So What Exactly Is The Difference?

[Guest KimberlyF]

I've been on here for almost 5 months now, and yes I have found some amazingly supportive people.

At the same time, there seems to be a certain closed-mindedness. People are hypercritical of the Religious Right because of their intolerance and closed-mindedness, but there seems to be one acceptable way to transition here by lots of people that I've always found confusing.

There are MANY posts telling people about the sacredness of the Standards of Care by some and how they must be followed. And these same people are not willing to accept that some people may not want to live full time or have SRS. That just won't work. What an odd idea!!! And yet right from the SOC:

Can Hormones Be Given To Those Who Do Not Want Surgery or a Real-life Experience?

Yes, but after diagnosis and psychotherapy with a qualified mental health professional following

minimal standards listed above. Hormone therapy can provide significant comfort to gender

patients who do not wish to cross live or undergo surgery, or who are unable to do so. In some

patients, hormone therapy alone may provide sufficient symptomatic relief to obviate the need

for cross living or surgery.

Almost reminds me of a certain group cherry picking quotes from the bible.

Ok that one there doesn't apply to me...but I had convinced myself when I first started on the path to HRT that it was all I would need. I know now that I was lying to myself, but it got me in the door.

Then at one point when I was talking about an informed consent program, I was told it was slightly better than self-medicating. Really? I'm under the care of a doctor who is out of a LGBT clinic and I saw her the first month I started, then a month later. Been taking pills since the end of July and I've had 3 blood tests done and I'm having another one this month I believe. So this is slightly better than self-medicating?

And then of course the cherry on the pie for me. Forget the FDA, and no you are not smart enough to make an informed decision. There are only a few acceptable methods to remove hair here. I have gotten this word in a round about way from posts from numerous mods/admins here.

Now would it be support if on a thread where someone started talking about how happy they were starting laser treatment someone posted that it didn't really work for them or maybe post a pic of a badly disfigured face from the treatment? Or electrolysis scars? Maybe when someone paints their nails I could post that I don't like the color? That's pretty supportive isn't it?

So this is a board people are supposed to turn to for support, and yet it seems though I'm under the care of a therapist and a doctor who is very involved in the LGBT community, I'm not marching correctly. It seems every decision I make is the wrong one for this board.

I really appreciate that.

/end rant

Kim

[Guest Cris]

Kimberly,

I too have had some run-ins or disagreements with some peoples mentalities here that they believe there is a set guideline and everyone better be marching to those orders.

I take that with a grain of salt. and quite frankly do not pay them much attention to their posts. The unfortunate thing is some have a lot of followers, and its the new ones that come here looking for help and guidance that get absorbed into that culture. We are all very different and unique. We all want or need to end up at different places along our paths. Some may follow already trodden paths of those before us, others may choose different options or end results.

I do believe in some of the forums rules about not posting how much of med X you may be prescribed, or to be active in disouraging the use of self medicating. However sometimes that may be a persons only option. I feel for them as they do not get the benefits of a therapist or Endo's help and guidance along the way. But thats where it should end. If the person wants to continue they shouldnt be bashed.

In my case. I'm unemployed and I do live fulltime. I want to stay married to my wife and remain active with her. Although HRT has reduced some of that it has not elliminated it. I have not opted for surgery. Even though its something I have thought about long and hard, and would want. I have other compelling issues to not go that route. Thats my path not anyone elses. And although they may not believe that they would be happy or could stop at those decisions. It does work for me. Those people should just be supportive and caring for me as a person and the jouney that I am on. Not harsh as my journey is not the same as theirs.

I feel your pain. There are alot of good people on here. You just have to weed through a few that are highly vocal to get to the ones that are truly compassionate for the journey that you are taking.

Cris

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Kim

I don't read any of that here on Laura's I guess. I just don't clearly see what you are talking about in this topic - but maybe I am missing something. I have been here over two years and I see this site suggesting THERAPY to (1) discover where the gender dysphoria lies with a person, directly (2) to offer solutions custom fitted to your needs (3) monitor the mental health reaction to any steps YOU decide to take, and (4) to insure any choices involving prescriptions are monitored by a physician (mainly for adverse reactons such as liver damage).

We at Laura's are NOT therapists. We DO NOT advise on drugs or dosages, as this is not allowed. BUT we do relate personal experiences.

