Anyone Ever Feel This Way?

[Guest My_Genesis]

Hey everyone, this question is mainly directed towards anyone here who identifies as heterosexual, meaning MTF attracted to men, FTM attracted to women, or if there are other variations like intersexed or something..

but yeah, my question is, do you ever wish you could just be looked at as straight? It really bugs me that being trans is associated wih being gay, I mean technically, if you're like me and you're FTM and attracted to women, you have a male brain, and that male brain also is responsible for determining you sexual orientation, so that makes you heterosexual. that's how I see it anyway...or vice versa for MTF's..

IDK, for some reason I just really don't want to be associated with the "LGB" part of the community, I feel like being trans already stigmatizes you enough as it is, and, if you identify as heterosexual, even if you're cisgendered, most cis people don't exactly like being thought of as homosexual if they aren't, at least not in a serious way..I mean I know people joke about it all the time but that's different than being part of the LGBT community. I also think it makes people get the wrong idea about us, makes them think we're all gay or something, and people who disapprove of being trans may think differently if we actually went arund and said we identify as a straight female or a straight male..in fact, I kinda wish they put the "T" completely separate from the "LGB", i mean, if you're trans and gay, you can always support both, but for me personally, I would rather not be associated with homosexuals when I do not identify as one myself..Am I being too close-minded? i apologize if I said anything offensive, it just kinda bugs me a lot what people think, with this whole issue I tend to be very close-minded about my own personal situation, like I also dont really relate to that whole "gender fluidity' thing..I just want to be seen as a male like any bio-male..I don't have any problems with anyone else feeling like they don't belong specifically to one gender or another, but for me, personally, I still only would see myself as either male or female...

So again I'm sorry if I offended anyone, obviously, since im trans im not homophobic or anything lol...I'm just really worried about what other people think, and i dont want people to view me as gay...plus, 'L', 'G' and 'B' are all sexual orientations, why do they stick T in there..it doesn't belong in there just as much as an 'I' for intersex does not belong...

Does anyone agree with me on this or am I being narrow-minded (which i really don't want to be, I can't stand narrow-minded people)..but i do admit i am very narrow-minded with myself..

[Guest theEND]

I can see where you're coming from, in that we are the odd ones out in the LGBT. What I find annoying is that so many people know so little about us that they would presume we're all gay or whatever, but I don't actually have an issue with TS being part of LGBT. Basically the reason why is that even we are different from LGB, we are all in a similar situation..not being treated the way we deserve, and also having people think we are some kind of freaks. So although I do see your point, I don't mind being part of LGBT.

[Guest Keira]

Sometimes I feel the same way. I'm involved in a couple of GLBT groups, but mostly just for social reasons. Aside from the friendships I've formed with the GLB people in these groups, there's not much else that we have in common. Their issues are quite different to mine. However, that doesn't mean I would not want to be associated with them... everyone should be able to mingle with different groups in society without worrying about what others think.

[Guest Sara N]

Although I'm MTF and attracted to females I agree on what you said.

"L" "G" and "B" are sexual orientations, and "T" is gender identity. The issues they deal with are quite different. Whenever I look for resources, most of the time I have to filter out the "L" "G" and "B" just to find what I want.

I'm not quite certain on my sexual orientation yet, but I feel it's not something I need to deal with yet. I only want to focus on gender identity at the moment.

[Guest My_Genesis]

Yeah, I know we go through similar things, which is exactly why I feel like everyone must automatically assume we're gay...I mean we even use the same terminology they do a lot of the time..and if they include us, why not include intersex? I would at least feel better about it if they did, because most people know, or at least accept, that being intersexed is a biological problem, so I feel like they aren't really seen as "some kind of freaks", since there's solid proof that they don't have a "choice". Anyway, that's the problem I have..I don't want to be seen as some kind of freak. I've been fighting against that my entire life, primarily because of this, but because of other things as well, and it's also one of my worst fears socially.

[Guest femmym]

im FTM and im in a lesbian relationship have been in a lesbian relationship for 4 years now i have all ways been attracted

to women.

