Khaaaaannnn!

[Guest Zolrek]

Ummm...I hate to say it, but one Captain James Tiberius Kirk (as portrayed by William Shatner) is the first and greatest captain. At least he wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty.

luv

Gin

Yeah, a lot of people wouldn't agree with Picard being the greatest captain. To me he was my favorite, and like earlier stated he is closely followed by Sisko, but Picard was also very preachy and very anti-religious. Sisko's writers put a lot more time into developing his character then Picard's writers. This is largely due to the graphic abilities that DS9's time had and New Gen didn't. There was so much more that DS9 could do that the older Trek couldn't, which meant more events that could shape Sisko's life and personality. DS9 was also more aggressively devoted to their characters then flying around learning about new species.

Kirk really didn't have all the devices to make his character as great as the newer ones. I think the people who see Kirk as a great captain only do so because they are older Trekkies and grew up with him. The younger Trekkies(who idolize him) do so because he was the original captain - I doubt because of comparing his personality or his character as a whole to the other captains. I especially apply these thoughts to the female fans of Kirk because even if the older Trek showed women in important jobs they where still in lower ranks then all the male's - only because of the time it was filmed it was the norm and accepted. Kirk's womanizing was over exaggerated but nevertheless you can't ignore the original Trek's placement of ranks - it's very out-dated and out of place now.

To be fair, its hard to compare the old Trek's to the new Trek's. You have to take everything into consideration before dubbing a captain the best from all the shows. It's a complex subject to actually say one captain is better then the other.

[Guest MemoryAlpha]

Yeah, a lot of people wouldn't agree with Picard being the greatest captain. To me he was my favorite, and like earlier stated he is closely followed by Sisko, but Picard was also very preachy and very anti-religious. Sisko's writers put a lot more time into developing his character then Picard's writers. This is largely due to the graphic abilities that DS9's time had and New Gen didn't. There was so much more that DS9 could do that the older Trek couldn't, which meant more events that could shape Sisko's life and personality. DS9 was also more aggressively devoted to their characters then flying around learning about new species.

I think it helped that DS9 pretty much stayed in one place (except the one time it almost got pulled into the wormhole, or something like that) To me, DS9 was the first Star Trek show to really focus on character development, but that is not to say that TOS and TNG didn't develop characters. Bones and Spock built a long lasting friendship, although neither of them would ever admit it. Also, Kirk and Spock's friendship is legendary.

Whenever anyone in Starfleet speaks about Captain Kirk, they make him sound like a God. I just . . . do not totally understand that. I like Picard more because he is devoted to his crew, but a bit more logical than Kirk. In terms of crew welfare, Sisko most likely wins this battle.

[Guest Zolrek]

Whenever anyone in Starfleet speaks about Captain Kirk, they make him sound like a God. I just . . . do not totally understand that. I like Picard more because he is devoted to his crew, but a bit more logical than Kirk. In terms of crew welfare, Sisko most likely wins this battle.

I think if he wasn't from TOS(The Original Series) that birthed all the other Trek's they wouldn't logically respect him the way they do. The writers likely just play off the euphoria of the fans and nothing more.

[Guest NatashaJade]

I think if he wasn't from TOS(The Original Series) that birthed all the other Trek's they wouldn't logically respect him the way they do. The writers likely just play off the euphoria of the fans and nothing more.

He did a lot of great things, that Kirk. He saved the whales, you know. He also beat Khan...twice! He may be a relic of sorts and something of a loose cannon, but when push comes to shove, wouldn't you want JTK on your side?

luv

Gin

[Guest Zolrek]

He did a lot of great things, that Kirk. He saved the whales, you know. He also beat Khan...twice! He may be a relic of sorts and something of a loose cannon, but when push comes to shove, wouldn't you want JTK on your side?

luv

Gin

My dear, you need to watch Sisko! He is a bit of a loose cannon as well. However, like the admiral put it - "Next time you break the rules, I'll either demote you or promote you! So be careful."

Kirk was very much a hero of his time but now a days not so much...that's why it's hard to understand why they would play him as a god on the show itself.

[Guest NatashaJade]

My dear, you need to watch Sisko! He is a bit of a loose cannon as well. However, like the admiral put it - "Next time you break the rules, I'll either demote you or promote you! So be careful."

