Who Will You Vote For In 2008?

[Guest]

Normally we allow Politics discussions only as they relate to Transgender issues. However the USA 2008 elections are probably the most important ever in recent history. It should be discussed. There are two excellent candidates with very different views on almost all the issues. Some of them like their stands on LGBT issues affect us directly. One Candidate supports us the other does not. Should that be the only issue though? Which candidate would you vote for? Why? For this thread any election issue can be discussed, transgendered or not. Please follow the rules and respect others opininons without name calling. What are the candidates strengths? What are their weaknesses? If it works out we'll open a politics and religion forums and consider removing the transgender related requirement. Would you be for or against that?

I have the greatest respect for both candidates even though I don't agree with both. Obviously LGBT issues are very important to me. However there are other issues that will affect our world for years to come. Personally i think things are so broken I don't know if they can be fixed in 4 or even 8 years. I'm also concerned that the gay marriage vote in California could affect the election outcome as it did in 2004 when anti-gay sentiments had an undesired affect on the presidential election. Peace!

Laura

Note You don't have to be 18 to vote in this poll. Any member can vote.

[Guest silverpetals]

wow, politics. i can't really vote for either, partly because i'm under 18 and partly because i don't even live in the usa :/ so umm...it doesn't really matter. if i could, i might vote for barack obama as the lesser of two evils, but i seriously doubt he will win. i hope the american electorate (or whoever's in control of this ) proves me wrong though!

on a slightly controversial note...is it really true that no one votes for third parties in the us? when you have two parties who, despite differences, share quite similar political stances, is there really any choice or is the "choice" just an illusion?

and is a two-party state really so much better than a one-party state?

[Guest Snow Angel]

I don't vote. Never have. I don't know if I ever will.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

It's a no brainer....

Barak Obama would have my vote, even with all the dirty ‘political’ laundry out for all to see, he still comes across as a more sincere person when it comes to gay and transgender issues[plus has a ‘coloured’ person he has experienced ‘prejudice’ so knows what devastating impact it can have on ones dignity] It can be hard for some people[take John Mc Cain for example] to empathise with the plight of others if they have never walked in the other person’s shoes …

I recently read an interesting article in a magazine re: The American elections… A cognitive psychologist pointed out that we all tend to ‘mask’ our deep felt prejudices when talking with a pollster, mainly because we find psychological comfort in placing the best version of ourselves before the world…Hence when many white Americans are asked in public would they vote for Obama many answer yes…But in the comfort of the ‘concealed’ polling booth - their attitude might change

I not too sure whether many here are aware of the ‘Racial Resentment Index’ [RRI] This index was developed by social scientists to measures ‘white’ respondent’s attitudes towards African American’s welfare programmes and the civil rights movement…It covers 10 areas…

(1) Disapprove of racial preferences

(2) Less qualified people hired often

(3) Whites lose out

(4) Gone too far pushing rights

(5) Poor too dependant on government

(6) Blacks responsible for own condition

(7) Disapproval of interracial marriage

(8) Few things in common with Blacks

(9) Would mind if a black person moved close

(10) Would be upset if daughter dated a black

Now if you hold some of those views-even with Obama being ‘ethnically ambivalent’ not black and not white… would you cut off your nose [vote for McCain] to spite your face[ to appease your deep felt prejudices]?

Don’t worry I’m not having a dig at white America, similar attitudes are expressed when it comes to race, by those in the UK and other Western white societies including Aotearoa NZ… BTW I’m also ethnically ambivalent ‘Afro Caribbean’ and ‘Anglo Saxon’ when it comes to race…I CAN'T very well, cut of my nose [my white mother] to spite my face -[my black father ] loved them both equally...

In all honesty I don’t know much about John McCain or his stance on transgender and gay issues…except for the fact he tends to flip flop all over the place…

I would love to see Barak Obama in the white house but sadly my fears are ‘psychologically’ white America is just not ready to embrace such a change in attitude - the legacy of 400 years of slavery cannot change overnight [guns are being cocked all over the US]…It’s possible, if Barak did become America’s first ‘non or part white’ President, he would go the way of JFK …I really do hope I’m wrong about modern white America’s attitude…I guess we will just have to wait and see…

"Barak Obama oh my, what a charmer...I would love the chance to see - how America would be...with an Obama Presidency!!!!"

Metta Jendar

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I don't vote. Never have. I don't know if I ever will.

This is as good a time as any to start!! I used to never vote either, but I started with the 2000 election and haven't regretted it. This isn't the most apt analogy, but it's kind of like how betting on the races makes them more interesting. I mean, I obviously have other reasons, but voting makes me feel involved in ways that I never did before.

I hate having to go to the polls, so I always get an absentee ballot mailed to me. In the county where I live, you just go to this website and sign up. Then they mail them to you.

