Mormon Article

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Laura,

Such is life when we give benefit of the doubt to a person’s authenticity…At times we can all be taken in...

In the case of BK I still feel compassion and empathy towards her, even if she is really a confused trans teen or a frustrated adult with a warped sense of morals, if the latter, remember we must not sink to the same level ie, to show contempt for her as a person…

If ‘she’ is an adult and ‘male’, then we must pity her even more…How sad a life she must lead having to come to this forum to spread her religious candy coated hate speech crap and to top it all off what a ‘sinful’ life she leads …I’m sure to ‘deceive’ with the intent to harm others is also a sin before her maker…

In the mean time, I will stick to referring to her in the female sense, if she truly is a deeply confused teen my intention is not to make her feel worse than she’s already feeling…On the other hand if she is an adult ‘male’ s/he must be deeply disturbed mentally ie, a Mental Awareness Disorder [MAD] and this person needs our compassion and empathy more than ever…Remember ‘hate begets hate’…Just try and image what it’s like living with all this ‘hate’ and anger in one’s heart, it can’t be healthy – s/he must truly be suffering mentally.

From a Buddhist perspective if her intent was to cause harm then her actions will have accumulated unwholesome karma…In other words, [for those Christian members] Buddhist karma is similar to the Christian ‘You reap what you sow!’ however there’s no reward or punishment from a god, just the balancing out of karmic energies to bring harmony…’what goes around comes around!’

BK if you’re reading this, I hope that what is truly causing you grief is overcome by a cleansing of your heart…The concept of a god may not be part of my life but that does not stop me from pitying you as a person 'either' way…

Finally, Laura situations like this might for a while frustrate you, but in the long run it should make you stronger and wiser…However if your health is a problem why not let the younger healthier moderators and supervisors who have got their act together[ie, are comfortable in their own skin] take over the reins…

That way there will be less pressure on yourself…I’m sure the forum members and guests would sooner see a healthy ‘live’ Laura than a Laura who is physically sick from worrying and who seems to be carrying the burdens/troubles of others on her shoulders alone…

Laura remember, as human beings we can only do so much to help others and when we have reach our limitations the person in need must then try to help themselves…That's a fact of life...

Metta Jendar

[MaryEllen]

If ‘she’ is an adult and ‘male’, then we must pity her even more…How sad a life she must lead having to come to this forum to spread her religious candy coated hate speech crap and to top it all off what a ‘sinful’ life she leads …I’m sure to ‘deceive’ with the intent to harm others is also a sin before her maker…

In the mean time, I will stick to referring to her in the female sense, if she truly is a deeply confused teen my intention is not to make her feel worse than she’s already feeling…On the other hand if she is an adult ‘male’ s/he must be deeply disturbed mentally ie, a Mental Awareness Disorder [MAD] and this person needs our compassion and empathy more than ever…Remember ‘hate begets hate’…Just try and image what it’s like living with all this ‘hate’ and anger in one’s heart, it can’t be healthy – s/he must truly be suffering mentally.

At no time, either in his profile or in any of his posts, did blackkatsen indicate that he was transgendered in any way. We can only conclude that he was sent here or was acting on his own behalf to come here and sow seeds of disruption. The purpose of this site is to offer help and support to all transgendered persons who come here. It is not a site for malcontents to spread their own personal agendas, especially when there is doubt that this person is indeed transgendered. We are looking out for own here and as such, we will not tolerate any non-transgendered person to come here and spread disruption such as blackkatsen has.

MaryEllen

[Guest Leah1026]

i dont see why youre all so hard on him. it looks like hes just copy and pasting everything from church. and hes saying nice things about being open or at least friendly to transsexuals. i know i dont have any real experience yet, but my 2 cents: dont shoot the messenger. he hasnt really condemned anyone yet

Because Laura's Playground is supposed to be a haven for us, we should feel safe here.

Laura: You did what you had to do. I thank you and your staff for the job they do.

Hugs

[Guest (Lightsider)]

*scratches head...* Not sure I should say anything but here goes nothin!

I am Mormon...many of you know this.

The LDS church for many years would refuse to call a person by their new name even when legally changed. If you had been baptised a boy so therefor you would be referred to as tom ...richard or harry even if you dressed as a female.

But that has changed. How do I know? Because they call me by my female name.

