Progesterone...doctors...

[Guest DaniTS]

ok, sorry i havent posted in a while (october) but alots happened and getting really frustrated...ok, sorry...Ive been on hrt for 6 months and my plan was to start Progesterone when my breats started developing which they have, so i talked to my dr about it and she shot me down immediately, like literally the second i brought it up like i didnt know what i was talking about. This was 2 months ago and im seeing her again next week and i really want to get on it but i dunno what to do with her, I mean she said like the only reason id need it was if i had a uterus but transgirls get prescribed it all the time. Sorry, Im just really frustrated, I mean I know what I want and I know what im doing but she talked to me like I was dumb and stupid. I mean, in most cases it enhances estrogen's effects right? So, what should I do if ANY of that made sense i dunno...

Ok, I know Im sounding a "little" crazy right now but Ive planned to get on it since before I started hrt so I know i want to get on it i know the positives and negatives and I know its kind of hit and miss so im pretty sure i know what im talking about. I have alot to talk about obviously but this isnt the section to do it in so what do you guys and girls think i should do?

Sorry if its too much venting for this topic, feel free to put this in another section...

[Guest JaniceW]

Dani,

The use of progesterone in HRT is up for debate among the doctors. Some doctors feel it is indicated and others feel it is not. There is NO clinical evidence thus far to indicate one way or the other what effect, if any, progesterone has for HRT. Endocrinology and the effect of hormones (all hormones not just sex hormones) on the body is a very complex process riddled with interactions between many different substances. You say you want progesterone, I would ask why? What is the effect that you expect that progesterone is going to give you that you are not already getting from your current med regime? What are you not getting from the your current med regime?

Any drug, or hormone, that you take has both beneficial and non-beneficial effects. We take the durgs to get the beneficial effect and we try to avoid the non-beneficial effects. If a drug, or hormone, has no beneficial effect to offer us over what we are already taking then there is really no need to take that drug or hormone.

I would suggest a different approach with your doctor, instead of telling them that you ant progesterone why not ask them what they think of progesterone's role in HRT? Get their thinking on the issue, find out why they will or will not prescribe it for you. If you disagree with their thinking you can find yourself a new doctor that is more in line with your thinking on this issue.

[Guest SarahM]

There are lots of endocrinologists that won't prescribe progesterone except under unusual circumstances - they only use an anti-androgen and an estrogen. Can't link the whole article because it contains dosages, but this is from the guidelines for HRT care for my area (BC, Canada):

"Progestins

The inclusion of progestins in MTF feminizing therapy is controversial. Some clinicians believe progestins are necessary for full nipple development. However, a clinical comparison of feminization regimens with and without progestins found that the addition of progestins neither enhanced breast growth nor lowered serum levels of free testosterone. There are concerns regarding potential adverse effects of progestins (including weak androgen receptor stimulation, depression, weight gain, and lipid changes), and the findings of the Women’s Health Initiative study (increased risk of coronary heart disease, stroke, pulmonary embolism, and invasive breast cancer in postmenopausal women taking combined estrogen and progestin HRT) are also noteworthy. Many of the clinical protocols reviewed did not include progestins, and some clinicians explicitly recommended against their use. Others included medroxyprogesterone acetate as part of their basic feminizing regimen.

We do not recommend progestin unless further androgen suppression effects are required after maximum estrogen doses, or the patient cannot tolerate an estrogen-based regimen."

To summarize: progestrone is dangerous and it is unclear whether it has any positive effect. It also has a tendency to make people a little crazy. If you have your heart set on it, try another endo. You aren't likely to change your current doctor's mind.

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

Tastes great.......Less filling..........

LOL...

1/2 the doctors do and 1/2 the doctors don't....

I've been on it for some time now and I take it every day...the first weeks I almost lost my mind..it made me absolutely crazy...I was going to call my doc and tell her that I was quitting it, but, it calmed down....

But, after about a year on it, I really don't see any noticeable difference....

I'm not sure that it's doing anything at all...

I wasn't on it at first and I asked my doc and she said..."Ok, some girls want it..."

So she gave me the 'script....

I'm personally not sure that it's all worth it, though....

Huggs

Donna Jean

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I am on medroxyprogesterone ten days of the month. It's an experiment to induce PMS - grin. I got impossibly sad sometimes the first year during the beginning and the end of the ten days. I do have great breast development but I don't know for sure if it was the progesterone. I did not notice any bad effects other than the sadness

I did try not taking it at the first of the month - for two sessions. I did not get any fullness in my breasts like I usually got, so I went back on it, and the fullness changes began again after another month, but it could be coincidental. I am staying on it, but I have been on HRT 26 months exactly as of today.

I hope this helps.

