Musings On Gender Identity...

[Guest Tiaria]

(Note: These musings are made by a very confused soul; tread lightly...)

My friends,

I have been doing a great deal of thinking, lately. (Much of it against my will, as it happens when want to sleep...) For the vast-est (neologism) time of my life, I have simply looked at myself (my inner self, that is) as 'me'. Simple, plain, and understandable... I just connected the words 'boy' and 'girl' strictly with the outside...

Until just two months ago, there was not a hair on my head thinking it even possible, that I would have to throw that (very basic) view overboard... I was used to seeing the 'M' on my ID, my driving license, everything... and I simply drew the line between that letter and what my body basically is... I never even considered 'it' important. ('It' being the physical gender...).

When I became (to use the fancy word...) dysphoric, I (my mind) was basically sent careening down a very slippery slope... which has culminated in many sleepless nights, when I just can't seem to stop thinking. Imagine driving down a steep slope, and realising your brakes have failed... My mind just keeps going faster and faster, while I want it to slow down (not stopping completely, or I'd be brain dead...). Going to bed at 2200, but staying awake 'till 0400 is no exception...

In my 22 years, I never, ever stopped to consider 'my inner side'... I was just 'me'. What makes it even more confusing is the fact that mental gender is not binary; it's not one or the other...

I think that, mentally speaking, you, me and everyone else are not 100 percent male or female... (ok, maybe 1 percent...) After all, we all have character traits, and each trait may be considered 'masculine', or 'feminine'; and all of that in degrees varying from 'a little' to 'extremely'...

I think that, mentally, the sum of our traits forms the basis on how we view our inner selves. For example: you may have 'a man who wouldn't hurt a fly' on the one hand, and 'a very criticising and aggressive woman' on the other hand... They would still be a man or a woman, respectively...

Most people (99,9%) have a body which reasonably adheres to that 'system'... as it would match the overall picture... as one or two standout traits don't make a trend.

Now that's where it hurts, for me... I never took the time to consider my traits... And now, when I think it's good to do things nice and slow; I can't seem to slow down...

I know I couldn't hurt a fly... (I can hurt a mosquito, darn blood suckers always sting me in the face...)

I have always been very thoughtful in choosing the right words. I don't want to hurt or insult anyone... (...had about a dozen revisions, before I was satisfied with the contents, here)

I abhor violence, beating myself up if I can't control myself... (Alright, there was that bully I told you about, like a gazillion times, already...)

And frankly, I always felt more emphatically connected with the girls in class, than I did with the boys... But I don't think that went both ways...

This is just my way of piecing together the biggest jigsaw puzzle I have ever seen: mine...

Please, feel free to provide comments, ideas, insights, or alternative viewpoints.

Love,

Tiaria

Ps.: No need to suggest looking for a therapist, I have an appointment next friday, with someone from a transgender support group... (Next best thing... They may be able to direct me to a real therapist. Or they are the therapists, and I just don't realise, yet.)

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I never, ever stopped to consider 'my inner side'... I was just 'me'.

Perfect! THAT IS THE ENDGAME. Now its the work of being HAPPY with what you are.

Lizzy

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

Just realize how many years that so many of us wasted trying to be a round peg in a square hole...

Forcing the fit that just wasn't going to happen...

Either a horrible fit or breaking altogether....

Then self acceptrance...the puzzle becomes complete...there is a place for everything...it all now fits...

Beautiful!~'

Huggs

Donna Jean

[Guest Tiaria]

I never, ever stopped to consider 'my inner side'... I was just 'me'.

Perfect! THAT IS THE ENDGAME. Now its the work of being HAPPY with what you are.

Lizzy

It answers 'who' I am...

It still leaves the hard question for me: 'What am I?'

[Guest Lily B]

I can totally relate to what you're saying.

But then there's the added problem of what make one trait masculine and one feminine, it's like people just arbitrarily decided which set a trait belonged to without any rhyme or reason. And that makes it even more difficult because then any information you get from your traits may or may not be useful, accurate information, and you have no way to decided whether it is except for cop outs like: "well obviously it is".

On the other hand, you might consider whether your traits feel female to you, which has nothing to do with whether or not they are but at least you can feel good about yourself.

