A Curious Question(S)

[Guest Orva26]

(continued from title)...want my little friend to keep on working. Now I know that the hormones WILL eventually make me go sterile but what if I just want to still be able to get er... um... hard.

I'm just sort of starting out with this and am curious. I know that some people can still achieve that after hrt and that some others can't. Is there any known way to make it happen? I've heard something about being on T-blockers and estrogen for two weeks then taking a week off with just estrogen and that will still give the curves and breast just on a little longer timescale than with T-blockers full time. I don't mean to cause any offense, I'm legitimately curious about this. I sort of have this caution because when I've been with a girl I really liked it and my thoughts of becoming female were near non-existent but I think I might really like to have a feminine body with breast and curves from hrt but at the same time I'd like to still be able to, well you know.

[Guest Opal]

Hi Orva,

As far as I know, there is no known way to be sure of male functionality after being on HRT. Have you discussed this any with a Gender Therapist?

Maybe some others will want to weigh in on this question. Sorry I do not have a better answer for you.

Huggs,

Opal

[Guest Orva26]

Well, I haven't talked with a gender therapist about anything yet. Until I actually start at my new job I'm kind of not able to. Might not be able to for a few months. I'm kind of trying to learn as much about stuff as I can before getting to that point. I'm curious about HRT but am also afraid that if I dive in too early I might end up in the group that realizes its not for them only when it is too late. That's why I'm curious about this regard specifically. I think your answer is probably right Opal but I do hope that someone on here know definitively.

Also I'll pose some more questions provided people don't mind sharing. They'll probably get more answers but please don't forget about my first one. Is there anyone who was freaked out by the decrease in male functionality while on HRT? How did you manage with it, was HRT stopped or was the budding new feminine sexuality so wonderful and encouraging that you continued? What is that shift of views like?

[Carolyn Marie]

Orva, while it is certainly possible to continue having erections after being on HRT for a while (the word "impossible" is rarely heard in

medical journals), from everything I have read and heard, it is extremely unlikely after more than about 6 months.

I have not heard of starting and stopping HRT in order to slow the effects. The vast majority of TS folks want those effects to happen as

soon as possible. There may be medical reasons why taking hormones in that fashion wouldn't be a good idea, but you would need to consult a

doctor for specifics. Even at a slower rate or lower dosage, the effects on the reproductive system will still be cumulative, and at some

point, permanent.

The bottom line is that HRT is not like a Chinese restaurant menu; you can't choose one from column A and one from column B. You get the

entire combo meal, with the fortune cookie thrown in too. While YMMV still holds, I wouldn't count on being able to maintain functionality

down below for much longer than 6 months, and possibly a lot shorter than that.

Don't be afraid to ask whatever questions you have. We aren't medical professionals, but we'll answer as best we can.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest KimberlyF]

I have no idea how this happens but it happens. There are people living full time as females taking hormones and having fully functional penises for decades that I've talked to. I don't get into talking meds with them and I didn't really talk sex with them but they consider themselves lesbian, and I'd guess their partners would have to consider themselves bi?? Hey, whatever works for them. But it is possible. There are plenty of web sites out there where you see this kind of thing which btw is how most of the world gets their view on what a Transsexual is.

I am aware of some shrinkage from my HRT and loss of functionality. As far as I'm concerned it can't shrink enough and it would be functioning again in this lifetime by my choice.

As far as budding female sexuality I honestly haven't thought about sex in a few months other than as a philosophical discussion here maybe. Its nice to not dwell on it. T-blockers for over 3 months and estro for over 3 weeks.

Kim

[Guest Orva26]

That how I thought things would work. But as you said most are looking to loose that aspect so I'm guessing there probably isn't a whole lot of research on trying to keep functionality through HRT. I'll probably have to ask somebody with a medical degree to really figure this out. In the mean time I'll have to think about what it will mean to loose that, and what it means to me right now.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I have no idea how this happens but it happens. There are people living full time as females taking hormones and having fully functional penises for decades that I've talked to. I don't get into talking meds with them and I didn't really talk sex with them but they consider themselves lesbian, and I'd guess their partners would have to consider themselves bi?? Hey, whatever works for them. But it is possible. There are plenty of web sites out there where you see this kind of thing which btw is how most of the world gets their view on what a Transsexual is.

