Feminine Ftms

[Guest Orva26]

Hello,

So being more familiar with the MtF side of things I know that a big message I propagate and one that I have gotten here which I believe is good is that just like ciswoman transwoman have a natural variance of how feminine they are. Basically it is okay to transition to being a "tom-boy" or to being a "girly-girl" and anything in between.

I don't know how much that message is propagated by my counterparts here though. And now to the meat of my message:

I recently went to a conference about transgenderism in my state and several of the speakers I saw were transmen. However I only KNEW one was trans ahead of time. The other two struck me as feminine gay males. I had no clue they were actually transmen until they mentioned it themselves. I guess the point is that even being at a conference about transgenderism seeing the feminine mannerism they showed did not set off some kind of alarms of, "Okay so they are trans." rather I was perceiving them as male so if you're worried about showing any tiny bit of femininity and people figuring out your trans I'd say you are mistaken. And if you happen to be a feminine man and that is who you are, GO FOR IT!

<3

Orva

[Guest some ftm guy]

hey thanks Orva26! I'm not REALLY feminine or macho either I'm more in between or gender neutral acting i suppose but it's cool to see there's someone who's met feminine trans men and couldn't tell they were trans and didn't think they were girls. i kinda flame occasionally i guess, with a few hand gestures and i wonder how that'll develop when I'm on T.

[Guest Dibz]

Hey, thanks for the post. I do plan on being a little feminine, even though I mostly prefer the opposite. I mean, isn't part of the transgenderism movement to not conform to gender stereotypes?

[Guest Taran]

And if you happen to be a feminine man and that is who you are, GO FOR IT!

<3

Orva

Thank you so much for that. Seriously. That means a huge amount for me. I'm still relatively early on this path, and trying to figure things out...a lot of the time, I really do feel like a feminine man, it's really validating to know that's ok. So, thanks.

[Guest Orva26]

I mean, isn't part of the transgenderism movement to not conform to gender stereotypes?

Hmmm... well yeah. I mean our existence implodes the most basic "gender" sterotype ever; the arbitrary and silly penis means boy, vagina means girl we all get slapped with at birth.

Buuuuuut I would say don't do anything for this reason, don't do anything just for the sake of non-conformity. Rather do stuff because you wanna do it and its who you are.

[Guest CariadsCarrot]

Thank you Orva. Seriously, thank you. You've got no idea how much I needed to hear that. I'm still pretty new to all this and have all kinds of confusing and contradictory thoughts that go round in my head and hearing that helps.

I said to a friend recently when we were talking about gender stuff that I'm either a total tomboy or a totally camp guy! Ok so I'm coming to the conclusion it's the guy one...but yeah I like cute things and painting my nails (black not girly colours so I guess I'm an emo kinda guy) and artistic stuff and writing expressively...I even like shopping for girly clothes so long as it's my partner not me who's gonna wear them! Then there's all the guy stuff I DON'T like, like watching sports and drinking and although I love bikes and played with cars as a kid I can't have a proper knowledgeable conversation about either of them to save my life!

I feel like I wouldn't fit in well as a guy even though I feel more comfortable being one.

I think it's more socially acceptable being a tomboy than a feminine guy...so yeah being reminded that it's still ok to be that feminine guy is important. Thank you.

Gabe

[Guest Orva26]

Aw, your welcome fellas!

Its interesting though, there is overlap between me and you Gabe. I enjoy bikes and cars too and most colors I look for in terms of polish haven't really been super vibrant or "girly". I actually have some new black polish that I haven't gotten around to applying because I've been so insanely busy and drained as a result of my job. I think I might go hog wild with it tomorrow since no one should really bug me if they see it.

[Guest Awhman]

It's good to hear this

You know, one of the only things I miss about being my old self is the choice you have in clothing. I want to dress in a more eccentric, rhinestoned, sparkley and I guess more feminine kind of way, but it's so magnificently hard to find guys clothing like that that doesn't cost a bomb.

When I told one of my friends I was trans he responded by laughing and joking that I must be the gayest guy ever, whilst brushing some glitter off of my face.... It's goos to know I'm not alone with this.

[JJ]

Thank you. Good thread.

