Do We Think We're Lesbians?

[Guest mary/jason]

dirt made a post on her blog roughly 3 hours ago that essentially states that transmen are taking over lesbian only spaces, regardless of the fact that we see ourselves as men. then she said one ftm said she's [jealous that the femmes like ftms more] and then she just complained. she ended up "deleting" the comments so no one knows if it true. but yeah i just wanted to ask, you guys dont take over lesbian spaces right? cause i dont. i mean, i connect with lesbians since as far as anyone knows i am one and have identified as such for a few years but take over? no. sides i dont really like femmy girls...

except penelope cruz...but everyone loves her.

sorry i know dirts a bad subject but i figure if we can collectively overcome her posts with logic then eventually she'll stop. of course she never posts my comments....

strength in numbers bros.

madison

how do we even know that all the people commenting arent just her on a different IP address?

[Guest ShortyT]

Penelope Who?

Never was and never will be in any lesbian spaces. I'm not into girls.

As for Dirt, I think she'll never stop as long as she gets attention. If we could collectively ignore her, I'm sure her life would get more dull. XD

[Guest CalvinFTM]

DIRT

[Guest Superrad]

Of course not, I like men!

My lesbian friends tell me I'd make a horrible lesbian anyhow.

[Guest mary/jason]

its just...i think she may be a paranoid schizophrenic or something. people dont just have these kind of illogical fears for nothing. its all very confusing but i just cant look away. i FEED on proving her logic to be unsound. hopefully she'll get bored with it, find out she's trans or find out she's straight. either way the internet will take over and we wont have to worry about her any longer.

[Guest 91curiouskitten]

I gotta ask, who is dirt O.o?

[Guest SidESlicker]

Sure I do. I'm welcome there.

The idea behind having lesbian spaces is to create a welcome and open and safe place, one that you can't find in a typical bar. I challenge any bar to tell any person that they're not welcome because they're not from the "right part" of the rainbow.

Seriously. Let's say that you're part of the lesbian community and you have been for the last twenty years. You and your friends have made that bar into your home, where countless of memories have been made, drunken rants have been spoken and embarrassing secrets have been blurted out.

You're really going to turn your back there because all of a sudden, you're not like anyone else? You weren't like everyone else from the beginning, and they still loved you.

Most lesbian bars I notice now identify as queer friendly spaces, to make sure that all of the trans identified folk (MtF, FtM, FtWTF, genderqueers and andros and all of Dorothy's friends) feel welcome right off the bat.

So yeah. I go to lesbians bars and lesbian nights, because I'm queer and I feel safer and happier in familiar places with familiar faces rather than going to a straight bar, being mistaken as a bio man, taking a straight girl home and then having to explain the no-penis thing from the beginning. Yeah no.

As for Femme's being more attracted to FtM's... lol what? Butch FtMs? Girly FtMs? Pre op or post op? On T or before T? FtM's that have faux hawks or Bieber cuts? And what kind of Femme's are we talking about? Old school, touch as nails femmes? Or the kind that can't think for herself? (not that some butches aren't the same)

The idea that someone who's gender EXPRESSION is only attracted, or more attracted to someone's identified gender is so funny, it's a little pathetic. I've been plenty of stone cold butches chat up all kinds of trans men. It doesn't make them any less gay.

And besides? Who do you think Drag Kings take home? Who takes the Drag Kings home? How about that gorgeous androgenous gender queer sipping hir beer in the corner? Are they welcome too?

I suppose though, if you want to use the old school definition of what a lesbian is, and what a lesbian is *supposed* to do, then sure yeah. Then it's perfectly acceptable for a couple that's been together for thirty years to break up because one has decided to transition, and his partner has decided that the title of being a lesbian is more important than love. While we're at it, lets make sure all the gay bars only let in men, straight bars only allow straights in and lesbian bars only let women-identified people in, even if it means the bouncer has to take you to the alley and asks you to drop your pants to prove your gender, since after all, your sex = gender = gender expression = stereotypical orientation

So forget that. I'm queer. My partners are queer. Don't get hung up on stupid labels, especially in this community, we all stand together.