[Guest Tiaria]

.

Just realize how many years that so many of us wasted trying to be a round peg in a square hole...

Forcing the fit that just wasn't going to happen...

Either a horrible fit or breaking altogether....

Then self acceptrance...the puzzle becomes complete...there is a place for everything...it all now fits...

Beautiful!~'

Huggs

Donna Jean

Self acceptance would be nice, but I still don't know my 'self' well enough. Deep down there is a lot of feeling, pulling me one way; then there's that little voice in the back of my head, telling me otherwise... In other words: 'Heart or head?'.

Tiaria

[Guest Tiaria]

I can totally relate to what you're saying.

But then there's the added problem of what make one trait masculine and one feminine, it's like people just arbitrarily decided which set a trait belonged to without any rhyme or reason. And that makes it even more difficult because then any information you get from your traits may or may not be useful, accurate information, and you have no way to decided whether it is except for cop outs like: "well obviously it is".

On the other hand, you might consider whether your traits feel female to you, which has nothing to do with whether or not they are but at least you can feel good about yourself.

True, it would seem that we (society, I mean) simply looked at what cisgender males had as common traits, and what cisgender women had as common traits, and then started labeling away...

Tiaria

[Guest Lily B]

True, it would seem that we (society, I mean) simply looked at what cisgender males had as common traits, and what cisgender women had as common traits, and then started labeling away...

Tiaria

I don't even think it was that carefully done, if you consider the kinds of stereotypes some people have about women, for example.

[Guest Tiaria]

I don't even think it was that carefully done, if you consider the kinds of stereotypes some people have about women, for example.

I know... plenty of misconceptions, out there... Needless to say, man (in general) has always had that urge to categorise anything and everything... I know, 'cause I do, right now: trying to get both my head and my heart sorted...

[Guest sleeping chrysalid]

(Note: These musings are made by a very confused soul; tread lightly...)

My friends,

I have been doing a great deal of thinking, lately. (Much of it against my will, as it happens when want to sleep...) For the vast-est (neologism) time of my life, I have simply looked at myself (my inner self, that is) as 'me'. Simple, plain, and understandable... I just connected the words 'boy' and 'girl' strictly with the outside...

Until just two months ago, there was not a hair on my head thinking it even possible, that I would have to throw that (very basic) view overboard... I was used to seeing the 'M' on my ID, my driving license, everything... and I simply drew the line between that letter and what my body basically is... I never even considered 'it' important. ('It' being the physical gender...).

When I became (to use the fancy word...) dysphoric, I (my mind) was basically sent careening down a very slippery slope... which has culminated in many sleepless nights, when I just can't seem to stop thinking. Imagine driving down a steep slope, and realising your brakes have failed... My mind just keeps going faster and faster, while I want it to slow down (not stopping completely, or I'd be brain dead...). Going to bed at 2200, but staying awake 'till 0400 is no exception...

In my 22 years, I never, ever stopped to consider 'my inner side'... I was just 'me'. What makes it even more confusing is the fact that mental gender is not binary; it's not one or the other...

I think that, mentally speaking, you, me and everyone else are not 100 percent male or female... (ok, maybe 1 percent...) After all, we all have character traits, and each trait may be considered 'masculine', or 'feminine'; and all of that in degrees varying from 'a little' to 'extremely'...

I think that, mentally, the sum of our traits forms the basis on how we view our inner selves. For example: you may have 'a man who wouldn't hurt a fly' on the one hand, and 'a very criticising and aggressive woman' on the other hand... They would still be a man or a woman, respectively...

Most people (99,9%) have a body which reasonably adheres to that 'system'... as it would match the overall picture... as one or two standout traits don't make a trend.

Now that's where it hurts, for me... I never took the time to consider my traits... And now, when I think it's good to do things nice and slow; I can't seem to slow down...

I know I couldn't hurt a fly... (I can hurt a mosquito, darn blood suckers always sting me in the face...)

I have always been very thoughtful in choosing the right words. I don't want to hurt or insult anyone... (...had about a dozen revisions, before I was satisfied with the contents, here)

I abhor violence, beating myself up if I can't control myself... (Alright, there was that bully I told you about, like a gazillion times, already...)