Sometimes we forget, and sometimes want to I suppose, that the estrogen in our bodies has caused our brains to make new connections. Even before birth I believe the current speculation says. Some believe that is why we average 30-40 points higher in intelligence-our braiins have been forced to make extra connections for a hormone they were not created to use in any quantity. So we are in fact more than just male. Not less male because of it. It doesn't rewrite the male thinking and identity parts of our brain, just that we become males with an added access to female wiring too. Then we are socialized to use that and how sad and foolish it would be to throw away or reject this extra gift we have!

The same is of course true for MtFs

I can and do react and think male. Always have and it has caused me problems all my life. But I can bring in verbal skills and nurturing and detail awareness more typical of a female brain. I actually like it.

And if that makes me also like wear bolder colors or dramatic clothes-I wish the everyday world was dressed from either Steampunk or the Romantic age with the Age of Chivalry thrown in for formal occasions-so be it. I am not a normal male. Won't be after transition. I intend to be seen as male-live as my nature dictates but I will be more, have more rounding of viewpoint and thinking, extra gifts from being trans. I plan to embrace every one of those gifts. I paid for them.

I paid for them and the price was high. Now I will enjoy them for all they are worth. And no insecurity about my masculinity or male stereotype is going to stop me.

[Guest Areyan]

yay, i'm a femme-guy! i agree with JJ here about how our brains have been wired. unbelievable how many people there are just like me in this world. i thought for the longest time i was alone with all of these "talents" and intelligence that was going to waste on being forced into my natal gender role.

thanks all of you for such a great thread. i personally dun care how "gay" it makes me look to love my long hair and fey looks, i'm proud of my straight orientation and have nothing against anyone else's so if people mistake me for being someone i'm not it wouldn't be a first, lol. i'm sure many of you relate to this feeling.

[Guest Taran]

Go for it, Areyan!

JJ: Your words are truly inspiring. (And that comes out sounding awkward, but I mean it.) I seriously knew almost none of the science-y bit, would you mind terribly passing on where you got that from? I'd like to read up on it... And you raise a vital point. I mean, what's the point in going to the trouble of defying stereotypes for the sake of one's own identity if one only tries to squish oneself into the opposite identity, just because it's a closer fit? I mean, at this point we're already barefoot...isn't it best to just make our own shoes?

(And personally...Victorian gentleman's getup. Ohhh yeah. )

[Guest Michael Heather]

This is so true.

I've always connected more with the effeminate type of guy, but that doesn't make me any less of a man. This is the reason for my desicion to, when I start growing a beard, shave it all off, keep my hair long and potentially grow it longer (though that has more to do with my metal image) and wear slightly androgynous clothing.

I could even consider crossdressing when I've had my top surgery, in fact me and my girlfriend have already made plans for us two to glomp one of our more manly (female) friends when wearing lolita dresses, as frilly and girly as you can get.

Then again, I come from a very non-stereotyped household. Mum teaches maths and computer programming, paints the house and mends things, dad (before they divorced) did all the laundry and most of the cooking. My sister is more androgynous than anything, and my brother is so secure in his masculinity and who he is that he doesn't shy away from crossdressing when the situation requires it (he played Angel when his school put up a production of RENT), knows how to walk in 6'' high heels and wears a skirt when it's too warm for pants. (This is a kilt, granted, but it still counts!)

So I guess I've been growing up with not conforming to stereotypes (though I did break away from that when I tried to convince myself I was a girl). I squeal just as often as my girlfriend (even though she's manlier than me most of the time XD), love hugs and fluffy things, and I'm afraid I'll never get the "guy-walk" right as I feel that I swing my hips way too much.

Thanks for cheering us feminine guys on, dear!

[Guest Damond]

yay! I have always been into the femme emo boy style and what not. Really, I seem to dress more like and emo boy than a girl, but I was concerned about how that would work--like what's the point of being a fem boy if I can just be a girl? But I can be a bit more confident in that now^^

[Guest Rowan19]

I have the androdgynous thing about me, even my voice is fairly so. Hn. I like guyliner, my mates say it makes me look like a girl tough. Wouldn't if I got the back of my hair cut shorter.

[KieranD]

There's a blog for that...

There's also a blog for butch trans women...

[Guest ShortyT]

I'm far from a feminine guy, but I do have some effeminate mannerisms that probably leads some people to think I'm gay... which I am, so that's fine.

[Guest Rowan19]

There's a blog for that...

There's also a blog for butch trans women...

O.o Holy cow! One of them looked like a badly done up Jeffree Star! How can a transman go around wearing a skirt?? Doesn't that kinda defeat the whole purpose of having a male brain? I'm no where near that kind of feminine looking!

