I Could Use A Bit Of Advice

[Guest Exeter]

I'm unfortunately still stuck in a bad way; even though I've told my dad, nothing has progressed. I suppose you could say I haven't 'come out', but then again, I sort of have... though that's all off topic. Anyway, to get to the point, I have to remain discrete and don't have enough independence to do most things on my own.

So, is it at all possible for me to pursue some manner of 'passing' at this stage? I mean, are there subtle things that I can do that will make me feel happier, but not interfere enough to disturb others? I know it probably doesn't make sense, because you'd think family would notice, but I doubt they'd say anything to me unless I make a big deal of it... They'd probably try to politely ignore anything that doesn't seem to be 'my fault'. (Like flat chest or boyish voice.)

I've already attempted binding with a make-shift shirt, but it doesn't work all that well... I mean it makes things flat (though I'm already small...) but it moves and isn't the best thing.

I've got my hair cut, but not how I wanted and basically the best thing I can do is comb it back away from my ears.

I've read things that say to shave peach fuzz and that sort of thing, so I suppose I can do that, but regarding my voice, is there anything I can work on by myself without being on T? My voice is already fairly low, I think, but it's still got a quality that would obviously give me away. I'm just curious if there's anything I can do to achieve a more male sound... even if that's only a pre-pubescent one. For me it would still be a start.

I'm not sure I've got overly feminine mannerisms, being that I've always been a tomboy, but I'm still paranoid that biology may have predisposed me to these things anyway.

The worst thing that's beginning to worry me is that in attempting to 'improve' my image (make myself happier about it.) I might be going in the 'wrong' direction... My hair didn't turn out right... It's certainly not a 'boy cut' (though I can blend it in, I suppose...) and second, I got some new clothes recently, which are more 'form fitting'. The issue with this is that they are 'girl's clothes' and perhaps accentuate my figure more... The only reason why I'd even wear them was because I like skinny jeans.(for guys) Of course since family picked them out for me, they were girls', but I still wore them because I don't care a whole lot. I just want to be an andro-feminine boy. Not really an overly masculine man. Which is why my desired fashion may clash more with the whole thing. I'd even like to wear make-up...

The ironic thing is that if I adopt a more feminine style, it may actually make my family think I'm 'embracing' feminity rather than trying to pass as a feminine male. (Though at this point I couldn't care less, as long as I've the possibility of atleast 'confusing' strangers.)

Well, if you've got any tips to give, I'd be grateful.

Thanks.

[Guest ReginaRenea]

I'm unfortunately still stuck in a bad way; even though I've told my dad, nothing has progressed. I suppose you could say I haven't 'come out', but then again, I sort of have... though that's all off topic. Anyway, to get to the point, I have to remain discrete and don't have enough independence to do most things on my own.

So, is it at all possible for me to pursue some manner of 'passing' at this stage? I mean, are there subtle things that I can do that will make me feel happier, but not interfere enough to disturb others? I know it probably doesn't make sense, because you'd think family would notice, but I doubt they'd say anything to me unless I make a big deal of it... They'd probably try to politely ignore anything that doesn't seem to be 'my fault'. (Like flat chest or boyish voice.)

I've already attempted binding with a make-shift shirt, but it doesn't work all that well... I mean it makes things flat (though I'm already small...) but it moves and isn't the best thing.

I've got my hair cut, but not how I wanted and basically the best thing I can do is comb it back away from my ears.

I've read things that say to shave peach fuzz and that sort of thing, so I suppose I can do that, but regarding my voice, is there anything I can work on by myself without being on T? My voice is already fairly low, I think, but it's still got a quality that would obviously give me away. I'm just curious if there's anything I can do to achieve a more male sound... even if that's only a pre-pubescent one. For me it would still be a start.

I'm not sure I've got overly feminine mannerisms, being that I've always been a tomboy, but I'm still paranoid that biology may have predisposed me to these things anyway.

The worst thing that's beginning to worry me is that in attempting to 'improve' my image (make myself happier about it.) I might be going in the 'wrong' direction... My hair didn't turn out right... It's certainly not a 'boy cut' (though I can blend it in, I suppose...) and second, I got some new clothes recently, which are more 'form fitting'. The issue with this is that they are 'girl's clothes' and perhaps accentuate my figure more... The only reason why I'd even wear them was because I like skinny jeans.(for guys) Of course since family picked them out for me, they were girls', but I still wore them because I don't care a whole lot. I just want to be an andro-feminine boy. Not really an overly masculine man. Which is why my desired fashion may clash more with the whole thing. I'd even like to wear make-up...