It used to be that they would refuse use the proper pronouns...he she etc.

But that is no longer the case either. I have yet to be called a HE...in fact the leadership goes out of their way to refer to me as she.

I attend the womens groups...and I feel loved and accepted at every step of the way.

From the time I sat down with the leadership they told me they would have seen me as a woman if they met me on the street. Talk about a confidence builder!

I can not say all experiences with the LDS church are like mine... And Being pointed out that the article is 3 years old it is very plausible what was said in there is true and I have no reason to doubt it. I know of a trans who was given a raw deal by a bishop in the church 3 years ago..2005.

It appears to be a case by case deal. Your mileage may vary...

So...I dont think there is room to call Laura a liar. Things do change...progress can be made. What happened 3 year ago may not happen today. *shrug* Peace!

[Guest]

Yes I have no doubts things could change. I have no information to contradict that. Again the article was about 1 teen and 1 prophet and occurred in the Southern USA. The drama started 4 years ago and was written about 3 years ago. I hope the kid is OK but have no information either way.

When I was a schoolkid in the mid 50's I went to Catholic school. Back then with the nuns everything was about "Evil" and the "devil" to which even the smallest things insignificant occurences were attributed. I used to have night mares in Kindergarten about the Devil coming to take me away for the tiniest "Sin" and sending me to hell. This could include a spot on your white shirt, an untied shoe or not finishing the vegetables on your plate because people in China were starving. Today of course that's ridiculous. Being against sin was drummed into our heads and paddles were used on behinds and knuckles rapped by heavy rulers. The devil according to them was everywhere. What would they have done if they knew I was transsexual I wonder? I knew at age 4. I'm sure that would have been viewed as sin. My 9 th and tenth grades occurred in a Catholic preparatory seminary. The devil was no longer under every rock or behind every tree and bush. Finally i realized that in my early life they used guilt and threats of hell to guarantee my compliance. In a way that's what the prophet did. Tried to scare him the death and made Transsexuality a choice between good and evil. It wasn't Did they know it would cause the teens suicide attempts? Probably not, but they did. It's from ignorance not likley malice. I think that many religious people think that religion fixes everything. It doesn't as everything is not just about good and evil. They see people who are different and see evil where none exists much like that Nun saw evil in a spot on my shirt. The devil didn't make me do it i was hungry and enjoyed my food. I had polio at age two was it evil or an epidemic disease? When Katrina hit there were preachers sayin it was God's punishment for gays in the world. Being born Gay or transgender is the luck of the draw as a natural occurrence. It's not evil or a lifestyle. They can try all they want but trying to solve transgender issues with reliigion instead of medical treatment and therapy will never work. This is one thing religion just can't fix. Erasing ignorance can.

Laura

[Guest (Lightsider)]

Befor I came out to the church I was scared...I was worried because I read all the horror stories. I personally think my timing was just right and the church had progressed to a certain point to where it was open to me.

I think they are beginning to understand that this is a real medical circumstance but they still have a ways to go. I will say this...one thing that is key to how well thing go or don't go with the LDS church is how one approaches it.

I knew one trans who stood up in church in a dress...pre HRT...pre Beard removal and condemned the congregation. That person was excommunicated and I have no doubt in my mind why. Another trans I know is post op and still an active member. 3 years ago? I think things were a bit more harsh...and even more harsh 10 to 20 years ago.

No I am not out and making a scene. I am allowing the leaders to get to know me as a human being. I think that is the best thing I can do is show them we can be normal and happy.

Any way. Laura you provide an awesome place...do not feel it is a waste. hugs.

[Guest Isobelle Fox]

Laura,

I'm new here, so I am only slowly making my way through the various threads. I just read this one, and I saw your post about giving up the site and feeling that the job is thankless.

I know I can't imagine how hard it must be to have the burden of trying to help so many people who are in so much pain. But I can tell you that the existence of a site like this, run by people who clearly care a great deal about what they are doing and invest a lot of time and effort into it, is amazing and beautiful to me. I have been elated for the last few days over having found it, and frankly, some of the advice I have seen here has already probably saved me from harming myself through my own overly enthusiastic ignorance. : P

So, I thank you, and I thank everyone who works to keep this going.

