An Observation, Some Thoughts

[Guest DSilverfox]

I've been thinking about writing on this for a while, and I apologize if there's already a topic similar to this. I feel like this is an important subject that most people in the trans community overlook, and I feel it needs to be said.

We, as transgender/transsexual individuals born into the wrong skin, should understand that socially, gender shouldn't matter to the extent that the world says it does. Those of us who choose to transition, do so in order to feel complete with our true identity. We do this for our own happiness to live as ourselves, we don't do this for the world. So here's my problem:

I've come across numerous ftms and mtfs, that upon coming out or transitioning, feel the need to 'overly genderize' themselves. By this, I mean I have met several ftms who think it necessary to come off as overly masculine in mannerisms and personality to the extent of changing who they are in order to pass. I've come across several mtfs as well, who in turn think it necessary to overly feminize themselves even if they don't want to for the same reason. I would be lying if I tried to claim that I never went out of my way to pass, but upon thinking about it, is there such a think as trying to pass *too* much?

If we are working toward coming out and being ourselves, then why do so many people begin to lie about who they are by forcing on gender roles that shouldn't matter to begin with? By showing others that even through transitioning we feel the need to lie about a part of ourselves, isn't that the same as someone outside of the community accusing us of lying about who we are?

What i'm trying to say is, that regardless the fact we identify as male or female, I think its' important to remember to be true to yourself. There is nothing wrong with a man with feminine personality traits and there's nothing wrong with a woman who isn't overly feminine. If a man wants to dance for a living, or enjoys fashion, art, whatever the case, that doesn't make him any less of a man. If a woman wants to play sports, drink with her friends, go into business and so on, that doesn't make her any less of a woman. In fact, that confidence to be yourself is what I feel may in the end even aid in you being seen for who you truly are inside. The last thing the world needs is to fall back into the idea that women have to be the 'perfect little housewife who cooks and cleans and is always dolled up and emotional' and men have to be the 'strong, beer drinking, football loving husbands who would rather die than shed a tear'. Forcing yourself to change your personalty to pass in that sense just reinforces sexism and ignorance.

It wasn't my intention to upset anyone by writing this, but I do think it is something that everyone needs to honestly sit down and think about. Wishing to pass is one thing, just don't change who you are and ruin your reasoning for wanting to pass in the first place.

Have pride in yourself.

[Guest Miss_Construe]

I agree. I know I did go a bit far for some time. Partially because I wasn't full time and wanted to squeeze out every ounce of female from those precious hours or minutes. Another reason was to fully explore what exactly was out there in the unexplored regions of my mind. And yet another was to chase away the last remnants of masculinity. Now I have a better idea of who I want to be and have developed range in my identity. That doesn't mean going over the top is out the window, 'cause it ain't. But it does mean I also embrace my sporty side which loves mixing blood and mud (note: a mudblood joke has already been made). I still know how to rebuild an engine and play all those sports. I also know how to sew, put together outfits, design clothes and jewellery and make high pitched squeaky chirp when suprised (actually, that was one thing I could never get rid of when trying to ignore my femininity).

I have observed that in many things people try to do there is no balance. It is either all or nothing.

As I continue in my transition I find my female mind is maturing in its outlook on life. I have more appropriate ways of affirming my femininity than subscribing to what a magazine tells me is feminine. I have found the definition of masculinity is redefined for me thorough this transition as well. For now I don't have a set definition because it seems to be dependant on the man.

april

[Guest Mia J]

I think a lot of us tend to go overboard at times during transition just because we want so much to show we are not that "other" gender. For most of us as time goes by we just slip back into the norm of just being who we are in the gender we really are.

Mia

[Drea]

We, as transgender/transsexual individuals born into the wrong skin, should understand that socially, gender shouldn't matter to the extent that the world says it does.

I've come across numerous ftms and mtfs, that upon coming out or transitioning, feel the need to 'overly genderize' themselves.