The ironic thing is that if I adopt a more feminine style, it may actually make my family think I'm 'embracing' feminity rather than trying to pass as a feminine male. (Though at this point I couldn't care less, as long as I've the possibility of atleast 'confusing' strangers.)

Well, if you've got any tips to give, I'd be grateful.

Thanks.

Hi Exeter; Ok let's see- Do you have or can you get a long ace bandage? Take that and wrap it around your chest as tight as you can stand it- that will hide your top. as for clothes-baggy shirts will help there. Are you into goth or punk rock? you could adjust your clothes- what you wear- to look more boyish. If you can hide your chest good enough try tucking your shirts in and wear a belt[ boys belt] they are wider than girls and heavier. Try sneakers or mountain shoes for your feet. Loose fitting jeans will help too.

As for voice trainning- try singing with male songs- start out with slow songs and work your way to faster. Most boys or men cut thier words short and don't enunciate thier words. Try not to talk with your hands too much- not too many men use thier hands to talk. As for hair- maybe a short hair cut but not too short and start parting it. Try not to carry a purse- fanny packs are fine everyone uses them. That's all I can think of for now, I'll see what else I can come up with for you.

Lots of HUGS Regina Renea

[Guest Exeter]

Aren't ace bandages supposed to be a 'no-no'? Atleast, that's what I've read... Is there anything else fairly easy to obtain that would be safe to use?

I've got some baggy shirts. And yes, I'm actually very into the idea of goth/punk. At the moment I've only got one outfit of that sort, but I'd like to get more and dye my hair a different colour. And yeah, I wear sneakers all of the time since I can't stand high heels or sandals. I've got some loose fitting jeans and one pair are definitely boys' jeans.

I listen to mostly male artists anyway so I'd love to practise that way, but unfortunately I sort of share my room with a girl and she's in here most of the time. I probably could go outside and do it when I'm alone, but I'm shy and have never actually sung even though I'd want to. I'm a bit worried about how I'd sound. It's probably a bad idea to jump right in and try to 'mimic' a very deep guy, right? It's best to start higher?

I don't talk with my hands, so that shouldn't be a problem. :)And I've 'never' used a purse; in fact that really made my mother angry.

Thanks, I appreciate everything.

Oh, and do you think having the side region of my hair longer (the area around the ears) is something I should change? I ask because that's the one part of my hair style that I definitely don't like, but probably can't do much about at this point... of course I suppose I can try.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

MTF here -sorry - but I see this on our MTF side too. "What can you do to be more affirming of your true self?"

This sounds stupid - but you need to find one simple thing that is so male and unfeminine it will give you that tiny hidden affirmation you crave.

I tell our MTF to start wearing an ankle bracelet. Guys don't EVER do that.

So for you? What is it guys do that girls would never think about?

Help me out here guys?

MAYBE

Carry a pocketknife - small one - not a threat to anyone - something to open packages and sharpen pencils - a good expensive brand like Gerber or Case - research it out, one your male friends will admire - find the one that suits your taste as a dude, custom carved staghorn handle insets maybe. Carry it in your jeans pocket as a guy thing. Use it to clean your fingernails and to slice open envelopes, peel an apple and eat it. A totally male symbol. Just don't try to go through airport security!

There are other things probably - but that is an idea.

Lizzy

[Carolyn Marie]

Like Lizzy, I'm MTF too, but I've got a teenage son so I may have a couple of ideas.

One is a heavy wallet chain to attach to your pants. Guys seem to think those are cool. If you like doing makeup still, try a little of the goth look if you are into that.

Lastly, as far as mannerisms, the fist bump, palm slap and similar gestures still seem to be popular. I don't know if any of this helps, but good luck anyway.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Exeter]

Thank you, ladies. I'll try to keep these things in mind.

About the pocket knife suggestion, it's a good idea. :)I understand what you mean about it. I used to have one years ago; it originally belonged to my dad, but my brother lost it.

And actually, I've never done any make-up before , but I'd like eyeliner or something and maybe black nailpolish. (For the goth thing )

Ironically, I've spent so little time out around kids my own age that I don't think I've really picked up a lot of 'bad habits'. Maybe that's a good thing?

[Guest Evan_J]

.....One is a heavy wallet chain to attach to your pants. Guys seem to think those are cool......

I had one of those And yeah, they are cool. They do give you some of what you're lookin for Exeter, actually a mans wallet period will do that. And make sure you wear it "correctly" lol please. -Rear pocket, bills where they go; don't "girl it up" by putting things in it oddly or extraneous coupons or something and it will really help with how you are feeling about yourself.

