A Curious Question(S)

[Guest Orva26]

Kim,

I understand what you say about my question going against people's views. I really didn't mean to rock the boat with this but I'm getting the feeling that I might have and for that I apologize. I'm just getting information. I've already done a bit of learning elsewhere and really asked here because this was the place that I knew I could interact with individuals who actually did HRT. Once again, I'm sorry if I upset anybody.

The whole brain being the biggest sex organ deal. I get depressed when it comes to attention so that in itself helps to calm things down. And using it a lot could help like stretching the vocal chords? Don't really know. Again, I'd rather not :)Kim

That's actually one of the things that I've heard. Desire and usage can keep it going. To an extent the issue is about blood flow which, depending on the individual, might be able to compensate for less T.

Orva, whatever you do, just make sure your therapist and doctor agree and think it's a good idea, pleeease?

Don't worry I won't be acting without professional help. First step is to actually get some though. I won't be able to right away because of money issues and I still need to figure out exactly how to budget it and if insurance will actually cover anything. But that is a separate issue to figure out.

[Drea]

I understand what you say about my question going against people's views. I really didn't mean to rock the boat with this but I'm getting the feeling that I might have and for that I apologize

Orva, no apology needed. I see the same question you raise asked, or someone talking about wanting the same thing, every couple weeks. The desire in most cases seems to be linked to wanting breasts and reduction in body hair.

When I was in my 20's some of the people who made me feel the worst about myself were fellow TSs who had this tude that I wasn't legit and I wasn't good enough for them.

Kimberly, so true, some in the community can be very judgemental. I have encounterd that same attitude from time to time where I am treated as not legit, someone to be gotten rid of, and people arguing against what I may say regardless of the merit or the relitive experience I may have.

I think that sometimes those transitioning have a hard time seperating their own needs and emotions from the very different needs others may have.

I seen different theories and opinions expressed in literature and by professional providing treatment. Some say that hormones should only be adminsistered when it is certain the person is going to transition. Others say hormones can be diagnostic and are fairly free about administering to see how the patient reacts. In still other cases they have no problem giving hormones for long term use if it provides sufficient relief from the dysphoria even if the person doesn't plan to transition. Lastly I have read about eposodic hormone use being indicated for "transvestites". This last one was in fairly old literature hence the particular term.

I will note, for as often as I have heard someone ask the question about maintaining male function if they went on female hormones, I do not really know of any who have chosen to persue the idea further. I do meet people online fairly regularly who are transitioning male to female who say they want to keep their male parts and even admit they like them. I have known some personally as well. I even know a "Drag Queen" (her term, not mine) who had breast implants but continues to live as a guy.

It just goes to show how diverse the community is and how different everyone's needs are.

It seems to me that as long as one works with appropriate professionals, is aware of the risks, adheres to appropriate laws and standards, that finding what fufills ones personal needs would be a good thing even if it doesn't fit someone else's "textbook" definition of how things should be.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Drea
added last paragraph

[Guest NotClaire]

Putting in my 2 embarrassing cents...

I guess the mental component of sexual arousal has changed the most for me.. where pre-HRT it was more of "i want to sex you" and now it's "i want us to love"... dunno if that makes sense? Less emphasis on physical and more on like relational? I'll be the first to admit that it might all be placebo effect or something, but that's how it feels.

As for the physiological component of sexual arousal - everything still.. ahem.. "works" but it's much less frequent, slower, etc. :blush:

I've been on legit, supervised HRT for 10 months and I'm 21.

Putting in another 2 cents in the "real transgender" discussion..

According to dsm-iv-tr there are two kinds of transgender (GID) people. The labels for the two in related texts may be offensive (I think they are), but I agree with what they describe - some are men-minded folks who want to look like women and others are women-minded who feel trapped in a man's body. I personally understand and accept the two groups, but I think the tension arises due to the public's perception that everyone under the umbrella of "transgender" is the exact same. This leads to the "girls-trapped-in-boy-bodies" group resenting the "boys-who-want-to-be-girls" group and vice-versa to a lesser extent. BOTH are candidates for hormones and SRS in United States.

[Guest JaniceW]

... This leads to the "girls-trapped-in-boy-bodies" group resenting the "boys-who-want-to-be-girls" group and vice-versa to a lesser extent. ...