We have one flag. You can't have a rainbow without all the rest of the colors.

[Guest mary/jason]

an angry butch lesbian blogger who is hell bent on writing off all transgendered individuals as a byproduct of misogyny in modern society.

i.e. she calls all FTMS women and says we're in denial of our womanhood

[Guest Cowboy]

I gotta ask, who is dirt O.o?

the name should give it away.

Dirt is nothing more than that. Filth. Good for nothin filth.

[Guest -Kale-]

Ahahahahaaaah.

Dirt.

I started reading her blog as a good anti-trans view to get a whole-round idea on the whole situation...But it's clear to me now that she's just an old man-hater. ):

As for me personally, I never "invaded" any lesbian spaces even when I was identifying as a lesbian. It just didn't feel like the right place for me to be, and I knew it even then, when I convinced myself of otherwise.

I never understood the lesbians dating FTM's, or other way around. Uh, we're guys. I thought that was kinda sorta the thing they're *not* into?

I mean, Dirt can, and does make a lot of good points, but mostly she's just blinded by the superior feminism men are scum of the earth and woman are the goddesses of can do no wrong sort of attitude that she's developed. I'm all for feminists, but... that is not what it is about.

Which is why I no longer take her seriously. ):

[Guest barton]

but yeah i just wanted to ask, you guys dont take over lesbian spaces right?

I've never identified as a lesbian (i can find both sides appealing, but men have always come out on top for me) so...no?

[Guest mary/jason]

she just...ASSUMES all ftms are straight then claims one or two ftms said something that may or may not be true! and people believe her! blind faith. no proof. and she STILL wont post my comments.

[Flint]

I gotta ask, who is dirt O.o?

Dirt is a substance. A filthy or soiling substance. I.E Mud or dust.

Excrement.

[Guest BrandonIThink]

I've never read the blog and I don't plan on giving her the attention any time soon.

A comment on the taking up of lesbian space: Many ftms never identify as lesbians, and me? I like guys.....

[Guest mary/jason]

exactly! so why is she so convinced? it just...it just makes my head hurt.

[Guest Cynthia Of Creation]

Im a lesbian!

Im a transwomen I like other women but whatever they like they like

I myself am very fem

but a lesbian is a women who likes women

if your ftm than that means your a man so that means your straight if your a man who likes women!

right?

[Guest SidESlicker]

if your ftm than that means your a man so that means your straight if your a man who likes women!

I disagree on that one...

I could never take a partner who wasn't queer themselves. For me, being queer is such a huge part of my identity, that I can't contemplate being with someone who doesn't share that part of my life with me.

So no, I don't consider myself "straight" because I'm not into straight women who are looking to take home a man who isn't queer.

Identifying as a trans man, whatever your orientation is, shouldn't exclude you from the queer community. I'm attracted to women who find me attractive, (as narcarcisstic as that sounds), and really, I've accepted my body, and I expect my partners to do the same, not only of my body, but of my gender identity as well.

A straight woman who has no experience or knowledge of the queer community isn't the type that I like to date. A woman who's lived enough in the queer community to know that I'm still the good time I was before I transitioned and can see past my body and past my gender and see me, the shy, tough-as-nails, insecure, get-the-job-done me.... hell yeah I'll take her home

So yeah, when I'm chilling at the lesbian bar, talking to old friends and flirting around, the trans thing does come up and I do get a few eyebrows raised at me. But screw them, because for every eyebrow that gets raised, two more people smile at me and wonder what it would be like if they took me home.

Will I ever fit in completely? Eh, probably not. But I'm not concerned. I'm comfortable with myself, and I'm confident and am able to articulate what I want.

What I'm trying to say is that I will always be the paradox and exception to every situation. And I'm perfectly okay with that. I'm not a bio man. I was not raised as one, I cannot become one, and I do not identify as a bio man. I identify as a trans man, and I accept that my vagina, while at odds with my mind, is something that is a part of me, and part of loving who I am is accepting all of me, even the wet and sticky parts.

