The Irony....

[Guest My_Genesis]

Oh so I must be bi then!!!

Oh wait... I already knew that

Both of mine are pierced obviously!!

Both my ears are pierced... I am going to start wearing earrings again once I can pass better. lol.

I dunno about all of that but ink is hott! I just had to say that! lol

lol I agree!

Trans guys are just sexy, that's all.

I agree, which must be why i have so many tattoos

Trans guys are genetically superior to cis bioguys.

[Guest lvmyftm]

Both my ears are pierced... I am going to start wearing earrings again once I can pass better. lol.

lol I agree!

Trans guys are genetically superior to cis bioguys.

hahahaha This is true...since you guys don't have that broken second chromosome

[Guest insanitylives]

Trans guys are just sexy, that's all.

Those of us who pass with any reasonable consistency, anyway.

[JJ]

As an artist ow I dressed this body ( that never seemed to bre really mine after puberty) and presented it were important to me. So I never wanted a tattoo or piercings because that left permanent marks on the canvas I'd always ave to deal with.

Henna & Tribal tattoos I love but only temps so I can do something different when the mood strikes me.

On FTMs being able to sire children my first response was-no way. Too biologically complicated. Then realized synthesizing sperm from DNA taken elsewhere in the body isn't that far fetched. Or probably that far off. Some of you younger guys will probably actually be able to father children. You can be sure someone is trying to do it right now because many cisgendered men can't produce sperm and there is HUGE money in fertility treatments.

JJ

[Guest Evan_J]

*wrong post i've lost my marbles*

^^rofl Best post of em all.

<<Arriving late to the party and trying to play catch up

Maybe, though transfolk/gay peeps whatever are not wishing for kids, and even would not be able produce them physically because of their trans stuff, its just saying they would (symetrically speaking) be more desirable people?

What I mean is, (and granted, I'm prejudiced cuz I'm a transguy )

I really have never seen an "ugly" transdude. Or one who just "couldn't " get anybody. Some may be more "reserved" or "bashful" and therefore not clocking heavy numbers like others but by and large all I've seen are physically "acceptable" (at least in my imagination ) specimens. And I actually remember (was it an article? or a post on another board?.......) where someone commented that "most trans guys tend to be extraordinarily handsome". -not my words, theirs.

I dunno, as someone who's given in to the ink need (and not once....) I would have liked to see the study ask how much more prevailent is ink amongst folk who feel they look good. Cuz some of the inkin' might be because (amongst other things) the person is already more confident that they are desirable to identified mates and therefore want to "show off" as it were. In that case, yeah, of course theres a corelation between desirability and body modification.

[Guest Lee-Asher Geo-James]

I dunno about all of that but ink is hott! I just had to say that! lol

Tis true!!!!!!!!

Both my ears are pierced... I am going to start wearing earrings again once I can pass better. lol.

Oh I guess both ears pierced doesn't mean you are bi then

[Guest My_Genesis]

As an artist ow I dressed this body ( that never seemed to bre really mine after puberty) and presented it were important to me. So I never wanted a tattoo or piercings because that left permanent marks on the canvas I'd always ave to deal with.

Henna & Tribal tattoos I love but only temps so I can do something different when the mood strikes me.

On FTMs being able to sire children my first response was-no way. Too biologically complicated. Then realized synthesizing sperm from DNA taken elsewhere in the body isn't that far fetched. Or probably that far off. Some of you younger guys will probably actually be able to father children. You can be sure someone is trying to do it right now because many cisgendered men can't produce sperm and there is HUGE money in fertility treatments.

JJ

That would be awesome, I hope they can do that one day!!

What I mean is, (and granted, I'm prejudiced cuz I'm a transguy )

I really have never seen an "ugly" transdude. Or one who just "couldn't " get anybody. Some may be more "reserved" or "bashful" and therefore not clocking heavy numbers like others but by and large all I've seen are physically "acceptable" (at least in my imagination ) specimens. And I actually remember (was it an article? or a post on another board?.......) where someone commented that "most trans guys tend to be extraordinarily handsome". -not my words, theirs.

I dunno, as someone who's given in to the ink need (and not once....) I would have liked to see the study ask how much more prevailent is ink amongst folk who feel they look good. Cuz some of the inkin' might be because (amongst other things) the person is already more confident that they are desirable to identified mates and therefore want to "show off" as it were. In that case, yeah, of course theres a corelation between desirability and body modification.