Lizzy

[Guest Michele H]

Unlike Lizzy, we are very close in age (I am SO Jelous) and despite also coming from a family of C & better woman, I have had virtually NO breast development and finally admitted defeat and got implants. The combination of Progesterone and Estrogen proved to be the best combination for controlling depression, however - which is contrary to most women's experience. I quit taking Progesterone this January because I can no longer afford it. I am doing OK without it, but it IS harder to keep my moods from going down the drain and I cry WAY more.

[Guest DaniTS]

HI again. Ok, Its not that Im unhappy with development cuz i'm only 6 months in. I didnt expect much by now and frankly Ive gotten more development than I thought I would by now but I wanted to get on it to maximize estrogens effects in the long term. But what gets me so upset is she wouldnt even discuss it with me, like AT ALL. From what I understand, doctors are supposed to have an open discussion about it but she wouldnt even do that. Am I right about that or am I wrong about all this?

One other thing, is that how Im coming off about all thie, like, me being unhappy with development cuz she thought that too but that totally not what its about. Maybe its just a misunderstanding...

Anyway, THanks for replying and dealing with my craziness, like, really, thanks =)

[Drea]

But what gets me so upset is she wouldnt even discuss it with me, like AT ALL.

Maybe its nothing to do with you specifically. If she is someone who has worked with many trans patients perhaps she has found that it doesn't matter what she says. That no matter what the concerns are about progestins like SarahM posted, patients still insist they are missing out on something important.

[guest]

From what I understand, doctors are supposed to have an open discussion about it but she wouldnt even do that. Am I right about that or am I wrong about all this?

I would have insisted on it and not let her continue until she had answered my questions. Doctors aren't there to just do things to you without needing to explain why... you aren't some test subject for them to play with You always have a right to an explanation (and if it is filled with medical terms, tell them to tone it down into terms you can understand).

[Paula ult]

My endo that has been treating trans patients for over 20 years does not think it is necessary, we had that talk, he says of the patients that he has prescribed it to he saw no evidence that there was any change, he would prescribe it to me if i asked.

Paula

[Guest JaniceW]

Dani,

Keep in mind that the reaction we get is often a result of how we possed the question. Notice the difference between;

"I would like a prescription for progesterone?" versus "What are your thoughts about progesterone in HRT?" the first is a yes or no question and a busy doctor will simply give the yes or the no, the second is asking for information and will get a much longer and more thought out response.

[Guest Lacey Lynne]

By sheer, blind, dumb luck, I ended up having my HRT administered by one of the top doctors in the country (U.S.A) for administering HRT to transsexuals. She helped establish the protocol nationwide. She is herself a fully-transitioned MTF transsexual. She also started and principally owns the medical practice. It has about 40 doctors +/- (They come and go, so it varies). My point?

She refuses to give me any type of progesterone. She said its risks far outweigh its benefits and that its benefits are questionable at best in MTF transsexuals. I believe her and accept this advice. Progesterones DO have effects in genetic girls. They affect their uteri cycling and fertility. They are NOT meant for us. Sorry. Just the plain truth.

Moreover, it just comes down to genetics, honey. Look at Lizzy. The genetics is there for her. (Rock ON, Babes!!!) Others on here, myself very much included, have not been similarly blessed. That's just the way it is. I don't know if this will work, but look at this link. This is an image of The Hilton Sisters (Paris and Niki).

If this link actually works, you can see them there. Well, look at their bodies. I look moreorless exactly like they do ... lithe, lean and lissome ... that's genetics. Check 'em out:

Personally, I believe your doctor has a half-fannied bedside manner. No need for her to be rude. However, many licensed, degreed professionals are, because they think they are so much smarter than we are. Like, if they only knew. Okay. Fine. Cool. Like, whatever. Let 'em think it.

No, girl, progesterone probably will not do you much good ... other than mood enhancement as described above. Thanks, everybody, for your marvelous answers. You girls rock!

Best of Luck!

Lacey

Edited February 11, 2011 by MaryEllen
Link showing nudity removed per rule 3 of the site Terms and Conditions

[Drea]

Keep in mind that the reaction we get is often a result of how we possed the question.

I absolutely agree with this. Demands will often get negative reactions.

[Guest Lacey Lynne]

@ Moderator MaryEllen:

Hon, kindly permit me to say, with all due respect, that it was altogether and wholly unnecessary to remove the link from my post above.

Paris Hilton & Niki Hilton were just in bikinis, hon! One can go to any swimming pool or any beach and see scads and scads and scads of young women in bikinis. A girl in a bikini is neither lewd nor lascivious.

While I realize that I risk expulsion from this site by saying this to you publicly, I shall not recant this statement. Yes, Laura Amato wants this to be a PG-13 website, and I both respect and understand that inasmuch as it is her website. However, so stringent and regressive is the definition of what constitutes a PG-13 website that it is akin to the Puritans and Quakers of of New England and Pennsylvania in the 1600s in the United States.

Know this:

All of you may expell me from this website; however, it will be your loss. Frankly, I have a fund of knowledge and a depth of insight than can great help people on here who really need the help, and you will be hard-pressed indeed to find anyone who can match it. Absurd arrogance? No. Plain truth.

