HRT pre-full time & remaining incognito

[Guest Shy]

I was talking with my GT this morning, and I brought up my personal pros and cons for HRT. The Pro side is filled with awesome, life fulfilling things, but the Con side is relatively shallow. None of them seem to be great reasons to not live ones life correctly... The biggest Con on my list is coming out to everyone, and being subjected to their judgements and such. I'm not yet ready to explain my situation to my family, friends and coworkers, but I would like to start moving in the right direction. Start taking control of my life at last.

I think I could benefit greatly from hormones while still being closeted, but my therapist made the point that I wouldn't be able to hide it for long. This got me wondering, how much could I realistically not hide?

Aside from breasts, which might not amount to a noticeable size on my large frame anyhow, what would be really noticeable?

[Guest Donna Jean]

I think I could benefit greatly from hormones while still being closeted, but my therapist made the point that I wouldn't be able to hide it for long. This got me wondering, how much could I realistically not hide?

Aside from breasts, which might not amount to a noticeable size on my large frame anyhow, what would be really noticeable?

My experience......I worked in a "Male Oriented" trade for a year and a half before I came out there and I was on hormones that amount of time......

It's not that difficult to hide the effects for a period of time.....

I know one post-op woman that still goes to work as male until she retires....

Donna Jean

[Cyndee]

Shy, I am currently on HRT (5 months) and not full time here. I do have to cover my breasts in certain scenarios now, aside from that facial changes are becoming noticeable to others. I just saw a bunch of old friends that I had not seen since before starting and they all commented on how much weight I had lost ;-) I actually weigh about the same, however with exercise and HRT the fat distribution is different (curves rock !). Another thing that may become noticeable to others is skin tone, it does change.

Good luck hon.

Cindy -

[Sally]

Dear Shy,

You will be amazed by what people will not notice - I was on HRT for more than 2 years before I came out and transitioned at work.

The changes are gradual and most people just see what they expect to see.

Do not put this off because you are afraid to talk about it - you will have to before you can live full time and that is the whole point - so just get started and come out to the people that you need to when you need to - it won't be easy but then it will be worth it.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest NadineB]

I had no problem hiding the first year. And I know of people who have gone as long as 3 years, before they told anyone.

Good luck hon, just remember you doing this for you, nobody else :-)

Luv Nadine

[Guest Ney'ite]

This is *only* my story . . . everyone is different and I am certainly no "gauge" to go by whatsoever.

The same thing happened to me as Megan mentioned, people were starting to notice my skin after only a few months, along with a different scent. About 3 or 4 months people started noticing my facial changes and started questioning if I was wearing makeup or something (which I was not).

In addition to the HRT, was the electrology. If you are currently doing or planning on doing any facial hair removal (electrology or laser), you will probably reach a point that you would not be able to hide the fact that you no longer have that typical "5 o'clock shadow."

By about, let's see, roughly a year and 4½ months-ish, the male pronouns seemed to have abruptly stopped overnight and were replaced by female pronouns consistently from that point on by strangers in person and on the phone (voice I have been working on for over 2 years).

But this is *only* my experience and I am very fortunate for the genetics I have been blessed with. As is often said, your mileage may vary.

[Guest Audrey Elizabeth]

You can hide it at least for a year like I have with some adjustment to activity. Like after a while going to the pool might be a real challenge if you go further than waist deep. But if you want to hide it you can. There will be changes and people may look at you and try to figure out what is different about you but chances are they will never, ever, not in a million years think that you must be Trans. I went through summer thinking people saw that my breasts were getting bigger, but nope they never saw it. It’s actually funny because I went from being paranoid at work to pushing the line, within reason, more and more just to see when I might go too far and still nothing. I even let my hair down and let it do its curly wavy thing and still nothing. I do have guys in the restroom freak out from time to time thinking they went in the ladies room and then taking a closer look at me and then relaxing. Still nothing. Ultimately you will have to spell it out for people for them to figure it out. And like I was told from the time I came on LP, I will tell you, if you are confident in yourself and just smile all will be ok. And you will be.

Good luck sweetie!!!

Audrey

[Guest Krisina]

Interesting topic and one of the things on my mind.

You see, I think my dysphoria in some ways is getting worse.