Perhaps....there is a duality that exists...that trans folks feel the world that puts too much stake in gender when in actuality it is the trans folks that are far more focused on gender and are gender aware?

[JJ]

How could we not be over sensitized to gender unless we have lived extraordinarily blessed lives as trans? We have paid and paid for our gender differences.

But I think at first we are learning and experimenting and go too far in the same way a teenager exploring their newly emerging identity does. And that may play a role too since most of us had to start denying our true gender just when we should have been exploring it. Nature won't be cheated and eventually a stage has to be gpne through-early or late.

I agree with Mia that eventually that aspect tones down. I know I also have a sense of release to express myself as I have always wanted and couldn't. A lot of years of repression are welling up and in time that will subside as well. But we have to accept I think that we have to resocialize as our true gender and that may in some cases mean changing behavior. Behaviors which may be awkward at first like an adolescent when we are far past the age most master those things. And finally there is a claiming of the gender we are that I think contributes to it. But that said I will not and have not betrayed who I am as a person or what I believe in to be seen as male. I don't think most of us have or will.

Lastly I have been struck since transitioning by just how much greater and more diverse gender differences really are. Every aspect of life is to some extent impacted by gender. I thought I was aware of gender differences before but now realize how much more complex and pervasive it really is. Dauntingly so at times. That doesn't mean buying into stereotypes and oversimplifying things into a man does this and a woman does that. It is far too subtle for that -far too detailed and intricate.

But Drea I know from what I have read and studied and heard reported here as well that eventually we do learn and blend in. Are accepted. The rest? Sometimes just a part of the process, of the journey, for us.

Johnny

[Guest Lacey Lynne]

Hey, know what?

I agree with you completely. This is most certainly so, and I've likewise observe this very same thing.

Worse that that, even, is what I've termed Trans cup cakes. These are transpeople (the ones I've met have all be MTF) who have these very strict standards of what transitioning is and what timetable to follow and how to do it.

I've run into this live and in person twice ... helped these two T-girls (one a whole lot) only to have them resent and then dump me ultimately. Why? Because, I REFUSED to go along with their Trans cup cake trip. Sorry, baby. Lacey ain't gonna play THAT game with anybody at any time.

The point made often and well on these forums recently has been:

We're all different; however, those of us who ARE trans really ARE trans and should proceed apace in our own way in our own time for our own satisfaction. Like Johnny has so often said on these forums, we transition to be comfortable and at peace in our lives. Getting to that point is the hard part. It's been very hard for me, let me tell you.

Trans cup cakes don't like me at all, because I DO NOT follow the usual T-girl script in any way. Megan Rose and her significant other have seen me recently, and will again in the future, and they can tell you that I present as more of a "classy butch" or "girlie androgyne" than as a typical T-girl. Why?

Because, I don't pass. Okay, so I don't. Used to bother me. Doesn't anymore. Heck with 'em all. I happily take my HRT everyday and if "classy butch"/"girlie androgyne" is as far as I can ever go, then let it be so. If that's the best I can do in my transition, then let it be so.

Honey, I'm gonna take my HRT and dress in girle clothes my way, and that's that. Guess some would say I'm a very public cross-dresser. Nope. I'm on HRT and have been for a while, actually. I'm transsexual.

People used to laugh, giggle, gossip, etcetera, a lot actually. However, not so much anymore. Nothing has changed ... except my attitude. Then, I was apprehensive. Now, I'm in command. I walk around like I own the place ... everywhere I go.

Is there a lesson here?

Thanks for starting this thread. It's a great one! We're grateful you're here. Post more, please!

Oh, yeah, forgot to tell ya one little thing:

Rock ON!

Lacey Lynne

[Guest EvenClose]

I don't really know much about all this gender talk stuff. I really don't understand it very well. I have tried and tried, but I just don't get it.