I am aware of some shrinkage from my HRT and loss of functionality. As far as I'm concerned it can't shrink enough and it would be functioning again in this lifetime by my choice.

As far as budding female sexuality I honestly haven't thought about sex in a few months other than as a philosophical discussion here maybe. Its nice to not dwell on it. T-blockers for over 3 months and estro for over 3 weeks.

Kim

Bogus, my opinion.

I cannot understand these references to people with such wild claims - yet no facts are ever given. Please don't say things as if they are hearsay, things without confirmation. I have also been in contact was many post op T-Girls and not a single one has ever experienced what you describe. You cannot rely on what people say on the internet if they are not authenticated, like we do here at Laura's. Too many pretenders, admirers, wannabes... and outright liars.

The true situation is HRT chemically castrates we MTF who use it, usually by six months at the latest. It's all or nothing - you use HRT to transition, and it makes you female chemically, totally. That's a fact, not supposition. That is why we are screened so carefully and are in the care of both therapists and physicians, Both professsions clearly explain all this - and you sign several documents stating you clearly understand this. Did you have this? I hope you are not self medicating.

Just trying to be honest with the membership here.

Lizzy

[Guest Elizabeth K]

That how I thought things would work. But as you said most are looking to loose that aspect so I'm guessing there probably isn't a whole lot of research on trying to keep functionality through HRT. I'll probably have to ask somebody with a medical degree to really figure this out. In the mean time I'll have to think about what it will mean to loose that, and what it means to me right now.

Note: there IS research on this and HRT in doses needed to effect transitioning DOES destroy penis functionality. See the post above.

[Guest Orva26]

Lizzy,

I guessed it would be quite uncommon but I have heard of it. Never had real life verification though. And no, I don't have either professionals to help me out at the moment. I'm also not and never will be self-medicating for anything more than a head-ache. I'm actually the person who yells at friends when they try to self diagnose serious problems. I'm also a chemist with an advanced degree who knows and understands full well how easy it is to put out fake meds or dope other sinister things into them.

I'm very early in this and I'm basically just trying to gain as much knowledge as I can. As the others said you can see this type of thing on the internet but it appears that it is not typical. I'm guessing some ED meds out there are the cause. I am really asking to confirm something I thought was true in nearly all cases, that if I want to get the curves and breast I'll have to make sure I'm okay with the other loss first.

Kim,

From your description it seems like you're loosing the male sex drive and gaining peace and calm. But is there any other longing in its place? Are you finding yourself wishing for a relationship?

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Lizzy,

I guessed it would be quite uncommon but I have heard of it. Never had real life verification though. And no, I don't have either professionals to help me out at the moment. I'm also not and never will be self-medicating for anything more than a head-ache. I'm actually the person who yells at friends when they try to self diagnose serious problems. I'm also a chemist with an advanced degree who knows and understands full well how easy it is to put out fake meds or dope other sinister things into them.

I'm very early in this and I'm basically just trying to gain as much knowledge as I can. As the others said you can see this type of thing on the internet but it appears that it is not typical. I'm guessing some ED meds out there are the cause. I am really asking to confirm something I thought was true in nearly all cases, that if I want to get the curves and breast I'll have to make sure I'm okay with the other loss first.

Kim,

From your description it seems like you're loosing the male sex drive and gaining peace and calm. But is there any other longing in its place? Are you finding yourself wishing for a relationship?

I answered this but the computer dumped it - I believe everything happens for a reason, so I will not redo it - sorry.

Lizzy

[Guest sarah f]

I am 7 months in and have no sex drive what so ever. I can however still become construct and that really bothers me. I was hoping by now nothing would be going on down there. Hopefully soon it will stop. I hope this helps your question that it can last longer then 6 months but not very often.

