A Male Trait?

[~Nova~]

My roommate and I went to a larger group meeting last night. It was run by a gender therapist. She does it pro Bono just to help the TG communtity. And tonhelp promote her business and books, but I'll just say it's out of the goodness of her heart.

The group is always built on a theme of the day. She picks one person and they tell the group what issues they may have been having and we all try to give advice and listen. The GT keeps a pretty tight reign on what we can say and will stopmus if we get to therapist... Of course we all know everything.

The issue of the day was the spouse of the girl transitioning was asked to sit in on her SRS. The wife said no, she couldn't do it. It wasn't the gore, but the thought that it was the final straw was to much fer her to witness. This couple is divorcing, but the TS thought it would be nice to have her watch. She refused and we discussed her feelings.

My ex, now roommate spoke up. She said that she felt betrayed. I didn't say anything, she can say whatever she wants, it's her feelings. However, I did ask the therapist a question and this is where I got lost...

I asked the. GT how I could help her not feel betrayed. What she told me was shocking.

She told me to be careful and that what I was doing was letting my male traits take over. Trying to take care of her. Keep her safe, be the male in the relationship. Females don't try and protect and comfort those that they love? I looked at her like she had 8 heads. She went on about something else which wasn't relevant to this.

What say you oh wise members of Laura's, was that my male side coming through?

Nova

[Guest Donna Jean]

...

I asked the. GT how I could help her not feel betrayed. What she told me was shocking.

She told me to be careful and that what I was doing was letting my male traits take over. Trying to take care of her. Keep her safe,

Nova

Well, Hon......

I'm no therapist, but, I feel that caring and concern for someone's safety is a human trait....not just male or female......

Eh, but what do I know? I voted for George McGovern.....

Huggs

Donna Jean

[~Nova~]

I thought so too. I mean she was my wife of 20years and we still love each other. Sure, we aren't husband and wife, but we are best friends. I don't wanna see her hurt.

OTOH, I can see where ther therapist is coming from. It was my duty to protect for 20 years, maybe it's time for me not to protect, but understand and help now?

Sorry for all the typos. I'm on my iPad and my fingers aren't good on the keyboard.

Nova

[Guest Captain Troy]

Lolwat. Caring and being protective are manly traits? That must be why Molly Weasley from Harry Potter, Mother Teresa, lionesses, and my sister are all actually men. Does anybody see the logic in this? There's a reason they talk about Mama Grizzly Bears. Women can be just as fierce and protective as men. Your therapist may need to check her own preconceived notions about gender.

[JJ]

Dunno for sure but I will say that whenever someone is using a metaphor for protective, regardless of the actual circumstances, you hear the one about a tigress and her cubs or something similar every time. Is there one for males? Can't think of one.

When we love or care about some one, and even more when we let someone care for us, then we take responsibility for the impact of our actions on that person. Besides for the most part that old "man of the house", women's protector thing has faded away in our society anyway as women have become empowered in their own right. The therapist was off base it seems to me and reacted to outdated gender stereotypes.

Johnny

[Guest Miss_Construe]

To me it sounds like your therapist was trying to con you into not providing support for your ex. If caring for and protecting a loved one is a male trait then every female I have encountered is a deeply closeted trans-man.

I agree that your ex is best left to her own devices since you trying to take care of her is disrespecting her wishes to separate.

I don't know why she felt betrayed herself with the given information but it sounds like something she would need to work out a bit more herself before anyone could really do more than just listen to her. Once again, you should not be taking care of or protecting your ex anything. That road leads to elongating the pain and suffering both of you are experiencing. trust me.

<3

Amy

[Guest Shari]

Nova,

I don't think being kind and wanting to help another person has much to do with gender. It has everything to do with humanity.

BTW Dee Jay, a long long time ago a family member was missing and was held captive in Cuba. George McGovern stepped in to help us and provided an important link between the various governments and my family. If you voted for George, you helped (be happy about it).

Nova, if you're a caring person, follow your heart. If you have the capacity to help another, and ease their burden, why not just do it?

Hugs,

Shari

[Guest]

Hi Nova,

I suppose that men will stand in harm's way to protect someone, where women would provide nurturing support. It's a fine line between the two - I couldn't decide.

And, when it all comes down to it, I want to be me. Not the woman of the GT's mental image, but the me that trusts her instincts and does what's right. Call it M or F, they're just empty labels!

Love, Kat

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I voted twice for Ross Perrot!

Against the grain a bit here.

I think the GT was setting you up to NOT act so much the husband, not necessarily the 'man' as you interpreted it. The wife of a MTF will often use the 'you betrayed me' card when discussing transitioning. A husband's first instinct is to feel 'he' betrayed a trust between 'him' as a man and her as a woman.

