What Does Masculine/feminine Mean To You?

[Guest KimberlyF]

My therapist asked me this last week towards the end of our session and it kinda threw me for a second then I recovered. Why do I identify as female?

To make this simple, I know everyone has m & f traits but I'm going to use 'everyman' as my example of masculine and 'everywoman' for the other.

Masculine is def more physical. My brother and father were pushing each other on the dance floor at my wedding reception and it almost went to blows because one of the idiots wronged the other or something. My wife was telling me to do something. I should have told her right there honestly Hun, I'm a girl too. if they start fighting I'll race you under the tables.

And talking is optional. Guys tell me all the time I talk too much. Uh no...they don't talk enough.

They seem more animalistic/driven by instinct. A few examples of this to me is their laserlike focus on sex. These guys I work with send naked pics of women back and forth to each other and most every female that comes up in conversation is sexualized. Possible SCJOTUS? 'I'd do her.' Women do this too, but not to the degree and often there is the fantasy commitment-Mrs. Brad Pitt.

Also in the masculine/instinct deal, men are less likely to expose weakness like animals in the wild. Never go to doctors to check stuff out. It'll fix itself. When someone hurts a kid, the vicious mother bear that comes out of timid women to protect them is instinct. Masculine just to me seems more in touch with their inner beast.

Women for their part are way more emotional and fight with words, which sometimes do longer term damage.

I've seen ads from the same company. For male sites it says 'Find sex on the Internet.'. For female sites it says love instead of sex.

Agree,disagree problems, things to add?

[Guest therisa]

My therapist asked me this last week towards the end of our session and it kinda threw me for a second then I recovered. Why do I identify as female?

To make this simple, I know everyone has m & f traits but I'm going to use 'everyman' as my example of masculine and 'everywoman' for the other.

Masculine is def more physical. My brother and father were pushing each other on the dance floor at my wedding reception and it almost went to blows because one of the idiots wronged the other or something. My wife was telling me to do something. I should have told her right there honestly Hun, I'm a girl too. if they start fighting I'll race you under the tables.

And talking is optional. Guys tell me all the time I talk too much. Uh no...they don't talk enough.

They seem more animalistic/driven by instinct. A few examples of this to me is their laserlike focus on sex. These guys I work with send naked pics of women back and forth to each other and most every female that comes up in conversation is sexualized. Possible SCJOTUS? 'I'd do her.' Women do this too, but not to the degree and often there is the fantasy commitment-Mrs. Brad Pitt.

Also in the masculine/instinct deal, men are less likely to expose weakness like animals in the wild. Never go to doctors to check stuff out. It'll fix itself. When someone hurts a kid, the vicious mother bear that comes out of timid women to protect them is instinct. Masculine just to me seems more in touch with their inner beast.

Women for their part are way more emotional and fight with words, which sometimes do longer term damage.

I've seen ads from the same company. For male sites it says 'Find sex on the Internet.'. For female sites it says love instead of sex.

Agree,disagree problems, things to add?

There some very huge emotional differences, between the two genders, in the way, we response to a situation, but that can vary, by the person. Personally, never understood, why guys have this fascination with cars, trucks and motorcycles. When I said, I rather buy a Smart Car over a sports car, the looks and comments made to me, were not very polite. This is something, I realized when I talk a friend, who is transman, and how we react to joke or attutide towards life, in general.

[Guest NatashaJade]

Masculine and feminine are, to me at least, mostly constructs of the advertising industry used to convince us that we must be a certain way and consume a certain way.

For instance, it used to be that men would use soap. Maybe a deodorant soap like Irish Spring or some such thing. Mostly Ivory. 99% soap, right? Men certainly did not use body washes or even contemplate Dove unless it was what the wife left in the shower and there was nothing else. Now? Dove Body Wash for Men. Why? Because the male beauty supply industry is just taking off. Men are slowly being convinced that body hair is something to shave off. They are slowly being convinced to soften their skin. Just watch. Over the next decade or so, men will slowly be convinced that a little bit of make-up will make them more attractive. Guyliner is a real thing.