You raise a very interesting point here, I know it's one that has caused more than a little confusion for me. I find myself fitting in the "boys-who-want-to-be-girls" group but I find myself evaluating my self image by the other standard sometimes doubting that I am "legit". I spoke to my therapist about this and her response was, "You are legit!". So maybe I need to listen to her abit more intentively. Thanks for pointing out the issue, it has helped me to sort out one more of my many issues.

[Guest Orva26]

Orva, no apology needed. I see the same question you raise asked, or someone talking about wanting the same thing, every couple weeks. The desire in most cases seems to be linked to wanting breasts and reduction in body hair.

That's kind of wear I am at. Woman's bodies are just so much more aesthetically pleasing. They get nice curves and clothes to show case them, whereas males, well they get to bulk up and wear tight shirts and that is something I definitely have no interest in. Never really wanted to get big or work out. Now getting a soft and curvy body well that's a different story.

I seen different theories and opinions expressed in literature and by professional providing treatment. Some say that hormones should only be adminsistered when it is certain the person is going to transition. Others say hormones can be diagnostic and are fairly free about administering to see how the patient reacts. In still other cases they have no problem giving hormones for long term use if it provides sufficient relief from the dysphoria even if the person doesn't plan to transition. Lastly I have read about eposodic hormone use being indicated for "transvestites". This last one was in fairly old literature hence the particular term.

I think the bold is probably the outlook that would best fit me. I have a desire to obtain a womanly body but I'm not 100% sure about the other effects. The prospect of becoming sterile doesn't really bother me as I can always bank and I haven't really been planning on having kids too much to begin with. I guess my big hang up is fear of the unknown. Its pretty obvious what the hormones do physically and that's something I think I'd like but what happens mentally is pretty much a black box.

I will note, for as often as I have heard someone ask the question about maintaining male function if they went on female hormones, I do not really know of any who have chosen to persue the idea further. I do meet people online fairly regularly who are transitioning male to female who say they want to keep their male parts and even admit they like them. I have known some personally as well. I even know a "Drag Queen" (her term, not mine) who had breast implants but continues to live as a guy.

If I do transition I would definitely be in the bold area. But that could change, I'm guessing there have probably been people who started out on hormones and felt that way that down the line decided to go and have SRS. For me the limiting thing would be the 30% chance of it not turning out well. I'll admit that it is not nearly as grim as SRS for FTM but 30%? That's nearly 1/3! It is also kind of interesting that there hasn't really been anyone who has posed the question but still went on hormones.

I guess the mental component of sexual arousal has changed the most for me.. where pre-HRT it was more of "i want to sex you" and now it's "i want us to love"... dunno if that makes sense? Less emphasis on physical and more on like relational? I'll be the first to admit that it might all be placebo effect or something, but that's how it feels.

That actually makes perfect sense. As a youngster I feel into the group that romanticized sex but by the time I begun college I had become completely disillusioned with that view. I viewed sex completely as some primal need that was disconnected with love. But after actually being in a meaningful relationship I've settled on the thought that sex really is another way to physically express emotions for another person. Doesn't always have to be love in the strict romantic sense but that's pretty much how I feel about it. I've also made an observation about myself that I think is kind of a-typical for males. I cannot really be physically attracted to people who's personalities upset me and I absolutely refuse the pursue a relationship solely based on physicality. I actually also enjoy snuggling and other forms of non-sexual affection, why? BECAUSE THEY ARE AWESOME!

According to dsm-iv-tr there are two kinds of transgender (GID) people. The labels for the two in related texts may be offensive (I think they are), but I agree with what they describe - some are men-minded folks who want to look like women and others are women-minded who feel trapped in a man's body. I personally understand and accept the two groups, but I think the tension arises due to the public's perception that everyone under the umbrella of "transgender" is the exact same. This leads to the "girls-trapped-in-boy-bodies" group resenting the "boys-who-want-to-be-girls" group and vice-versa to a lesser extent. BOTH are candidates for hormones and SRS in United States.

