About Androgyny And Gender

[Guest Micha]

I started my blogyesterday, and seeing as it's kind of about my thoughts on androgyny (more about gender itself, but w/e) and there's a depressing amount of inaction in the andro section, I thought I'd come in and scream "lookame! lookame!" Hope no one minds.

So what I want to know I guess is, what does androgyny mean to you? What do you think about it's relation to gender and the "spectrum" in general? How does it affect your life, and what changes has it brought to you? I don't really wanna talk about clothes or fashion, I'm lookin more along the lines of a way of being, or at least behaviors and thoughts.

I'm still trying to sort the answers to those myself, but it would really be cool if I could have something external to relate it to. Not jus' me comparing my differences with cisgenered peoples, or trying to relate to transsexual people, but people "in between."

Bah, I'm still quite confuse in how to express what I'm trying to get at, hope something made sense.

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

In my case at least, I'm not on a spectrum. It's not like I feel in-between male or female. I feel like neither. I joke with my brother that he's more masculine and more feminine than me. More of a human-being! . This was well-before I had crystalized any of my gender confusion.

Behavior-wise, nothing's changed. I'm just a quiet kid with a lot on my mind, as always. But for a while, before and while I thought of myself as trans, I thought a lot about whether or not what I did was masculine or feminine. When I thought I was trans, I tried to change how I walked, how I sat, my speech patterns, and it drove me nuts how none of it felt comfortable. Now I just don't care. I do whatever's comfortable; the attached gender doesn't matter.

For me, it means doing what I want and not putting myself in any hole. My mood and preferences change day to day and I'm just open to it now.

My therapist says lots of her trans clients come in with schedules with exact dates for their transition steps. She says I'm extremely insightful and self-aware to know what I want could change at any moment. I don't know how much I'm going to change my body, my identity, my life. And, according to her, that's not only okay, it's good. I'm never lying to myself because of a mindset I set at the start. I'll know when I'm comfortable when I get there.

[Guest perlitarose]

Recdnt medical data seems o support the idea tha people with GID have hermaphroditic brains. The degree of F or M seems to specifc to eaach individual, and also seems to change with age

[Guest nelo]

I think it was through the asexuality livejournal community that I first learned that there was something other than "male" and "female." The term I began to identify with was "agendered." Non-gendered. Not "genderless" though, because I am identifying with something, not nothing. It's all a bit confusing though, the terms. But that's okay, language is oftentimes confusing, especially when it comes to identifying oneself. That was back is 2006.

I don't know when I stopped thinking of myself as a "girl." When I was a child, I believe I did think of myself as one, because that was what I was told I was. But at some point, maybe it was when I learned of "agender" it all clicked into place, or maybe it was before that, but it is definitely how I think of myself now. One time I was with my dad and complained about "girls" as if I was not one (because I'm not) and my dad turns to me and goes, "aren't YOU a girl?" I had to quickly say, "ah, not a GIRLY girl, is what I meant."

When I was an assisstant instructor in Tae Kwon Do, it was rather annoying. I thought it'd be like the military (I didn't have any female instructors, so I didn't know how it'd be) where everyone was "sir." Nope. It was one thing to be "Miss [name]" but I found that I greatly hated "Yes ma'am!" I believe that it wouldn't have been so much an issue if the kids did it instinctively, but instead the instructor had to constantly "correct" them, just bringing attention to the fact.

This instructor once also greatly embarrassed me. When the kids were having problems getting the sir/ma'am thing (they're young class, 4-8 years or so I think), and other assistant instructor was there also, he went, "I am Mr. M-, I am a sir. This is Miss J-, she is a..." and the kids said "ma'am." Then he got to me and said "This is Miss S-, she is a..." and half the kids said sir, half said ma'am, and one said toothbrush. The toothbrush thing was probably the only redeeming part about the whole experience.

In general, the realization has not changed my life much. I am who I am. But somewhat recently, I read about trans issues on livejournal. I realized that agender can actually be trans, and that I really needed some people to talk to about it. I realized I want to change some things about myself. Things that I never talk about. I thought I was content, and I was, I am, at least compared to other times in my life. But I also think that there could be improvement.

I have one person that I've "come out" to, years ago. I guess in the general scheme of things, the topic just doesn't come up much. My asexuality seems to come up more often (though even that quite rarely). I've always been like this. I don't try to hide myself. I dress how I want to, act how I want to. Maybe people have misconceptions about me, but if they don't confront me about it, I have nothing to say.

Sometimes I wish people would confront me about it. So I could talk about it. So I could be more "out" even if that doesn't mean changing how I am on the outside, just maybe changing the way people perceive me.

Sometimes it's sort of lonely. But I have been happy to discover more like myself lately. I've also been happy to be with all the different kind of trans people here on Laura's. I feel like I belong.