[Guest Evan_J]

Hmmmm. Couple of things- and yeah, they conflict but wth. First, many FTM's that I've known do consider themselves "straight". If you're a man and are attracted to women what else could you call it? Due to those two elements -being a man as opposed to just masculine- and then wearing the tag "straight" has garnered them a lot of being turned away from the lgbt (in their case lesbian) community. Basically they're told "you don't fit here". So it is out there and it is happening.

The "problem" with that is, that the L, the G, the B, AND the T have and WILL be discrimnated against by those who call themselves 'right wing' or 'conservatve" regardless of calling yourself straight or anything else. Their criteria with regard to trans people is simply "you were not born that way" meaning the body hrt and surgery gives us. For them the topic ends there because of their contention that it will NEVER matter how much hrt you take or if you had the very best surgeon on gods earth. If you didn't get shot out of the womb that way they do not accept your gender.Period. No ands ifs buts. Discussion closed. And folks the truth is you cannot change someone's mind for them if they make it up that they are not going to have it changed. So what you end up doing by "separating" yourself into a tiny segment without the LGandB is making yourselves an easier target in that there is more strength in numbers. Yes, education does many things but it doesn't make you harder to pick on if you are standing to yourself. Besides, what woud be next? Are we about to separated ourselves among one another based on orientation? I would not like to imagine one trans guy feeling "superior" to the other trans guy because "I'm a straight trans guy" and "he's a _______"<---- cuz its a short walk to start using those very words with one another if we do that

[Guest Snow Angel]

LBGT isn't connected. They dropped the T from LGB for employment protection, remember?

[Guest My_Genesis]

hmm...wherever I see it the T is still there...is it only in employment settings that they dropped it?

[Guest Evan_J]

Not sure. But I think the thing is that "internally" there's a little struggle going right now about the T being included anyhow.

[Guest skyy]

i see what you mean. what we have is a gender disorder, wrong body for the mind. it has nothing to do with our sexuallity. it is just something about the way we were born and what our soul is. it just so happenes i'm also bi, and am very much in love with a girl. i have no desire to be intimate with her with the body i have now. but is a seperate thing from my gender issue. i do sort of think it does give the wrong idea of what being trangendered means.

but i guess transgendered people tag along because in the end, its the same war. the right to follow one's own heart despite what others think. i guess its that similarity, and the fact that if you know your trans, you will most likely know if your gay, thus many trans having that in common, that makes the GLBT work together. one strong voice is stronger than many seperate ones. personally, i'm not so much of a GLBT fan, i agree on the need to do something, but the methods are something i'm not too fond of. i'm transgendered and bisexual, but i still have my independant thoughts. thats just me though, hope this helped, this is just my theories on the subject.

[Guest My_Genesis]

i see what you mean. what we have is a gender disorder, wrong body for the mind. it has nothing to do with our sexuallity. it is just something about the way we were born and what our soul is. it just so happenes i'm also bi, and am very much in love with a girl. i have no desire to be intimate with her with the body i have now. but is a seperate thing from my gender issue. i do sort of think it does give the wrong idea of what being trangendered means.

but i guess transgendered people tag along because in the end, its the same war. the right to follow one's own heart despite what others think. i guess its that similarity, and the fact that if you know your trans, you will most likely know if your gay, thus many trans having that in common, that makes the GLBT work together. one strong voice is stronger than many seperate ones. personally, i'm not so much of a GLBT fan, i agree on the need to do something, but the methods are something i'm not too fond of. i'm transgendered and bisexual, but i still have my independant thoughts. thats just me though, hope this helped, this is just my theories on the subject.

Yeah, I consider myself kind of an autonomous person, as opposed to being grouped with a bunch of other people (or simply working in groups). I just think it's misleading to put a gender identity issue together with 3 sexual orientations. I don't know, I feel like being trans already stigmatizes me, so to be viewed as gay or bi would stigmatize me more than I need to be..I feel like I have to keep reaffirming to people that I don't identify as that, because I feel like I'd be treated differently for it. And I guess you do get treated differently sometimes for being trans, but since I really am trans, but I'm not actually gay, so it would bother me to be looked at that way just because of the trans thing...I'm probably not explaining this very well, but that's basically how I feel about it.