I've heard that too. One of my straight bio-female friends said "ftms turn out to be really hot."

That's actually a really good point though about the confidence thing. Hadn't thought of that.

Oh I guess both ears pierced doesn't mean you are bi then

Unless I am bi and don't realize it

[Guest Lee-Asher Geo-James]

Unless I am bi and don't realize it

That is possible. *makes no other comments*

[Guest Evan_J]

Unless I am bi and don't realize it

<<Cracks up , only because RJ is subject to be anything and not realize it.

I love you RJ Did I mention I missed you?

Technically though, psychology would assert that ALL people are "bisexual" to some extent; that its that that makes us able to have same sex friendships. HOW bisexual is probably the question who's answer leads to whether that person experiences arousal and attractions.

For example, just what I said; I love RJ- I have affection for him. He's one of my favorite peeps here. But there's no way I want to see any part of him au naturale LOL . No day. His Bio twin either.

Jessica Alba though......

[Guest My_Genesis]

<<Cracks up , only because RJ is subject to be anything and not realize it.

I love you RJ Did I mention I missed you?

Technically though, psychology would assert that ALL people are "bisexual" to some extent; that its that that makes us able to have same sex friendships. HOW bisexual is probably the question who's answer leads to whether that person experiences arousal and attractions.

For example, just what I said; I love RJ- I have affection for him. He's one of my favorite peeps here. But there's no way I want to see any part of him au naturale LOL . No day. His Bio twin either.

Jessica Alba though......

lol I am subject to anything without realizing it?

but what about the stereotypical gay guy who has like 90%+ female friends? Or the stereotypical butch lesbian who has a lot of male friends? It seems same-sex friendships are more likely in heterosexual people. So that thing about having same-sex friendships gets confusing.

And if you love me so much then drop by more often! lol

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Just to geek out for a minute, genetic females are generally less variable than genetic males on a number of traits. Traits like height and intelligence (still hotly debated) both show a larger range in genetic males. What this means is that the amount that genetic females tend to differ from the average is smaller than for genetic males. To place this in the context of a more concrete example, you'd expect to find more very tall and very short males while a lot more females would be close to the average height. Similarly, XX individuals are less likely than XY to die during infancy or to develop certain genetic diseases. It's not all because of having a backup X chromosome either because (supposedly) one copy gets deactivated. However, I'd imagine that the "better" copy is the one that gets used. I'm not a geneticist.

For whatever reason, nature builds XX folk with a little less variability. Thinking along these same lines, XX males get to take advantage to that consistency.

[Guest My_Genesis]

Just to geek out for a minute, genetic females are generally less variable than genetic males on a number of traits. Traits like height and intelligence (still hotly debated) both show a larger range in genetic males. What this means is that the amount that genetic females tend to differ from the average is smaller than for genetic males. To place this in the context of a more concrete example, you'd expect to find more very tall and very short males while a lot more females would be close to the average height. Similarly, XX individuals are less likely than XY to die during infancy or to develop certain genetic diseases. It's not all because of having a backup X chromosome either because (supposedly) one copy gets deactivated. However, I'd imagine that the "better" copy is the one that gets used. I'm not a geneticist.

For whatever reason, nature builds XX folk with a little less variability. Thinking along these same lines, XX males get to take advantage to that consistency.

But it is the Y chromosome that is supposedly shrinking and also does not change over time - it doesn't recombine during meiosis so a male will have inherited an identical copy of his father's Y chromosome and so on. http://www.answers.com/topic/y-chromosome So how can the X chromosome have less variability when the Y does not even change?

Sorry, had to geek it up with ya.

[Guest Evan_J]

lol I am subject to anything without realizing it?

but what about the stereotypical gay guy who has like 90%+ female friends? Or the stereotypical butch lesbian who has a lot of male friends? It seems same-sex friendships are more likely in heterosexual people. So that thing about having same-sex friendships gets confusing.