Actually, you have always been a woman and her attraction to you really included this part of your nature. You may have suspected you were gender dysphoric when you married, but either you thought you could overcome it or hide it - 'becoming' a manly husband.

Well, it didn't work out that way.

The therapist is possibly saying don't feel like a 'manly husband.' You are what you are, and that is okay. Deal with your wife's grief and resentment, as you should, but from your own self, in the womanly manner you already possess. Don't let your wife 'blackmail' you.

I went through this already. Wives will use the, 'You are the husband! How dare you change now" to make you feel so guilty it can impede your healing - what you need to do now that you understand what you are.

This caused me two suicide attempts, before I realized what was going on. Now I know my ex wife as she really is - a bit selfish. She loved me because she thought I was, 'a man who could protect her.' There was no love for me as a person - although I adored her.

The GT is correct, I think, it was an attempt to tell you to let go of the 'manly husband' part of yourself. You have to be what you are, and that does NOT mean you cannot try to help her. But she needs to understand what you are now doing is from YOU, not some person she imagined you were.

Lizzy

[Guest Shari]

Nova,

Reading Amy's response got my brain moving. I think the distinction is whether you are responsible or not. My GT taught me that I would never be completely happy if I continued to be responsible for everyone else's happiness. Her point was that, I should help if I can but at the end of the day it's the other person's responsibility to be happy, or comfortable or whatever. If they choose not to be happy, then I have not failed.

Shari

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Nova,

Reading Amy's response got my brain moving. I think the distinction is whether you are responsible or not. My GT taught me that I would never be completely happy if I continued to be responsible for everyone else's happiness. Her point was that, I should help if I can but at the end of the day it's the other person's responsibility to be happy, or comfortable or whatever. If they choose not to be happy, then I have not failed.

Shari

There is that.

But what if you love someone, and your actions caused that person to suddenly become very unhappy. To say you have no responsibility for that change is impossible. I agree though, if you work with them and they refuse to try to cope, THAT is not your fault.

Lizzy

[Guest Aly Kat]

imho, gender is in the eye of the beholder.

girl and a boy do the SAME behavior... the girl is "caring for" and the boy is "protecting"...umm???

and s/he said, "Hey! Could you take off your gender goggles? I'm going to be myself, now. k thx bai"

[Guest Amanda W]

i think that therapist was a bit biased. both genders do the same thing.

though the way we say things dictates how one perceives what our intention is.

~amanda

[~Nova~]

All these points are so good. The argument is actually made both ways, which of course clouds int for me, but I am the one that needs to decide where to go.

I may not have been clear and want toeq clear this poiint. My roommate was talking to the girl that won't/doesn't want to watch her ex get the surgery. She said that she, my roommate, felt that I betrayed her. It was a matter of trust, and I broke that trust. she is accepting and is actually being very helpful to me. I want to help her with her feelings, but I understand, and she understands, that I am not her protector anymore.

Now the issue comes where is the line? How do I help her, without protecting her? I understand the therapist, I think more now than I did when she said it. Of conures the responses here have helped guide me. I did hurt her and Incan help point her in the right direction and make her understand, but I can't protector from her feelings. I think that is where the GT was trying tnguide me. She wasn't saying don't help, but don't put my feelings and transition in harms way, as a guy would, to help her.

BTW, this GT, is not my GT. she is just running the group. I go to the group because I have many friends that all go together, then out after. Safety in numbers?

Thank you all, I'm going to have to sit down with Lucy and discuss this. I think that's the best route. I can then direct her in the right direction and let her choose which way she wants to go.

Nova

[Guest Jay09]

honestly, caring and protection are not male traits. granted some males take protection to an extreme rather than some women, just what i have seen in my own experiences. Where as my girlfriend would say something to someone who had hurt me in some way, i would probably warn the person, and if it doesn't stop i would get physical.

Women and Men alike have the caring gene, its human. Its those who do not show emotion and allow people to hurt in front of them that i think are robots. I find that really it is the words that are gender, not the actions. To care and be there for someone, as in female actions would be to talk to your friend and try to calm them down and give them advice. In male terms, (at least i know i do this) i just let the girl cry, i hold her and let her cry and listen. Usually never have the right words to say, but i will say its okay, and continue to listen to them as they cry.

Just my honest opionon the therapist was being gender blind by saying that only males care and protect.

[Guest John Chiv]

Nova,

You have human traits. Therapists even gender therapists can be flawed and don't have all the answers. Please do not change the caring loving woman you are because of other's ignorance and inability to box people.

John

[Guest Melissa 67]

Taking charge, taking control, taking care of, they're all male traits. I would think you would want to get as far a way as you can from using male traits.