Question For "stealth" Transpeople...

[Guest Honstu]

Now as a disclaimer of sorts, I'm not trying to offend anyone or be antagonistic in ANY way. It's just that I was reading this really good series feature "A Transgender Journey" by a UK transwoman. What I like most are reading the comment section which range from people who are just learning about trans people and asking questions to people who offer their support to the young lady. I came across this one comment and it got me thinking about political activism for the T "community".

Here's what was written:

wotever

18 Jun 2010, 3:06PM

[Original Poster:"Gradually, I came to define as 'transgender'. I understood that transgender could include cross-dressers, transvestites, male-to-female (MtF) and female-to-male (FtM) transsexuals, and anyone else who considered themselves beyond the traditional gender binary."]

I'd take issue with that statement, true transsexual people tend to not view themselves as beyond the gender binary.

In fact, true transsexual people actively reinforce the gender binary by transforming their bodies and lives to the gender identity they believe themselves to be.

You won't spot true transsexual people in the street, they don't tend to wear pink sunglasses and platinum wigs. But, you probably know someone who is true transsexual post op (but you just don't realise it).

This is not dressing up or going to gay bars or crossdresser clubs, but embarking on, possibly, a very lonely journey that involves many painful and expensive surgeries. Often resulting in alienation from previous friends and family.

The end result is often homelessness, unemployment and destitution. It's not a lifestyle choice. ... If it was I don't think it's one that ANYONE would choose.

The good news is, that post op, but sometimes only after a few years, almost anyone post op can blend and 'pass' and life can become tolerable, and even enjoyable.

If you want to see where transsexual women socialise, go to where women, socialise. There is no difference.

Most transsexual women, like any other women, don't particularly frequent the LGB /T . Unless of course they are lesbian.

The vast majority of true transsexual people on the whole are very private about their past. They won't be campaigning or demanding rights. You will not know who they are.

Unfortunately this silent majority have been hijacked over the years by vocal empire building 'trans' and LGBT campaigners, who claim to represent them. They don't!

These T activists are able to get away with their false campaigns only because true transsexual people are in no position to stand up against them, otherwise they will 'out' themselves.

Naturally, I was curious as to what others would say in response. Do others feel the same way? Do you know other people who are "stealth" and have no interest in fighting for trans rights? Do you feel that trans organizations out there are genuine in their concern for transpersons rights? I haven't begun to transition yet, but I want to become involved in the local organizations as a start. As I stated before, I'm just curious to hear from those who have transitioned at some stage, so if I've offended anyone, I apologize in advance.

Thanks,

Wes

[Guest Donna Jean]

Not a black an white situation, Wes...

Where to begin?

I'm 60 and transitioning....

I've lived in my community for 20 years...

Will I go stealth?

No, I can't...everyone around here knows me and will know what is going on..

I have no problem with that...

Young transitioners?

They most likely will fade away into the woodwork and be whom the need to be...

If I were 20 and doing this I'd get a husband, house and have a life...at my age I cannot do it that way..

Some of us us take up the banner and advocate..we want to change how things are...

But ....people have to remember...

So many of us were born in the wrong body...we just want to make it right and live our lives....

Tough call....

Donna Jean

[Guest Leigh]

i don't feel the need to be "out" as trans to advocate for transgender rights. but, that doesn't mean that i agree that trans people who are "stealth" aren't challenging the binary. i'm male, yes, and in that way i "fit" in the binary....but i'm in no way typically male. and in our transitions we all challenge the binary. mostly i'm offended that the original poster feels that s/he has the right to speak for all trans people and that those speaking out for our rights don't.

peace&love

[Guest Honstu]

Hi Donna,

Thanks for responding. Yeah, I get that some people just want to transition and move on with their life. But for me, I think of job protection (or lack thereof) and the other instances of discrimination that anyone might go through as they BEGIN their transition and...well, that's what prompted me to start thinking of getting involved in trans rights movement.

Wow, I'm in awe/admiration that you're brave enough to transition in your community. It's definitely inspiring since I keep imagining myself moving to the other side of the country to transition. I'm guessing maybe you have a lot of supportive family and friends? Was it terribly difficult? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

Wes

[Guest Evan_J]

ii'm offended that the original poster feels that s/he has the right to speak for all trans people and that those speaking out for our rights don't.

peace&love

There's the irony isn't it? That the person who submitted to that site takes such offense at being spoken for and yet does it themself.

But, Wes, that is the purpose of your question isn't it? To allow us to speak for our selves. There are times, when not looking at this situation as a whole, that I too have made the error of believing that by my appreciation of some elements found in tradional roles I am "reinforcing the binary". However, the truth is, that the more affecting act of transitioning , in and of itself, is the most contrary to the binary action that any person can likely undertake. It is because it calls the crux of each component of it into question and questions each definition and each gender's fundamental compositions. Anything else (the donning of the word "man" or "woman" and execution of either following it, then becomes potentially misleading to someone accusing of reinforceing. And if you can pick out what is in between then you will see that in truth EVERY trans person who transitions is an activist just by merit of existence.

We could go through the 999 ways a person who is stealth can perform additional activism, but is it really necessary to?