What people feel and say about things SHOULD be from personal experiences - not hearsay.

But there is no censorship beyond the rules. So EVERYTHING on Laura's needs to be read through those filters.

.......................

My therapist? She says the SOC requirements are 'guidelines.' She applies them in her own interpretation as applies to me. We also have some 'hack' therapist/physicians here in New Orleans, unfortunately ones connected through the LGBTQ in a loose way. Some of these 'money-loving doctors' really do our trans a disservice, by allowing what many consider 'marginal' people access to some treatments that might not be suited for them, mental health-wise. Sorta like 'you got the money, honey, I got the HRT."

.......................

And if you think it through, many gender dysphoric actually 'self-medicate' by telling 'anything' to a therapist to get what they want. I cannot think what it would have been like if I had NOT had a competent gender dysphoria trained therapist lead me through this madhouse of transitioning!

.......................

So PLEASE! Everyone! You MTF, in my experience, but EVERYONE - if you are on HRT and it is NOT what you thought or it is getting too complicated - tell your therapist!

And if you still don't get things straightened out - consider finding another therapist.

These should be the happiest days of your life, because although you lose so much - you finally find yourself.

......................

Lizzy

[Guest Lily B]

I think there is a certain amount of that, but I wouldn't call it closed-mindedness. It's more like since transitioning is such a big decision people get worried that someone is gonna end up hurting themselves in some sense. So they're very careful not to...like...encourage people down a path that they're not sure about.

But maybe there is some unnecessary stigma, if you consider how our brains are programmed to be more convinced by individual stories than by statistical data.

But its never done out of fervor, it's always out of concern, as far as I've seen.

[Guest Patsy]

Given the membership numbers here, the surprising thing is not that we have occasional

conflict, but that we function at all.

Everything I see here, I filter through my own subjectivity, and I often need to remind myself of that.

[JJ]

Kim,

There is a vast difference between accepting any opinion expressed here and support. Just because I may not agree with your opinion on a subject and state my own opinion doesn't mean I am attacking you or failing to support you. That means accepting you as the woman you are and doing my best to give you the benefit of my experience and opinions. This exchange of ideas is a good and necessary thing.

There is no one way for everyone. No one says there is. The SOC are not sacred cows-they are not a bible and they are both outdated and flawed BUT they are a very essential safety net that are in place to protect us. The horrific pressures of being trans can mean some are so conflicted and confused that precautions are necessary to catch and help those people. What alternative is there? Informed consent works for some but carries serious risk for those who may not actually be stable enough to give that consent. The alternative is to go before an examining board that says okay you can go with informed consent but you over there need to follow SOC, etc. It would be a bureaucratic nightmare that would rapidly lengthen the time necessary to transition to decades and leave our lives even more at the whim of others. I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong but I am saying there are real dangers for some individuals and even for the community as a whole if too many who should not go ahead with transitions and end up in the media.

I am non transitioning physically. I have never felt any lack of acceptance or any degree of pressure to transition. Just the opposite. I have felt within myself a sorrow that I can't experience the joys and triumphs others have. It does make me wish I could transition. But that feeling comes from within me-is my reaction to what I am reading and never from others on this site. I can't remember a single post telling someone they HAD to transition. I have seen-and posted myself- that it is necessary to deal with our GID. That it cannot forever be denied. That may be as simple as in my case realizing what you are and learning ways to be and express yourself without physical transition-I have not physically changed but make no mistake I live my life as a male within those limitations- or it may mean full transition including SRS. That is not a decision anyone here will ever make for you. I am welcomed and valued and loved here just as I am.

So please join us in our discussions and enjoy the exchanges for what they are. Expressions of caring and a desire to help.

We may disagree with your idea or opinion but we still care about you!

Hugs

John

[Paula ult]

I've been on here for almost 5 months now, and yes I have found some amazingly supportive people.

At the same time, there seems to be a certain closed-mindedness. People are hypercritical of the Religious Right because of their intolerance and closed-mindedness, but there seems to be one acceptable way to transition here by lots of people that I've always found confusing.

There are MANY posts telling people about the sacredness of the Standards of Care by some and how they must be followed. And these same people are not willing to accept that some people may not want to live full time or have SRS. That just won't work. What an odd idea!!! And yet right from the SOC:

Can Hormones Be Given To Those Who Do Not Want Surgery or a Real-life Experience?

