never expected so many trans issues to come up about something about sexuality, I'm kinda amused by the path this has taken.

But yeah. One could also say that someone who is in the Q (which, side note, google LGBTQ, it will correct you to leave off the Q, apparently questioning doesn't matter) part of the group decides their straight? If they can then become and "ally" should they get as ignored as the bi and trans people? In theroy yes but of course they don't because they're part of the "norm" and approving of the LG parts they're perfectly okay! As far as I've seen it doesn't matter if you're straight and approve of the whole LGBT(Q) what matters is if you approve of the LG. Cause the rest is just on there because LG just doesn't sound as good on it's own ~.^

-Jaden

[Guest My_Genesis]

What about a female who identifies as Bi but is in a relationship with a male? If both are bio gendered as such then should they be ignored by the group because they're in a "normal" relationship?

I really never expected so many trans issues to come up about something about sexuality, I'm kinda amused by the path this has taken.

But yeah. One could also say that someone who is in the Q (which, side note, google LGBTQ, it will correct you to leave off the Q, apparently questioning doesn't matter) part of the group decides their straight? If they can then become and "ally" should they get as ignored as the bi and trans people? In theroy yes but of course they don't because they're part of the "norm" and approving of the LG parts they're perfectly okay! As far as I've seen it doesn't matter if you're straight and approve of the whole LGBT(Q) what matters is if you approve of the LG. Cause the rest is just on there because LG just doesn't sound as good on it's own ~.^

-Jaden

I agree with what AlexandraHarper said, that everyone wants to put a label on things. I would even venture to say that even LGB (and maybe even sometimes T) want to put a label on people's sexual orientation. which can become difficult for us. what if you are pansexual - does that include you in the LGB or T (or Q) part of the group? And what if you are genderqueer?

[Guest Light Perpetual]

So much of what people think and consider is product of general society, and I suspect that a large part of the issue with some views on sexuality (and gender identity) are based on media feedback. It's the "trendy" thing to be or it's the most conflicting matter of the times, so there are people who take it with a grain of salt without even considering the individual, in addition to whatever widespread notions there are.

And My_Genesis, I think that's true for a fair majority of people wanting to keep everything concise and categorized; I think the problem hits when you cross with gender-based categories with sexuality-based categories; individuals aren't as cut and dry as organism classification, which leads to conflict.