I have taken the last 6 months and been pretty much reclusive. I started my girly pills and I thought to myself, "Ok if you say your a girl then it shouldn't be hard to just be yourself right?" I took that concept and I ran with it. I didn't have to see people or go to work anymore and straight freak out because I worked with 40 guys. I just sat around and worked on me. Not anything to do with passing.

At least not appearance wise.

I had to ask myself a lot of questions, and come up with answers. Such as, what things do I really like? What kinda clothing do I like and would it really be appropriate. What stuff do I feel society has forced on my to do, to be, to say.

It was hard, cause if you are who you say you are then being YOU should be able to come naturally, right?

So how do you find the real you...That was the question. I kept stripping away all the things I felt were unneccesary. I use to worry about what i said might come off as too chic, or the way I walked, how I moved my hands, how i sat, chiming in on conversations that actually sparked my interest. Eventually I came to a point where I was just kinda confused. Maybe passing is just something we make up in order to give us a goal to strive toward? I don't know.

It feels like the concept of passing is just hard for me to understand. Voice is the hard one. That is actually something I had to change to sound appropriate. It wasn't hard in changing tone or pitch and that kinda thing. But I just felt like It was something I had to try to do versus something that came naturally. I didn't like that feeling. So I used that to kinda gauge if my actions and words and such was something I wanted to do or something I somehow felt forced to do to have people's perception of me be more male.

There are probably some things I do that may seem a little out of place, sure..Im not real aware of them if I do them though. Why? Because thats just me being me. I hope I explained this well enough.

I would say do what makes ya happy and all that great stuff but I honestly I don't feel that any of that matters. I mean if you just be yourself, then why wouldn't you be happy. Your transitioning hormonally so people's perception of you will change outwardly. Yes in the process you finally feel like your body is normal for once, and you gotta become comfortable with your skin once again. A huge relief for sure.

But what im saying is, hrt and a little body maintenance will make you appear male/female. So once you quit worrying about that and actually start figuring out who you are versus who you have been forced to be, things are a breeze.

There is lots of things that suck. I get it. Like shopping if you feel your appearance don't match up. Or if your voice is not the best. All that stuff, job, friends and family. etc etc. But forget all that crap. It don't matter any. Those that will be cool with ya will, and if they won't they won't. Life will go on, move along with it. It all starts with just being you. Quit trying to genderize as DSilverfox put it. Just figure out who you are. Don't let bad comments get in your way of being you. And if your not happy with YOU, then guess what? You ain't forced to be/do that.

Don't let that stereotypical crap get in the way either. You can totally be a normal human and not be questioned and still like eating fried crickets or listening to death metal while playing with rubber ducks in the tub. Crap don't matter when you're just you. You will fit in much better if you don't try to be someone else or model after someone. Maybe people will think you are a little different. Thats not a BAD thing. You will be known for being you. Its what seperates each one of us from the next. I bet everyone you know you could say 1 thing that they are known for more than anything else. Maybe its how they dress, maybe its how they talk, eat, drive, care...I don't know, its whatever. But its a good thing. Thats what puts us on the map. Its what makes people remember each other.

Quit stressing over being trans or whatever and just be yourself. Take the time to look in yourself and figure out what the real you is. Don't let society tell you who to be, don't try to be macho or super girly...Unless thats who YOU really are. If you wanna wear suits every day and totally still be a chic...Great! Ellen does it. She don't get questioned. Because she is just being herself.

You gotta do it sooner or later. You don't wanna end up feeling like your pretending all the time or fooling people. If you just be you the feeling of just being you is much better than anything else. Your image will be better, hrt will help. Just don't get caught up in the passing zone. Its really all in our heads I think. Just be yourself.

Find it, do it, be it, live it!

<3 Miranda

[Guest Alexandra89]

I agree that the stereotypical crap shouldn't have as much of a place in transition as it seems to for a vocal minority of trans people.