[Guest ShortyT]

There's a blog for that...

There's also a blog for butch trans women...

O.o Holy cow! One of them looked like a badly done up Jeffree Star! How can a transman go around wearing a skirt?? Doesn't that kinda defeat the whole purpose of having a male brain? I'm no where near that kind of feminine looking!

That's an interesting statement, right there. So who determines what clothing goes with a male/female brain? Or accessories or make-up? Many would say "What's the point of transitioning if you're gonna wear make-up anyway?" - as if wanting to wear some eye-liner or what have you erases the thing in your core being that tells you what gender you are (or aren't).

Many men, cis men or trans men, straight men or gay men, enjoy messing around with gender presentation. That doesn't take away from them feeling - or being - all male.

And what's wrong with skirts anyways? I think men in skirts are hot.

[KieranD]

There's a blog for that...

There's also a blog for butch trans women...

O.o Holy cow! One of them looked like a badly done up Jeffree Star! How can a transman go around wearing a skirt?? Doesn't that kinda defeat the whole purpose of having a male brain? I'm no where near that kind of feminine looking!

Ummm...if cis men can wear skirts, dresses and make up then why can't trans men? I don't see/understand your point.

[JJ]

It seems to me from the perspective of where I am now, that we have a couple of choices here. We can decide to be what dual hormones and cross socialization has made us-Unique men with an understanding, and appreciation even at times, of female things or we can reject that extra information and perspective and re-socialize strictly as men. Actually like gender I believe it is also a spectrum and we can choose to express ourselves anywhere along it.

Which is an individual preference and not something to be condemned. We of all people should be willing to accept and support individual choices.

If I had not been born female bodied I would not have known so much that I do about life as a woman or perhaps been allowed to appreciate qualities in myself that society labels as female right now. But I do know and do enjoy certain aspects that I don't want to change. I'm willing to pay the price for that. Because anytime we step outside the gender expression norms there will be a price. I won't be perceived by others, who can't begin to understand my situation, as being as male or manly because of it. Fine. I am a man. And I know that. But I am a man in touch with my inner self and feelings far more than I believe most are socialized to be right now. Being trans caused that. Living female bodied I was also socialized to be in touch with my feelings and express them and finally going through transition is forcing me to know myself as nothing else could. I could push that down and put a lid on it. Would perhaps have to do so to be seen as a regular guy around here. But I have no intention of doing so.

Lastly I have some female characteristics from my background but I am not feminine. I never was and never will be. If some are that's fine-and their privilege-but there is a vast difference for me between female and feminine. I appreciate aspects of the one but just can't get my head around the other.

If you need to deny all things female and live a a manly man in every way then go for it. You have to please yourself, but it seems to me that the real way to happiness is to accept and express and celebrate yourself as you are. Not physically-but in your core, your soul. For me that means being a man but more, much more. The socialization and characteristics that don't fit me are falling away. And the things that are part of me are not. I like it.

Johnny

[Guest Orva26]

Yay!

I'm going to spending time on both of those blogs! I like it when trans-people are comfortable enough in their gender identity to have fun, rather be free in their gender expression. Personally I live in a state of being a butch mtf. Kinda hard to call it boy mode when it is androgynous female clothing I'm rocking and just letting people read me which every way their brain takes them. Though that usually tends to be male. >_<

One thing I thought about is a lot of trans people I've meet seem to want to transition to the "normal" but personally I don't see a reason to....

Why transition to normal instead of extraordinary?

I know that's where I'm going.

[Guest ShortyT]

Why transition to normal instead of extraordinary?

Well, people transition to be themselves and just like in the rest of the population, some of us are extravagant, extraordinary, eccentric etc, while some of us are just "normal" or "boring" as some would call it. I'm in the latter camp myself, and quite comfortable with that. It's just who I am.

[Guest Orva26]

Didn't mean to imply anything. I can appreciate the goals of others but personally I can transition to be normal 'cause I'm just plain not.

To each their own.

This femme FtM blog is making me real happy though some real cuties there.

[Guest Rowan19]

Suppose that's just me, the odd thing is I'm a little bit normal as a guy. O.o

I don't like being normal though, it's strange for me.

[KieranD]

I don't really see being a masculine man as being "normal." It implies that being a feminine man is abnormal.