And frankly, I always felt more emphatically connected with the girls in class, than I did with the boys... But I don't think that went both ways...

This is just my way of piecing together the biggest jigsaw puzzle I have ever seen: mine...

Please, feel free to provide comments, ideas, insights, or alternative viewpoints.

Love,

Tiaria

Ps.: No need to suggest looking for a therapist, I have an appointment next friday, with someone from a transgender support group... (Next best thing... They may be able to direct me to a real therapist. Or they are the therapists, and I just don't realise, yet.)

This is all too familiar for me. I can not stop thinking about who and what I am. Often people notice that I am deep in thought and they ask me what's wrong but I just tell them "it's nothing". Sometimes I can not even pay attention to things that are designed to attract attention like movies and television because I am too busy thinking about the character traits that define me and what gender I identify with. I cannot determine what I want until I determine what I am and until I determine what my destination is I cannot begin a journey to get there. I think I know what I want but what happens if I am wrong and I am left with the buyer's remorse. I need to be cautious because until I truly know myself I cannot be completely certain about what I want even though my wants and desires seem so strong and real. There is no such thing as "beyond a reasonable doubt" and I too, am plagued by questions that have become my obsessions.

[JJ]

For months after realizing I was trans it was like seeing every preference, every action, through a filter of masculine vs feminine. Was I doing something because I liked it or because I was socialized to it and made the best choice I could? What did I really like or even really want? It was miserable but though it decreased I couldn't stop it. In my inner being I know I'm male. Just know. Even when I didn't know I was trans, never heard of FtMs - or blocked the knowledge-I said all my life I had a man's mind in a woman's body.

But in spite of that there was all that questioning. I was sick of it -just want to be me as I am -but still it continued.

Till I realized I don't even know how it actually feels to be a woman. Never truly identify with women in movies or books or games. I experience those things as the hero never the heroine. I am a man because I identify with men. Whatever else I like or don't like, do or don't do is incidental. Gender roles as social constructs are so varied and changeable from time to time and place to place they can't really be used to identify your gender. It's something more basic. Gender identity and gender roles seem to get confused with each other but they are not the same at all. One is socially defined and the other is an inherent part of the individual. At least in part predetermined during brain development prior to birth.

(Since it has been determined that our brains match our gender identity in spite of the fact that some degree of brain gender development occurs after birth I believe someday almost every one of us will be found to be intersexed to some degree in ways not yet identified.)

So don't be concerned with what you do or don't do, or prefer but with how you feel-who you identify with. And it can be any mix or binary. Then just enjoy whatever you like - masculine, feminine, both or neither.

John

[Guest Tiaria]

This is all too familiar for me. I can not stop thinking about who and what I am. Often people notice that I am deep in thought and they ask me what's wrong but I just tell them "it's nothing". Sometimes I can not even pay attention to things that are designed to attract attention like movies and television because I am too busy thinking about the character traits that define me and what gender I identify with. I cannot determine what I want until I determine what I am and until I determine what my destination is I cannot begin a journey to get there. I think I know what I want but what happens if I am wrong and I am left with the buyer's remorse. I need to be cautious because until I truly know myself I cannot be completely certain about what I want even though my wants and desires seem so strong and real. There is no such thing as "beyond a reasonable doubt" and I too, am plagued by questions that have become my obsessions.

(Sigh)

So you, too, are stuck on the mental merry-go-round...

Seems you and I both stopped being 'merry' some time ago...

I also got those 'what if...'-questions on a rampage...

"What if it's not true, what if I have some mental illness, in stead? What if it would be the biggest mistake of my life?..."

Am there, still doing that...

For months after realizing I was trans it was like seeing every preference, every action, through a filter of masculine vs feminine. Was I doing something because I liked it or because I was socialized to it and made the best choice I could? What did I really like or even really want? It was miserable but though it decreased I couldn't stop it. In my inner being I know I'm male. Just know. Even when I didn't know I was trans, never heard of FtMs - or blocked the knowledge-I said all my life I had a man's mind in a woman's body.

But in spite of that there was all that questioning. I was sick of it -just want to be me as I am -but still it continued.

