Just The T Without The Lgb

[Guest April63]

There is the problem the homosexuality and transsexuality are different things, and people do sometimes mix those things up. Some people think that all transsexuals are gay (maybe all the gay people are really transgender too...). Now, we're working to end those stereotypes, but the problem will still exist for a while. The problem with working for acceptance with the gay community is that you might just end up with getting acceptance as a homosexual.. Not really the desired result.

So to get the big numbers you want want to start a LGBAPPTTBATTTCPGMSMFAAAAECJGMHBCSJPERGNMACSNsAALBeFPLCMDRIGLRLCREMPDBCVVFHEogtIsf group.

That's a: (take a deep breath)

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Asexual, Pansexual, Polysexual, Transsexual, Transgender, Bigender, Androgyne, Trigender, Transgenderist, Transvestite, Crossdresser, Polygender, Genderqueer, Monogender, Straight, Male, Female, African, Asian, American, Australian, European, Christian, Jew, Gentile, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Confucian, Sikh, Jain, Pagan, Egyptian, Roman, Greek, Norse, Mayan, Aztec, Celtic, Smoker, Non-smoker, Alcoholic, Addict, Laborer, Business-executive, Farmer, Politician, Lawyer, Carpenter, Miner, Democrat, Republican, Independent, Green, Left, Right, Liberal, Conservative, Radical, Extremist, Moderate, Pacifist, Disabled, Bodybuilder, Carnivore, Vegetarian, Vegan, Feminist, Humanist, and Every-other-group-that-I-sadly-forgot group!

The point is, yes, you need numbers for acceptance, but if you don't have enough in common with the other groups you might impair your ability to reach your goals. The LGB community advertises itself as being gay. That's like its campaign platform. If it were "gender issues" or "problems with society's view and role of gender", it might be better. But it's not--it's only homosexuality. So while there are issues that are helpful to everyone is the LGBT community, the group that really works for this is the "problems with society's view and role of gender" group, and that just doesn't exist.

When you see an ad on television to vote for a certain proposition (let's say it's about oil regulations), and you notice it's paid for by a group of gas companies, what do you think? Do you think the ad is 100 percent truthful? No, because you're seeing the oil company group. The oil company group works to accomplish its own, selfish needs. Just like any other group. You can't mix environmentalists into that group very well. If you do, they become assimilated into the oil companies. They lose their reputation for protecting the environment. They're no longer environmentalists, but gas guzzlers. In reality, they could both just be businessmen trying to compromise, but that's not how society sees it. The same thing here. LGBT = gay. That's society's view and label for the group.

[Guest Cowboy]

There is somethin on my tumblr page i reblogged the other day. and actually agree with it more, than starting a 'T' exclusive group. Like everyone else has said, there is strength in numbers.

Anyway, this is what was posted.

OGSM: Outside the Gender Sex(uality) Mainstream

We should start using OGSM instead of LGBT, because it's more all-encompassing.

It stands for "Outside the Gender Sex(uality) Mainstream".

It includes all that the acronym LGBT includes, plus whatever is left out of the acronym like pansexual or intersex or what have you. c:

IMO: You would probably have more luck using the strength of numbers within the LGBT community to change LGBT to a more suitable acronym, than singling out one group.

[Guest Evan_J]

OGSM: Outside the Gender Sex(uality) Mainstream

I actually like that.

And I realize the topic is actually about inclusion or exclusion but I needed to say:

I get you Ashley. I have a lot of those same ...knot creating thoughts though mine center around a penis. Taking a few minutes just now to disect "why" and I think it might be because you DO pass so completely well. Hear me out. Because you do pass so completely well, there sort of has become this very heavily weighted "expense" if it crashes down. Because SO many people , and a lot of em potentially homo/transphobic accept you the fear factor is that much more magnified IF they were to find out. Its different if you've had looks or people wonder along the way because you feel like "well, at least SOME of these people potentially could know already and so there are that many less to be really reactive, that much less of the life I've created to lose, that much less far to fall.