[Sakura]

the erectile dysfuntion . is mostly due to the sharp decrease. in libedo . with in a year or two of taking a theraputic dose of HRT . the question will most likely not be " can i ?' will prolly be along the lines of " well i want to....... but i would rather read this book instead" there are times when i can't even stand my boyfriend to look at me with that twinkle in his eye . so it is quiet possible it will kill your desire long beofre it kills your penis.

two reasons why you shouldn't start and stop HRT . one its dangerouse to your health. two it wouldn't give you any effect at all . starting and stopping hrt constantly can increase you risk of blood clots and other problems with blood preasure and cardiovascular systems spiro is an alpha blocker first and a t blocker as a secondary effect. its also used to treat hyper tension high blood pressure along with a few other things.

and testosterone drop for drop is far more powerfull than estrogen . taking for a few weeks then stopping. and having T rush back in and undoing anything the HRT might have started doing . so alls you would be doing is throwing money away .

these drugs. can be incredibly dangerouse . and unpredictable from one person to the next. before taking any of them you need to be 150% sure of what you, want speak with a therapist. and work out a game plan that is right for you. don't mean to come off as the big B . just worried about your health is all.

Sakura

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

Well, here's a firsthand account.....

As male I was always able to function...every time....

Now after 21 months on HRT I can no longer make it work...

Even when highly aroused (and I have been) nothing happens down there...and I don't want it to...That is a male organ and I just want to be rid of it...

As a female, I don't want a functioning male part!

Donna Jean

[Guest Penelope]

Hi Orva,

In this instance I don't think you can have your cake and eat it.

Some of us tread a path between male and female by cross dressing. I haven't tried them, but you might find that using breast forms would help you.

This site is full of warnings about how dangerous hormones can be.

All the best,

Penny

[Guest Orva26]

I answered this but the computer dumped it - I believe everything happens for a reason, so I will not redo it - sorry.Lizzy

Now you've gone and spiked my curiosity. I don't mean to be a pest but if you could re-type your response I would be grateful. Though, if you really would rather not don't worry about it.

All around I'm getting good answers out of this topic. I didn't know that testosterone blocking effect of spiro was only secondary. I have heard of it being used for other things but I figured that was when they were also linked with abnormally high testosterone production. The knowledge I've gained so far hasn't really dissuaded me from considering this option. I had pretty much already thought hormones were kind of an all or nothing thing and the prospect of loosing that functionality isn't horrifying or repulsive. Rather the thought makes me apprehensive. Its been there for half my life pretty much so it is difficult for me to wrap my head around what it would be like if it were gone. I'm also a bit cautious because my feelings on this are fairly well characterized in this paper:

http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/becoming_what_we_love.pdf

Since arousal is part of it I need to be really careful about what I consider and what I do. But its strange, a little before I joined up here I was getting something else as well, something that I guess would be described as a longing. Its almost like the realization that becoming female will be feasible for me, especially financially, threw a switch in my brain that I can't seem to turn off and I don't really want to. The notion that it may not have to exist solely as fantasy is both comforting and strange. Although I did it before now it is becoming the natural thing to observe woman I don't know socially rather than sexually. I find myself sort of studying their habits, what they wear, why they would wear it (as in are there any consequences for their body type), and even keeping a special eye out for ones that I think I would end up like physically if I do end up transitioning. When I type it out it actually seems a little creepy.

I really do appreciate all the concern everyone is expressing for me. The more thought I put into this the more and more I'm realizing the inescapably of it. If my first thought when seeing a woman is not how to be with her but rather how to be like her it tells me that there is something going on. Its becoming quite obvious that I should seek out a GT when I can afford to but in the meantime, learning is the way to go. You know, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE, THE MORE YOU KNOW, etc.

[Guest kelise]

This is definately something to discuss with your HRT-prescribing doctor. I know I may be a rare case, but in my case I was on an unusually high dose of estrodiol, spiro, and later on prometrium for 4 years, and though I gained a little more "control" over it, that little fink still stood at attention every time things got a little hot in the bedroom right up till surgery. It annoyed the crap out of me, I hated it. And it probably explains why Marci proclaimed me the "biggest bleeder of the week".

[Guest KimberlyF]

Bogus, my opinion.

I cannot understand these references to people with such wild claims - yet no facts are ever given. Please don't say things as if they are hearsay, things without confirmation. I have also been in contact was many post op T-Girls and not a single one has ever experienced what you describe. You cannot rely on what people say on the internet if they are not authenticated, like we do here at Laura's. Too many pretenders, admirers, wannabes... and outright liars.