Till I realized I don't even know how it actually feels to be a woman. Never truly identify with women in movies or books or games. I experience those things as the hero never the heroine. I am a man because I identify with men. Whatever else I like or don't like, do or don't do is incidental. Gender roles as social constructs are so varied and changeable from time to time and place to place they can't really be used to identify your gender. It's something more basic. Gender identity and gender roles seem to get confused with each other but they are not the same at all. One is socially defined and the other is an inherent part of the individual. At least in part predetermined during brain development prior to birth.

(Since it has been determined that our brains match our gender identity in spite of the fact that some degree of brain gender development occurs after birth I believe someday almost every one of us will be found to be intersexed to some degree in ways not yet identified.)

So don't be concerned with what you do or don't do, or prefer but with how you feel-who you identify with. And it can be any mix or binary. Then just enjoy whatever you like - masculine, feminine, both or neither.

John

Now, that you mention it... I can't recall any time, ever, having felt 'like a man'... And if I forced it, I didn't feel very good, about it.

Now, I may be doing 'a man's job', but I don't feel any more 'man', than I did, before...

[Drea]

Ps.: No need to suggest looking for a therapist, I have an appointment next friday, with someone from a transgender support group... (Next best thing... They may be able to direct me to a real therapist. Or they are the therapists, and I just don't realise, yet.)

Yes I would generally recommend a therapist at this point to help with that self exploration. I wouldn't exactly say having a meeting with someone trans is the next best thing to a therapist, but if it gets you pointed towards one, its a positive step.

What I would like to add, or point out, is that this being a trans support site, virtually all the support, suggestions, advice or what have you will be from the perspective of those who are trans. That it will always have that certain bias even if not conciously expressed. Expressed feelings of trans will be validated.

If nothing else, there are many talking of their positive experiences after having decided to accept being trans or to transition. One would have to be more than human to not have all this influence their perceptions. To not have the validation of their trans feelings further influence them. Everyone wants to be accepted and acceptance will draw one into the community.

One of the biggest challenges in therapy is being able to sort out ones feelings and get past those outside influences. In some ways, it can be easier to sort out your feelings when one isolates themselves from such outside influences.

I feel fortunate that I did get into therapy fairly early after getting involved with the community. It greatly helped me in my own inner search. It was difficult enough due to insecurities and uncertainty that I could be honest as I could hardly see more than one option.

Of course there are those who have researched everything about this they can find and go to a therapist self diagnosed with absolute certainty. It seems to work for them and they do tend to be the most vocal ones in the community in my opinon.

Personally I find this psych stuff so inexact that I would always have had lingering doubts if I had loaded myself up with outside information. I guess it goes to show different personality types. Becomming more active in the community after I was in therapy, after I had sorted things out and knew a likely direction and then researching it all while keeping an open mind seemed to work well in my case.

I am not saying you should isolate yourself totally. Instead I mean that getting in to a therapist sooner rather than later would be advantageous and then maybe be cautious of how much contact or time is spent involved with the community till your sure. Of course this is a personal decision.

[Guest Orva26]

I was wondering what had happened to you, Tiaria.

In my 22 years, I never, ever stopped to consider 'my inner side'... I was just 'me'. What makes it even more confusing is the fact that mental gender is not binary; it's not one or the other...

Alright this is just starting to get creepy... make the minor adjustment of changing 22 to 23 and that sentence fits me too. Up until a few months ago I had never really questioned myself either. Never really thought of the future or voiced ideas like, who do I want to be in ten years? I thought of myself as 'me' but never really defined what comprised myself. I still haven't really done that fully but last night I can to a kind of realization.

I decided that it was time to study the world of androgyny because in terms of gender identity I find the absolute ones do not apply to me. While there are certainly people for who they would I find the notion that a person is 100% female or 100% male utterly silly. I began thinking if the most appropriate thing for me to do would be to outwardly express androgyny. Quickly my mind set me up as a feminine male and equally quickly it realized that all the ways I was thinking about displaying androgyny basically involved displaying femininity instead. And the more I thought about it the more apparent it became that socially presenting as a feminine male would only really be a gateway towards seeking what I originally came here believing I wanted, a feminized body, not clothing my actual visage.