Is that any of it? And I'm not for on milisecond suggesting I have an answer, just that I could undestand.

[Guest Jean Davis]

So to get the big numbers you want want to start a LGBAPPTTBATTTCPGMSMFAAAAECJGMHBCSJPERGNMACSNsAALBeFPLCMDRIGLRLCREMPDBCVVFHEogtIsf group.

That's a: (take a deep breath)

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Asexual, Pansexual, Polysexual, Transsexual, Transgender, Bigender, Androgyne, Trigender, Transgenderist, Transvestite, Crossdresser, Polygender, Genderqueer, Monogender, Straight, Male, Female, African, Asian, American, Australian, European, Christian, Jew, Gentile, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Confucian, Sikh, Jain, Pagan, Egyptian, Roman, Greek, Norse, Mayan, Aztec, Celtic, Smoker, Non-smoker, Alcoholic, Addict, Laborer, Business-executive, Farmer, Politician, Lawyer, Carpenter, Miner, Democrat, Republican, Independent, Green, Left, Right, Liberal, Conservative, Radical, Extremist, Moderate, Pacifist, Disabled, Bodybuilder, Carnivore, Vegetarian, Vegan, Feminist, Humanist, and Every-other-group-that-I-sadly-forgot group!

Hey April honey

There's already a much shorter name for the group you described.

It's called the HUMAN community.

And once this community evolves a little more so that we aren't picking out every little difference between us, perhaps we can get rid of all those other lables and just stick with the one.

After all HUMAN is much easier to say and remember then the rest of them and no one gets offended when you call them that.

LUV

Jean

[Guest April63]

Hey April honey

There's already a much shorter name for the group you described.

It's called the HUMAN community.

And once this community evolves a little more so that we aren't picking out every little difference between us, perhaps we can get rid of all those other lables and just stick with the one.

After all HUMAN is much easier to say and remember then the rest of them and no one gets offended when you call them that.

LUV

Jean

Aww, but LGBAPPTTBATTTCPGMSMFAAAAECJGMHBCSJPERGNMACSNsAALBeFPLCMDRIGLRLCREMPDBCVVFHEogtIsf is more fun.

[Guest AshleyRF]

I actually like that.

And I realize the topic is actually about inclusion or exclusion but I needed to say:

I get you Ashley. I have a lot of those same ...knot creating thoughts though mine center around a penis. Taking a few minutes just now to disect "why" and I think it might be because you DO pass so completely well. Hear me out. Because you do pass so completely well, there sort of has become this very heavily weighted "expense" if it crashes down. Because SO many people , and a lot of em potentially homo/transphobic accept you the fear factor is that much more magnified IF they were to find out. Its different if you've had looks or people wonder along the way because you feel like "well, at least SOME of these people potentially could know already and so there are that many less to be really reactive, that much less of the life I've created to lose, that much less far to fall.

Is that any of it? And I'm not for on milisecond suggesting I have an answer, just that I could undestand.

I do believe this is part of it, yes, because as far as I know I have never been clocked. No one has ever given me a funny look or seem to question what I am even when I don't bother putting on makeup (even though I don't understand why they don't because I don't believe I look remotely female) Yes, I constantly fear that I will one day loose this. I worry my voice will deepen or somehow everyone will see me the way I see myself in the mirror. I don't know what I would do if my world all came crashing down on me.

[Paula ult]

Ashley,

We do not have all the problems with aging as GG's do because we are on hormones for life, this is not to say we will not get wrinkles, just about everyone does, genetics plays a part in it and so does if we keep in shape as we grow older.

I am 58, before i transitioned i had deep forehead wrinkles, they are gone now and people say i look like i am in my 40's, god i wish.

Except those that knew me before and knows that i transitioned, everyone else sees me as just another women, i guess i worry a little about being outed or clocked but i am too old to really give a durn.

Since the first of the year i have lost 40 pounds, i have not noticed that i look more masculine or that my breasts have gotten any smaller and i have 20+ years on you.