I have read things from more knowledgeable people such as Lizzy who have said don't transition unless you must or die. I don't know if I would go that far but I have thought a little bit about that stuff. It subides. I know my dysphoria won't go away. I dont always want to go and get dressed up but it would be nice just to think for a moment I could just be in jeans and a t-shirt and just look like a girl, a woman (with a wig on to help me). I'd just like to be able to when I get off work to get out of my work uniform and either pjs etc just see a woman in the mirror and feel like the body actually matches that without breast forms. So what happens if I don't transition? I live with this disability. I have a loving mate who suprisingly loves me anyway and is supportive regardless of my imperfections. I have come out to more friends about being transgender and they haven't run away, not yet. My bosses saw me in a glbt club, I didn't really talk to them there and they didn't bring it up at work, keeping personal life separate from work.

I feel like I'm stuck, but not at the same time.

I have a green light, all systems are go for take off.

I just have to make the next move.

If I stay still I go nowhere, no risks.

If I go, I go towards the unknown outside of my comfort zone (HRT)

If I stay still I wonder what's the point on continuing with going to my gender therapist.

I'd like to live my life the way I want without having to go FT at work.

Go out when I choose to go out as my true self on my own time.

To take it at my pace.

I'm almost done with laser. Next step to see how I survive electrolysis or IPL (intensive pulse light) treatment.

I know of one young woman living full time who has been on HRT three years and still hasn't had laser or electrolysis. I believe she has been approved for SRS too. So having facial hair although annoying is possible ft. For me would be getting rid of it without being ft or the important areas done.

More fears fading away. I do get a little self concious going out if I haven't in a while. I would love to be hair free on the chest for a week or twoo hair free eg epilator (do they really hurt using on breasts?) and be able to show cleavage or something more natural.

Thank you for all who have read my post. Tomorrow is another gender therapist appointment for me.

Krisina

[Guest Leah1026]

You can't predict these things, which is why I always say:

YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)

Besides the physical changes your coworkers will probably pick up on your mental changes. Don't forget the hormones WILL change the way you think and feel. When I came out at work, one of my coworkers said they had noticed I was much happier, but hadn't known why.

Good Luck.

[Guest Shy]

Wow! After isolating myself for the past few months, to have such wonderful responses is so uplifting. Thanks everyone!

I know one post-op woman that still goes to work as male until she retires....

This is something I've thought about quite a bit. Somewhere down the line, I want the surgery. That much I know for sure. I have strong body dysphoria, etc, etc. But I don't know about committing to living all aspects of my life as a woman until I'd feel comfortable. However, if the Real Life Test is supposed to be a year of full time, how could your friend get SRS if she went to work as a man?

It seems perfectly legitimate to me, but I know the standards of care preach against that and such. Anyway, It is comforting to see someone else having been able to do that. Thanks for your input!

...facial changes are becoming noticeable to others. I just saw a bunch of old friends that I had not seen since before starting and they all commented on how much weight I had lost ;-) I actually weigh about the same, however with exercise and HRT the fat distribution is different (curves rock !). Another thing that may become noticeable to others is skin tone, it does change.

What kind of facial changes do you refer to? Is that in reference to skin tone and fat redistribution as you mentioned or something else? I feel like could chalk all of that up to better hygiene and exercise, all the while secretly relishing in my curvy body. But I have heard some vague tidbits on facial changes, like the eyes are somehow different? The prospect is very exciting. Thank you!

Do not put this off because you are afraid to talk about it - you will have to before you can live full time and that is the whole point - so just get started and come out to the people that you need to when you need to - it won't be easy but then it will be worth it.

You are so right, and I have got to hold onto that notion. It's difficult to break free of the whole "living to appease other's expectations" thing, but I can't deny the validity of what you are saying. It's just truth. Thank you so much! I will try to keep this in mind.

I had no problem hiding the first year. And I know of people who have gone as long as 3 years, before they told anyone.

Good luck hon, just remember you doing this for you, nobody else :-)

Luv Nadine

Ideally I wouldn't have to hide 3 years (though I doubt your friends really want that either), but it's comforting to know people in similar situations can get by that long. Sometimes I get caught up in still trying to live up to my loved ones' expectations, and it's very important to remember that this is just for me. Thanks, Nadine!