Kirk was very much a hero of his time but now a days not so much...that's why it's hard to understand why they would play him as a god on the show itself.

I never got into DS9...it was on around the same time as Babylon 5, which was vastly superior IMHO.

luv

Gin

[Guest Zolrek]

Star Trek built a universe whereas Babylon 5 built a TV show. That's my opinion, anyway.

[Guest NatashaJade]

Star Trek built a universe whereas Babylon 5 built a TV show. That's my opinion, anyway.

True to a point, but the Trek universe is tremendously inconsistent (and it suffered greatly under Braga who cared not a whit for continuity and hit on my wife when she went in to pitch a script...true story - while she was in the office, Ronald D. Moore pokes his head in and said hello). What I loved about B5 was that it was, while a TV show, one of the few shows with a 5 year story arc that was planned and executed exceptionally well. I know it's apples and oranges, but when it came to shows on space stations... Plus, we had an amazing number of B5 drinking game rules.

luv

Gin

[Guest Zolrek]

True to a point, but the Trek universe is tremendously inconsistent (and it suffered greatly under Braga who cared not a whit for continuity and hit on my wife when she went in to pitch a script...true story - while she was in the office, Ronald D. Moore pokes his head in and said hello). What I loved about B5 was that it was, while a TV show, one of the few shows with a 5 year story arc that was planned and executed exceptionally well. I know it's apples and oranges, but when it came to shows on space stations... Plus, we had an amazing number of B5 drinking game rules.

luv

Gin

That's why I also love Star Wars. Star War's is true to it's ways and time line. Trek has never been good with that, but Trek is more techie well Star Wars is more action and emotion.

B5 never really got me but it was still a alright show. By that way I lawled at the B5 drinking game comment.

[Guest DawnK]

The thing you need to remember about all the Star Trek's were that they were written for the masses at different times in human growth. Capt Kirk was the Sixties, Men were men and women were women. The man was supposed to be tough. Not as bad as the 50's, but still extremely sexist. Women in the 60's trek weren't allowed to command a Starship.

The when TNG came around, men were supposed to use their brains more than their brawn. Women could now be Starship captain, but it wasn't still widely accepted.

DS9 saw the birth of the first African American as a Commander (not Captain), but still, he was in Command.

Finally, Voyager was the first Female lead. Until filming actually started, I heard there were plans in place to make Janeway the first officer if department heads fought them.

Enterprise was a film to cash in of the franchise, but wasn't actually classified as Star Trek.

Now, for me, I was a fan from the first show in 66. So I'm TOS and Kirk. It's like your first James Bond. For me, it's Sean Connery. But being a hardcore Trekkie, I didn't attend my first Star Trek convention until 93 or 94. I use the word Trekkies and not trekker, because we were trekkies first. Then Star Wars came out and the press used the word to identify all Sci-Fi fans, so some coined the word Trekker to stand apart again. From 94 until about 2004, I attended many conventions and actually worked Security at quite a few. In Kansas City, I got to be a Body Guard for William Shatner. And when Denise Crosby raped the fans with her film Trekkies, I had answered one of the questions about the lady who wore her uniform to the Whitewater trial and an alternate juror. If you haven't seen Trekkies, don't bother. Crosby told us she was going to show how ST Fans well all established, intelligent people, but focused mainly on the negative side of many fans. I still get peed thinking about it. But if you are one of the few who have it, you can see and hear my answer about 15 minutes into the film. They asked me if I'd want Barbara Adams on my jury if I'd committed and crime, I replied that given the ideals behind Star Trek, I'd think she'd be an asset, but added, and if they'd let me wear my uniform too. That last part never made the film.

But I still believe that Sci-Fi conventions are still the best place to see Hot Women and Men in Awesome costumes. So if you've never been and are a big fan, don't let the SNL skits scare you away. So Cons are pretty cool.

As for the new film, I liked it, but I had to keep reminding myself that it was a new timeline, so everything I knew before, no longer applied. I hope they continue it as a new series.

And for TOS fans, take a look at a website call Star Trek Phase II, produced by James Cawley. He got the rights to film new shows using the old character. Once you get used to the new actors, the storylines are pretty good. Some are even written by the old writers.

And they re-released the original series with new special effects. I like what they did, give it a look.

[Guest viv]

I'm noticing a large number of Trekkies on this board... And I just wanted to say, right on!