I think I've sort of separated out and drawn a difference between my personality, gender, and actual physical being. I know that I am 'me' in terms of personality and gender and that will stay the same but I also know that I want to change my body to be female or at least feminine to better reflect me. I will never be a girly-girl because that is not who I am but that doesn't mean I should not pursue the body that I want. I'll probably end up appearing as kind of a 'tom-boy' to other people but I'm cool with that.

Just thought I'd share and give you some food for thought considering how similar our circumstances seem to be. I hope your meeting with the trans-support member goes well and that they're able to recommend you to a proper therapist.

-Orva

[Guest Tiaria]

What I would like to add, or point out, is that this being a trans support site, virtually all the support, suggestions, advice or what have you will be from the perspective of those who are trans. That it will always have that certain bias even if not conciously expressed. Expressed feelings of trans will be validated.

True, but this just seems to be how my head works... A lot of things only seem to stick, if someone tells me something to my face... Don't get me wrong, you as a community, have been a great help, thus far; and I couldn't have wished for better.

If nothing else, there are many talking of their positive experiences after having decided to accept being trans or to transition. One would have to be more than human to not have all this influence their perceptions. To not have the validation of their trans feelings further influence them. Everyone wants to be accepted and acceptance will draw one into the community.

One of the biggest challenges in therapy is being able to sort out ones feelings and get past those outside influences. In some ways, it can be easier to sort out your feelings when one isolates themselves from such outside influences.

I tried getting it all straight, on my own, but that didn't work out so well. Which, is the entire reason I stumbled in here, about 6 weeks, ago.

I feel fortunate that I did get into therapy fairly early after getting involved with the community. It greatly helped me in my own inner search. It was difficult enough due to insecurities and uncertainty that I could be honest as I could hardly see more than one option.

Of course there are those who have researched everything about this they can find and go to a therapist self diagnosed with absolute certainty. It seems to work for them and they do tend to be the most vocal ones in the community in my opinon.

I'm sure they do... It's just I have made plenty of wrong self diagnoses, so I'm not looking forward to make one, again.

Personally I find this psych stuff so inexact that I would always have had lingering doubts if I had loaded myself up with outside information. I guess it goes to show different personality types. Becomming more active in the community after I was in therapy, after I had sorted things out and knew a likely direction and then researching it all while keeping an open mind seemed to work well in my case.

I am not saying you should isolate yourself totally. Instead I mean that getting in to a therapist sooner rather than later would be advantageous and then maybe be cautious of how much contact or time is spent involved with the community till your sure. Of course this is a personal decision.

Well, I'm hardly trying to isolate myself; my social skills have grown extremely fast, in the last three months, or so. My father noticed it, I noticed it...

Seems I've just about gotten rid of my inferiority complex... (Maybe, this would be related...)

Love,

Tiaria

[Guest Tiaria]

I was wondering what had happened to you, Tiaria.

I'm sorry, I must have dropped off the radar. Missed me?

I decided that it was time to study the world of androgyny because in terms of gender identity I find the absolute ones do not apply to me. While there are certainly people for who they would I find the notion that a person is 100% female or 100% male utterly silly. I began thinking if the most appropriate thing for me to do would be to outwardly express androgyny. Quickly my mind set me up as a feminine male and equally quickly it realized that all the ways I was thinking about displaying androgyny basically involved displaying femininity instead. And the more I thought about it the more apparent it became that socially presenting as a feminine male would only really be a gateway towards seeking what I originally came here believing I wanted, a feminized body, not clothing my actual visage.

A paradox unlike any other... Androgyny involving masculinity and/or femininity (depending on perspective, of course.)

No wonder, I'm apprehensive about opening this Pandora's Box of mine...

Just thought I'd share and give you some food for thought considering how similar our circumstances seem to be. I hope your meeting with the trans-support member goes well and that they're able to recommend you to a proper therapist.

Well, this 'food' has been easily digestible, thus far. I actually had a good night's sleep, last night. Thanks, anyways...

Hugs

Tiaria

[Guest Orva26]

Yup, I did miss you. Around the same time Mr. Mrs.Smith became less active and I was wondering what happened to you two. We've had some pretty good discussion.