So me in all of my paradoxial-exceptioness is going to flip the bird to all the rules that tell me where I'm welcome and what sort of people find me attractive and what's politically correct for me to want. Because eh, I got this far doing that, lets see how much farther I can go pushing down the walls.

My bedroom is a political male bovine crap free zone. So are my relationships. If I want to date a lesbian, or a queer identified woman, I will. And when people ask us what we are, I'll tell them that we're happy.

Eh, but this is my two cents. There are some FtM's who identify completely different and see the world completely different from the way I do. And that is totally legit too.

[Guest CharlesMonroe]

dirt made a post on her blog roughly 3 hours ago that essentially states that transmen are taking over lesbian only spaces, regardless of the fact that we see ourselves as men. then she said one ftm said she's [jealous that the femmes like ftms more] and then she just complained. she ended up "deleting" the comments so no one knows if it true. but yeah i just wanted to ask, you guys dont take over lesbian spaces right? cause i dont. i mean, i connect with lesbians since as far as anyone knows i am one and have identified as such for a few years but take over? no. sides i dont really like femmy girls...

except penelope cruz...but everyone loves her.

sorry i know dirts a bad subject but i figure if we can collectively overcome her posts with logic then eventually she'll stop. of course she never posts my comments....

strength in numbers bros.

madison

how do we even know that all the people commenting arent just her on a different IP address?

LMAO I would just like to add that at least half the people commenting on the blog, both positive and negative, are actually Dirt logged onto different accounts. It has been proven. She actually spends her time writing angry messages to herself to make us look bad

The more I think about it, the more hilarious it gets. Also, I wouldn't bother trying to understand her logic. It's on the same level as the Westboro Baptist Church or something. It's also hilarious that she seems to think she's helping us in some way XD

[Guest Cowboy]

Personally, I've never identified as a lesbian. I've always just considered myself a straight male. The title "lesbian" just felt odd to me, because I'm a guy. I don't identify as a girl. Therefore the title lesbian just doesn't suit me.

And every girl I've been with has dated me in sense that I'm a male. Regardless if they knew I identified as FTM or not. I just present myself really hyper-masculine, so for my girlfriends, it's like being in a relationship with a male (which they are). I'm not saying hyper-masculine in a bad way, I'm saying hyper-masculine as in the "how in the world can you even be a girl?" good way. (because that's how my ex explained it to me. lol)

[Guest Liam]

I'm queer. I spend time in queer spaces, and I tend to be more attracted to queer women than to straight women. I'm currently dating someone who identifies as a lesbian. That said, I don't "take over" lesbian spaces. I don't even go into lesbian spaces if they're defined as "lesbian only" or "women only" because I'm not a lesbian or a woman.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Im a lesbian!

Im a transwomen I like other women but whatever they like they like

I myself am very fem

but a lesbian is a women who likes women

if your ftm than that means your a man so that means your straight if your a man who likes women!

right?

Im a transwoman, though now I just see myself as a woman, who likes women. An FTM can no more be lesbian than i, as and MTF, can be gay... NUF said...

[Guest Ezzy]

LMAO I would just like to add that at least half the people commenting on the blog, both positive and negative, are actually Dirt logged onto different accounts. It has been proven. She actually spends her time writing angry messages to herself to make us look bad

interesting bit of information, now that i read through all the comments, cant help but laugh at the thought that she may be logged into diffrent accounts posting.

[Flint]

LMAO I would just like to add that at least half the people commenting on the blog, both positive and negative, are actually Dirt logged onto different accounts. It has been proven. She actually spends her time writing angry messages to herself to make us look bad

How has it been proven?

I find this interesting. But I refuse to laugh till I know how it was proven.

[Guest N.Chaos]

I've never really gotten along well with most lesbians, but I don't get along with most women period though. No, I definitely think of myself as a man, even when I was telling myself I was a lesbian it felt completely wrong.