[Guest April]

I have not been following any of it because i never vote aether. But with some of the stuff i am hearing it sounds like might be a good year to start. So with that said please fell free to bring me up to speed on the 2 of them. Until now i never had a care because they did what they wanted but with me finally coming to terms with myself being TS, i now see that as bigger issues.

[Guest]

" The United States presidential election of 2000 was a contest between Democratic candidate Al Gore, then Vice President, and Republican candidate George W. Bush, then governor of Texas and son of former president George H. W. Bush (1989-1993). Bill Clinton, the incumbent President, was vacating the position after serving the maximum two terms allowed by the Twenty-second Amendment. Bush narrowly won the November 7 election, with 271 electoral votes to Gore's 266 (with one faithless elector abstaining in the official tally). The election featured a controversy over who won Florida's 25 electoral votes (and thus the presidency), the recount process in that state, and the unusual event that the losing candidate had received 543,816 more popular votes than the winner". From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States..._election,_2000

As you can see every vote counts. Do you have any idea how many people kicked themselves the next day for not voting. Think how different the last 8 years would have been under Gore. In 2004 I had some LGBT friends stay home and not vote because of the anti gay marriage pickets at voting booths intimidated them. Look what happened, 4 more years with Bush. Right now Obama leads McCain by double digits in the polls. Makes it tempting to stay home doesn't it. As Jendar says many may not be telling the truth in the polls either. That doesn't mean Obama is a shoe in. If you aren't registered to vote in your area please take the time to register now in your district. Believe it or not your vote counts on elections day. Well at least let's hope so.

The poll here is looking for your views and aren't binding. Whether you are of voting age or not vote in the poll. Your opinion is important no matter which candidate you prefer.

Laura

[Guest Kim Smith]

In our straw poll, as I will in November, I voted for Obama. And it isn't for reasons that would be obvious because I am a crossdresser.

My take on ploitics right now is that we need to get the power back in the hands of the people. There are two things that are required to make this happen - first, we must work to take it back. We cannot expect those in power to just give it up. The second is that we must have leaders that are prepared to take their direction from the people and not the traditional power sources (corporations, the "wealthy elite" who can buy into the system, etc.) NOTHING important will happen until this is accomplished. You think we can have national health care that will be evenly available to all? Not until we break the stranglehold on the political process the insurance compnaies have. Without that, all we will do will make no more difference than to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

McCain USED to be a "Maverick," but he has decided that he cannot win this election without the conservative right, so he is pandering to them shamelessly. He is proposing to recommend only "strict constructionist" judges to the Supreme Court (i.e., those that will vote to overturn Rowe V Wade and uphold the extreme theories of Executive Power that Bush has started). He has said he wants to make permanent the Bush tax cuts, when he voted twice against them. He has completely abandoned his own immigration plan in favor of Bush's. And he has said that it would be fine with him if we were in Iraq for another 100 years.

[Guest Madison_Always]

i dont rly want either of them as my president personally but i dont think Barack will win for unfortunately the age old reason. race. I just dont think the presidential race barrier is ready to b broken but again im not to hot on either. i liked huckabee most. *note* no racism or meanness intented just my opinion of the economy stricken US presidental canidacy(typo?)

[Bulldog1948]

Well, I voted for Hilliary in our primary. Sure shocked the crap outta the old ladies at the polling station. Yeah, I was one of those Repubs who crossed over to vote Demo and so did my wife. Obama only won 4 counties in Ohio [ if I recall correctly, that means he lost 84 of them. Ohio is a very conservative White state, probably more so than Southern states.

Now, the real question is - will the cross-over voters swing to vote Obama over McCain and I would venture to say NO; they won't. Hilliary had a power base in this state. But Obama does not. He's already made the statement that he doesn't need Ohio to win, we'll see. And for you younsters on this board, the batlle between JFK & LBJ was ugly & brutal, so was Vietnam and the race riots of the 60s.

Jetta your anaolgy of " guns being cocked in America", may not be too far off. America can be very racist. Actually I had really hoped that Hilliary would win the nomination so that we didn't have to worry on whether Obama would be shot or not. I'd hate to have to endure race roits again.

So, who am I going to vote for??? THat's a question that shall remain unanswered until November.

Bulldog

[Guest Sly]

I will vote for McCain, although he is too liberal for my taste. Obama has some bad ideas. One of the reasons that we need trade agreements with every country, is to have Americans there to monitor the government. That is crucial in keeping biological and other weapons out of our own country. Also I do not like the way he and Hillary both are promoting globalization, which is the one world government, which is fascism. Also he can not possibly be serious about creating millions of jobs. Machines are displacing people, trade unions have overpriced labor, and there is no incentive for jobs overseas to come here. I California, it is cheaper to import work than it is to use local labor.