Though as you said mental androgyny or identify as a blend of masculine and feminine but wanting a female body is sort of a Pandora's box. But now I'm becoming curious as to if my mental state is also sort of a gateway as I pictured presenting as a feminine male to be. I really do want the body and have a lot more conviction in that but that might be because I can visualize a female body, I can't visualize the mental state of being female or being feminine. Who knows, maybe if I get on hormones I'll become super girlie instead of the tom-boyish way I think I'll become.

Anyway, I'm glad ya finally got some sort of restful sleep. Hope that keeps up.

[Guest Tiaria]

Yup, I did miss you. Around the same time Mr. Mrs.Smith became less active and I was wondering what happened to you two. We've had some pretty good discussion.

That we definitely did... and you and I still do...

It's just that I spent most of my mental 'idle time', since then, puzzling on this very topic...

Though as you said mental androgyny or identify as a blend of masculine and feminine but wanting a female body is sort of a Pandora's box. But now I'm becoming curious as to if my mental state is also sort of a gateway as I pictured presenting as a feminine male to be. I really do want the body and have a lot more conviction in that but that might be because I can visualize a female body, I can't visualize the mental state of being female or being feminine. Who knows, maybe if I get on hormones I'll become super girlie instead of the tom-boyish way I think I'll become.

yes, who knows...

'Me' has always been 'Me'. And you're right about the mental state thingy... I can't say I specifically feel 'male' or 'female', as I don't have any criteria to determine such a thing... (I wish Lily B had been a little more specific...) I just feel 'like me'...

But, deep down inside of me, there is this 'pull', a 'yearning', a 'longing' to have a female body... I know this feeling is different from any material obsession, like wanting a new TV, or a new PC, or something like that... this is different, somehow...

It's more like...awaiting, or anticipating, the return of someone you love, and who's been away for a very long time...

What I am, personally, afraid of, is this just being a byproduct of something like OCD... The very thought of getting branded with a diagnosis like OCD almost makes me run up a wall...

Anyway, I'm glad ya finally got some sort of restful sleep. Hope that keeps up.

Hope it will, expect it won't... Just lying there, for hours on end, is infuriating... And no! I'm not going to take sleeping pills, they mess up my reflexes... (Perhaps it's time for that old home remedy: a cup of hot milk...)

Love,

Tiaria

[Guest sleeping chrysalid]

One of the biggest challenges in therapy is being able to sort out ones feelings and get past those outside influences. In some ways, it can be easier to sort out your feelings when one isolates themselves from such outside influences.

I feel fortunate that I did get into therapy fairly early after getting involved with the community. It greatly helped me in my own inner search. It was difficult enough due to insecurities and uncertainty that I could be honest as I could hardly see more than one option.

Of course there are those who have researched everything about this they can find and go to a therapist self diagnosed with absolute certainty. It seems to work for them and they do tend to be the most vocal ones in the community in my opinon.

I have become too isolated by my constant self reflection. My parents have noticed how distant I am and that I am constantly lost in my own little world as I am analyzing myself and they worry about me. I can't imagine all the crazy worries that are going through there heads; maybe they think I'm involved in criminal activity, maybe they think I'm on drugs or maybe they think I'm being bullied while I'm on the computer. I don't want them to worry but I can't bring myself to tell them. I have too much time to think and it's killing me.

I may not be able to get into therapy for years until I tell my parents the truth and while I believe they have some suspicions and a small degree of awareness, I am not sure whether or not they have pieced everything together. I may spend years in purgatory before I can see a therapist while I'm on my own if I cannot get over my self-imposed boundaries and come out to my parents. Therapy would definitely help me sort out my confusion and it would relieve my anxiety but I am not sure if it is worth the risk.