One of my housemates is like you, she is 25 years old, 6'1" and does not think she passes because she says she is too tall, believe me she passes, if she would do a little something more with her eyebrows and work more on her voice nobody would ever be able to tell.

Ashley i do not know how many people have say you pass with flying colors before you will believe it, what if all your worry about being outed or aging never happens, you will have worried for nothing and put undue stress on you and everyone around you.

Paula

[Guest AshleyRF]

Ashley,

We do not have all the problems with aging as GG's do because we are on hormones for life, this is not to say we will not get wrinkles, just about everyone does, genetics plays a part in it and so does if we keep in shape as we grow older.

I am 58, before i transitioned i had deep forehead wrinkles, they are gone now and people say i look like i am in my 40's, god i wish.

Except those that knew me before and knows that i transitioned, everyone else sees me as just another women, i guess i worry a little about being outed or clocked but i am too old to really give a durn.

Since the first of the year i have lost 40 pounds, i have not noticed that i look more masculine or that my breasts have gotten any smaller and i have 20+ years on you.

One of my housemates is like you, she is 25 years old, 6'1" and does not think she passes because she says she is too tall, believe me she passes, if she would do a little something more with her eyebrows and work more on her voice nobody would ever be able to tell.

Ashley i do not know how many people have say you pass with flying colors before you will believe it, what if all your worry about being outed or aging never happens, you will have worried for nothing and put undue stress on you and everyone around you.

Paula

Because unfortunately when it comes to my appearance... I am a perfectionist.

[Guest Selene Lavelle]

And so I ended up telling her the truth. Of course she acted surprised and told me that she was perfectly cool with that and everything was great. Until the next day. The very next day all the flirting came to a complete halt. Even when I tried to flirt with her she just kind of ignored it or didn't respond to it. Now, we hardly talk anymore. Even though I know we were never going to be together and nothing was every going to come of what we shared, it still made me feel good to have someone flirt with me like that. I didn't love her but I did have feelings for her and when all the flirting came to an crashing end, it hurt me. I even cried over it a little because it once again made me feel insignificant and unlovable and it was all because of what I am. If I had just been a lesbian and nothing more, she would not have reacted this way.

So you ask me if I'm bitter about being transgendered. Yes I am!!!! I HATE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has caused me so much pain and heartache in life that I have just lost all hope.

I know this one all too well and it hurts so much. I would LOVE to be seen as "just lesbian" because really that's what I feel I am. I agree with what you said earlier: What's the point in transitioning if you're going to just be seen as trans?

It seems I cannot run with the "trans" label so I become very frustrated. *sigh* I know this all too well Ashley... and sadly it's something we face very often. What are we going to do about it though? I mean I'm going to live stealth once everything is all done because well... I want to drop a label I never wanted.

Don't get me wrong, being trans has some perks but I'd love to drop the label as quickly as possible. I'm sorry if that hurt anyone.

Love,

Selene Lavelle

ps. Sorry if this is hella late, I haven't had internet access the past few days.

[JJ]

By definition one cannot cease to be a transsexual. Any more than one can cease to be blue eyed or dark skinned. You can change your body, and identity even, but not the fact that you were born in the wrong body.

HOWEVER-that doesn't mean you have to link that in your mind with the body and identity you have achieved or are striving to achieve. You can say-I am a woman-or I am a man. A standalone statement. Just as you can say I am transsexual. A statement of fact about the medical condition of your body. Or you can embrace all that means and say I am a transwoman or transman-and so tie your gender to your medical reality.

That is for each person to decide. But you can't become a non-transsexual with any amount of transition.

But as I said neither do you have to define yourself by it. Do women who've had hysterectomies go around calling themselves by some definitive name like barren women or hysto women? Or men who have ad vasectomies or accidents refer to themselves as altered men? No because their medical condition does not define their gender any more than transsexualism need define ours. They can if they want to do os-because with being trans it identifies that we have made a difficult journey and ave both courage and determination. Some people want to wear that proudly while others want to forget-which is an individual choice. Valid choices. Both. But both remain as they were born. Transsexual. Whether the choose to publicly label or not.