This paragraph made my eyes water the first time I read it. I'd say I definitely fit into the "boys-who-want-to-be-girls" category. Reading stuff like this, especially the part about both groups being candidates for hormones in the USA, is a very um... validating thing for me. I was getting real stressed out and super confused when I first was learning about transgenderism and more specifically trying to figure out if I am TS because at first I was really only finding information about the "girls-trapped-in-boy-bodies" group, the group that I don't think really fits my feelings. I was getting down thinking that since I wasn't like that my desires were completely out of whack and that I'm just some crazy weirdo. But with more learning, talking with online friends who are transgendered, and joining this great community I've learned that there is nothing wrong with being a boy who wants to be a girl and my feelings are not any less legitimate in the least. The big question for me now is should I remain an outsider loitering right outside the gate to girl-land looking in, or should I redeem my ticket and go inside. That's what the therapy will help with, once I manage to get started with it.

[Guest Lacey Lynne]

May I chime in, please?

Well, I am age 55 and 2.5 months, have been on HRT for 1 year and 2 weeks. My diagnosis as transsexual was render by a gender counselor with nearly 30 years' experience as a gender counselor. She is also a Ph.D. psychologist and is nationally renowned as a gender counselor. My HRT has been administered by expert doctors. My HRT is pharmaceutical-grade estradiol (high-dose) and androgen blockage (relatively high-dose).

And my point is?

My point is that I'm still completely preop. Everything is fully and totally functional. However, there ARE changes. Everything takes much longer to function. Emissions are not nearly as copious or viscous. Moreoever, the whole matter is rather moot insofar as I have not had sex with ANYBODY in 10+ years.

My libido is way down but still alive and well, thank you very much.

Yes, I've got lucky genetics. Yes, I maintain a healthy diet. Yes, I work out regularly.

In the final analysis, it's an individual proposition.

Finally, my orientation is still such that my preference is for women. An idea significant other for me would be a passionately bisexual female who is way into a girl with something extra. Because I LOVE being connubial with a woman, I could happily remain nonop ... WITH THE RIGHT PARTNER ... as described above.

Don't misunderstand me: I DESTEST having "The Male Package" immensely!

Yeah, I know: Peculiar! Never said I wasn't! You're NOT alone on this, hon!

Lacey Lynne

[Guest Orva26]

Yay! This is another topic that has been breathed back to life tonight that has helped me out!

We do have a difference Lynne, in that I hold no resentment for what is down there. Well I guess that isn't completely true, I am mildly annoyed that my sexuality has been mainly autosexual and fantasy driven and feel that has been obstructing an underlying issue or that it has been how I have coped through all the stuff I needed (school, finding job, moving out, etc.) to do until I couldn't keep it down any longer. It is like the autosexuality has also obstructed my outward sexuality which I feel now is pansexual. I don't want to start rambling so I'll just leave it at; I don't want to really change my 'parts'.

My ideal body image is female but keeping that. And now I don't really have a problem with that. Sure sometimes it might make things ackward but any potiental partner that couldn't get past that was never worth my time to begin with. Its from the other side, i.e. a FTM perspective but the poem Whos body is this anyway? by C. Jacob Hale helped me out. The author of it does not plan to change through GRS because he feels that his privates are well, that, private and that whatever is down there has no bearing on his gender. It also gives light to an interesting unfairness in that it seems a lot of people think it is an appropiate question to just ask him if he plans for GRS or why he doesn't. It is understandable that he gets upset by it, I mean would you just go around asking non-trans, "Hey do you plan to modify you genitals?" Of course not, that would just be silly and equally offensive.

Also, my ex told me of her friend who is a non-op FTM for the same reasons as C. Jacob Hale. Actually I talked about transgenderism a whole bunch with her when she visited but that is what started it. I would like to meet this friend of hers eventually since we are similar now in that regard. I think that she might know that something is up but right now all I've told her for sure is that I am pansexual.

Hehehe, I kind of did ramble...

My point is that I'm still completely preop. Everything is fully and totally functional. However, there ARE changes. Everything takes much longer to function. Emissions are not nearly as copious or viscous.

Thanks for sharing. It seems common that functionality remains but only slowed. It also seems common in this topic that the girls who want to retain it in some way are able to and for the ones that don't it dies off rather quickly. A slowing of things would be very much welcomed by me. Things got reved up a little too fast and it was distracting from the intamancy, a constant nagging a supression that caused stress. If it slowed down and I could experiene the intamancy fully without having to worry about getting too enthusiastic that would be great.