More specifically though, I've noticed that a lot of people have Spock as their picture. Which further leads me to the belief that I'm amongst the coolest people ever. So I just had to give credit where credit was due and acknowledge the awesomeness that abounds on this forum.

So yeah.

Live long and prosper.

Grew up with Kirk and the crew ,,,,loved every light year - still do .

luv,viv

[Guest Zolrek]

DS9 saw the birth of the first African American as a Commander (not Captain)

Yes, he was a captain. He became the captain of the USS Defiant(NX-74205).

As for the new film, I liked it, but I had to keep reminding myself that it was a new timeline, so everything I knew before, no longer applied. I hope they continue it as a new series.

The problem was the film may or not be connected to TOS. There is a huge Trekkie debate over future Spock. Some think he is TOS Spock, some think he's just another timeline Spock. If he is the TOS Spock it has a HUGE impact on what we could see as "Trek's future". Which would suck big time - although keep in mind I do know Star Trek's timeline is fluid. Even then it still somehow keeps itself connected with all its differences. Also, there are so many flaw's in the movie that it's kind of sad to pin them all on "Oh, it's just a alternate timeline."

[Guest DawnK]

Yes, he was a captain. He became the captain of the USS Defiant(NX-74205

That's true and I should have mentioned it. I was simply referring to the series beginnings. He didn't make Captain until later, but in the beginning, the press often referred to him as being one of the four Captains of Trek.

[Guest MemoryAlpha]

The new movie was entertaining, but it wasn't really Star Trek like we know Star Trek. In my opinion, it was more like Star Wars with all the action and sci fi fighting and battle scenes and whatnot. It lost some of the ideals of the federation in all the fighting and special effects.

Personally, I think Star Trek had just as much emotion and action as Star Wars, but a different kind. JJ Abrams said in one of the extras on the new DVD "If Star Wars is rock music, Star Trek is classical"

[Guest Zolrek]

Personally, I think Star Trek had just as much emotion and action as Star Wars, but a different kind. JJ Abrams said in one of the extras on the new DVD "If Star Wars is rock music, Star Trek is classical"

Hmmm...yeah you're right. I didn't really go enough into detail with my answer. Trek seems to have paid more attention to its "Treknology" then Star Wars spent on theirs - so I guess I overlooked the fact their both pretty emotional.

[Guest Sam_P]

Whilst I support the 'Picard is best' arguments also, I have to argue for Kirk too. I think for me it was his defiance against bowing to his superiors when they were wrong, and breaking rules when they needed to be broken. (I think Starfleet begrudgingly respected him for that too.) I know Picard was willing to bend and break the rules on occasion too (Insurrection for one) but it's Kirk that shines in this respect for me.

I have to agree that perhaps the latest film was somewhat lacking the depth of our usual Trek adventures, but I often think that of any pilot TV programme/first film of a franchise where they have to spend a long time establishing a large number of characters. The next one's in 2012 right? Hopefully we'll have some storyline improvement now that it's a bit more established.

[Guest MemoryAlpha]

Yeah, the next installment is in 2012, and then after that, I believe the actors have signed on for another movie.

What do you guys want to see in the new movie?

I want Klingons. And tribbles.

[Guest Sam_P]

Yeah, the next installment is in 2012, and then after that, I believe the actors have signed on for another movie.

What do you guys want to see in the new movie?

I want Klingons. And tribbles.

Tribbles for me too please. Watching Spock pet a tribble is hilarious.

[Guest Zolrek]

I want to see no more cannon infringements or I might explode. Rather then that I will watch it for fun.

[Guest MemoryAlpha]

That' the approach I am taking to any Star Trek produced by JJ Abrams. Fun.

Since no one has done this much before me, I am going to give a shout out to Voyager, because on no other Star Trek do people get turned into salamanders and have salamander children with their Captain.

Just finished watching that episode for the 28593485 time. It makes me

[Guest Zolrek]

That' the approach I am taking to any Star Trek produced by JJ Abrams. Fun.

Since no one has done this much before me, I am going to give a shout out to Voyager, because on no other Star Trek do people get turned into salamanders and have salamander children with their Captain.

Just finished watching that episode for the 28593485 time. It makes me

I LOVE Voyager. It was a hoot and that episode was pretty funny.