And if you love me so much then drop by more often! lol

Here's the thing though, with the sterotypes, since they are exactly that (and the product undoubtedly of "less educated minds"), could it be that in fact the "sterotypical gay guy" who is archetypically "swishy" is in fact an unidentified MtF? Or so much more "female in nature" than his more macho acting others that he (or is it she?) IS in fact having a "same sex" friendship with those women? Because 10,000 people would have tagged me as that "stereotypical butch lesbian" but because of who I actually was I was actually finding the sameness with those biological male friends whether they or anyone else even knew it. I LOVE it when I feel like "one of the guys" with natal OR trans men. My "same sex " friendships are important in a very different way than any friendship I have with a female. I'm one of those people who laughs at the joke where the girl being dated says how important it is for her and the guy to have this "friendship" and he tells her if he wanted friends he'd be with one of the guys lol.

And as for my droppin by habits, its not the amount of time that matters its the content (see, you can work it if you make it sound good )

Besides, we're boys (as they say, meaning friends) its not like we have to hug up under each other 6 hours a day to know that lol.

I talk to stranded once ever 7 seasons when the henbane blooms (and he has a spare second and we both happen to be in the same place at the same time) and we know what we are lol.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

But it is the Y chromosome that is supposedly shrinking and also does not change over time - it doesn't recombine during meiosis so a male will have inherited an identical copy of his father's Y chromosome and so on. http://www.answers.com/topic/y-chromosome So how can the X chromosome have less variability when the Y does not even change?

Sorry, had to geek it up with ya.

Yeah, I've heard about the shrinking Y chromosome thing. I really don't know how this stuff works beyond a very basic understanding. As I understand it, info on the Y chromosome gets deleted when a copy error happens. People are wondering if it'll eventually be gone forever and signal the end of the human race. After all, as far as people know, the Y chromosome's main job is to tell the body how to make sperm.

So how can the X chromosome have less variability when the Y does not even change?

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're saying. The Y chromosome, because it has less information, might have less room for variability. However, I'm talking about what's happening at a higher level of analysis. When everything is all said and done and assembled, XX individuals are more consistent/less variable. You see less extremes, on a whole host of traits. Evolutionary biologists have written some stuff about this. I think this snippet from an article by Steven Pinker explains it decently:

Since most sex differences are small and many favor women, they don't necessarily give an advantage to men in school or on the job. But Summers invoked yet another difference that may be more consequential. In many traits, men show greater variance than women, and are disproportionately found at both the low and high ends of the distribution. Boys are more likely to be learning disabled or retarded but also more likely to reach the top percentiles in assessments of mathematical ability, even though boys and girls are similar in the bulk of the bell curve. The pattern is readily explained by evolutionary biology. Since a male can have more offspring than a female--but also has a greater chance of being childless (the victims of other males who impregnate the available females)--natural selection favors a slightly more conservative and reliable baby-building process for females and a slightly more ambitious and error-prone process for males. That is because the advantage of an exceptional daughter (who still can have only as many children as a female can bear and nurse in a lifetime) would be canceled out by her unexceptional sisters, whereas an exceptional son who might sire several dozen grandchildren can more than make up for his dull childless brothers. One doesn't have to accept the evolutionary explanation to appreciate how greater male variability could explain, in part, why more men end up with extreme levels of achievement. Source: http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2005_02_14_newrepublic.html

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I talk to stranded once ever 7 seasons when the henbane blooms (and he has a spare second and we both happen to be in the same place at the same time) and we know what we are lol.

Indeed!

[Guest My_Genesis]

Here's the thing though, with the sterotypes, since they are exactly that (and the product undoubtedly of "less educated minds"), could it be that in fact the "sterotypical gay guy" who is archetypically "swishy" is in fact an unidentified MtF? Or so much more "female in nature" than his more macho acting others that he (or is it she?) IS in fact having a "same sex" friendship with those women? Because 10,000 people would have tagged me as that "stereotypical butch lesbian" but because of who I actually was I was actually finding the sameness with those biological male friends whether they or anyone else even knew it. I LOVE it when I feel like "one of the guys" with natal OR trans men. My "same sex " friendships are important in a very different way than any friendship I have with a female. I'm one of those people who laughs at the joke where the girl being dated says how important it is for her and the guy to have this "friendship" and he tells her if he wanted friends he'd be with one of the guys lol.