[Guest skyy]

Yeah, I consider myself kind of an autonomous person, as opposed to being grouped with a bunch of other people (or simply working in groups). I just think it's misleading to put a gender identity issue together with 3 sexual orientations. I don't know, I feel like being trans already stigmatizes me, so to be viewed as gay or bi would stigmatize me more than I need to be..I feel like I have to keep reaffirming to people that I don't identify as that, because I feel like I'd be treated differently for it. And I guess you do get treated differently sometimes for being trans, but since I really am trans, but I'm not actually gay, so it would bother me to be looked at that way just because of the trans thing...I'm probably not explaining this very well, but that's basically how I feel about it.

naa, you explain yourself just fine. but thats what i mean, you arent gay, so why be in a gay community. your just a straight dude with a birth disorder. its like putting people with bizzare chromosonal count in GLBT becasue they are fully male or female. just doesnt make sense.

[Guest Evan_J]

<-----playin the devils advocate....

To the mainstream all are considered "sexual variations" though. Thats why they lump them together. In the view of a majority who really care not what the details of difference are, you have some sort of "variation that involves sex" be it the use of your genitals or your relationship with them. Thats their take.

[Guest My_Genesis]

<-----playin the devils advocate....

To the mainstream all are considered "sexual variations" though. Thats why they lump them together. In the view of a majority who really care not what the details of difference are, you have some sort of "variation that involves sex" be it the use of your genitals or your relationship with them. Thats their take.

the ignorance of society these days..

But if that's the case, why don't they stick an "I" in there for intersex? IMO, I think it's because intersex conditions have physical, biological evidence of the problem (i.e. chromosomal and/or genital abnormalities, etc.), whereas with us, obviously there's not any tangible proof, so people generally think it's all in our heads, likea mental rather than a physical/biological problem..at least they haven't gotten to that point yet...but it seems pretty close, being that some of us have prostates, and that whole thing about a lot of ftm's having H-Y antigens and a lot of mtf's lacking it, and the physical/neurological brain differences, etc. etc...which is why I'm still hanging on tho that last hope that I might have an intersex condition

[Guest MissLissy]

In response to the OP, I can completely understand how you don't want to be lumped together with the LGB label. Transexualism is something completely different. I even hear stuff about how people fighting for gay rights don't even fight for trans-rights just as long as they get theirs. Sexual orientation is one thing and has nothing to do with transgender issues. Genetic males and females can be LG or B, just as we can be as well. I'm going to definitely agree with the OP and say I don't like my gender identity lumped into my sexual orientation either. I guess from the media, being transexual is stigmatized as being one of those subjects akin to LGB issues. Remember always gay men wear pink and lesbians are always butch. /sarcasm

[Guest jantonio]

Interesting topic Genesis. I agree with Evan on this one. Strength is in numbers. Eventhough our issues deal with gender we are still discriminated against just like the LGB community is. This is one of the reasons I don't like labels, when people ask what are you? I'm like "Hello, I am me, duh!". People tend to like to put people in a neat little box, well guess what? I hate to be in a box, I just like to be free.

I believe that it is our responsibility as trans to educate people in what transgender means. That our issues has nothing to do with sexual orientation but with gender identity. That's what I've been doing at work as I am coming out here. In fact there will be a staff meeting sometime soon and I will attend in order to answer any questions that people might have on transgender.

Jose Antonio...

[Guest Priestess Jean]

Oh yes, I agree... I'm a MTF-TS who has always been attracted

to men. I actually identify as "third gender", BTW, not male or

female... but since our society doesn't understand that, then I

am simply considered to be "female" under law. It's not right,

but it's more correct than "male" is, LOL.