[MaryEllen]

Please, no more talk about "guns being cocked in America". The FBI and HomeLand Security already monitor forums such as these on a frequent basis. We certainly don't need to be placed on a watch list if indeed we aren't already.

MaryEllen

[Bulldog1948]

Please, no more talk about "guns being cocked in America". The FBI and HomeLand Security already monitor forums such as these on a frequent basis. We certainly don't need to be placed on a watch list if indeed we aren't already.

MaryEllen

No problem Mary Ellen. I tried to be extremmly careful in my reply. Sorry, I didn't mean to cause any problems. Yes, I can get with their watching American citizens every word and move. Brings back memories of the 60s; doesn't it. Oh well, I'm into my senior years and not into really fussing over politics.

[MaryEllen]

I've lived under every president starting with Franklin D Roosevelt and over the years I've observed that there isn't anything that rarely ever gets better. The rich get richer. The poor get poorer and the working middle class bears the brunt of the burden. Slick talking politicians from both parties promise changes that will turn the US into a virtual utopia. Yeah, right. It ain't gonna happen. It's going to be the same old, same old after the elections are over. All I'm hearing now is slick talk from greedy, corrupt politicians who are pursuing their own agendas. They certainly are not looking out for the welfare of the citizens who voted them in.

Question---- How can you tell when a politician is lying?

Answer------Whenever he opens his mouth.

I guess you could say that I'm a bit of a cynic.

MaryEllen

[Guest Andrea-M]

Well said MarryEllen , same in the UK , when did you get a straight Yes/No answer from a politician?

[Guest Link48010]

Most of my political following was following LGBT rights, and that's still a huge chunk of it, but recently with the poor economy hitting home, that's taken priority. Back in the day before the nominees where chosen, only two said exactly how they would fix the economy, giving a very in depth plan, and that was Doctor Ron Paul (Republican Libertarian, don't confuse with neo-cons like Bush and McCain) and Barrack Obama. Previous to his drop from the race, Ron Paul had my support (granted I'm not old enough to vote) but now after seeing Obama literally sweep the floor with all other opponents presented to him, his strong will and similar views to mine (although I still agreed with Paul more) have stolen anything I could and will give. He is so awesome, I see something genuine in him, he has this.... look in his eye that shows how determined he is, it's so powerful and hypnotizing to me. Finally, he can talk, his public speaking skills are incredible, I also trust him more because he is younger and can see that the world is changing and the US needs to change with it. I agree and am of the opinion that a conservative mind cannot change the world. McCain has actively voted against LGBT rights, against solutions to the energy crisis, against leaving Iraq, and pretty much against anything that would improve the economic and social situation of the country in my mind. I don't want 4 more years of the Bush foreign, budget, and social policies. What I don't really understand is that Bush's approval rating is in the 20's, and yet McCain is so similar and his are so much higher . I have noticed though that as the country goes though it's ups and downs in the past, it's ups are almost always when the Congress and Presidency are split. With Clinton (regardless of his personal life) the country had a 4 trillion dollar surplus in money, the first time since..... well as long back as I've ever bothered to consider modern times. Then Bush comes in *poof* 10 trillion dollar hole . And see, the Congress is Democratic, in theory the country should be improving, but *no* because rather than take the middle ground like every other president has done in the past when confronted with an opposite Congress, Bush just veto's every bill. I swear he has a "veto" stamp that is practically on fire right now cause it's moving so fast. He seems dead set on stopping *everything* Democrats try, and that's regardless if it makes sense or not. Like off shore drilling, a strategy that Analysis say won't give a drop of oil for *TEN* years and when it's fully under way in *TWENTY* years, the effect on prices will be so insignificant it would have been a waste of money to begin with.

Also he can not possibly be serious about creating millions of jobs. Machines are displacing people, trade unions have overpriced labor, and there is no incentive for jobs overseas to come here. I California, it is cheaper to import work than it is to use local labor.

Obama plans to invest over 160 billion over 10 years into renewable energy sources, something I already work for and can see from my back yard (wind turbines). These new industries will create new jobs, but who to fill these jobs, he has also spoken of repealing the loop holes that allow for companies to import labor and export business at cheaper prices as well as the loop hole that allows companies to use artificial speculation to drive up gas prices. America needs to strengthing is infastructure, and that means fading away from oil (or at least foreign oil as the US and Canada sit on the largest source of crude on the planet). Things like the auto industry are struggling (not just the US makers either, Nissan, Toyoda are all in trouble), other forms of transportation are weak (train, sea, etc) and even the internet industry is in trouble (the US invented the internet and is far from the fastest, no excuse. In areas like where I live, very expensive and limited satellite or dial up are the only choices). As sad as it is, even the electricity industry is in trouble, I get brownouts and blackouts on a weekly basis in greater Denver. Not something that should happen if you ask me. As long as the economy gets up off it's butt, my feelings won't be hurt *too* much. BTW, Obama has a 9% lead in Colorado, which although considered to be a state that can swing both ways, has always tended towards the republicans.