The true situation is HRT chemically castrates we MTF who use it, usually by six months at the latest. It's all or nothing - you use HRT to transition, and it makes you female chemically, totally. That's a fact, not supposition. That is why we are screened so carefully and are in the care of both therapists and physicians, Both professsions clearly explain all this - and you sign several documents stating you clearly understand this. Did you have this? I hope you are not self medicating.

Just trying to be honest with the membership here.

Lizzy

The USA is one country and the ecperiences here do not complete reality make. Therisa is going to start a T blocker that's more effective than what we get here and used in lots of other parts in the world. I mentioned a Halloween party I went to decades ago Before here w/a lot of TSs and CDs. It was in NY state. At the time HRT consisted pretty much of premarein(sp?) here? I know cause I like I posted before I was in the underground (shhhhhhh) and I got mine in the mail in a plain brown envelope.

At this party was a Canadian woman in her late 20's who's parents supported her so she had lived as a female since 14. She had started taking hormones early so had some curves and you'd never know w/cloths on...but *gasp* I saw her neked. What struck me at the time was the oddity of seeing a penis that was uncircumcised for the first time. No idea to this day if its how things are done up there? I know it's colder? Now I did not see any tricks and I took her at her word when she said she was fully functional. Don't know why'd shed lie and she seemed pretty cool and comfortable w/herself even though I could not understand why she wanted *that*. She was one of a couple that I knew personally and I saw her and touched her. She wasn't hearsay.

I never talked about the drugs she took. I just figured she took the same as we took. I am trying very hard to track down the host of the party so I can provide references. She was a GG and I was really close and an incident happened and we drifted apart. If nothing else this thread is sending me to google w/a few new search ideas.

People can and will believe what they want. It makes absolutely no difference in my life.

Kim

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

It just goes to show that every case is different.....

I think that Lizzy is talking about the generally accepted effects of HRT and of course we all know people that have had different effects than the normally accepted physical things...

This is what most gender doctors will tell you that will "likely" happen...

Sexual Changes

Because testosterone is responsible for the development and maintenance of the male sex characteristics, when testosterone levels are opposed by higher levels of female hormones, testosterone will become less effective. Men who take female hormones may be subject to a number of changes affecting the physical state and functioning of the sex organs. These risks may include decreased testes size, lowered sperm count and erectile dysfunction along with loss of libido. In addition, men taking female hormones may develop gynecomastia, or the growth of breast tissue in men, along with darkening and enlargement of the nipples.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/54614-risks-men-taking-female-hormones/#ixzz15HJFgGpd

This is "generally accepted"....but not the law....

Lots of different things happen to different people...

I've seen some girls that have been on HRT 7-10 years and still easily pass as male and others that can't pass as male in 6 months...

All different....

One size doesn't fit all....

Donna Jean

[Drea]

I tend to think questions like this are somewhat putting the cart before the horse. Still I know there are those with some amount of dysphoria who wish to have some hormone effects but not want to give up their male fucntioning, fear it, or wish to remain functional for their SO. So they explore the idea before doing anything.

On the subject of MTF being bothered by the loss in function. Since the loss or decrease in fuctnion is accompanied by an equivalant loss in desire, it generally isn't missed by most. One would also tend to think MTF wouldn't want the function anyway. My therapist did tell me that some are bothered by it however.

Everyone's body (and mind) reacts differently. Furthermore different individuals are on different mixes of hormones and blockers which is another huge variable. I known people who been on hormones medium to long term(5 to 10 years) who say they can still function, yet others who report after a few months not being able to function. Being able to function does not mean their functioning and desire hasn't been affected. Odds are that is has changed signficantly.

I suspect loss in function is probably more related to the loss in T than it is E level. Thus not taking a T blocker as part of HRT could make a huge difference compared to taking one when it comes to maintaining functioning. This would be something to ask your doctor.

One thing to be aware of. The mental effects, the drop in desire and reduction in function (if not complete loss of function) almost always will happen far faster than any feminizing.

[Drea]

This is definately something to discuss with your HRT-prescribing doctor. I know I may be a rare case, but in my case I was on an unusually high dose of estrodiol, spiro, and later on prometrium for 4 years, and though I gained a little more "control" over it, that little fink still stood at attention every time things got a little hot in the bedroom right up till surgery. It annoyed the crap out of me, I hated it. And it probably explains why Marci proclaimed me the "biggest bleeder of the week".