(Racks brain....)Also, go to a flea market or thrift store or such and buy a tie tack. Crazy item I know. You might never use it in your entire life. But a guy, even a feminine, goth guy if he were natal might easily have been given one as a gift from parents/ grandparents/ family hand me down, whatever. OWNING it and knowing that it is meant "for you" can have an effect on your feelings. PLENTY of young guys own some object that "dad thinks I'm gonna wear that" or mom , and they "scowl" at it, but it is theirs because they are male.

[Guest Exeter]

Thanks, Evan.

I'll try to do that.

[Guest Jean Davis]

Hi honey

I was just thinking that perhaps a man's watch would make you feel better, something big and stylish but make it something that you like. Or you could try some hobbies or interests that you haven't done before in the past, maybe if there is an old lawn mower or something that doesn't work around your house you could ask to try to fix it. Tearing apart things and fixing them is something that is very rewarding, a feel good project.

Also perhaps you could try seperating your clothing and keep only the items you like to wear in your closet then hide the rest so it won't be a constant reminder.

The big thing is to do the things that will make you happy, after all that's what it's all about. Your happiness.

LUV

Jean

[Guest Exeter]

Yeah, that makes sense. Actually, certain hobbies do make me feel a bit better about myself. I think I've been taking a little more an interest in cars and motorbikes lately and that kind of helps.

I'm finally going to get my hair dyed today, by the way. I hope that turns out well.

[Guest Roux]

Hey there =)

I'm like you--trying to pass as a feminine guy. I don't do it perfectly by any means (I get, say, one "Sir--uh, Ma'am" per week, which is not exactly stellar), but I have suggestions!

Aren't ace bandages supposed to be a 'no-no'? Atleast, that's what I've read... Is there anything else fairly easy to obtain that would be safe to use?

Definitely skip the Ace bandages. Not as safe, and they can make these weird . . . ripples, and pouches. Or maybe I just could never use them correctly.

I swear by my chestbinder. Check out this website and see if anything strikes you. I have the fourth one down on the page: the "chest only compression" one. It looks just like a regular undershirt, it doesn't smash your stomach and hips into mush, and its bottom hem doesn't start to roll up your ribcage. (For those reasons, I don't like the stomach-compression binders or the cut-off-at-the-midriff binders.) They're also lightweight enough that you won't melt in the heat.

Also, I've heard that vests can help hide your chest, too, even without a binder. Never tried it, myself, but only because I'm short-waisted and guy vests swallow me whole. I need to get my hands on a tailor. Pair that with a tight sports bra and a shirt, and you might just be good to go.

I listen to mostly male artists anyway so I'd love to practise that way, but unfortunately I sort of share my room with a girl and she's in here most of the time. I probably could go outside and do it when I'm alone, but I'm shy and have never actually sung even though I'd want to.

Do you have your own car? If you do, that's an amazing place to practice your voice. Some other people on the road might look at you a little funny, but singing in the car is common enough--and they can't hear what you sound like. Score. And if you're just talking, not obviously singing, people might think you're on a hands-free phone.

It's probably a bad idea to jump right in and try to 'mimic' a very deep guy, right? It's best to start higher?

Yeah, working your way down the scale is a good idea. It takes a little bit of time for your vocal folds to adjust to being used in a new way. Kind of like working your way up to running a 5k; you can maybe force yourself to do it without any real practice first, but if you want to do it naturally and easily, best to work your way up to it. (Or down to it, whatever.)

My best friend's currently working on a doctorate in opera performance, and she gets very upset when she hears about a voice teacher pushing students to stretch their voices too much, too fast. It can apparently ruin a vocalist. I assume you're not planning to sing on Broadway or anything, but still. Be kind to the vocal folds. =)

Something I have to remind myself is that no one would think that a feminine guy with a moderate to somewhat high voice is unusual. True, there are feminine guys out there with deep voices, but mid- or high-range is definitely acceptable and passable.

Oh, and do you think having the side region of my hair longer (the area around the ears) is something I should change? I ask because that's the one part of my hair style that I definitely don't like, but probably can't do much about at this point... of course I suppose I can try.

Go for it! It's never too late to cut stuff shorter--and it'll grow back, if you don't like it. Why keep a bit of hairstyle that doesn't make you happy, anyway?

They do give you some of what you're lookin for Exeter, actually a mans wallet period will do that. And make sure you wear it "correctly" lol please. -Rear pocket, bills where they go; don't "girl it up" by putting things in it oddly or extraneous coupons or something and it will really help with how you are feeling about yourself.

Second that. As well as the pocket knife thing. Watch and tie tack, also a thumbs-up.