Yes, but after diagnosis and psychotherapy with a qualified mental health professional following

minimal standards listed above. Hormone therapy can provide significant comfort to gender

patients who do not wish to cross live or undergo surgery, or who are unable to do so. In some

patients, hormone therapy alone may provide sufficient symptomatic relief to obviate the need

for cross living or surgery.

Almost reminds me of a certain group cherry picking quotes from the bible.

The SOC is only a guideline, some therapists treat it like a bible, some use older versions, like version 5 which is not as flexible as version 6, some therapists choose to follow it losey, they might give the letter for HRT after a couple of sessions, then there are the therapists that follow it to the letter, you will get your letter for HRT after 3 months and not before, and finely there are the therapists that follow it to the letter but add their own guidelines and make the person jump through many more hoops over a long period of time to get the letter for HRT.

My feelings are a person should go only as far on this journey as they feel comfortable then stop, if that means just crossdressing fine, if that means taking small dosages of HRT that is fine too, many that transition never get SRS, either because of age, health money issues etc, of those that transition less than 10% actually go on to get SRS.

Ok that one there doesn't apply to me...but I had convinced myself when I first started on the path to HRT that it was all I would need. I know now that I was lying to myself, but it got me in the door.

Then at one point when I was talking about an informed consent program, I was told it was slightly better than self-medicating. Really? I'm under the care of a doctor who is out of a LGBT clinic and I saw her the first month I started, then a month later. Been taking pills since the end of July and I've had 3 blood tests done and I'm having another one this month I believe. So this is slightly better than self-medicating?

Informed consent is fine if you get therapy and blood tests to monitor your levels, unfortunately allot of those transitioning also have mental health issues of one kind or another and need regular therapy before they start HRT, once you get past a certain point on HRT it will be difficult but not impossible to go back, but by this time many are out to friends and family and stopping and putting the genie back in the bottle is impossible. There are stories of those with money who bought their way through transition in a short period of time then regretted it later, these are the people that bypass therapy but if they did the therapists following the SOC would have most likely weeded them out, for every story like this it gives the opposition more ammunition to not allow us to be ourselves and not allow us the rights every other person gets.

And then of course the cherry on the pie for me. Forget the FDA, and no you are not smart enough to make an informed decision. There are only a few acceptable methods to remove hair here. I have gotten this word in a round about way from posts from numerous mods/admins here.

Electrolysis is the only permanent hair removal procedure today, even laser has some hair regrowth after a few years, if there is something that is better i have not heard about it, and if there was and it was cheaper it would be used and talked about here and other forums i belong to, there are lots of people and companies out there that want to take advantage of us, they know we are desperate for results, something that might work on a GG may not work well on us due to our facial hair being thicker.

Now would it be support if on a thread where someone started talking about how happy they were starting laser treatment someone posted that it didn't really work for them or maybe post a pic of a badly disfigured face from the treatment? Or electrolysis scars? Maybe when someone paints their nails I could post that I don't like the color? That's pretty supportive isn't it?

So this is a board people are supposed to turn to for support, and yet it seems though I'm under the care of a therapist and a doctor who is very involved in the LGBT community, I'm not marching correctly. It seems every decision I make is the wrong one for this board.

In my opinion you are doing things the right way, maybe slightly different than i am or someone else, but the right way none the less.

We each transition in our own way, be yourself.

I really appreciate that.

/end rant

Kim

Paula

[Drea]

In some ways the trans community is the most judgemental towards trans people. In my experience with the community I have encountered online, developed friendships online, known in person or have become personal friends a large number of trans peoople. The diverse personalities, diverse experience and diverse needs.

It's been my observation that those in the community (particularly online) who are most vocal tend to be those about to transition, those who are in transition or have just transitioned. So much of the strong opinions expressed is from that narrow viewpoint.

I find a small subset of those most vocal tend to have very narrow view of those they feel should be transitioning and those they don't. Even though they may not express it overtly, it becomes obvious in the way they react to some verses others. Given the wide diversity of needs, experiences and personalities I seen in the community, I am very reluctant to make such judgements about others based upon my personal standards.

There are of course other points of view one encounters oline. From my own transitional period there was one post-op girl who was 10 years after SRS at the time. I found her very well grounded and her views very different than others. I guess this is just a natural progression.