I was asked what I had done to my skin in only a month. I wasn't prepared for that, and ended up outing myself. For me that outing became a blessing, and the start of a friendship.

Your skin will probably be the first thing, aside from a very giddy mood. If you have answers for that, you can hold off transition for a while longer.

Love, Meg

You bring up a very real concern for me. When I feel giddy and on top of the world, I tend to be very forthcoming. And I can only imagine one day after being of HRT for a few months, feeling great and coming out to the first person who makes a comment. In fairness, this positive attitude is what I strive for. No embarrassment, just pride and bliss. Who could ask for more? At this stage in the game it scares me, but hopefully if I do cross that road, it will only bring me closer to those I have been so closed off from. Thanks, Meg!

The same thing happened to me as Megan mentioned, people were starting to notice my skin after only a few months, along with a different scent. About 3 or 4 months people started noticing my facial changes and started questioning if I was wearing makeup or something (which I was not).

In addition to the HRT, was the electrology. If you are currently doing or planning on doing any facial hair removal (electrology or laser), you will probably reach a point that you would not be able to hide the fact that you no longer have that typical "5 o'clock shadow."

By about, let's see, roughly a year and 4½ months-ish, the male pronouns seemed to have abruptly stopped overnight and were replaced by female pronouns consistently from that point on by strangers in person and on the phone (voice I have been working on for over 2 years).

Your scent?! Really? It makes sense since your body chemistry is all changed, but this is really intriguing! Were you able to tell you smelled different? Or was it something someone surprised you with one day by asking about it?

The make-up question is really mind boggling. I never thought of HRT giving the appearance of wearing make up, but I suppose the purpose of cosmetics is to enhance a feminine appearance. As your body was becoming more feminine, it stands to reason for someone not in-the-know, that they might ask that question. That's a good thing to keep in mind.

I am not doing any permanent facial hair removal yet. So that will definitely help in keeping it all under wraps for the time being.

About the pronouns, were you presenting at a year and 4 months? I can't see anyone confusing me for a girl based on HRT alone, although how awesome would that be! Thanks for sharing!

You can hide it at least for a year like I have with some adjustment to activity. Like after a while going to the pool might be a real challenge if you go further than waist deep. But if you want to hide it you can.

...

Ultimately you will have to spell it out for people for them to figure it out. And like I was told from the time I came on LP, I will tell you, if you are confident in yourself and just smile all will be ok. And you will be.

I've never been comfortable taking my clothes off in front of others, or myself for that matter, but you raise a good point. I don't know what I can realistically expect as far as breast growth goes. I've heard it's not much on girls with large frames, but even still, something will probably show. I hope you're right about spelling it out for people. That's how I'd like it to be, and with HRT I can only hope my confidence will go up and opening up to my friends and family wont seem so daunting. Thanks!

...who have said don't transition unless you must or die. I don't know if I would go that far but I have thought a little bit about that stuff. It subides. I know my dysphoria won't go away. I dont always want to go and get dressed up but it would be nice just to think for a moment I could just be in jeans and a t-shirt and just look like a girl, a woman (with a wig on to help me). I'd just like to be able to when I get off work to get out of my work uniform and either pjs etc just see a woman in the mirror and feel like the body actually matches that without breast forms.

I don't think I'd die if I didn't transition. I'd just continue to be very unhappy, resentful, repressed, and horribly introverted. What basically amounts to being a zombie. That's kind of how I see my life right now, minus the whole eating people thing. I just shuffle through my daily life with glimpses of a wonderful life I could be living... I think we are much alike in that, I would just like to come home from work and see a woman in the mirror. I don't need to dress or act lavishly, but it's so damn comforting to simply see myself that way. It makes for an amazing state of mind. Suddenly I can sing and play guitar without embarrassment. I can speak my mind and not worry that I'm revealing my feminist or queer view on things. I feel comfortable having sex. Again, to say that it's either life or death is omitting an important factor. How much of a life are you already living if you don't love and enjoy yourself? When I'm in the negative state of mind, it's exactly what I would call a "living hell". In a way, I feel like I am waiting to come alive because I'm living someone else's life right now. I hope you find what's best for you Krisina.

Thanks for taking the time to respond everyone! This has been mind expanding and uplifting to say the least.