I've also heard from a girl who started HRT young (not sure exact age but I think it was basically as young as her country would allow) that although she can no longer get construct things are still pleasurable. Seems like the only way I'd be left with completely null tissue down there is if that is what I mentally want. And since it isn't everything should be okay.

My libido is way down but still alive and well, thank you very much.

Actually mine is as well. Its kind of strange but since coming here and doing real deep thought, reflectance, going to a TS suport group and in general everything that has been happening to me over the last month has pretty much destroyed the sexual fantasy aspect of this. Any time it does come back now it is not at all about the process but rather how I would be interacting with a partner afterwards.

Now it is more completely up to me vs. before when it was a release/coping mechanism.

[Guest Lacey Lynne]

Orva:

Sorry about arriving late to this particular party, girl. I only now discovered it, however. From your previous posts and my replies to them, you already know that you and I are on the same page on many of these issues and to a similar degree.

You have a thorough grounding in the natural sciences and a most keen intellect, so you surely understand not only the possible ramifications of HRT to your body but likewise perceive the degree of the profundity of these ramifications. My point?

Realize that sterility will surely occur inasmuch as spermatoceles will cease their genesis within several months into your hormone replacement therapy regimen. However, you may or may not maintain functionality of your "guy package." It's an individual proposition determined by your genetics, your health and your circumstances.

As far as sterility, if you don't want to sire children, then loss of sterility is not even an issue. May functionality? It's a crap-shoot, honey.

At 1 year and 2 weeks now into my hormone replacement therapy regimen, my functionality is present but diminished ... greatly. Moreover, my "male package" is now just a tad greater than half its size heretofore. Whoa! Just 2 days ago, I saw the M.D. who oversees my HRT (a fully-transitioned transwoman herself) and actually became aware of this fact. Egads!

It's a shocker, hon, even though we KNOW this is going to happen and WANT it to happen. Inasmuch as I may likely remain nonop, chances are I'll loose any and all sexual function. Bummer. Oh, well ... sigh.

This is just my experience. As the saying goes: Your mileage may vary. If you're wanting SRS/GRS, then this is not an issue. If you don't, and I'm undecided about it myself, then there are profound points to ponder as you proceed apace to the point of no return on hormone replacement therapy.

Just tellin' the truth, girl. Not trying to bum you out.

Much Peace & Good Luck!

Lacey

[Guest Orva26]

As far as sterility, if you don't want to sire children, then loss of sterility is not even an issue. May functionality? It's a crap-shoot, honey.

I have never been too enthused about children. Usually I kind of just thought I'd leave it up to my partner for the most part. I think I'll probably save some stuff just in case though. If I do go with hormones I'd probably be more likely to adopt anyway.

I'm still on the fence about the whole function thing. Out of the last 4 days I've lived 3 of them tucked. Now adays I have little desire to self gratify as that isn't constructive. I've heard that in part retaining that is a matter of use/disuse. I don't know how I'll feel about it if I do go on HRT... I think it is something difficult to gauge. There are plenty of ways to be sexual that do not involve that organ and from what I hear HRT should enhance enjoyment of those. I'm still kind of on the fence about this.

How are you holding up though? Is the realization more of an "Aw, shucks!" thing or are you upset deeply by it? If you don't wanna answer that's fine.

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

I'm 9 months on HRT now. I almost HAVE TO self-gratify at least once a day, and often do it one or two more times for fun. To some, this may seem high, but it's way down from before HRT. Things take a little longer, but it's usually just as satisfying as ever. But I'm not left with a mess when I'm done, which is really nice. Just a little moisture sometimes.

But my testosterone levels were already really low when I started HRT, so something else fuels it. I think, in my case at least, the brain is the most important sex organ. I've never had sex with anyone (never even been on a date!), and I don't like most of the erotic material out there, so everything was always fantasy-based, brain-driven.

Interestingly enough, though... I was never interested in having a partner in any of my fantasies. I used to fantasize about women, but not about having sex with them. Was NEVER interested in men before. But now I'm vaguely interested in guys, which has been a nice change of pace.

Everyone's different. There are no guarantees with HRT. But things are always possible.