Why? Because there's profit in it.

Convince women that power tools will make them more attractive and they will start buying them. We are programmed to consume (at least in America).

As far as instinctual male/female traits, over the next 100 years, many of those things will disappear as genetic selection will no longer be a product of best possible physical mate due to medical science and genetic modification. If we're no longer looking for the most masculine men (buff hunter/leaders) or the most feminine women (healthy baby producers), there will be less homogenized male/female behaviors.

That's my weird opinion, of course.

luv

Gin

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

I see masculine/feminine behaviors as more instinctual...

Like said...women have a "nesting" ability or need...

Men have the need to "Hunt" or bring home "the bacon"...even if it's work in an office, they are still mostly the provider ..

There are even physical differences that define masculine/feminine...

Men: broad shoulders for leverage to life, muscle mass, even the broiw ridge is there to help protect the eyes from the sun and sweat running into them...

Women: Of course have wider hips to carry children, and much less strength because the skeleton can't support heavy lifting..

But, behaviors are less inbred and more "learned"...

The way we stand, walk, use our hands, etc...

Us MTF's start using more feminine gestures to help us blend in better ...

As Gin said...in these modern times...the gender lines are sometimes becoming more towards the center...

Donna Jean

[Guest KimberlyF]

There some very huge emotional differences, between the two genders, in the way, we response to a situation, but that can vary, by the person. Personally, never understood, why guys have this fascination with cars, trucks and motorcycles. When I said, I rather buy a Smart Car over a sports car, the looks and comments made to me, were not very polite. This is something, I realized when I talk a friend, who is transman, and how we react to joke or attutide towards life, in general.

This is pretty funny cause when I was younger I hung around with lots of artsy music guys...who also built cars from the ground up. I didn't know a Chrysler from a cantaloupe. When I got my first car after spending hundreds of hours in the garage with these guys I had a conversation like this:

"So how many cylinders is it?"

"The regular amount. I didn't pay for extra. But I got a cool stereo."

Then I went home and found out what he was talking about. It was a four banger and everyone told me it was a chick car. They had no idea.

[Guest NatashaJade]

This is pretty funny cause when I was younger I hung around with lots of artsy music guys...who also built cars from the ground up. I didn't know a Chrysler from a cantaloupe. When I got my first car after spending hundreds of hours in the garage with these guys I had a conversation like this:

"So how many cylinders is it?"

"The regular amount. I didn't pay for extra. But I got a cool stereo."

Then I went home and found out what he was talking about. It was a four banger and everyone told me it was a chick car. They had no idea.

My first car was a powder blue'69 VW Bug. Totally a chick car. I was such a girl, too. The oil light kept coming on and I kept ignoring it because no one ever told me I had to pay attention to it. I guess they thought I was just supposed to know. I would occasionally open the hood and look at the engine and think "Yup! It's an engine alright." I thought it was "air cooled" which mean that I didn't have to worry about oil. $1000 dollars, a crazy German and a new engine later taught me an expensive lesson.

I just bought a new car and I cared more about the MP3 plug and the arm rest than what it had under the hood.

luv

Gin

[Guest therisa]

Me and power tools, are not a good combination. Least, not for the tools. Give me, a mixer or food processor, I am, in heaven. Finding new recipes to cook and modify, if need be, for my diabetes or food preferences. Always, been that way for me, even as a young child.

[JJ]

It can be very hard to separate cultural stereotypes-wich get programmed in-and instinctive behavior.

I believe much of the old men aren't verbal, they focus on cars, they sexualize all women is purely cultural. A learned expression of some things that are basic behaviors and drives.

I do believe most males are by nature more competitive than women. That expresses itself in hundreds of culturally sanctioned ways. Even watching spots is I think partly an expression of that through identification with te participants. Not all men identify tat way and so are not into sports.