Now that you have had SRS Kelsie, you probably shouldn't complain as that ability may be working for you now.

As you may be experiencing post SRS, the doc leaves a bit of the erectile tissue in the clitoris area. I won't say it is an absolute, but stimulation and ability of that bit of tissue to get construct is part of process of reaching orgasm.

As I was putting my prior post together I was thinking, well if a post-op is able to do that in order to orgasm, why wouldn't someone who hasn't had SRS still have that degree of functioning.

Since MTF post-op generally have very low T (though some start taking T to help function), it suggests to me that mental processes are an important part of being able to function even in the abscence of T.

[Guest kelise]

Are we talking functional in a reproductive sense, or just in a sexual sense. I should have mentioned in my post before, less than a year into it, my sperm/semen production did dwindle away to nothing. Which I was quite pleased with. There were a few random surprises now and then, but mostly nothing.

[Guest Orva26]

Are we talking functional in a reproductive sense, or just in a sexual sense.

Guess I should have been more direct. I'm talking strictly in a sexual sense. I know that estrogen will make me sterile that's not in question. Thing I'm curious about is how sensitive it'll remain and if I'll still be able to have an erection/ get pleasure from my original genitals. It seems that varies somewhat based on what users have said. I'll read that Risk Of Men Taking Female Hormones page that was linked latter tonight to gain more perspective. Once I know all the risk/benefits I have a better idea if the route might be a good thing for me to do. And if I don't I'll at least have knowledge so that I would be able to confidently discuss the issue with a therapist.

Thanks for all the responses so far!

[Drea]

Orva,

I think you were compeltely clear in your intial post as you mentioend you were aware of the fertility issue and talked about the ability to get "hard". I adopted the term "function" for my own posts as it seemed less explicit though there wasn't an issue with the way you expressed it. I apologize for any confusion.

I do agree with Kelsie, if the question was referring about full function and whatnot being unaltered, hormones would certainly have an effect. Even in the sense you were talking, even though some can function doesn't mean that the functioning isn't signficantly altered.

Good luck with your information search.

[Guest KimberlyF]

Orva,

I think this is a hot button issue for a lot of MtF TSs because it hits close to home. It goes against something that is very personal for them and it's something they can't at all understand.

When I was in my 20's some of the people who made me feel the worst about myself were fellow TSs who had this tude that I wasn't legit and I wasn't good enough for them. They helped push me towards the self-medicating. They weren't half as bad as the lesbians but that's another thread all together Anyway I have read here about a girl who had the support of her family and friends and was doing well transitioning but killed herself because of the HBS people. Then last week when I saw Jenny Boylan do her speech she mentioned that she's been protested 5 times. 3 by religious nuts and twice by other transsexuals. What the fork is up with that???

The TG umbrella is supposed to cover everyone and that includes people I don't fully 'get'. So while the idea of having a functional penis while on HRT does nothing for me, if it's something that interests you I'm sure there has to be a way. I've talked to too many people not to know there are things going on with some of them. If you can't find your answers here, get a second opinion. There is nothing wrong with you for wanting this btw. At one point on this board I may have mentioned or perhaps to my therapist of maybe just doing the hormone thing for like 6 months and growing some boobs and then quitting. But it had nothing to do with keeping my equipment working. I have a woman would would let me use it all the time and I've have Bill Clinton sex one time in 6 years. That was more about me lying to myself about what I needed from transitioning.

So you can look into it somewhere else. There are other sites than here if you can't find your answers. I have zero hidden agenda. I told you I don't really get your thang and I don't work for Viagra so you can find whatever value you want in my post. I'm prob not going to post again on this topic in this thread.

My theory: Maybe just wanting to use it makes a big difference? The whole brain being the biggest sex organ deal. I get depressed when it comes to attention so that in itself helps to calm things down. And using it a lot could help like stretching the vocal chords? Don't really know. Again, I'd rather not

Kim

[Guest kelise]

Orva, whatever you do, just make sure your therapist and doctor agree and think it's a good idea, pleeease?