There are a lot of messed up people in the world- people who will point fingers and make judgements, people who will abuse and hurt you for being different, people who will refuse to understand or to accept the essential fact that our condition is one of nature and not of choice- that there is nothing "wrong" with us or about us. People will call us names, and people will call us liars, and it will never feel good and it will never be right. But even if there are ten thousand of them to every grateful trans person that finds this site and finds help and hope here, the power of their malice and ignorance can never match or overcome the good that is being done.

Mean, misguided, and ignorant people make the world hard enough as it is; don't let them take this away too- and don't let them take your voice away from us either.

[Guest silverpetals]

*sigh*...i know nobody really wants to read this, but i think that perhaps the cause of this ban was just a few misinterpretations, and people being a little tetchy about their beliefs and against others' views. i don't think ashley accused laura of lying, i think that ashley may be exactly who she claimed to be--we have no reason to suspect otherwise, and although it isn't my decision, i don't think she should have been banned.

perhaps she was inwardly struggling with conflicts between her religion and her gender identity, and having just as many ties to one as to the other, found it just as important to speak out about what she saw as misleading information (not necessarily lies) about her church as if someone had challenged her gender confusion. i think it's natural for somebody to be defensive of their faith :S

if so, i think that she was in an even more vulnerable position than otherwise, and it's kind of sad to see a banning resulting from misunderstanding on her part, and imo on the part of the complainers and the people who read the post as being an attack on laura.

also, considering that she posted an apology for fear that she might have upset people, i really doubt that her post was a malign action, and though perhaps lacking tact, it wasn't an accusation. so...should she really have been banned for defending her faith, that she herself was probably having conflicts with, and expressing a lone opinion?

i am very grateful for all the selflessness and effort that laura and co. have put into this resource, but i totally disagree with the banning personally, and i'm quite shocked that it happened. but what's done is done i suppose, and there's not really any point in me posting this...

i don't mean to start any arguments or anything, and i do understand that she said a lot of things in her posts that have offended or hurt people (hey, i probably have too). i just don't think she did any of it on purpose, and that a ban was unnecessary.

thanks

[MaryEllen]

i don't think ashley accused laura of lying,

I assume that you're refering to Blackkatsen. The name Ashley is unknown to us. Not once during Blackkatsen's stay here did he use that name or even hinted in any way that he was transgendered. The fact is that in one of his posts he did accuse Laura of being untruthful in an atricle she had written. In plain English he called Laura a liar. Between the postings and what went on behind the scenes via PMs and emails, the banning was totally justified. We will not permit anyone who is not transgendered to come here and cause disruption the way Blackkatsen did. Laura's Playground is a support site for transgendered people, not a battleground for religious zealots with their own perverted agenda.

MaryEllen

[Guest Sheila]

laura, it makes me sad to read your post and see you bothered like this. i've learned so much here in my short time as one of your member's. without your site i'd still be lost. you've given me a sense of direction and purpose.

the church are experts at manipulating people's minds, they've been doing it for so long, and it seems when some people are doctored this way they are without any flexibility in their thinking and reasoning. i've been around for 50 years and think i have the wisdom of time and observation to come to this belief.

i have no life right now. i have nothing but time on my hands. i would love to be more active in the community. what can i do for you? i want to do something for our community but feel so helpless. i feel this need to give back. that's the least i can do to show my appreciation. i feel a little activistic right now myself. if i wouldn't have found your site i wouldn't be feeling like this. but finding someone who's fighting for my cause makes me want to jump right in and help. you inspire me laura

sheila

[Guest (Lightsider)]

laura, it makes me sad to read your post and see you bothered like this. i've learned so much here in my short time as one of your member's. without your site i'd still be lost. you've given me a sense of direction and purpose.

the church are experts at manipulating people's minds, they've been doing it for so long, and it seems when some people are doctored this way they are without any flexibility in their thinking and reasoning. i've been around for 50 years and think i have the wisdom of time and observation to come to this belief.

i have no life right now. i have nothing but time on my hands. i would love to be more active in the community. what can i do for you? i want to do something for our community but feel so helpless. i feel this need to give back. that's the least i can do to show my appreciation. i feel a little activistic right now myself. if i wouldn't have found your site i wouldn't be feeling like this. but finding someone who's fighting for my cause makes me want to jump right in and help. you inspire me laura

sheila

That can be so true that religion can hurt ones flexibility in thinking. In some cases it can be used by parents to black male and scare a child into compliance. My mother did that to me. She knew from the time I was 2 or 3 that I was female in the way I acted. Playing with girl toys...the whole nine yards. I remember times when I got older she would use the church and God as a way to scare me into compliance. She would tell me the church would reject me and not approve and God would not let me in his kingdom and so on.