I believe men tend to be more direct and confrontational. When there is a bar fight how often is it women? How many women break out into figts at sports events. That would be a natural result of the evolutionary process. The better fighter overpowered rivals and got to father children. So it became a part of the nature of men. As did a more linear approach because the man who went straight for the goal more often brougt home provision and his children lived to reproduce.

Awareness of women, seeing them as potential sex objects it built in but historically men defended women more than degraded them. To parade your woman before other men verbally was a potentially divisive and dangerous thing to do. I think the current situation is both relativeky recent culturally and correlates to the rise of power in women and their rejection of being defended by males. Also women needed more than just sexual qualifications to successfully raise children and pass on the male and female's caracteristics.

At one time-and still in many cultures-men were expected to be verbally articulate and able to express their feelings. again the current situation is relatively modern in origin. A stereotype. Many of our greatest books have been written by men. And you cannot write great literature unless you are both articulate and in touch with your feelings.

I could go on and on-but basically you have to look at what served te defender provider role for men and the nurturer, make use of those provisions role of women as we evolved to see what roles are instinctively male and female. Much of it is in the approach to life.

Jj

[Guest nelo]

I have a hard time differentiating the masculine/feminine traits at time. Some is genetic. Some is not. Really, even the genetic characteristics could've changed through the many years of human evolution.

I heard something about way back when people were hunter-gatherers, grandparents would take care of the kids, and young men AND women would hunt (and gather).

But I admit I mostly don't get it because my feminine looking mom is quite masculine in attitude and my masculine looking dad is quite feminine in attitude, and I was raised to really not to do whatever I wanted. I don't like physical violence, but my mom will get into a physical fight. I like gardening, but it's my dad who shares my green thumb. My mom hates to cook. My dad likes to take photos of beautiful scenery. Both have a caring instinct for me and their pets. Both know how to take care of themselves, be independent, without reliance on the "opposite sex" (though my dad is remarried now).

It's sort of annoying that I feel like I embody more of the "feminine" traits, like non-violence, gardening, cooking, crocheting, being very empathetic... and I like cute things... but I don't feel female.

So in the end, a lot of this stuff may be true to a general population, but there are always plenty of exceptions.

I must admit, I never even looked at a lot of stuff as being feminine or masculine until I came to Laura's. There are a lot of topics on it!

[JJ]

So in the end, a lot of this stuff may be true to a general population, but there are always plenty of exceptions.

I must admit, I never even looked at a lot of stuff as being feminine or masculine until I came to Laura's. There are a lot of topics on it!

You hit it on the head there. theere is a wide spectrum and we range all over it-and each one is valid and good. You are blessed in being given an open view so you can chose and follow your own pat more easily.

There are so many topics on it in part because it is so confusing for so many of us. Because we want to figure out what this gender means that we know so strongly that we are willing to sacrifice everything to be. And because we are confused between the conflicting cultural and biological messages we receive.

Just keep being what makes you happy-regardless of any labels society has stuck on a particular behavior!

[Guest Polly]

It's taken years for me to reognise that I don't comprehend male / female , man / woman etc .

Autism and gender stuff has wiped out much of what others understand .

Having to be a ' good boy ' , I looked for friends and mentors to learn ' good boy '

Naturally , Tomboy / Butch / ' Masculine ' XX people .

I can easily ' sense ' XX virilty and the difference twix Autistic women who seem to be abrupt and ' manly ' ,

girls just doing so-called boy things and every colour in the Rainbow .

But only among XX people , it's like a frequency which is other than not XX people .

This must sound confusing , 'cos it is from inside too !

[Guest Evan_J]

I appreciate all that you said about men and women in your initial post, however, I don't see how it answers the question posed by the therapist. Not being a critic, just "forwarning" you I suppose if you return that as your answer.

That being said, (and realizing that my way of thinking and then actually telling people what it was I thought has a tendency to not exactly be received well at all times lol....)I'll still participate in the conversation

For me, "masculine" is whatever makes a man feel like a man.