Well, I am one of the founders of the local gender alliance. It's a

group for gender variant persons. Around 1997 the GLB movement

underwent a push to include us (to increase their cash and clout)

and we were asked to join the local GLB organization. They had

a lot of existing resources and so our gender group decided to

join with them... as a matter of fact I was the only one who voted

against it. After 11 years I still feel the same.

I like the GLB community and have found a lot of support there...

but it's not my issue, and I don't really feel like we ought to be

connected to it. A person's orientation just isn't the same thing as

their gender identity.

Jean

[Guest MelanieAnne]

I totally agree with you. In my college, the Trans support group is completely separate from the LGB support group for that very reason. Many of us are heterosexual, and though I appear as a gay male now, once I go through transition I will be a straight female. This is why I don't identify with most LGB's as it is an entirely different thing. I will be a straight woman, a woman who likes men, thus heterosexual. I am glad you made this post.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora M G and others,

Whether one intends to or not, by ones shunning of gay and bisexual people does sound a lot like a ‘phobic’ reaction…They ‘fear’ what others think of them should they associated with other ‘human’ beings[GLB] whose struggle for acceptance differ from themselves…

Even though I wish the opposite were true, sadly ones prejudices and discriminative natures does not disappear once a person starts to affirm their true gender identity…For some if they held negative views towards others before their transition they are just as likely to hold the same views after…

It’s a sad fact many trans-people still hold racist views that they have inherited from family or local community and quite a number are still suffering from 'internalised transphobia' and like you’ve mentioned some of those who identify as ‘heterosexuals’ are for want of a better word homophobic 'phobics' -that is they ‘fear’ what others will think of them should they be associated with the gay community-even though they appear to be somewhat gay friendly…

I’m asexual bi-affectionate I just like people for who they are and not for their gender identity or sexual orientation …I personally ‘choose’ not to carry that ‘burden’ of fear, I can’t see the point in worrying about what other people think of me…Besides people are going to think what they want to think regardless of what you tell them…

You can either continue to carry that burden of ‘fear’ which from what I gather seems to make many of you feel uncomfortable ‘mentally’ and possibly adding to the physical stress you already feel from being trans…or you can drop it and get on with your life…by just being comfortable with who 'you' are...

People normally only see what you ‘present’ to them and if you happen to look or behave somewhat ‘strange’ then strange is the 'label' they will put on you whether you like it or not…

In saying all that, you will no doubt continue to think what you think even if I personally feel it is just an ‘irrational’ fear…an extra burden you are adding to your collection…

On a final note…Sometimes one might ‘candy coat’ ones deep felt prejudices…But the taste is still bitter…

Metta Jendar

[Guest Ashley fl]

i am also bisexual , being ts mtf has nothing to do with sexual orientation , its who i am , not what i like .

[Guest skyy]

let me just say im a bi, but mor on the lesbian side. i dont really think its a phobia of gay, but rather an inaccurate representation of what trans is. i think what they mean is that they dont want it to be seen as a sexuallity, not because the "fear" other sexuallities, but becase its plain inaccurate. being trans has nothing to do with sexuality, but rather with what your brain sex is. the fear i think is that because people dont even understand gays, they will lump trans into the mix. i think they just dont want it to be seen as something it isnt. no offence meant, but thats just the way i see it. clearly i dont shun gay and bi people, but i dont see my disorder having anything to do with the fact i'm a girl who likes girls.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Skyy,

Before I ramble on... GLBT or no T in GLB society at large really don't give a stuff on correctness especially when it comes to how they see sexual and gender diverse people...some know the difference, other don't and couldn't care one way or the other...Even when the difference is being shoved down their throat ...

You put you point a cross in a nice non confrontational way, but facts are facts…

I think you are missing the point here and you will find if you read MG post the reason as to why he does not want to be associated with the GLB community ie, because of what some cisgender people might or do think …We all know and have known for a long time that our ‘gender’ identity has nothing to do with our ‘sexual’ orientation…umm, that’s a no brainer… But why do you think some trans-people don’t like being associated with the gay community???