[Guest NatashaJade]

That' the approach I am taking to any Star Trek produced by JJ Abrams. Fun.

Since no one has done this much before me, I am going to give a shout out to Voyager, because on no other Star Trek do people get turned into salamanders and have salamander children with their Captain.

Just finished watching that episode for the 28593485 time. It makes me

Exactly! For all of J.J Abrams' Star Trek's flaws, it was darned fun. I was smiling through the whole thing (well, mostly the whole thing...Eric Bana always gets me down). As long as the next one is fun, it can take a pulse cannon to the canon...Abrams can never do as much damage as Braga did.

As for Voyager, whenever I watched it, it was fun. Certainly better than Enterprise.

luv

Gin

[Guest nelo]

I want to see more females in the next Abrams movie. Chapel, Rand. I really hope Gaila is still around, and they show that she actually works with the computers (because I really like those cut scenes from the first movie). Also would be cool to know the fate of T'Pring, even if Spock is too young to be thinking about her right now.

Also, some explanation of the Spock/Uhura thing. Because all I saw was random kissing and no substance or meaning to the plot. I can't help but think part of the reason for that relationship at all, besides the sex appeal, was to make Quinto seem less gay and just to mix things up since usually its Kirk who gets the girl. But overall, it was just... lacking.

I also vote tribbles. Scotty already has one in a cage in the first movie, so once he gets it stuff from Delta Vega (Hoth edition), there will be one on board! And with tribbles there can't be just one.

And lastly I want them to explore the consequences of a whole lot of fleet getting destroyed, and the change in their relationships with the Klingons and Romulans, especially since they battled Nero and know Romulus is going to blow up in the future.

[Guest Batsu Maru Otoko Yo!]

Yeah, a lot of people wouldn't agree with Picard being the greatest captain. To me he was my favorite, and like earlier stated he is closely followed by Sisko, but Picard was also very preachy and very anti-religious. Sisko's writers put a lot more time into developing his character then Picard's writers. This is largely due to the graphic abilities that DS9's time had and New Gen didn't. There was so much more that DS9 could do that the older Trek couldn't, which meant more events that could shape Sisko's life and personality. DS9 was also more aggressively devoted to their characters then flying around learning about new species.

Kirk really didn't have all the devices to make his character as great as the newer ones. I think the people who see Kirk as a great captain only do so because they are older Trekkies and grew up with him. The younger Trekkies(who idolize him) do so because he was the original captain - I doubt because of comparing his personality or his character as a whole to the other captains. I especially apply these thoughts to the female fans of Kirk because even if the older Trek showed women in important jobs they where still in lower ranks then all the male's - only because of the time it was filmed it was the norm and accepted. Kirk's womanizing was over exaggerated but nevertheless you can't ignore the original Trek's placement of ranks - it's very out-dated and out of place now.

To be fair, its hard to compare the old Trek's to the new Trek's. You have to take everything into consideration before dubbing a captain the best from all the shows. It's a complex subject to actually say one captain is better then the other.

See, I was literally raised on Star Trek TNG, so I have no choice but to love Picard - I've never really done any deep analysis of the series, I just hold this opinion and have never really had the opportunity to discuss it with anybody except my dad, who is also an adherent to the Way of the Picard. I also share many personality traits with him (Picard I mean), chief among them being that I am areligious and excessively logical (often to my detriment). He's also very loyal to his crew and a good bit smarter (at least in my opinion) and better at playing within the rules than the other captains while still getting things done, qualities which I admire. To me, Kirk is an old-fashioned womanizing jerk who people idolize for no obvious reason. I also don't like William Shatner, so I guess that doesn't help. When I think of what a good captain looks like, the first thing that pops into my head is a stern bald guy in a bodysuit. No lie.

I like Data too.

And hate retconning.

[Guest Sam_P]

That' the approach I am taking to any Star Trek produced by JJ Abrams. Fun.

Since no one has done this much before me, I am going to give a shout out to Voyager, because on no other Star Trek do people get turned into salamanders and have salamander children with their Captain.

Just finished watching that episode for the 28593485 time. It makes me

I think Voyager definitely gets my vote for the funniest, though I have NEVER seen this ep! I've read about it, laughed at its quotes and all but never bloody gone out and found it. *is going to do that today if it kills him*