But the concept of passing is rather important to me for a really big reason: I want other people to see me as I see myself (or, more accurately, as I want to see myself). It's one thing to not care what bigots think, but even people who are okay and even friendly with you can be stuck in the frame of mind where they can only see you as your birth gender or somewhere in between. This is no failing on their part - try and force your perception of someone else's entire identity to change dramatically.

All I really require from people is politeness: outwardly accept my gender identity. I can't tell them to radically alter their outlook on the whole thing any more than they can tell me to not be bothered by what people think of me. It's sewn into the fabric by this point and willing it away is not possible. On some level, it's going to hurt that people will still see me as a guy no matter what. Adopting a "screw 'em if they don't like it" mentality for me is just the equivalent of sticking a band-aid on skin cancer.

[Guest Julie T]

There a a lot of good comments. I have been at transitioning for three years , well, almost. I have been active in the LGBTQ and other organizations and perhaps, uniquely, been living in an area where transpeople are more visible, possibly because the attitudes here are more supportive? But I guess I know over 30-40 transpeople I have met in person. Also two personal friend that live outside Louisiana are TGirls. It seems that many that I have watched, go stealth after 2 or 3 years. In fact the ones who don't go stealth seem to still carry a lot of baggage, or, and this is important, they linger to help others who are following.

To the point? Most of us rather suddenly realize we have become exactly the gender they feel we are, and we disappear into the world. We do this because we leave transsexuality behind. That is what I will do eventually. No posing, no exaggerations, no pretending. I get closer everyday, it just happens. Of course I will carry some old male ways with me. But I will be a woman with a little extra knowledge, that's all.

So the transsexual? Early on so many are terrified of 'passing' (I hate that word) and try to overdo things. But most outgrow that stage, I think, especially when blending in easily as their true self, our true selves That is why the stories here of being 'ma'amed and such are so good, it shows an acceptance, it shows an affirmation.

Julie

[Carolyn Marie]

I agree with your sentiments and ideas, Vince. When I started out, I convinced myself that the only way I could blend in was to dress in skirts and dresses and frilly blouses. As time and experience showed me, I could pass well wearing anything. That gave me the confidence to town things down, and dress appropriately for the situation. I even wear jeans to work now when I don't have a meeting.

As to the other gender-specific things; I don't pay much attention to what is "expected" of a woman. I don't go to chick flicks just because many women do. I find them boring and silly. I still watch sports, I still enjoy working on my truck, and I still have all the same hobbies I had before. I have learned to enjoy and appreciate things I never did before, such as shopping for clothes, but I don't do it because its expected of me, I do it because I enjoy it.

As I've mentioned in other threads, I've told people in my life and at work that changing genders doesn't involve changing personalities, at least not to a great extent. I am at heart still the person I was, for better or worse.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

The last thing the world needs is to fall back into the idea that women have to be the 'perfect little housewife who cooks and cleans and is always dolled up....

Well, this topic is about being true to ones self.....Yes, it's the last thing the world needs..

But if an MTF WANTS to be a "perfect little housewife"...what is inherently wrong with that?

Here's a good thought from Mia...

I think a lot of us tend to go overboard at times during transition just because we want so much to show we are not that "other" gender.

I guess that it's like eating T-bone steak every day....

Eventually you want a good 'ole chicken leg...,

Sure, lots of us FTM/MTF go over board at first....

Some of us lived in our birth gender 40-50 years or more...

My therapist said that I over compensated being a "male" and did terribly dangerous things and manly endeavors....

Now I can be the female that I was supposed to be, but, look how much I missed out on....How do we make up for that?

We go too far out there for a while....

But, most settle in....

Lacey tells us how she's gonna live her life her way.....

I DO NOT follow the usual T-girl script in any way. Megan Rose and her significant other have seen me recently, and will again in the future, and they can tell you that I present as more of a "classy butch" or "girlie androgyne" than as a typical T-girl.

And ....that is the way it should be......

Because there IS NO SCRIPT!

We don't tell others how to live and we don't expect it from them...

Alexandra sees it this way.....