The following are dictionary definitions of transsexual:

A person whose gender identity is the opposite of his or her biologic sex

Mosby's Medical Dictionary

From another dictionary:

1.One who wises to be considered by society as a member of the opposite sex

2. One who as undergone a sex change operation

JohnJ

[Carolyn Marie]

2. One who as undergone a sex change operation

JohnJ

*sigh*

I wish we could get people to use the term "gender reassignment surgery." I really hate the

term "sex change."

End of rant.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Ha!

I don't care that much anymore because nobody seemes to care that a 6'-3" amazon (me) just walked into the restaurant. Strange world!

I don't know why I pass so well, attitude is probably a big part of it actually, but I am not sure. So what is it? I feel like a woman, and BY GAWD I act that way! Maybe that.

Somehow that translates to that horrible/wonderful impliment of humankind - THE MIRROR!

I do see me now when I look into that mirror - I just do. No man ever looks back, only a woman. But then I am kinda nearsighted.

Lizzy

[JJ]

Lizzy

It's because you are a woman. Just are. Even in male mode you are all woman. People are just going along with what they've been told at work.

I believe it is in your very heart-and it just shines out. The eyes you use to look into the mirror are a woman's eyes-and of course see themselves reflected back.

Love,

JohnJ

[Guest AshleyRF]

I still see far far to many traits of "him" left. I wish "he" would just go the hell away and never return.

[Guest Natalie92]

*sigh*

I wish we could get people to use the term "gender reassignment surgery." I really hate the

term "sex change."

End of rant.

Carolyn Marie

I'd agree, except you're forgetting one fact Carolyn Marie: the surgery changes our SEX not our GENDER. GENDER reassignment surgery would mean going into our brains and changing things around.

Natalie

[Guest NatashaJade]

I'd agree, except you're forgetting one fact Carolyn Marie: the surgery changes our SEX not our GENDER. GENDER reassignment surgery would mean going into our brains and changing things around.

Natalie

Which is why I prefer Gender Alignment Surgery.

But, to be fair, Natalie, it changes our physically manifested gender.

luv

Gin

[Guest Donna Jean]

I'd agree, except you're forgetting one fact Carolyn Marie: the surgery changes our SEX not our GENDER. GENDER reassignment surgery would mean going into our brains and changing things around.

Natalie

LOL...technicality, Natalie........

Donna Jean

[Paula ult]

I'd agree, except you're forgetting one fact Carolyn Marie: the surgery changes our SEX not our GENDER. GENDER reassignment surgery would mean going into our brains and changing things around.

Natalie

Dr. Mcginn calls it GCS gender confirmation surgery.

Paula

[Guest AshleyRF]

I just call it a BDCS Birth Defect Correction Surgery

[Guest NatalieRene]

I just call it a BDCS Birth Defect Correction Surgery

nice name, I second that.

[Guest April63]

I feel old fashioned--I like SRS.

[Guest KimberlyF]

SRS doesn't bother me one way or the other. They could call it BYU-Bob's your uncle and if the results were the same, I'm ok with it.

Sex change does grate on me slightly. And that's what my therapist says. One of these days I'm gonna tell her you know how you keep telling me to stand up for myself? Be careful what you wish for, cause you've said some things I've found mildly annoying...

I still really like her and there's very little dead space week after week where one of us isn't talking.

Kim

[Guest kelise]

Dr. Mcginn calls it GCS gender confirmation surgery.

Paula

I really like this one

[Guest Donna Jean]

I really like this one

ditto...........

dj

[Guest Melissa 67]

Ya, I like the usual SRS like April said or sex-change is nice to. I don't feel the need to be nit-picky about it. Anyway the fact that some people find the need to have to be perfectly specific about it is very uncomfortable, and makes me feel unconfortable with the whole thing. People don't usually try to describe something about themselves and are so worried about getting the definition right. If you need that much self-justification then there's a problem or rather you might perceive it as a problem.

Melissa 67