Changing Status From Mt? To Androgyne

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

It's late at night and I've spent the last hour thinking. I normally don't like coming to "conclusions" because I change my mind so often (hence the I-Dunno in my name), but I rarely feel this right about something.

Here's a quick rundown of my life so far as I haven't spent any time in this androgynous section on the forum before.

I was a pretty normal little boy gender-wise. I've been "different" when it comes to my world views and preferences and such, but more on the level of quirky than weird. I've dealt with moderate anxiety and depression my whole life, but it never seemed significant enough for my parents to address it.

My first gender... stuff... came into question when I really started using the web to view nude photography and erotica. I really envied women's bodies. First breasts, but over time, the whole package. It was mostly an erotic fantasy, though, but sometimes, the thought of being a woman was just a daydream. I wanted to feminize my body without necessarily becoming a woman, but based on what I was reading, that was out of the question. Only people with an obvious cross-gender identity would be considered for hormones.

I knew my narrative didn't quite fit with transsexuals. I'm not a "woman trapped in a man's body" and have never felt like I'm actually a woman in any way. I just envy their bodies is all, and I find most everything about the male body disgusting.

Really wanting a female body, but only being 16, I told my parents I wanted to be a girl. It's such an awkward and painful topic of discussion, though, and while they got me a therapist pretty quickly, it took a very long time to really understand where they stand. I still don't really know, but in-general, they think I'm being rash and need to wait until I'm older to do anything.

I was with my therapist for over a year and I didn't feel like we were making any progress. Since I didn't fit into the obvious category of transsexual, and he wasn't an expert, he just didn't know what to do with me. I asked him about hormones, and he said if I find an endocrinologist who would treat me, then we'd talk more about it. Instead, I found an LGBT clinic that very intentionally doesn't follow the Standards of Care and got me started on HRT. I did this all behind my parents' backs and when confronted about it, even lied until I was ready to talk. In the midst of all this mess, I ended up with a real gender expert for a therapist.

In-general, my brother is okay with me being trans-anything. While he's extremely worried about the obstacles in life it would mean for me, he realizes it's something people have to do.

But earlier today, we had a long conversation. He absolutely hates the fact that I'm taking advantage of our parents. They've been pretty good about all this. They're paying for my therapy and I'm just lucky they haven't kicked me out of the house. While they're furious about me starting HRT behind their backs, using our family's insurance plan against their will, I haven't been punished for it or even stopped. I'm taking advantage of the fact that they love me so much and are afraid to do anything so drastic as to damage our relationship or, worse, push me towards suicide. And I knew that, sub-consciously. I knew they'd never seriously punish me, and I've been a jerk to them this whole time.

He wants me to try and salvage the situation.

Feeling like a total jerk, now aware of my sub-conscious process, my mind was clear enough for the first time to really do some thinking. It's always been clear to me that I don't want to wear dresses or makeup or frilly anything, and I don't really want to change my boyish personality. I thought I'd just be a boyish girl.

I always kind of thought I "wouldn't mind" being a girl. But now I realize that, while that's true, the transition would be extremely difficult and painful. I'm not willing to do that for a gender identity I "wouldn't mind".

I still want to get rid my body and facial hair. I still want the softer skin the curvier body. I even want breasts, but I want them to be small enough to hide easily. But socially, I'm only comfortable as a boy, and especially since it's tearing my family apart, I don't want to push for a total social transition to female.

I used to feel like I'd just stay a boy until the effects of HRT were so obvious, it'd just be easier to be a girl. But now I've decided that while that still may happen, it's not my goal. I'm not shooting to be a girl. I mean, if I start being "mistaken" for one with little effort on my part, then sure, I'll start living as one. But unless that happens, I really just want to be a boy with a feminine body.

When I look deep inside myself, I'm not any gender at all. It's just not there. While I'll be telling people I'm a boy and letting my family continue considering me one, it's really only to avoid questions and awkwardness. To me, I'll be androgynous, and I think I'll finally be comfortable with myself.

Instead of wanting to transition in-spite of my gray area, now I'm embracing the gray area as who I am. I feel pretty good about it, but a little sick to my stomach, too, because now I have to talk to my parents about it. It will take a long time for them to understand, if ever.

[Sally]

Jo,

Reading your story does explain why you would want to be Androgynous - it might well have been in the back of your mind from the beginning.

Here is the beautiful part of what you described - you want to continue on HRT so this decision doesn't have any real long lasting effects if you find later that you do want to transition completely - just lower your dosages when you develop the body that makes you feel good.

Labels are unimportant - only feeling good about yourself matters.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest sarah f]

Jo it sounds like you had an eye opening talk with your brother. Sometimes it takes someone to really talk to to figure out what you really need to be happy. If you are happy being a male with feminine characteristics than that is great. Like Sally said, if later you decide you want to go further than you will already be on your way and if you reach that point where you like what you see than you can lower your dosages. I am happy for you that you now know what spectrum of trans you truly are.