"Feminine" Is whatever makes a woman feel like a woman.

That's it.

[Guest KimberlyF]

I have a hard time differentiating the masculine/feminine traits at time. Some is genetic. Some is not. Really, even the genetic characteristics could've changed through the many years of human evolution.

I heard something about way back when people were hunter-gatherers, grandparents would take care of the kids, and young men AND women would hunt (and gather).

But I admit I mostly don't get it because my feminine looking mom is quite masculine in attitude and my masculine looking dad is quite feminine in attitude, and I was raised to really not to do whatever I wanted. I don't like physical violence, but my mom will get into a physical fight. I like gardening, but it's my dad who shares my green thumb. My mom hates to cook. My dad likes to take photos of beautiful scenery. Both have a caring instinct for me and their pets. Both know how to take care of themselves, be independent, without reliance on the "opposite sex" (though my dad is remarried now).

It's sort of annoying that I feel like I embody more of the "feminine" traits, like non-violence, gardening, cooking, crocheting, being very empathetic... and I like cute things... but I don't feel female.

So in the end, a lot of this stuff may be true to a general population, but there are always plenty of exceptions.

I must admit, I never even looked at a lot of stuff as being feminine or masculine until I came to Laura's. There are a lot of topics on it!

That's why I said in the OP that I was kinda set back a little when my therapist asked me because it's not something I dwell on. I always just figured people could be and do what they wanted. The rest of the world isn't there yet. My wife isn't very fem unless there's a bug around, yet she's had two kids and doesn't question her gender.

As far as JJ's post about writers back in the day, just listen to the radio and see how many more male singer/songwriters there are. You really notice it if you're trying to sing and work on a fem voice and can't find a woman on 10 presets.

[Guest KimberlyF]

I appreciate all that you said about men and women in your initial post, however, I don't see how it answers the question posed by the therapist. Not being a critic, just "forwarning" you I suppose if you return that as your answer.

That being said, (and realizing that my way of thinking and then actually telling people what it was I thought has a tendency to not exactly be received well at all times lol....)I'll still participate in the conversation

For me, "masculine" is whatever makes a man feel like a man.

"Feminine" Is whatever makes a woman feel like a woman.

That's it.

LOL I answered her already. She grades on a curve and I think I'm OK but I've just been thinking about it since then.

So men can't be feminine and women can't be masculine? And if a woman can be and is being masculine does she feel like a man?

[JJ]

What seems strange to me in all this is that all those years I spent feeling like I was a woman with a man's MIND and always feeling I could never quite get it right I was increasingly depressed and miserable. But when I realized I am a man it all changed-everything about my inner life changed and I am much happier.

There has to be something more than this action is masculine and this is feminine involved here. Something more basic-I really identify as a gay male. But again why-and I still feel masculine-felt it even before I knew cultural norms so it seems there is someting more fundamental involved in masculine and feminine than just behavior.

Any ideas what?

JJ

[Guest Evan_J]

LOL I answered her already. She grades on a curve and I think I'm OK but I've just been thinking about it since then.

So men can't be feminine and women can't be masculine? And if a woman can be and is being masculine does she feel like a man?

I was waitin for ya to ask

How about this though, If a man does an action that the world says is feminine does he feel like a woman? Or does he feel like a man doing an action that pleases him?

Just because you do an action someone else labeled a certain way does it make you feel like EITHER? Or is it not possible to do the action and still feel like your sex? THATs what I'm getting at; I think the sensation of feeling masculine or feminine defines the action not the other way around.

[Guest KimberlyF]

I was waitin for ya to ask

How about this though, If a man does an action that the world says is feminine does he feel like a woman? Or does he feel like a man doing an action that pleases him?

Just because you do an action someone else labeled a certain way does it make you feel like EITHER? Or is it not possible to do the action and still feel like your sex? THATs what I'm getting at; I think the sensation of feeling masculine or feminine defines the action not the other way around.