[Drea]

I tend to view stealth primarly as a concept promoted by those pre or in transition as well as some portion of those post transition who have not yet integrated, or haven't yet reached fully acceptance.

The idea of stealth, suggests a feeling of shame perhaps, but one of hiding and most of all a level of insecurity.

I know people who have transitioned and matured to the point that, while they don't advertise they are trans, they don't activly conceal it other than simply not mentioning. They don't consider it the end of the world if someone finds out.

For as long as I been involved within the community it seems that most of those who transition move on and seem to no longer be involved to any degree. Especially politically. There are those who remain politically active but they seem to be a smaller portion. I wouldn't describe this decision as a matter of being stealth or not. I am sure there are those who feel it would mean they would have to be "out" to be involved politically, but I think there is more to it. I suspect that a significant portion of the post transition folks actually do not agree with the actions/desires of those who are politcally active. That many actions that are proposed can actually seem threatening. Furthermore, they may feel they are different than those seeking political changes and that their needs are and were always different.

One example of a difference in point of view that I can think of is in the area of awareness. Person A transitions, got through all the telling people, transitioning on the job etc and all settled into their new gender role. Possibly have moved or changed jobs to avoid the problem of still being preceived as their prior gender. They learned that how they are treated when people know (even totally accepting people) is quite different than those who never knew. They also discover that while they pass, that passability is directly related to awareness level. They learn that it is harder to pass when awareness is high because people are more likely to recognize them as trans. Thus they can easilly find the idea of increasing awareness a direct threat to their desire to be private.

By contrast, those in transition or simply contemplating transition, fear non-acceptance. And belive awareness improves probability of acceptance thus are all for increasing awareness as it provides a solution.

The points of view are very different. Since the "community" tends to have a very low tolerance for those in the community who have a different point of view, they rather not even bother expressing their feelings.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Drea
Changed "they rather not even both expressing their feelings" in last paragraph to "they rather not even bother express their feelings within the community" to corret word error clarify intended meaning.

[Guest Evan_J]

harder to pass when awareness is high because people are more likely to recognize them as trans. Thus they can easilly find the idea of increasing awareness a direct threat

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

Lets not lose sight of our core feelings here....

Point in case....

I'm a woman. I know that to be true in my heart. There is nothing that I'd better want than to be able to become invisible. To go shopping, work, walk down the street and have people look past me...like any other woman on the street.

I want to lose the handle "Transgender and Transsexual"...I want to just be known as that "woman" Donna Jean.

I know that's not in my stars because of many factors...my age, location and my need to help the community.

But, I hold no ill will against those brothers and sisters that lose themselves in their new lives because doing that is the entire point of this exercise...

Just my opinion.....

Dee Jay

[Guest Alice4016]

Stealth can be tricky to be honest; I am bad with memory so I can't remember who mentioned this but someone said stealth has something to do with being shameful etc? I have to disagree; I don't tell people anymore, other than my doctors of course who NEED to know, otherwise I would say I am living "stealth" I do not live near any friends etc who would have known me pre-op etc etc. For some, especially in my situation, it is not really "kosher" to be trans so I keep it under wraps. Muslim community is not the most accepting, mainly stemming from a huge misunderstanding of a few verses from Quran etc.; and anyway it is honestly safer for me to remain in stealth.

On another note I absolutely love being stealth, not out of shame or embarrassment, but for the simple fact that I am treated like a normal girl. I mean, none of my close friends know (lost many of my friends that I had pre transition simply by becoming Muslim lol go figure), and I do not feel like it is needed for us to have valid meaningful relationships; and apparently it is not being that we get along just fine. Going stealth should not always have the connotation of meaning you are embarrased or ashamed; honestly I feel it's more about finally assimilating into society; some people do not want to spend their lives always "making a point to be different" I like being part of the crowd. Live and die peacefully, I"ve done the "fighter" thing; and it's a drag and gets you nowhere. Maybe it's my religious views that give me this view though; as I feel this world is pointless and you should focus on the next. I don't know where I"m going I guess I was just super hurt by someone making the assumption that anyone going stealth is insecure etc...quite a generalization.

Being stealth can be very rewarding but it has it's downsides as well; meaning Amanda and I who were married before transition have to accept that we are no longer going to be considered married (until usa makes some changes and allows gay marriage). It would take a huge amount of explanation and "outing" for people to understand our relationship status since I can no longer legally (thank God) mark M on any forms etc. Also, it hurts me to see the rights of Transgender/transsexual friends and others being stepped on without being able to say something; but honestly sometimes (this may sound selfish but it's not always awful to consider your well being) you need to do what is right for you and let others fight their own battles :S sorry if that sounds mean.. I"m not mean lol

Best wishes, sorry if this came off heated; just I am proud of my situation and absolutely love nobody know I finally completed a goal in my life, and it's magical!

Nashida

[Guest Alice4016]

By the way Donna your post practically made mine unnecessary lol And do not loose hope of being "stealth" the girl who was at the hospital right after my surgery was 79 years old and totally passable It's just a matter of time

[Guest Honstu]

Muslim community is not the most accepting, mainly stemming from a huge misunderstanding of a few verses from Quran etc.; and anyway it is honestly safer for me to remain in stealth.