As far as your parents go, if they are trying to work this out with you than try your best to not take advantage. You really need family on your side because you can always go to them for comfort if you are feeling down.

[Guest Donna Jean]

Jo............

We talk about it all the time, Hon..

The gender spectrum...It's the place that is male on one end and female on the other...

Everyone falls somewhere along the line drawn between the two...

You need not please anyone but yourself...it's your life.

Do only what you're comfortable with...

Huggs

Donna Jean

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

Thanks ladies. I kind of always knew this was a possibility. Even though I wasn't really sure about my gender identity before, I reasoned, well, even if I end up not wanting to be a woman, I know I still at least want to approach one's body. And nearly 3 months of estrogen has gotten me more in-touch with my emotions, which makes all this easier to figure out.

I know labels aren't important. I had to get over that fact a year ago when I realized I didn't fit in any! While I was sure about starting HRT, I still didn't have all the answers for my parents. I've avoided talking about the androgynous possibility because I thought it would just complicate the situation with them more, but now I realize they're more likely to believe me and me not wanting to make a full social transition will be a lot less scary for them.

[Guest Donna Jean]

I know labels aren't important. I had to get over that fact a year ago when I realized I didn't fit in any! While I was sure about starting HRT, I still didn't have all the answers for my parents. I've avoided talking about the androgynous possibility because I thought it would just complicate the situation with them more, but now I realize they're more likely to believe me and me not wanting to make a full social transition will be a lot less scary for them.

And we probablly never will...

Hon...no matter if one is whare you are or MTF/FTM...it's always hard to explain and harder for them to understand...

Good luck telling them and they may breathe a sigh of relief that you're not going "all the way"....

Huggs

Donna Jean

[Guest Micha]

I don't look at gender as a 2D spectrum really. I think Sandra Bem was right, people can be both masculine and feminine at once, or neither. So it's not like there's the male side over here, the female side over there, then everything else is in between. It's more flexible than that, 3 dimensional or something, like a sphere.

[Guest i is Sam :-)]

stay on your current dose of AAs and cut your estrogen down to a quarter of what you're currently on (assuming it's that same as it was when we talked last) it's great that you've gotten some clarity hun, even if it seems like a more complicated / difficult path, at the end of the day we don't get to choose what we are.

[Guest i is Sam :-)]

I realised that my last post sounded a lot like unqualified medical advice, which it wasn't intended to be, (i'm actually surprised it was approved)

I've discussed doses with Jo in the past, what I said was a suggestion for the sake of immediate triage until the proper advice of a doctor can be saught.

[MaryEllen]

Thank you for the clarification, Sam.

MaryEllen

[Guest ~Brenda~]

As I have explained at great length with many family members of mine as to what transgendered means, I tell them, think of gender as an infinite spectrum with male at one end and female at the other. Everything in between is transgendered.

This means that there is no end to the possibilities of expression to who you are.

Finding yourself and how you want to express yourself is the most important thing. We here, at Laura's, work on helping all individuals find themselves and help find their expression. This is very important. Acknowledging that you are transgendered is probably one of the most profound realizations that you will ever make for yourself. From that point of realization, we are here to help you find the peace that you deserve.

To some, therapy is recommended. To some, exploration is recommended. To some, assertion is recommended. To all, confidence in yourself is recommended. Being transgendered is not an easy path. Identifying as transgendered is an enormous realization of yourself.

Being who you are and expressing who you are is the key to true happiness in life.

Be you

All my love

Brenda

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

stay on your current dose of AAs and cut your estrogen down to a quarter of what you're currently on (assuming it's that same as it was when we talked last) it's great that you've gotten some clarity hun, even if it seems like a more complicated / difficult path, at the end of the day we don't get to choose what we are.

The thing is, I still would like to be a woman, but it's a desire, not a goal. It's like wanting money. It'd be nice to be rich, but I'm not dedicating my life to it. I'll work a little bit harder if the opportunity presents itself.

For now, I'm continuing hormones full-force. But I'm not changing my personality and I'm just not worried about being a boy. I think, once my body's changed enough, I'll aim for an androgynous wardrobe and voice. If, at that point, I'm looked at as a female by strangers, or I decide I will be with just a little more effort, then I might make the final push towards female (legal identity, coming out to extended family, etc).

But all this time, on the inside, I'm not either gender. Being seen as a woman by the world sounds nice, but it's just not a reflection of who I am on the inside. I don't need to be a woman. It's just a preference, one that may or may not be fully-achieved.

I hope this all makes sense.

[Guest Micha]

It does, and I'm sure you'll find your confort zone. Sounds like you're clear on what you want.

[Guest Hydraxide]

Jo,

How long have you been on hormones? I've been visiting what passes as a gender therapist in New Zealand, (even LGBT issues here are considered a 'recent' and staggering phenomenon, NZ really is 30 years behind everywhere else), and to be honest, I'm the one teaching HER about this. I want to go for hormonal treatment as I'm feeling the same discomfort as you when it comes to my body shape, hair etc and am looking into HRT. I'm curious about the effects and how long they take and pronounced they are.