Don't know...that one might be case by case because there are plenty of hetro CDs who totally give in to their Fem side while a guy just having tea and scones with friends isn't automatically feeling like a woman.

For the past 25 years I've been out to myself as a TS. I tried to just put all of that aside and just live like a guy would live. At no point did I feel masculine doing them. I mostly felt uncomfortable. On the few occasions where I was able to be more myself I was still perceived as male so while I was happier and more comfortable, I didn't really feel feminine which might just sum up my personal GID and discomfort lol.

[Guest Evan_J]

Don't know...that one might be case by case because there are plenty of hetro CDs who totally give in to their Fem side while a guy just having tea and scones with friends isn't automatically feeling like a woman.

For the past 25 years I've been out to myself as a TS. I tried to just put all of that aside and just live like a guy would live. At no point did I feel masculine doing them. I mostly felt uncomfortable. On the few occasions where I was able to be more myself I was still perceived as male so while I was happier and more comfortable, I didn't really feel feminine which might just sum up my personal GID and discomfort lol.

A hetro CD "giving in to their Fem side" is in their own consciousness "defining" what they are doing as feminine. If not they don't get the feeling that they are.

A guy having tea and scones is not feeling like a woman because his consciousness has not labeled the instance as "behaving like a woman" .

When you were pretending to be a man, and did things that other people (the world at large) has labeled as "masculine" is it not possible that just because it has the label it doesnt guarantee it will generate the sensation of what it is to be a man unless manhood itself is inherent in the experiencer?

And when you did the things that made you happier , just because they made you happier didn't mean THOSE things actually on your individual list of things archetypically identified as being "those of a woman". The key there is that that list is individual to all people. Its why I say the people (or their sensation) define the words not the words come pre-defining what peeps experience or feel off of certain actions.

[Guest KimberlyF]

A hetro CD "giving in to their Fem side" is in their own consciousness "defining" what they are doing as feminine. If not they don't get the feeling that they are.

Ok.

A guy having tea and scones is not feeling like a woman because his consciousness has not labeled the instance as "behaving like a woman" .

Or, maybe they think it's behaving like a woman but just like when I was spending the last 25 years purposfully "behaving like a guy" and not feeling it, he just doesn't identify himself as a woman so he'll never feel like one?

But either way, this was an answer to your question where I said it would have to be case by case and I gave to examples.

When you were pretending to be a man, and did things that other people (the world at large) has labeled as "masculine" is it not possible that just because it has the label it doesnt guarantee it will generate the sensation of what it is to be a man unless manhood itself is inherent in the experiencer?

Yes.

And when you did the things that made you happier , just because they made you happier didn't mean THOSE things actually on your individual list of things archetypically identified as being "those of a woman". The key there is that that list is individual to all people. Its why I say the people (or their sensation) define the words not the words come pre-defining what peeps experience or feel off of certain actions.

Now this one I think is a little more complicated. I think it could be more along the lines of people who switch attractions after HRT. I really think there is so much inner turmoil going on with a TS that sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees. Maybe the exact same things that I do now and I don't feel fem, I'll feel very fem after 6 months on hormones? And not so much because the hormones are changing me, but because I'm growing more comfortable with me.

[Guest Polly]

For me it's about how any individual perceives perself .

When ' listening ' to lost XX little girls [ of any age ] I will reduce it down to XX or XY and encourage per to decide who s/he is .

Most times people are boxed in by others perceptions , but I can't do this [ nor won't ]

It's an awesome privilge to be there when s/he shrugs off years of inflicted roles and per raw , wild , ' child ' breaks through ...

which is when it's time for me to move on ...

I am ' talking ' online with one ' sister ' who in just 5 short months of being heard and believed , has blossomed amazingly .

... I am trying to work out what Masculine and Feminine is , but it's kinda not about convention for me , it comes down

to being embraced within Her Frequency , with all of Her Rainbow , which i have been blessed by on many occasion ...