As quoted, the SOC certainly recognizes and understands that hormones are often all some need. It seems completely sensible to me that one not force themselves further, to full time, to public role change, to SRS, if that isn't what they need. To make intent to transition fully a prerequisite to giving hormones just doesn't make sense.

In my opinon if one is getting a perscription through a reputable medical professional for hormones it is not self medicating. The one informed consent clinic I know out this way does do an eval. That often do require one to see a mental health clinician. Or if their judgement is that the person is not stable, they will require one to see a therapist. If they don't immediatly, they may impose that any time in the process as a condition of continuing to administer hormones.

Having said all that, there are people who do go on hormones because they think it would be cool to just have breats, but who later regret it when they do experience development. Would seeing a therapist first prevent that? Probably not in all cases, but its the best thing going.

When it comes to transition, in my view only 10% of transition is the mechanics of it, the comming out, name change, hormones, surgery, presentation. The other 90% is mental. If one doesn't deal with the self esteem issues, insecurity, guilt, and other issues that tend to come with being trans, those things will come back to eventually. So I always advise therapy and taking it seriously.

[Guest Sally G.]

Kim,

I sense your frustration.

I have no issue with you operating under an 'informed consent' regime. You are doing what is right or fits for you. A comparison could be made with Samoan fa'afafine who are identified as young children as mtf and celebrated within the culture as males with a feminine gender identity. They are not conflicted about who they are but some choose HRT - this in my mind is a situation where informed consent is entirely appropriate as the medical model to be operating under (vs the SOC). They have spent their lives living a feminine gender identify so the ability to function in a feminine gender role is not an issue.

I am just beginning to openly explore my trans identity and knowing about having available a range of options is very important. The non-op experiences are present at Laura's but they are harder to find. Being able to read about and correspond with trans-people using a range of coping strategies is something I treasure. I am aware from reading posts that JJ (quite open) and Drea (more reticient) have both opted for non-surgical paths and as I continue my journey I may ask them to share more of their experience with me so I can better gauge the options that are open to me.

The hair removal thing I am just starting down and will likely use a range of options (starting with shaving) but including laser, electrolysis, creams, waxing etc as appropriate at the various stages in my journey.

Aroha

Sally

[Guest EvenClose]

Yeah....yep..nope..maybe... Ok,..not ready yet...ok now im ready..

I once had a car wreck. Yeah it was a bummer. But when i realized I had the front end of my vehicle smashed into the front of " MURPHYS LAW!" I immediately realized that

Murphy kinda sucks.

Kim hunny,

I hope you have a better day tommorrow. I honestly hope that you have the best day imaginable. Cause when Murphy comes knockin at your door, its always a bad day.

I have those days too. Just try to understand that you probably have a lot of stuff that is bothering you and if you can't change it then change the things that you can. It makes me feel

better to know that I have control over what I do and say and when i do whatever it is that i do. But when Murphy says "HEY NOT SO MUCH!" yeah it kinda hurts.

Just never quit being yourself, even if it aggravates everyone around you. You are the best at being you and you probably would be amazed at how many really appreciate and look up to someone being themself. Its not a easy thing to do. Regardless of what issues any and everyone in the world may have, I'm betting that someone is smiling back at you even if you don't know it. So change what you can in your life to make it comfortable and don't worry about too much cause lets face it... we don't know what everyone is thinking, and when we know, its usually not as bad as we think.

you cheer up hun

Alyssa

[Guest Zolrek]

Just because people don't see your opinion as right and have a opinion that differ from yours does not mean they're attacking you or anyone. People need to step back and think before trying to put themselves in the victim seat during a conversation - I think people rush there a little too fast sometimes.

[Guest Emily Ray]

I have always found the site supportive of what ever way and how far a person is wanting to transition is a decision no one but the person involved can make.

As to the statement that informed consent was barely better than self medicating, I guess I never had that position stated so clearly in anything I have read. I strongly disagree with that position and I myself self medicated before seeing an endo for one month and then she used informed consent to start HRT officially.

We all come from diffrent places in our life. When I started and for the following six months I was a heavy meth user. For me the idea of self medicating being wrong just didn't fit in with the way I was living my life. For me those first weeks on E showed me I was on the right path. It brought me out of a multiple decades long depression just long enough for me to take more positive route for my transition.