Guys and gals, rather than rather than being 1951, this is 2011. We would better serve the membership by presenting the world as it actually is. A picture of two sisters in bikinis will hardly conjure The Wrath of God upon us. As the old saying goes, "A picture is worth a thousand words." Truer words were never spoken.

Yes, I understand your rules. Yes, I understand their rationale. Yes, I understand your intentions.

We ask the general society to accept us as transsexuals which requires an astronomical quantum leap in perception for most people, and yet we brand women in bikinis as nudity. Ladies, honestly now ... please.

For nearly 30 years, I've gone to clothing-optional resorts and can unreservedly and unabashedly tell you that there is nothing whatsoever either obscene or sinful about the human body. Only thinking makes it so. Notice that all the rest of God's animals on this good, green Earth do not wear clothes. Think about that.

Peace & Godspeed

Lacey Lynne

[Guest Donna Jean]

Yes, I understand your rules. Yes, I understand their rationale. Yes, I understand your intentions.

Peace & Godspeed

Lacey Lynne

Lacey, Honey......

I was a cop once....and sometimes I had to bust someone that broke a law that I may not agree with...it was my job, though....

Being a Mod is my job....

And in this case, the law says.....

b. Users should remember this board is aimed at a general audience so postings should be directed at a G or PG rating level.

Posting pornographic, indecent or offensive text, images, links or other content will not be tolerated. This includes nudity or "underwear" imagery. Bikini or speedo shots are unacceptable. All images must be fully clothed. These will be removed as soon as a Moderator is (made) aware of them!

I'm not here tonight to argue "right or wrong" on the issue, it's like arguing with a cop if a law is right or wrong...it's not their job to make the laws...

Please be like you said above.....

"Yes, I understand your rules. Yes, I understand their rationale. Yes, I understand your intentions."

Thanks, Love

Huggs

Donna Jean

[Guest Elizabeth K]

All of you may expell me from this website; however, it will be your loss. Frankly, I have a fund of knowledge and a depth of insight than can great help people on here who really need the help, and you will be hard-pressed indeed to find anyone who can match it. Absurd arrogance? No. Plain truth.

Honey, no. That statement is arrogance.

And one of the first rules in business is to understand, 'no one is irreplaceable', and similarly, 'anyone can be replaced'. Of course you can be of great help. Of course you have insight. Almost all of us do. You may want to calm down a bit and consider this, do you desire to be considered as a disruptive force here on Laura's by criticizing long established rules? Or do you want to be like most all of us, more interested in performing the mission here of help, support, and suicide prevention - regardless if we believe in those rules or not.

It may be time to look at the hard things you said. I have said similar things on Laura's. and I always regretted losing my temper when I did. I have always come back and tried to do better.

But you are certainly not irreplaceable and I suspect deep down you really know that.

Just my take on all this.

Lizzy

[guest]

We ask the general society to accept us as transsexuals which requires an astronomical quantum leap in perception for most people, and yet we brand women in bikinis as nudity. Ladies, honestly now ... please.

I have noticed this also... trans people being actually far more prude-ish than non-trans. Sex and relationships and totally normal things being taboo.

I tried to post a picture of a GUY without a shirt (looked like he had been swimming) and it was moderated...

[Guest Donna Jean]

I have noticed this also... trans people being actually far more prude-ish than non-trans. Sex and relationships and totally normal things being taboo.

I tried to post a picture of a GUY without a shirt (looked like he had been swimming) and it was moderated...

I really don't understand why people are having such a hard time understanding the rules of this site.

They're written in plain english.

Everyone is asked to read them when they join the site and then click a little button that says that they have done so...

The rules are re-explained time and again by the mods and the admins here...

The rules are in place for a purpose....each and every one has a reason and a purpose and while you may not agree, you said that you would abide by them.

There is a link to the rules (Terms & Conditions) at the top of every page. If you want to know what is allowed, just click and read!

LAURA MAKES THE RULES AND IT IS HER HOUSE...

You don't come into someone's home and start moving their furniture around because you don't like where it's setting!

Donna Jean

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I have noticed this also... trans people being actually far more prude-ish than non-trans. Sex and relationships and totally normal things being taboo.

NOT ME!

But I do want to help others here on Laura's. And it's really only possible by keeping this site as special as it is, and... well... following the terms and conditions.

We all agreed to them when we joined, did we not?

My sweet and humble opinion...

Lizzy

Personally? I LIKE my new sexuality! I just don't parade it around here. We Southern Ladies have our standards, and we avoid discussing those 'certain things' in public. A Lady in public, a ----- behind clothed doors. It's only proper. Tee Hee

[Guest DaniTS]

Thank you everyone!

Youve been so patient and understanding with me, just, really, thanks!! It means A LOT to me!

Hugs all-round!!!

Avira T-S