I have done a lot of research because it is the only way to pass the time and feed my obsessions while years go by as the hour hand moves from the four to the five. Research doesn't help me to create a self-diagnosis as it may for others and the only benefit it provides is some degree of comfort. It does not comfort me entirely and I am still anxious but for some reason it makes things a little easier. Research makes things worse in some ways because it exposes me to conflicting sources and mixed messeges. I cannot come up with an accurate self-diagnosis and such an attempt may be dangerous. The closest I can come to diagnosing myself is to say that I am definitely not a man and I am either androgynous or feminine and perhaps somehwere in between. I do believe that the only real way to know is to figure it out through self discovery with the help of a gender therapist but at times I have had psychological needs for reassurance. In self doubt I have taken the COGIATI but I do not take the results as solid evidence for diagnosis. The test puts me in category four: probable transsexual but I always have moments of self doubt and there is really no such thing as "beyond a reasonable doubt". There are always straws to grasp and it is never impossible to rationalize. I need therapy but I am a dependent and I am too afraid of what my parents might think if I tell them who I really am. My own parents don't even know me.

[Guest Orva26]

'Me' has always been 'Me'. And you're right about the mental state thingy... I can't say I specifically feel 'male' or 'female', as I don't have any criteria to determine such a thing... (I wish Lily B had been a little more specific...) I just feel 'like me'...

But, deep down inside of me, there is this 'pull', a 'yearning', a 'longing' to have a female body... I know this feeling is different from any material obsession, like wanting a new TV, or a new PC, or something like that... this is different, somehow...

It's more like...awaiting, or anticipating, the return of someone you love, and who's been away for a very long time...

How eloquent! I think that's a good description of the longing. I used to be able to self-gratify and that would make it go away but now it is more of a constant thing and the need to self-gratify has diminished to what probably is healthy levels. But as you said it isn't like a material obsession, its not like cross-dressing and fantasy will satisfy it completely like watching a TV show or two would the desire to watch television, rather I'm finding that cross-dressing the few times I do it and fantasizing validate the longing make it feel, I don't know, appropriate.

What I am, personally, afraid of, is this just being a byproduct of something like OCD... The very thought of getting branded with a diagnosis like OCD almost makes me run up a wall...

Yup, that is a big fear of mine too. I already know what the outcome will be if that is the cases and it won't be pretty... involves crying, booze, and then hung-over crying. But, I really doubt it is the product of something else. At least I can't rationalize how it could be considering the intense 5 year history of it, its early origins in puberty, and some other hints from even before then. Things make too much sense for it to be some kind of twisted compulsion but yet that fear remains.

sleeping chrysalid, I get what your saying about research giving you some comfort. I'm finding the same thing true of myself. I'm doing a whole lot of research and it is proving quite useful to improving my mental state. Its a bummer about your situation and therapy though you might be able to convince your parents to let you go to a therapist and then get them on your side so that you could get to see a GT.

[Guest Lily B]

Me' has always been 'Me'. And you're right about the mental state thingy... I can't say I specifically feel 'male' or 'female', as I don't have any criteria to determine such a thing... (I wish Lily B had been a little more specific...) I just feel 'like me'...

Oh sorry. My position is that there is no such criteria from a logical and objective point of view.

I made a post about that in "What Am I? I'm not sure" when i was trying to figure it out, it's still on the front page if you wanna go look at it. If you can find a mistake in it please be awesome and post about it =D

But, I know what you mean about the 'longing', though. I feel it too.

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful I don't really know what the truth behind this is, or what to do about it yet.

[Guest Sally G.]

I have enjoyed reading the discussion this thread has generated and would like to contribute my 2c for what its worth.

The yearning or longing I had for a female body at 22 (and at 7 and 12) remains at 48. I am neither female nor male but both male and female. Our culture/s (essentially displaced western european cultures) have an implicit assumption that gender is binary. As someone who is trans (and has been trans since childhood) I struggle to fit into that gender binary. Do I take on the culturally prescribed gender role of a male (that is congruent with my body of birth) or do I take on the culturally prescribed gender role of a female (that is congruent with my psychological identity)? If I give myself the option of selecting a gender role from the binary I would choose to be female. But I am neither female nor male, I am something else but there is no culturally prescribed gender role for "something else" in my culture. (In some other cultures there are gender roles outside the gender binary).

To be 'me' as an authentic identity (trans- or mixed-gendered as opposed to male-gendered or female-gendered) I would be challenging the cultural norms of my society as I would be presenting a gender identity outside of the cultural norms - this would be a daunting task even with support from others. If I fit 'me' into a culturally prescribed gender role is this really 'me' or simply the easiest way out (least stressful)?