I know that on some sites you can't even discuss the use of particular drugs because they can be dangerous even though Drs are prescribing them around the world.

I find Laura's is site where the focus is more about the psychological issues transiton brings up in my journey and I goto other places for medical information on transition.

I do believe everyone should read the standards so they can play an active role in their own life. If you at any time loose confidence or have a question about what your care provider is doing than you should seek a second opinion. It is your transition take ownership of it and learn.

Huggs,

Emily

[Guest KimberlyF]

I've been on here for almost 5 months now, and yes I have found some amazingly supportive people.

At the same time, there seems to be a certain closed-mindedness. People are hypercritical of the Religious Right because of their intolerance and closed-mindedness, but there seems to be one acceptable way to transition here by lots of people that I've always found confusing.

There are MANY posts telling people about the sacredness of the Standards of Care by some and how they must be followed. And these same people are not willing to accept that some people may not want to live full time or have SRS. That just won't work. What an odd idea!!! And yet right from the SOC:

Can Hormones Be Given To Those Who Do Not Want Surgery or a Real-life Experience?

Yes, but after diagnosis and psychotherapy with a qualified mental health professional following

minimal standards listed above. Hormone therapy can provide significant comfort to gender

patients who do not wish to cross live or undergo surgery, or who are unable to do so. In some

patients, hormone therapy alone may provide sufficient symptomatic relief to obviate the need

for cross living or surgery.

Almost reminds me of a certain group cherry picking quotes from the bible.

The SOC is only a guideline, some therapists treat it like a bible, some use older versions, like version 5 which is not as flexible as version 6, some therapists choose to follow it losey, they might give the letter for HRT after a couple of sessions, then there are the therapists that follow it to the letter, you will get your letter for HRT after 3 months and not before, and finely there are the therapists that follow it to the letter but add their own guidelines and make the person jump through many more hoops over a long period of time to get the letter for HRT.

My feelings are a person should go only as far on this journey as they feel comfortable then stop, if that means just crossdressing fine, if that means taking small dosages of HRT that is fine too, many that transition never get SRS, either because of age, health money issues etc, of those that transition less than 10% actually go on to get SRS.

I agree totally with this. Which is why recently I have spoken out on the androgynous board telling those people that if they want HRT have at it if it will make them feel better about themselves. It is not my life to live and I want nothing more than to see people not have to live in pain.

Ok that one there doesn't apply to me...but I had convinced myself when I first started on the path to HRT that it was all I would need. I know now that I was lying to myself, but it got me in the door.

Then at one point when I was talking about an informed consent program, I was told it was slightly better than self-medicating. Really? I'm under the care of a doctor who is out of a LGBT clinic and I saw her the first month I started, then a month later. Been taking pills since the end of July and I've had 3 blood tests done and I'm having another one this month I believe. So this is slightly better than self-medicating?

Informed consent is fine if you get therapy and blood tests to monitor your levels, unfortunately allot of those transitioning also have mental health issues of one kind or another and need regular therapy before they start HRT, once you get past a certain point on HRT it will be difficult but not impossible to go back, but by this time many are out to friends and family and stopping and putting the genie back in the bottle is impossible. There are stories of those with money who bought their way through transition in a short period of time then regretted it later, these are the people that bypass therapy but if they did the therapists following the SOC would have most likely weeded them out, for every story like this it gives the opposition more ammunition to not allow us to be ourselves and not allow us the rights every other person gets.

I have mentioned this before, but here in Chicago I had a GT and when she thought her peeps were ready for HRT, she sent them to my Informed Consent program instead of writing them a letter because it was so much cheaper and usually quicker. And *gasp* one of the GTs on the Laura's Approved list of therapists does the same thing So I had a GT kinda tell me to go to this program and then I switched therapists, but if I would have stayed-if my insurance would have paid for her-I would have been following the SOC to the letter. My issue with people being critical with the IC program is that as Drea states below the TS community is the most judgmental to itself, and there are younger TSs here. I have talked to many of them either through PMs or E-mails or through my blog. They feel like they're not doing things correctly and they're already dealing with depression and now, they're getting this pressure for more mature TSs like they're doing something wrong. This was EXACTLY like I felt 20ish years ago, when I started my yo-yoing in and out of transitioning. I don't really give a crap about me. Nobody here is going to make me feel bad about being in an informed consent program. I'm beyond that. Trust me. I'm worried about the people that were me 20 years ago.