Phew, I apologize, that was much more of a rant than I planned on it being. As you've noticed, I'm a huge political geek

[Guest friendoftg]

I'm not convinced that Obama is going to be anything but abysmal when it comes to the rights of lesbians, gays, and transgendered people. His now coming out and planning to give huge amounts of cash to the faith based initiatives that were started under George W. Bush should be a warning sign. I really think that he is going to be a wolf in sheep's clothing on issues that are important to me. I have a feeling he'll sell out like Clinton did with the "Defense of Marriage Act". Obama practically sold his soul for a very small amount of cash on the FISA ruling so I don't expect him to be any different in office.

[Guest Link48010]

I'm not convinced that Obama is going to be anything but abysmal when it comes to the rights of lesbians, gays, and transgendered people. His now coming out and planning to give huge amounts of cash to the faith based initiatives that were started under George W. Bush should be a warning sign. I really think that he is going to be a wolf in sheep's clothing on issues that are important to me. I have a feeling he'll sell out like Clinton did with the "Defense of Marriage Act". Obama practically sold his soul for a very small amount of cash on the FISA ruling so I don't expect him to be any different in office.

Obama has before said something to the almost exact effect of, 'I will always support the equality of all people, and that includes our gay brothers and sisters.'

[Guest friendoftg]

I'm not trying to be combative or anything so please don't take the approach that I am. I have to respectfully disagree with you because his actions are speaking louder than his words. He's already gone back on his promise about securing our 4th Amendment rights with the FISA vote fiasco and he is "refining" his position on Iraq as we speak. Whenever you have a candidate who is trying to appeal to the mainstream of America, lookout. That mainstream is what gave us W in the first place and I for one am very frightened. It could be that I'm just so horribly cynical. Or it could be that the only change that guy is going to bring to Washington is the nameplates and that's about it.

[Guest]

Found an intersting article while editing the news today.

Transgender People Can Vote

http://isabellestpierre.wordpress.com/2008...eople-can-vote/

Laura

[Guest AshleyK]

If I were American I would definately vote for Obama.

[Guest katiewana]

Please, no more talk about "guns being cocked in America". The FBI and HomeLand Security already monitor forums such as these on a frequent basis. We certainly don't need to be placed on a watch list if indeed we aren't already.

MaryEllen

What has happened to us as a nation? It never fails to make me cry when I see or hear a statement like this, good people afraid to voice a simple opinion for fear of oppressive action. It's hard to keep any faith in humanity when a nation that is supposed to be the paragon of freedom has fallen so far.

[Guest RainBird]

What has happened to us as a nation? It never fails to make me cry when I see or hear a statement like this, good people afraid to voice a simple opinion for fear of oppressive action. It's hard to keep any faith in humanity when a nation that is supposed to be the paragon of freedom has fallen so far.

I'm voting for the NT Liberal Party this year, Labour been a little slack with youth crime and the removal of drunken itinerants from our public parks.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I'm probably not going to vote...I just turned 18 this year, so this would be my first election to vote in, but the candidates I was supporting are no longer running I was behind Ron Paul all the way, and before that I was planning to vote for Hillary, until she became very aggressive and always seemed angry about the way her campaign was going..she kinda acted like a sore loser. Dr. Paul was the candidate I agreed with the most, though, and I was not able to vote in the primaries, but even if I was I wouldn't think of registering Republican just so I can vote for Ron Paul. One of Ron Paul's main principles was following he Constitution, instead of changing it around to make government too powerful for this country's own good. This is rather ironic because the electoral college was not in the Constitution, it was developed later (I think it may have even been developed recently), yet Dr. Paul would have had a much better chance at being elected without the electoral college (i.e. if we followed the Constitution more closely rather than making up our own rules.) I think I'll start voting when I feel like I'll actually be able to vote for who I want to vote for, rather than voting for one candidate so that the other doesn't get elected (in this case, I would vote for Obama just because I can't stand McCain, whereas Obama I really don't have much of an opinion about either way)..but I don't think it should work that way.

[Guest silverpetals]

I think I'll start voting when I feel like I'll actually be able to vote for who I want to vote for, rather than voting for one candidate so that the other doesn't get elected (in this case, I would vote for Obama just because I can't stand McCain, whereas Obama I really don't have much of an opinion about either way)..but I don't think it should work that way.

it shouldn't.

but hey, that's modern 'democracy' for you.

i'm really beginning to understand why people don't vote.

the world is just such a mess. every opportunity and every promise to bring change just results in us following our own footprints looking for a way out. the same things are repeated, but in different ways, and that's 'progress' apparently. ugh, what's the point, everything's so screwed up. i'm going to bed now...