I think at the time she was right that the church would have kicked me to the curb but also looking back I can see clearly how abusive she was. She did it all out of fear because she was scared how the world would treat me. It was not until I was 30 years old that she finally broke her silence and told me she knew I was female all along and she had done some of her own research over the years and felt she knew why it happened.

She had taken a drug while pregnant with me called DES. The day she confessed to me almost 10 years ago was like some one had turned on a light bulb and I realized...wow this is not my imagination! I really am a girl and my mother knew it all along. For years I was sooo angry with her and God...but I finally forgave her and came to my own conclusion that God had nothing to do with this.

And no... how I have been treated in my church is probably rare. But I do know some others like me who have not been excommunicated. Change has to start some where...small baby steps...and perhaps in another 10 years things will change even more for the good. It does not excuse the fact that others have already been hurt. sigh.

Perhaps by being a example to my church...it might make things easier for others who are moving along the same path?

Have a great day!!

[Guest Silver]

Laura and staff,

You've all done so much for this site. I shudder to think of what might have happened to many of us without this site. I came here confused and convinced I was a freak. I often looked up religious groups that claimed they could make me normal and was terrified to find their methods. I was convinced I was wrong. I was almost completely numb and the tiny part of me that lived wanted to commit suicide.

I found this site, and was saved. People were suddenly telling me that I wasn't wrong or sick or weird. They told me that it was just the way I was born, and that I should stop listening to those who tried to change me or tell me otherwise. I was thrilled beyond belief.Thanks to this wonder, wonderful site, I am alive and doing much better.

So just thanks for all you've done. All of you. Anyone who can insult any of you like that deserves what they got. You don't need to be insulted, you have enough to deal with. So, thanks again everyone. I wouldn't be around without you, and there are so many more you saved.

[Guest SeaJay]

I am kind of curious as to why Blackkatsen, a 16 year old Mormon kid (not a transsexual) is on a transsexual support group. I myslelf am Mormon, transsexual, and 14 years old, so I feel it's important to clarify some stuff. Monica Jennifer talked about her experiences with religion and intersex conditions. Since this forum is on the topic of Mormonism, I would like to point out that to my understanding, a Mormon with intersex conditions can undergo hormonal and surgical changes to become completely their desired gender without being excommunicated.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

FYI

In 2008 the special protected 'spirituality' section had not been formed.

So this topic has been moved to "MORMON" in the Christianity section.

I hope no one is inconvenienced with this.

Lizzy

[Guest Ezzy]

Interesting post, I myself was raised a devout mormon, when i told my parents i had GID, i was told almost the exact same thing. The devil was makin me say these things, an that i needed counselling with the bishop, When that failed i was sent out here to the states. Needless to say, I still have alot of love an respect for the church, but i dont think ill ever be able to go back.

[Guest Kathrin]

I am kind of curious as to why Blackkatsen, a 16 year old Mormon kid (not a transsexual) is on a transsexual support group. I myslelf am Mormon, transsexual, and 14 years old, so I feel it's important to clarify some stuff. Monica Jennifer talked about her experiences with religion and intersex conditions. Since this forum is on the topic of Mormonism, I would like to point out that to my understanding, a Mormon with intersex conditions can undergo hormonal and surgical changes to become completely their desired gender without being excommunicated.

Per the church handbook of instructions, the problem is with "elective" (voluntary) surgery. Presumably, this is intended to accommodate cases where it was chosen by the adults to "correct" intersex conditions. As these are typically performed on minors, and not their choice, it does not run afoul of the rules.

[MaryEllen]

Blackkatsen was found to be not transgendered and was subsequently banned from the forums.

MaryEllen

[Guest (Lightsider)]

Blackkatsen was found to be not transgendered and was subsequently banned from the forums.

MaryEllen

Wow. How was this discovered? I am blown away but not surprised because people like to troll the internet.