Polly dee

[Guest Evan_J]

Maybe the exact same things that I do now and I don't feel fem, I'll feel very fem after 6 months on hormones? And not so much because the hormones are changing me, but because I'm growing more comfortable with me.

Seeing as how that leads back to a facet of "inherent" manhood or womanhood I'll buy that too

I've got issues But I never claimed otherwise.

[Guest Donna Jean]

Seeing as how that leads back to a facet of "inherent" manhood or womanhood I'll buy that too

I've got issues But I never claimed otherwise.

Gotta love an honest man!

Donna Jean

[Guest KimberlyF]

Seeing as how that leads back to a facet of "inherent" manhood or womanhood I'll buy that too

I've got issues But I never claimed otherwise.

Okies...I'll buy what you're buying -but I'll have to change your orig definition just a bit. Cause I think it was pretty good and K.I.S.S. usually works, but like a gay man who lives as a hetro for 30 years without admitting he's gay, sometimes the answers to things like attraction and this question aren't all that easy at times and there are exceptions .

"Masculine" is whatever makes a man feel like a man, and "feminine" is whatever makes a woman feel like a woman even if the person is not self-aware, not honest with themselves or too uncomfortable with their sense of self to notice.

Last night when my wife painted my toe nails, it was an awesome fem experience for me and those have been few and far between in my life. If she had tried the same thing like 6 years ago before I was out to her back when she thought this whole thing was about sex, I would have just felt really uncomfortable and wanted her to stop. Last night I kinda wanted her to put on about 5 coats. 6 years ago I was so uncomfortable dressing in front of her. She thought the dressing was a turn-on. It bothered me to my core. Since I've come out to her completely, I've worn women's pjs bra&panties in front of her every night for like 2 weeks and I feel awesome every evening when I get dressed.

Anyway this topic is kinda interesting to me because there really isn't easy answers to some of these questions even though we all have unique views into gender and sexuality. Yet it's so easy to expect people we come out to to 'get it' instantly.

Kar

[Guest I'm Trisha now]

This is part of the reason I am scared to see a gender therapist. Now I am feminine and all but I also like cars alot. Femine to me means that I can be my real self and express myself how I would like to. People make assumptions about who I and how to treat me and I hate it. I am not tough or macho inside I am emotional and frage but yet everytime I am upset I get told to toughen up or stop being a girl. I'm no fighter or anything and yeah I am more of a caring emotional I like cars and stuff and have a car I'm doing that but I also have a girly side that I can't get out. Now why cant I be a girl when all my friends are Tom boy chicks who like cars? I don't think a therapist would think much of me if as a girl if I gave an answer like that but bring a guy feels wrong really really wrong. Yeah, feminity means to me soft and nuturing, kind, soft, emotomally but most of all being myself.

[Guest KimberlyF]

This is part of the reason I am scared to see a gender therapist. Now I am feminine and all but I also like cars alot. Femine to me means that I can be my real self and express myself how I would like to. People make assumptions about who I and how to treat me and I hate it. I am not tough or macho inside I am emotional and frage but yet everytime I am upset I get told to toughen up or stop being a girl. I'm no fighter or anything and yeah I am more of a caring emotional I like cars and stuff and have a car I'm doing that but I also have a girly side that I can't get out. Now why cant I be a girl when all my friends are Tom boy chicks who like cars? I don't think a therapist would think much of me if as a girl if I gave an answer like that but bring a guy feels wrong really really wrong. Yeah, feminity means to me soft and nuturing, kind, soft, emotomally but most of all being myself.

Don't stress. I like hockey. Shhhhh.

I'd never play it lol.

But I find an amazing beauty to the game even though there is this violent undercurrent. It was a girl who got me into the game so I get a free pass

Last time I checked, Danica Patrick was a girl. Well, I didn't really check, but that's what I read.

Kar