I'm not going to start popping HRT without thinking about the consequences, so I'm doing what people have advised me to do and gathering as much info as possible

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

Jo,

How long have you been on hormones? I've been visiting what passes as a gender therapist in New Zealand, (even LGBT issues here are considered a 'recent' and staggering phenomenon, NZ really is 30 years behind everywhere else), and to be honest, I'm the one teaching HER about this. I want to go for hormonal treatment as I'm feeling the same discomfort as you when it comes to my body shape, hair etc and am looking into HRT. I'm curious about the effects and how long they take and pronounced they are.

I'm not going to start popping HRT without thinking about the consequences, so I'm doing what people have advised me to do and gathering as much info as possible

Hey, Hydraxide. I've been on HRT for about 4 months now. At first it was estradiol and spironolactone pills. After two months, doctor said I could double my estradiol dose. But, 1.5 months after doubling my estradiol dosage, my estrogen levels were still nowhere near that of a natal female. Definitely above average for a male, but not enough for me. Some people just don't absorb/process the pills well I guess. So I switched to estradiol injections. I haven't had any tests since starting, but development has definitely picked up.

My testosterone level was still pretty high, but on the low end for a male. But that's supposed to decrease over time, not instantly.

Let me preface all this with the fact that I'm 6 feet tall, like 155 lbs (skinny), 18 years old, and a super-picky eater with very little food intake.

I developed hard lumps under my nipples when I was younger and they never really went away. But within a few days of starting HRT, the lumps started to hurt again. They've gotten really big and really sensitive. If they get touched, it's nothing but pain. Since I started injections, they've gotten even more sensitive. Overall, I think my nipples have gotten bigger. I don't know if it's just the lumps under them, if they've gotten longer or wider or darker or what, but they're more prominent somehow. I still swim topless with my family, but it's starting to get a little embarrassing. If I turn sideways, they definitely pop out more. I think my chest is overall fattier too, but not visibly. I can only tell if I relax one arm and grab with the other. It's not enough for me to be sure it's not just in my head.

I don't think hair has changed much. Beard might grow more slowly, but it's just as dense and thick. Body is just as hairy. Maybe thinner at the roots, I'm not sure.

Nothing else has changed but my sex drive. It's not necessarily lower, just different. I get erections slightly less often and they don't last as long. And I don't need an erection to orgasm. The feeling is less-concentrated in my groin and more a general good feeling all over my body. And, a plus for me, I rarely ejaculate.

Of course, EVERYONE reacts differently to HRT. From what I can tell, most people really fill out a bra by 4 months. Then again, most people on HRT are probably trying harder to look feminine than I. But I like it this way. Over the course of years, I'll eventually be, in-general, more feminine. I'm not in a huge hurry, and if I don't totally get there, I'm okay.

[Guest Hydraxide]

Interesting. I guess everyone reacts differently to HRT.

I'm in New Zealand, which is pretty much the worst place to be if you are the kind of person who frequents these forums. I've experienced nothing but ignorance here and, worse than that, general denial. I'm at a loss as to what to do and my only source of information is the slightly dubious webpages out there on the subject (which often outright contradict each other) and this forum.

Not sure I'll ever get any kind of prescription for HRT while I live here, but I don't intend to stay forever thankfully. However, I've been sitting on my gender dysphoria for a long time and I gotta say my patience is wearing thin. I've been telling myself to wait until 'things are sorted out' for years. Sooner or later, I'm going to have to do something.

Sorry to rant, but its just so frustrating.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

One of the primary missions here at Laura's is to provide accurate information on all aspects of being transgendered.

The link below is a description of what one can expect from HRT.

http://tghealth-critiques.tripod.com/mtf_ha1.htm

Brenda

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

The link below is a description of what one can expect from HRT.

http://tghealth-critiques.tripod.com/mtf_ha1.htm

Oh, that reminds me, I do smell different! I don't smell nasty if I miss a shower (or two ).

[Guest Hydraxide]

Oh, that reminds me, I do smell different! I don't smell nasty if I miss a shower (or two ).

Thats always a plus!

I've read your bog Jo, and I gotta say you sum up my feelings about myself in a disturbingly similar way. While I don't feel like a 'woman in a man's body', I don't like the way my body looks and I simply find the female form more attractive. This doesn't mean that my gender is 'this or that', I feel like both genders have positive aspects and if I can combine the two then I'll have the best of both worlds.

While as a teenager I often imagined myself as a beautiful woman, I'm sage enough to realise that I would probably not be any better off on the female end of the gender scale than on the male. Or maybe I would, how could one ever tell such a thing without doing it? Food for thought.

My goals for finding some harmony with how I envisage myself vs my current body are:

• Facial hair removal.
  
• Facial feminization.
  
• Body hair removal.
  

Maybe more as time goes on. I don't know how I would react to breasts, if I was planning to go the whole way then I'd be for them. But its tough to be able to pass for a woman when I want to without some cleavage and a breast binder can work wonders for the times when I'm expressing masculinity. More things to ponder I guess.