Another thing to think about--if you haven't already--is the way you walk. Guys tend to move their shoulders more, and girls their hips. I'm still trying to get a decent andro-guy walk down. Sometimes I'll mimic the guy walking in front of me. Good practice, though it can feel a little, uh, weird/silly. If the people around you aren't giving you funny looks, you're doing a good job. =)

[Guest Exeter]

Hey, sorry for taking so long to reply, but I've been rather busy lately.

I'm really hoping I can get a binder soon. Actually, my dad might be ok with it. Hopefully he won't freak out when he reads 'FtM' or finds out that they're mostly used by Trans people... I sort of let it out in a way that makes him think it's more for cosplay (anime) and stuff like that.

Ironically, my dad is alright with me saying I want to cross-dress and if I can manage to start 'passing', I think I'd feel A LOT better about everything. It would certainly be a start, atleast.

As for the binder thing, though... I think I'd rather use one that looks more like a t-shirt... how well do those work? I'm just not fond of straps or things that might appear to be straps. I don't even wear bras that have top straps anymore. I found it much too embarrassing and spent a lot of time fidgeting with them in order to keep them hidden. -particularly with loose tops.

And sadly, no car. I haven't even got a licence at this point. Which really, really makes me feel bad. It's a long story, I tried to get one, but was given a very hard time. Still hoping sometime I can get the necessary documents and try again, though.

I suppose if I really got motivated enough I could go outside (there's plenty of open land around here) and I don't think anyone would hear me... I'm just so shy.

Yeah, it's probably a no-no trying to imitate David Gahan at this point, I assume. Naughty me.

And it's not like I intend to sing opera or anything, but I am very interested in music and wouldn't really want to ruin my voice. If I've got one. Ugh... on that note... hope I wouldn't sound like my brother if I got on T. He's got a rather annoying voice.

Anyway, thanks for your advice. I'll try to work on whatever I'm able to.

[Guest Roux]

I'm really hoping I can get a binder soon. Actually, my dad might be ok with it. Hopefully he won't freak out when he reads 'FtM' or finds out that they're mostly used by Trans people... I sort of let it out in a way that makes him think it's more for cosplay (anime) and stuff like that.

Ironically, my dad is alright with me saying I want to cross-dress and if I can manage to start 'passing', I think I'd feel A LOT better about everything. It would certainly be a start, atleast.

\o/

Hope your dad shrugs off the FTM thing and is cool with the binder. And if he's cool with cosplaying and crossdressing, he gets a thumbs up from me.

As for the binder thing, though... I think I'd rather use one that looks more like a t-shirt... how well do those work? I'm just not fond of straps or things that might appear to be straps. I don't even wear bras that have top straps anymore. I found it much too embarrassing and spent a lot of time fidgeting with them in order to keep them hidden. -particularly with loose tops.

I'm probably wasting space here, but in case you haven't seen them: "Binder Experiences and Reviews" and "Underworks Binders" are both awesome threads. And honestly, I've never seen a binder that had slender bra-like straps. There are some that look kind of like sports bras, but those are easily avoided. I prefer mine to look like undershirts (of the wifebeater variety), personally.

And sadly, no car. I haven't even got a licence at this point. Which really, really makes me feel bad. It's a long story, I tried to get one, but was given a very hard time. Still hoping sometime I can get the necessary documents and try again, though.

Better luck next time. One of my friends doesn't have a license; never wanted one. She's 26. She's also one of the coolest people I know. =D

[Guest Pól]

A tie tack? Really? Being practical here, you're spending your money. There is no point in buying something you're never going to use, knowing that you're never going to use it, just so you can "scowl" at it. Buy a tie, if you have to. Or a proper belt. Something. You probably don't have much money, so don't waste it. A wallet is decent idea. I dunno about the pocket knife. A wallet is probably more useful, and if it were me, I'd probably lose the knife after awhile.

Start buying some men's clothes, and wear those. You can still be a feminine man, but wearing men's clothes will help you start passing better. Long sleeve buttoned shirts left open over a t shirt can help hide your moobs. Thrift stores are cheap. Try the clothes on before you buy them (if you can) to make sure they don't accentuate thing you don't want attention on.

Once you get your binder worked out, you could take some scissors and mess your haircut up a bit, then go into a barber and ask him to fix it. Pretending you're younger than you are might be helpful if you can then pass for a 12 year old boy, or something. You can use looking like you're twelve to your advantage.

I found the T-shirt style binder basically useless, but everyone is different.

Re: your voice. People can tell if you're talking lower than natural. If your voice is fairly low already, don't push it. If you act like it's normal, most people won't pay too much attention. You can look for some vocal training exercises on youtube if you want to, though.

Mannerisms: watch the telly. Take notes if you like. Try not to overthink it.

No Ace Bandages. Don't go there. If you're really small, an underarmour style compression shirt might be enough for you.