And then of course the cherry on the pie for me. Forget the FDA, and no you are not smart enough to make an informed decision. There are only a few acceptable methods to remove hair here. I have gotten this word in a round about way from posts from numerous mods/admins here.

Electrolysis is the only permanent hair removal procedure today, even laser has some hair regrowth after a few years, if there is something that is better i have not heard about it, and if there was and it was cheaper it would be used and talked about here and other forums i belong to, there are lots of people and companies out there that want to take advantage of us, they know we are desperate for results, something that might work on a GG may not work well on us due to our facial hair being thicker.

Yeah...I posted on my Vaniqa thread that Electrolysis is the only perm method. I'm wondering though, why don't people post on all the laser threads that laser isn't perm?? And it and Electrolysis can cause serious damage to the face? Whenever I talk about FDA approved Vaniqa I seem to hear all the negatives in the world. And yeah once again, it wasn't tested on Trans, much like Spiro or Estradiol. Where is the concern for that fact on all the HRT threads? Oh, TS Road Map which is mentioned a lot here has links to Electrolysis, Laser, and Vaniqa. And no other hair removal systems. I've made all these points before, but nobody really wants to debate any of them. Bottom line is people here are not children. You can't get Vaniqa without talking to your doctor. Is it anyone else's business?

Now would it be support if on a thread where someone started talking about how happy they were starting laser treatment someone posted that it didn't really work for them or maybe post a pic of a badly disfigured face from the treatment? Or electrolysis scars? Maybe when someone paints their nails I could post that I don't like the color? That's pretty supportive isn't it?

So this is a board people are supposed to turn to for support, and yet it seems though I'm under the care of a therapist and a doctor who is very involved in the LGBT community, I'm not marching correctly. It seems every decision I make is the wrong one for this board.

In my opinion you are doing things the right way, maybe slightly different than i am or someone else, but the right way none the less.

We each transition in our own way, be yourself.

I'm working on it

I really appreciate that.

/end rant

Kim

Paula

I had to do a little creative multiquoting to get that to work

In some ways the trans community is the most judgemental towards trans people. In my experience with the community I have encountered online, developed friendships online, known in person or have become personal friends a large number of trans peoople. The diverse personalities, diverse experience and diverse needs.

This has been my personal experience too. I started to get involved with the Trans community in the mid 80's. It was members of the Trans community that pushed me to self-medicate when I was younger. It was members of the Trans community who made me think I was worthless when I was younger and doubt myself more than anyone else could. And it was also members of the Trans community that kept me alive. I'm really beyond that point in my life right now so I'll try to tell people in threads here that it's OK to be or do anything if you're not hurting anyone else and it makes you feel better and it keeps you alive. Isn't that the whole argument for homosexuality? What difference does it make in anyone's life what to mature consenting adults do in their bedroom? Well in the same way, what difference does it make in anyone's life what a mature adult does with the help of their doctor, be it hormones or hair removal? It's just not your concern. You can maybe point something out if you've lived through something, but to be negative on a thread based on hearsay like Lizzy said is wrong. There is more than one path.

[Guest KimberlyF]

That last one didn't fly either? I thought it was pretty mild. Oh well, your board your rules.

I bet someone is seeing this post and thinking 'Oh crap!' before they start reading it. I'm really not that much of a troublemaker. Usually

Seriously I do get the whole moderation not censorship deal nudge nudge. I've been an Admin and a Mod a few times cause these women I'm tight with always thought I was fair. My first day on a new board as an Admin I just posted come on, we're all adults here and we're all friends and we like each other. Just be nice to everyone and we don't need rules. That lasted like a week. I always seem to expect people to act nice to each other and I have no clue what reality I base that on?

Anyway you can delete that thread if you want (as if you need my permission lol)

As for my future if you can't post my replies and nobody wants to discuss anything w/me in PMs I'd find it pretty difficult to stay on the board. If anyone would like to talk but has concerns I'd never C/P a PM to try to hurt another Trans. It kinda goes against the spirit of the thread and would make me a hypocrit wouldnt it?

All I ask is if everyone is done w/me that my email address is left on the site in case anyone would be interested in dropping me a line. Of course nobody owes me anything but it would be a nice thing to do.

As always I wish everyone the best.