Also, I've been noticing something lately: "andro" as an abbreviation for androgynous. I see it on tumblr a lot, whether talking about the gender identity or the style. I don't think it's a good abbreviation. It's taking a word that means "man" AND "woman" and making it just "man." Maybe drogyn would work, it's only one more letter than andro.

[Guest Micha]

This instructor once also greatly embarrassed me. When the kids were having problems getting the sir/ma'am thing (they're young class, 4-8 years or so I think), and other assistant instructor was there also, he went, "I am Mr. M-, I am a sir. This is Miss J-, she is a..." and the kids said "ma'am." Then he got to me and said "This is Miss S-, she is a..." and half the kids said sir, half said ma'am, and one said toothbrush. The toothbrush thing was probably the only redeeming part about the whole experience.

Awesome, toothbrush!

That's something else I noticed recently, and then hindsight being 20/20, realized it's always been like that. Being called a he or a she doesn't bother me at all. I'm used to "he" and I smile to be called a she, but I suspect if it'd been happening as often I'd be as indifferent about it as with the "he" thing. But I can see how the lack of a. . .suffix? Pronoun? W/E, that is kind of annoying, yet another limitation.

Never though of "andro" like that, but you make a good point.

[Guest Micha]

For me, it means doing what I want and not putting myself in any hole. My mood and preferences change day to day and I'm just open to it now.

That's a good way to think, I admire it and wish so much I could get my self consciousness to go away.

Thanx for the input!

[Guest Chrysee]

I started my blogyesterday, and seeing as it's kind of about my thoughts on androgyny (more about gender itself, but w/e) and there's a depressing amount of inaction in the andro section, I thought I'd come in and scream "lookame! lookame!" Hope no one minds.

So what I want to know I guess is, what does androgyny mean to you? What do you think about it's relation to gender and the "spectrum" in general? How does it affect your life, and what changes has it brought to you? I don't really wanna talk about clothes or fashion, I'm lookin more along the lines of a way of being, or at least behaviors and thoughts.

I'm still trying to sort the answers to those myself, but it would really be cool if I could have something external to relate it to. Not jus' me comparing my differences with cisgenered peoples, or trying to relate to transsexual people, but people "in between."

Bah, I'm still quite confuse in how to express what I'm trying to get at, hope something made sense.

To me, long before I dared to look at how much of me it was, it was a purely spiritual thing. I bought the Rider/Waite Tarot deck when I was 18 (quite few years ago, I admit.) I remember looking at The Fool card and reading about how androgynous the character was. That was probably the first time I ever heard the word. I recall thinking how carefree and daring this pretty character with a pesky little dog was, about to step over the cliff and plunge deep into the beginning of the Journey.

Later, I understood that this very Everything of ours began when two currents, one masculine and one feminine spun two circles and in their midst engendered Our Creator, who was both energies. That is the perfect balance.

And as each of us is a Creator, so do we each contain both energies.

I wanted to respond to you and though I kept this a little too vague (each of us is a Creator? Explain?) I didn't want it to get transplanted to the Spiritual section.

Hope that at least gives you something to think about above and beyond fashion, etc.

[Guest Micha]

To me, long before I dared to look at how much of me it was, it was a purely spiritual thing. I bought the Rider/Waite Tarot deck when I was 18 (quite few years ago, I admit.) I remember looking at The Fool card and reading about how androgynous the character was. That was probably the first time I ever heard the word. I recall thinking how carefree and daring this pretty character with a pesky little dog was, about to step over the cliff and plunge deep into the beginning of the Journey.

Later, I understood that this very Everything of ours began when two currents, one masculine and one feminine spun two circles and in their midst engendered Our Creator, who was both energies. That is the perfect balance.

And as each of us is a Creator, so do we each contain both energies.

I wanted to respond to you and though I kept this a little too vague (each of us is a Creator? Explain?) I didn't want it to get transplanted to the Spiritual section.

Hope that at least gives you something to think about above and beyond fashion, etc.

It does, and you captured my interest with "balance." The concept is very attractive to me, and balance itself has had a very important role in my life (a concept now inked into my right forearm ). I would love to hear more about it, and I certainly don't mind discussing it here. The ideas seem like they'd remain on topic for this board, but either way. * shurgs*

[Guest Chrysee]

It does, and you captured my interest with "balance." The concept is very attractive to me, and balance itself has had a very important role in my life (a concept now inked into my right forearm ). I would love to hear more about it, and I certainly don't mind discussing it here. The ideas seem like they'd remain on topic for this board, but either way. * shurgs*

Glad that sparked your interest. I just dropped by before ending the day, but will go into much more detail tomorrow.

Are you familiar with the Kabbalistic Tree of Life? Hermetic Magick?

Later,

Chrysalis