But the concept of passing is rather important to me for a really big reason: I want other people to see me as I see myself (or, more accurately, as I want to see myself).

And, I agree with her......I want to be seen as/blend as/be as/be perceived as a female.....Because that's what I am.

Is it important to me? Heck yeah...because I'm A WOMAN!

I try hard to blend in so many ways.....I try to get rid of the male things (don't be funny...I lived male for 58 years....yeah, it left a mark...)...

So....I don't want to be accused by anyone of "over playing" my role...I'm living how I want....

And that's what we're all talking about, isn't it?

And, that is why I accept how everyone else here lives.....

I respect their gender identities, reasons for transitioning or not and how they want to be treated.....

Remember......

Not everyone likes chocolate cake.....some like other flavors....

Huggs

Donna Jean

[Guest Elena]

I'm just like Dee Jay in that I have done all sorts of hyper masculine and stupidly dangerous things throughout my life. Then when I'd get the chance I would dress up and try to create an equally oversexed illusion of femininity. The funniest part is no matter how hard I tried to come across as Rambo (yes, my job description in the army was as close as you could get) people still clocked me as gay or effeminate. On the other side, going too far trying to actually look feminine I never saw anything in the mirror but a pretty guy in a dress.

Now, I let a lot of the girl stuff be obvious even in guy mode, and guess what? I got ma'amed in guy mode for the first time in guy mode. When I do present as female I am much less likely to be misgendered, wearing casual clothes and just being relaxed. So for now still pre everything, that is the best way for me to blend in. Well you know what, as much as I enjoy it, it isn't enough. I really do love fancy dresses too, but right now I don't pass when I wear them and that hurts a lot.

I adore the entire spectrum of womens clothes. Always have, always will, but I am stuck with what works for now. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't wear a ballgown to a hockey game, it's more that if I wanted to treat myself to a fancy night of dinner and dancing at say the Ritz, I'd be a laughing stock as it is now. That doesn't make blending in any less important to me, rather I am past the stage of going for the overdone overdressed thing.

I think the key stone to how I view all of this is that I finally like being me but I am at the same time almost desperate for the world to see me in the same light. It gets harder and harder to hear he, him, sir etc. There are good things also though, it is easier for me to talk to people regardless of how I am presenting, and people seem much more inclined to talk with me. I know that comes from being honest and open. When people are nasty I ignore them because that means they are bigots and not worth my time. Being singled out constantly whether from curiosity, confusion, or the rare bigot is still annoying. That is one of the biggest reasons I work so hard at the smaller things that will help me 'pass'.

A strange scramble of thoughts on this subject but hey my thoughts are usually scrambled. I blame it in the T!

<3

Elena

[MackenzieB]

Doing this in order to feel complete?

No. Not me.

I'm doing this to feel happy. I've never been happy. I got a kid that's 27 and I'm still crying because of the pain.

I've never been happy. Well ok, everybody has a good time now and then but overall? No.

I'd gladly lose the love of my spouse, the love and respect of my children, in order to feel at peace. In order to just Love MYSELF for a brief and fleeting time before my death.

Completeness? I think one has to feel content with one's self prior to achieving that. Just my opinion.

[MackenzieB]

Evenclose (Miranda)... I'd quote that post but it's really big. And I really couldn't add anything that would do justice to it anyway.

But if you were here I'd give ya a big hug for it....

[Guest Jessica-Blue]

I'd gladly lose the love of my spouse, the love and respect of my children, in order to feel at peace. In order to just Love MYSELF for a brief and fleeting time before my death.

I am quite the opposite. if transitioning too fast or trying "too" hard to pass loses the love of my significant other, i would be unhappier than before transitioning. my biggest issue with transitioning is how badly it would hurt my significant other.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Hi Silver,

Indeed, overcompensating is part of the process some people do go through (me included). All I can say is that I think it is simply part of maturing into yourself. As one grows more comfortable with themselves, the need for overcompensating fades away.