Kim

[JJ]

Kim I'm a little confused and don't know how to reply. As far as I am aware your posts are here and I have answered your PMs.

You are wanted and welcome on the forums and are not being ignored or isolated here.

If you want to discuss it please feel free to PM me

Hugs

John

[Guest therisa]

Kimberly, I go to a clinic which uses IC, and I told them, I wasn't ready at the time, to start my HRT program, as I had a lot more issues that needed to be addressed, first. As I have progressed through my various counselling programs, I have found more issues, which I have hidden from myself. Since that time, I am under the care of an Endo and working to dealing with my most serious of my mental health issues. I understand your frustration, but there is no right or wrong way, as long as the person is getting the proper medical guidance and counselling needed, for the healing of their body and soul, into one.

Personally, each individual should have the right to decide, how far they are willing to transition, whether it is because monetary, health or comfort level. More harm is done, when someone is forced to do something, which isn't right for them. Just my two cents, on this matter.

therisa

[Guest Orva26]

Hmmm... I never knew of this Vaniqa stuff. Have to look into that as I don't know if I'll have time to actually schedule appointments for other methods at first. I can't exactly start a new job and be like, OKAY EVERYONE I'M GOING AWAY ALL THE TIME!

Also,

Can Hormones Be Given To Those Who Do Not Want Surgery or a Real-life Experience?

Yes, but after diagnosis and psychotherapy with a qualified mental health professional following

minimal standards listed above. Hormone therapy can provide significant comfort to gender

patients who do not wish to cross live or undergo surgery, or who are unable to do so. In some

patients, hormone therapy alone may provide sufficient symptomatic relief to obviate the need

for cross living or surgery.

This makes me happy! I have no clue where I'm going to end up right now but I think that path will involve hormones as it is an inescapable thought in my mind. If I try to think, maybe I'll just cross-dress the next thoughts that follow are of doing it openly to test people's reactions and then trying to get on HRT. If I try to think of going an androgynous route my brain sees it as an intermediate step towards physical feminization through HRT.

I don't think I will keep my identity a private thing either. More and more I find myself looking at social situations I see females involved in and finding that I want to be there as well. But I have absolutely no interest in ever getting SRS. I'd hesitate to call myself non-opt because that can be taken as someone who just can't obtain SRS for other reasons, financial, medical, etc. I also don't want to call myself a crossdresser because that has all kinds of negativity attached. Its actually a small goal of mine to come up with a term that when seen will convey what I am looking for and do it without nasty connotations.

I really think the big message about transitioning that should be put forth by the community and everyone involved in it is the truth, that it is all about self actualization. Wherever you start and wherever you end up it is okay. Whatever path you take, provided it is not causing real harm to yourself or others, is also okay.

[Guest KimberlyF]

OK...this will be my last post on the subject. Everytime I say that, I end up posting like 20 more because I know I have issues with talking too much

I tried to post something along these lines a day or so ago, and maybe I got a bit overzealous or it just got lost in the system which could happen.

There are bits and pieces of my bio in this thread and all over this board, but to recap and fill it out and explain what this is REALLY about. This is much longer than the one I tried before that poofed:

I was in my late teens and was very self-aware. I was pushed into self-medicating by other TSs because everyone was doing it and for the first time in my life I felt like I belonged with a group. I did not want to do it, but I also didn't want to not belong. And these people were older and smarter than me and they had a lot of the same feelings as me so it must be the right way to go. I didn't have insurance of my own...was on my parent's plan. I didn't have a therapist. I was living at home with my parents who would later not support me when they found out. They wouldn't get me a therapist other than one who would deprogram me from my destructive ways. I was even working a min wage job. There is no good time to start, but if you had to pick a good time, this would maybe be the worst time to start self-medicating/transitioning.

This was the cool clique on the board. They set the pace and everyone knew what a true TS would do. If you didn't have to do this stuff, you weren't. You were just a TV (I mentioned that crossdresser wasn't really that popular on other threads and this is how people self-described) and TSs looked down on TVs. I didn't, but some did/do. It's a sad fact that happens any time people are compartmentalized. I didn't even really dress much back then (or now) so the TV thing wasn't me. So I didn't want these people thinking that about me. I had to really pay attention to how things are done correctly. I never doubted myself more than I think I did around those people. I mean at first I listened to their stories and they were so much like mine. But what they wanted to do and how they wanted to go forward at that time just scared the hell out of me.