The conumdrum I face is that I am both an individual and a member of a culture, yet there is no place for my individual identity ('me' as someone who is of mixed gender) in my culture. I can have my identity but risk being excluded from my culture (or large parts of it, e.g marriage) or I can be more fully a member of my culture but in a gender role that is a 'best fit' rather than authentically 'me'.

What am I to do? - The dilemma of being trans in a western culture, do I wallow in misery in a male-gender role or do I take on/challenge the gender binary 'prison' and try and forge a third-gender identity, or do I transition to a female gender role that at least will likely bring peace to my psyche?

[Guest Orva26]

I have enjoyed reading the discussion this thread has generated and would like to contribute my 2c for what its worth.

Yay! And now you're contributing to it!

The conumdrum I face is that I am both an individual and a member of a culture, yet there is no place for my individual identity ('me' as someone who is of mixed gender) in my culture. I can have my identity but risk being excluded from my culture (or large parts of it, e.g marriage) or I can be more fully a member of my culture but in a gender role that is a 'best fit' rather than authentically 'me'.

What am I to do? - The dilemma of being trans in a western culture, do I wallow in misery in a male-gender role or do I take on/challenge the gender binary 'prison' and try and forge a third-gender identity, or do I transition to a female gender role that at least will likely bring peace to my psyche?

This is the part that jumped at me the most. The first paragraph voices a very important concern one that will probably be waying on my mind from now on. It is a very good concern none the less.

The second paragraph also brings up good points. Though I find it interesting that you construct transitioning to female as a sort of compromise between individual want and society's expectations. The way I look at the situation is that transitioning has to do with mainly the body. Yes there will be metal effects from hormones as well but they are not going to rewrite the brain and personality, only enrich it perhaps. My thought is that since when I considered androgyny as an option it was really only an excuse to dope femininity into my existence if I transition I will get to be more 'me' with a body that I want instead of one I just have kind of accepted. But if you really are viewing the process as a big compromise I think you should be cautious of it.

[Guest Sally G.]

Hi Ovra,

You raise an interesting point. The compromise is around the role I have in society not around the body I want.

I want (and have always wanted) a feminine body. My partner and I are working through the issues around what happens to 'us' as I have recently come out to her. If we stay together the minimum change that I would be comfortable with would be HRT (estrogen only) and removing my body hair. For this I would hopefully get some breast development, softer skin and a more feminine emotional depth. In public I would present in a male gender role, while in private I would have a transgender presentation (mixed sex characterisitcs)

If we separate I would fully transition to a female body with surgeries as appropriate. I would have female body presentation in public and private but be publically recognised as transgender. I want to transition on-the-job and my job requires a certain amount of public speaking so I would always be identified as transgender through my employment but hopefully as female in my private life post-transition.

How do I get what I want (a more feminine body at least if not a fully female body), satisfy my partner's needs and fit into the culturally prescribed gender-binary?

Aroha

Sally

[Guest Tiaria]

Whoa! This thread has grown quickly

Oh sorry. My position is that there is no such criteria from a logical and objective point of view.

I made a post about that in "What Am I? I'm not sure" when i was trying to figure it out, it's still on the front page if you wanna go look at it. If you can find a mistake in it please be awesome and post about it =D

I just read it... And there is nothing I could add...

That OP you wrote was like reading from a book from a university's library. (And I know, 'cause my home town has a university...)

(Are you Vulcan, or something? I mean, 'your logic is impeccable...' )

Yup, that is a big fear of mine too. I already know what the outcome will be if that is the cases and it won't be pretty... involves crying, booze, and then hung-over crying. But, I really doubt it is the product of something else. At least I can't rationalize how it could be considering the intense 5 year history of it, its early origins in puberty, and some other hints from even before then. Things make too much sense for it to be some kind of twisted compulsion but yet that fear remains.

Orva, you are so right on the money... I don't have any rationale, either...

Thoughts and feelings I've had since early childhood... At first I was simply too confused to even utter it, and later I just dismissed it...

On some level it all fits together, and yet that little voice in the back of my head keeps nagging...

Grrr. I hate jigsaw puzzles...