Again I repeat they ‘fear’ that cisgender people might ‘think’ they are one of the same…It’s what known as homophobia ‘phobia’ a fear of being associated with gay people, they ‘fear’ what the term ‘homosexual’ represents…- even if they personally have nothing against gay people…In fact many no doubt go through[using] the ‘gay’ scene before coming out…

Do I care if people think I’m gay??? I guess if I was not ‘comfortable’ with myself then perhaps I might care…But because I ‘know’ who I am, I really don’t give a s***…Plus I have a tongue in my mouth and if I feel it necessary I know how to use it…

However I can understand for those trans-people who are not yet comfortable in their own skin and who appearence might still challenge society’s concept of gender, being seen as ‘homosexual’ could be to quote you “rather an inaccurate representation” of who they are…But again if they are ‘comfortable’ with themselves, why worry about what other people might think…

To do so is to add a unnecessary burden/strain on their mental wellbeing…What's the point in worrying-worry is paying interest on trouble that may never come!!!

Umm just a thought… I no longer see myself as ‘transsexual’ I once suffered form this ‘congenital’ condition, but now I’m cured…So where does that leave me in the GLBT??? Not to forget, I’m also ‘asexual’[not bisexual]…I personally think that GLBT got more bite to it than just the solitary ‘T’…Even though I don’t fit anywhere within it…

Do some trans-people really fear what the 'cisgender' people think...or do they fear that some members of the 'gay' community might just see them as confused 'homosexuals'...In which case this would go to show that some trans-people who call themselves 'heterosexual' are still not 'comfortable' with who they are...Possibly still having some doubts...

And finally the most important part to my rambling…

GLB and T are fighting for a common cause, ‘acceptance’ of who they are as people/human beings not just about sexual orientation and or gender identity…that’s why they should stay together…

Remember “UNITED WE STAND GLBT…DIVIDED WE FALL…T!”…

BTW I’m bi ‘affectionate’ ‘asexual’ not bisexual…I personally have no interest in sex whatsoever…I would if I could- but I don’t- so I won’t !!! But if people want to call me bisexual or lesbian it’s no skin off my nose…It’s their mistake but I won’t lose any sleep over it…

When one become totally 'comfortable' with who they are ...they really don't give a stuff what others 'think' and why should they...

Metta Jendar

[Guest Evan_J]

..... “UNITED WE STAND GLBT…DIVIDED WE FALL…T!”…

.....

Shamelessly snipped, but that's my one political concern. Other than that. Who gives a hoot what anyone thinks. Personal opinion (ok, so I know its true....) there's just as much homophobia within the trans community and without it. And sometimes even transophobia. (Yes folks, transpeople who are "phobic" to other transpeople.) And I say that acknowledging that I've been guilty of both.

I've had my moments of "being" that guy; bent out of shape and distancing from gay transguys and just feeling completely unrelated to gay men period. So I understand "not wanting to be assumed to be gay." But my question is this, when we're dealin with the mainstreams feelings to us, how do we avoid being assumed to be trans then? Cuz we're gettin "assumed" to be that too and theres (at least where I am) worse stigma to that.

[Guest skyy]

you make a good point about being united. and after thinking about it, i think you are right. weather being gay or being your own gender. its all about being true to yourself. in that way i guess they are the same, its about the right to be yourself. i didnt mean to offend, i just get really irked when people use terms incorrectly, its not just this, i've been known to argue over pointless words for days before i just was worried that people would understand us less if they cant define the term correctly. if they are willingly turning away from the truth, they screw them. but i disagree about always turning away. we are a minority, and as such, knowledge is limited about us. some people dont know the facts because they arent tied to us in any way, and not because of 'fear'. i guess i just want them to have a true understanding of what we are, because its not a fault to be ignorent, the fault is in trying to be. which some dont. but i realize after thinking about it that the T isnt that different, its all about following the heart when the majority is agenst it. so i can see the point. we just need to make sure we dont confuse innosent ignorence with rejection. thats my point.