I had some people contact me privately and tell me not to do the hormones. It's dangerous. Over and over. And finally if I'm going to do this, this is the correct way.

I started them and I was very conflicted inside. There was never this sense of peace or happiness. It was more worry.

Then my parents found out. It didn't go well.

The one woman who was very strongly advising me to not start the hormones said if transitioning is something I really had to do at that stage of my life, she talked to her wife and it's OK they would help me. I could live with them and they would help me get a therapist and help me transition. She was an amazing person and one of many I've lost touch with over the years through various purges that I wish I knew how their lives went.

The people pushing me on the hormones pretty much said screw my parents...just keep going forward. But I can't afford to live on my own! Eh...you do what you have to do...I worked the streets a few years but I'm really Trans so I had to transition.

WHAT???

OMG...I can not do this. I am not these people. I finally thought I found people I belonged with but I don't get them at all. I must not even be a transsexual. I am so freakin' screwed!

I went into a major tailspin/depression. I didn't leave the bed for days. When I finally came out of it, I had the purge of purges. I figured I had it all wrong and I must be a guy so what the hell. I stayed off the computer for a while and started to hang out with people I knew outside the house. I started drinking. I told my dad it was always a dream of mine to be just like him when I grew up, so I got a job as a union construction worker. OMG I hate every day at work. I have sentenced myself to hell.

Then one of the new friends I met, one of my drinking buddies had an office and a computer with AOL on it and he let me have a key and I could go there over night and meet some people on the net and well, I started to travel around the country meeting TSs in other states and some came here. Lather rinse repeat I purged again. And again...

...and then I turned 41 and I knew I felt different. And this time I knew that I couldn't let my family tell me how to live my life. And at the same time, I couldn't let other transsexuals tell me how to live my life.

I know that I can be a pregnant dog at times but it's something I am a bit passionate about. I really want the world to be a better place for the next generation. And I can only teach people lessons that I've learned myself. It's OK to be yourself and go at your own pace and to turn off the road most traveled. It doesn't make you any more or less TS.

When I said this isn't about me, what I'm saying is nobody on this board is going to change how I'm going forward in my transition. And it really doesn't bother me when people are critical of my choices. If they were PMed to me I'd laugh most of them off. But when I think of how a young kid or someone who isn't 100% sure of whats going on in their lives might take some of the posts could read it, they do upset me a bit. Because I DO know what it's like to finally feel like you belong somewhere and then have that rug pulled out from under you and feel like maybe you don't fit anywhere.

Kim

[Drea]

I was pushed into self-medicating by other TSs because everyone was doing it and for the first time in my life I felt like I belonged with a group. I did not want to do it, but I also didn't want to not belong. And these people were older and smarter than me and they had a lot of the same feelings as me so it must be the right way to go.

If not outright pushed, there are gentle, and persistant pressures in the direction of hormones and transition within the community that add up. It is pretty much a constant no matter what site one goes to. There are always those few who talk about the great things happening for them as a result of them starting hormones or transition, how well they pass after a year or two on hormones, how so very much it is worth it, how so much better they feel now, how they can now be themselves, etc.

I suppose they like to think of it as providing encouragement. And it can be an example of what is possible, but it also tends to draw attention to themselves as if they are special. It sets themselves up on a pedestal for others to look up to.

I seen someone who did this sort of thing regularly, encouraged people to transition, then years later after after this person had SRS, this person comes to the realization they made a huge mistake.

This was the cool clique on the board. They set the pace and everyone knew what a true TS would do. If you didn't have to do this stuff, you weren't. You were just a TV (I mentioned that crossdresser wasn't really that popular on other threads and this is how people self-described) and TSs looked down on TVs

This reminds me of the "haves" and the "have nots". One who is not among the "have nots" end up feeling like they are less. Be it TV or crossdresser, they often get made to feel insecure just the same I can't say just how often I seen someone express "I'm only a crossdresser". To me it says we, as members of the community, are doing something wrong that someone feels they are less than others.

I really want the world to be a better place for the next generation. And I can only teach people lessons that I've learned myself. It's OK to be yourself and go at your own pace and to turn off the road most traveled. It doesn't make you any more or less TS.

I totally agree Kim, thank you.