Nashida

Hey Nashida,

(this is totally off topic btw)

Did you ever see this documentary called "Be Like Others: Transsexuals"? I saw it on HBO in the wee hours of the morning. It's about the Iranian government's approval of gender reassignment surgery for documented Transsexuals. Frankly, I was surprised to hear that Iran was so progressive about it, but then I saw the movie and it left me with a lot of unanswered questions. Anyway, just wanted your two cents.

Now related to the topic-- I don't think you're post was mean. I understand your personal point of view. Hearing other people's perspective about this has helped me to view this issue a little differently than I was before, so thanks for commenting!

Wes

[Guest Nikki A]

hey, if i try to become the first transgirl president, will u guys vote for me?

hugs, Nikki

[Guest Alice4016]

Hey Nashida,

(this is totally off topic btw)

Did you ever see this documentary called "Be Like Others: Transsexuals"? I saw it on HBO in the wee hours of the morning. It's about the Iranian government's approval of gender reassignment surgery for documented Transsexuals. Frankly, I was surprised to hear that Iran was so progressive about it, but then I saw the movie and it left me with a lot of unanswered questions. Anyway, just wanted your two cents.

Wes

Lol hmm..this is a strange situation to be honest. The story behind the okay for the surgery is pretty moving, but to be honest this is being abused by many gay couples allowing one man to undergo the surgery and therefore be "legal" under Shariah. This is a severe abuse of the ruling, and has lead to many problems with people killing themselves etc Sad story but true, sadly homosexuality will never be accepted in Islam, for that reason my partner and I always call ourselves sisters (ie. we were married before transition so we have the same last name) and do so based on a hadith of Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) that says for us to cover our sins and keep them private; a fatwa recently issued from Egypt attests to similar understandings with not only homosexuality, but transsexualism as well. I would like to post a fatwa given by a scholar I asked a few months ago when I was struggling with grasping both Islam and my "situation".

From Shaikh Ahmed Kutty:

"I empathize with your condition; I also commend you for your earnest desire to practice Islam and remain steadfast in it. I advise you to turn to Allah seeking comfort and forgiveness. You can do so by reading the throne verse (chapter 2: 255 ) as well as the last verses of the same chapter: 284-286.

You need not feel guilty about your action. The Prophet (peace be upon him) ordered us to seek treatment and take medications when we are sick; we are also allowed to undergo corrective procedures when necessary. So your action does not fall in the forbidden category.

Remember that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. He tells us in the Qur'an: "Say: "[Thus speaks God:] 'O you servants of Mine who have transgressed against your own selves! Despair not of God's mercy: behold, God forgives all sins - for, verily, He alone is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace!'" (Qur'an: 39: 53)."

A Shaikh is a qualified scholar able to give opinions that should be followed by the ummah (Muslim population), and their fatwas should be derived from the general understanding and agreement of the community. What Islam forbids is having SRS, etc etc simply for sexual reasons etc. if you have GID, which is a abnormality, we are allowed in Islam to seek medical and corrective procedures. So, in Iran they, if it was enforced properly, following the correct interpretation of the Quran; but it is the people who are abusing the rights therefore that is where the stigma comes from. Many in the community associate all transsexuals with those gay couples abusing the fatwa and ruling It's a complicated situation, and out of fear of hijacking a tread maybe best to start it's own? Anyway, that's the best I can give off the top of my head lol I am not open at school etc so I have not brought this up in any depth in my classes to speak from any point of authority; so please do not take anything as "official" Muslim stance. The fact is the situation in Iran is a great example of the ability of Islam to be accepting and applicable to everybody's lives. (even homosexuals/lesbians, as my partner and I and many others are examples if you have no problem being in the closet)

also just mentioning the reason you stay in the "closet" is so as not to encourage the behavior to continue you know what I mean? Sexuality even for straight couples is kept very private in the Muslim community, so it's not surprise we are expected to be that way as well.

I really hope this helps answer your question it seems like I either a. got off subject, b. ranted, or c. avoided the question. InshaAllah it helps

[Guest Honstu]

Hi Nashida,

Don't worry. It was nice just to have the conversation. Clearly I don't know that much about it, so I take your input as just that- your personal opinion. It's just more to think about. Thanks!

Wes

[Guest SailorGirl]

I've been full time for over two years and post-op for over a year. I pass most all the time. When I don't it's because I didn't try. But I am a passive activist. By that I mean I will gladly speak up for trans rights anywhere, anytime. I just don't go out there and initiate an event.

I've always considered myself fairly tough minded but my transition challenged me a lot and I'm proud I not only survived but am doing pretty well today. It wasn't easy. So if anyone wants to take me on about being trans or having transitioned, I'll gladly accept. The negative stigma has to be changed. I'm 59 and most likely won't see a lot of change in my life but I can't just sit back. There are kids out there who need us to stand up for them. That's why I'll stand in front of a crowd and essentially out myself. I'm paying back the earlier pioneers who paved the way for us, the pioneers of today.