Love

Brenda

[Guest ColinFarber]

Hi Silver,

Indeed, overcompensating is part of the process some people do go through (me included). All I can say is that I think it is simply part of maturing into yourself. As one grows more comfortable with themselves, the need for overcompensating fades away.

Love

Brenda

This doesn't always happen though; just like insecure males don't always mature and start embracing themselves, insecure FtMs and MtFs sometimes do not mature and stay that way till the end

Worse that that, even, is what I've termed Trans cup cakes. These are transpeople (the ones I've met have all be MTF) who have these very strict standards of what transitioning is and what timetable to follow and how to do it.

I have encountered this, I even went away from a forum because I was tired of dealing with these kind of people; I'm taking the most traditional route ever, and I'm not every remarkably odd for an FtM apart from the fact that I'm bi/pan and slightly gender-nonconforming (still "manlier" than some cismales, LOL. Not on purpose)...and yet it still bugs me, because I remeber when I tried to force myself to be something I wasn't (a girl), and then did it again when I realized I was trans, because I thought "I can't really be trans unless..."

I really, really hate that kind of people. I don't hate a lot of people, but those ones? I loathe them.

[Guest Christine Alexa]

Now, I'm in command. I walk around like I own the place ... everywhere I go.

That's actually the advice I give other trans girls. When you go into public, be yourself, but have full confidence. Once you walk into everyplace you go, as if you own it and are fully comfortable, oh wait, you BECOME full comfortable. People like to be around confident people. Even if you don't think you "pass" (damn I hate that mentality), go in there with full confidence.

Also, quit thinking about "passing". Just be yourself. The more you are, the more people see you for WHO YOU ARE NOW, not the person you used to pretend to be. It isn't about passing. It's about people seeing you for yourself. So be the best *YOU* you can be everyday. My goal is to be me, and the more I am, the more people see me as the woman I am, not as the boy I pretended to be for 39 years.

I know like most girls, I went overboard in the clothing department at first, just like ANY teenage girl does. I pulled it back a few notches, and now still dress damn hot and sexy, but not overboard. I think most of us go through that stage, and most of us would have figured those boundries out when we were 13-16 had we not had to pretend to be something we weren't during those years instead.

HTH

[Guest Lacey Lynne]

Doing this in order to feel complete?

No. Not me.

I'm doing this to feel happy. I've never been happy. I got a kid that's 27 and I'm still crying because of the pain.

I've never been happy. Well ok, everybody has a good time now and then but overall? No.

I'd gladly lose the love of my spouse, the love and respect of my children, in order to feel at peace. In order to just Love MYSELF for a brief and fleeting time before my death.

Completeness? I think one has to feel content with one's self prior to achieving that. Just my opinion.

Right on, Caitlin!

Dang, I can totally relate to what you say. Me too. That's what this transition trip is all about.

For me, it's like:

Hey, I LIKE ME ... even if nobody else does. Wow, I'm HAPPY for the first time ever.

Sound familiar? What you say here is spot-on for me. Resonance City, babes. Rock ON!

Peace Lacey

[Guest Miss_Construe]

Doing this in order to feel complete?

No. Not me.

I'm doing this to feel happy. I've never been happy. I got a kid that's 27 and I'm still crying because of the pain.

I've never been happy. Well ok, everybody has a good time now and then but overall? No.

I'd gladly lose the love of my spouse, the love and respect of my children, in order to feel at peace. In order to just Love MYSELF for a brief and fleeting time before my death.

Completeness? I think one has to feel content with one's self prior to achieving that. Just my opinion.

Right on, Caitlin!

Dang, I can totally relate to what you say. Me too. That's what this transition trip is all about.

For me, it's like:

Hey, I LIKE ME ... even if nobody else does. Wow, I'm HAPPY for the first time ever.

Sound familiar? What you say here is spot-on for me. Resonance City, babes. Rock ON!

Peace Lacey

Ditto

Hugs,

April