And as for my droppin by habits, its not the amount of time that matters its the content (see, you can work it if you make it sound good )

Besides, we're boys (as they say, meaning friends) its not like we have to hug up under each other 6 hours a day to know that lol.

I talk to stranded once ever 7 seasons when the henbane blooms (and he has a spare second and we both happen to be in the same place at the same time) and we know what we are lol.

lol. your content is fine And hugs are not on my priority list so yeah that's true. Keep in touch? HA. Load of bullocks that is!

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're saying. The Y chromosome, because it has less information, might have less room for variability. However, I'm talking about what's happening at a higher level of analysis. When everything is all said and done and assembled, XX individuals are more consistent/less variable. You see less extremes, on a whole host of traits. Evolutionary biologists have written some stuff about this. I think this snippet from an article by Steven Pinker explains it decently:

Very interesting, this stuff. And this is why I should be majoring in developmental biology/genetics... just hope I'm smart enough The thing about the male process being more "error-prone" - reminds me of fish eggs. There's gotta be a lot of em because so many get eaten, or die before term, and it's pretty much the "fittest" that survive. Gotta kinda spread yourself a little thinner to pick out the good results, that's what I'm getting from that Pinker article.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Very interesting, this stuff. And this is why I should be majoring in developmental biology/genetics... just hope I'm smart enough

Most science stuff is more about being willing to put in the time than about being smart. Scientists tend to have above average IQ's, but they are far from being geniuses. My friend's graduate advisor studies expert performance. He got the opportunity to look at (and I looked too!) at the original IQ tests of Nobel Laureates. These were xerox copies of the actual tests they wrote on. Know what? Smart dudes, but not necessarily brilliant with respect to whatever it is IQ tests measure. The main thing about those people was that they worked all the time. Be disciplined and you can do whatever you want.

The thing about the male process being more "error-prone" - reminds me of fish eggs. There's gotta be a lot of em because so many get eaten, or die before term, and it's pretty much the "fittest" that survive. Gotta kinda spread yourself a little thinner to pick out the good results, that's what I'm getting from that Pinker article.

Yeah, that's basically what its saying. Pinker is summarizing a whole bunch of stuff from the evolutionary biology literature. I don't know if you looked at the source article, but the whole thing came in the wake of the Larry Summers debacle. People get really upset over sex differences. I'm mostly only familiar with the human intelligence stuff. People are still bickering over whether male intelligence actually is more variable and whether that accounts for the smaller number of women in high level science jobs. **Can you tell I'm interested in this topic?**

[Guest My_Genesis]

Most science stuff is more about being willing to put in the time than about being smart. Scientists tend to have above average IQ's, but they are far from being geniuses. My friend's graduate advisor studies expert performance. He got the opportunity to look at (and I looked too!) at the original IQ tests of Nobel Laureates. These were xerox copies of the actual tests they wrote on. Know what? Smart dudes, but not necessarily brilliant with respect to whatever it is IQ tests measure. The main thing about those people was that they worked all the time. Be disciplined and you can do whatever you want.

Thanks, I hope you are right! My work ethic is decent. I am transferring to a school that is very science-y and I've heard it's tough on science majors. So I'm a little worried, lol.

Yeah, that's basically what its saying. Pinker is summarizing a whole bunch of stuff from the evolutionary biology literature. I don't know if you looked at the source article, but the whole thing came in the wake of the Larry Summers debacle. People get really upset over sex differences. I'm mostly only familiar with the human intelligence stuff. People are still bickering over whether male intelligence actually is more variable and whether that accounts for the smaller number of women in high level science jobs. **Can you tell I'm interested in this topic?**

yes, as am I!

[Guest Batsu Maru Otoko Yo!]

Back to the previous conversation!

I agree, which must be why i have so many tattoos

Me too! I'm at six and counting...I get one every year for my birthday.

hahahaha This is true...since you guys don't have that broken second chromosome

The only thing to appreciate about having been born female? That and the utter convenience of bra storage, although that might only work because of my massive chesticles.

Those of us who pass with any reasonable consistency, anyway.

Not true! Well, partially true. The ones who don't quite pass are pretty adorable, but I feel bad because I know how they feel. The guys who pass well are still pretty sexy...somehow, there is something about trans guys that cisguys just don't have, hence cisguys being the only variety of people that I'm not attracted to.