[Guest Shy]

You can't predict these things, which is why I always say:

YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)

Besides the physical changes your coworkers will probably pick up on your mental changes. Don't forget the hormones WILL change the way you think and feel. When I came out at work, one of my coworkers said they had noticed I was much happier, but hadn't known why.

Good Luck.

Luckily, I work 3rd shift at a radio station. So: A) Not many people are around late at night, usually 1-3 people. and It's a pretty liberal place to work. That being said, there are still people very set in their ways that I anticipate problems being out around. I must admit though, all of these responses about how strong the mental changes are is very exciting. I often get so angry over insignificant things. I can acknowledge the futility, but that doesn't do much to quell the fury. I also get very depressed at the reality of who I am, but I think taking steps towards who I want to be will help the depression. So really, The idea of being calmer and happier is not something I'm worried about hiding. I really want to come out of my shell! Thanks for responding, Leah!

[JJ]

Though each situation is very different I noticed as I changed and adjusted to the changes in myself I also lost more and more of my fear of coming out. There will come a day that it feels right and natural and is what you want to do.

Being on T and being on E are of course polar opposites but one of the earliest changes for me was scent. Actually I had no need to hide my transition except fear of the reactions and it's consequences for my family and it still took many months for people to get it. Of course a radical weight loss may have added to that because it's what those who recognized me really focused on and most didn't recognize me.

Basically I'd say this is a process that is mental as much as physical-more I think really. As those physical changes take place mental ones will as well. Your therapist will be there to guide you on that and you can hide the physical changes as long as you want. People see what they expect to see and if they notice a change they will only give it a passing thought. They have their own lives to focus on and few really care very much what others outside their family and friends do.

Transition is difficult-perhaps harder in many ways the older we are. But I wouldn't really say don't transition unless it's that or die because I feel we all deserve a happy fulfilled life. Transition if that is impossible otherwise. I am very sorry that I didn't transition 20 or 30 years ago. Didn't know that I could. In so many ways those are lost years. I don't talk about it a lot and I don't dwell on it because it would just make the time I do have less happy but if you are going to transition then do it. As soon as you and your therapist feel that you are ready. Each day lost will not come again.

Having said that I have to say that transition won't guarantee a happy life-that is still entirely in your hands-but I do believe that it makes a happy life possible where it was not before for many of us

Johnny

[Paula ult]

I was on hormones about a year before going full time, around the 6 month mark a woman friend that works at the bowling alley made a comment that i smelled different, of course there had been lots of other changes like softer skin, facial changes, breast growth but she apparently only noticed my smell, at 8 - 9 months i started getting asked questions like have i lost weight, did you get a haircut and did you get a new shirt, people that i saw often were seeing something different about me but did not know what it was, around the year mark i was getting ma'am'd by people that did not know me when not trying to present female, i talked it over with my therapist and he agreed with me that i should go full time if i thought i was ready to, people that see you often rarely notice the changes because that mental image of you is constantly being updated, but someone who has not seen you in a few months will notice the changes because of the older mental image.

There is no right or wrong way to transition, only what works for you, i know people that were living full time long before getting hormones, people that started living full time and started hormones at the same time and others like me who wanted hormones to work their magic before going full time.

Paula

[Guest Audrey Elizabeth]

Though each situation is very different I noticed as I changed and adjusted to the changes in myself I also lost more and more of my fear of coming out. There will come a day that it feels right and natural and is what you want to do.

J

Johnny I totally agree with you here.

Every journey seems impossible in the beginning but it is through the ups and downs of each step that shows your character and there comes a point when you look back and scratch your head and wonder have I really come this far. Did I really do that? Eventually what once seemed impossible seems so basic and trivial and you find that it is more than just the visible changes that we can see but something inside changes and makes us stronger. Of course each person’s journey is different but I also have found that so much of the fear and paranoia that I once had has simply vanished.

[~Nova~]

What kind of facial changes do you refer to? Is that in reference to skin tone and fat redistribution as you mentioned or something else? I feel like could chalk all of that up to better hygiene and exercise, all the while secretly relishing in my curvy body. But I have heard some vague tidbits on facial changes, like the eyes are somehow different? The prospect is very exciting. Thank you!

6mths HRT Facial changes do happen. I'm 46

[Guest Krisina]

What kind of facial changes do you refer to? Is that in reference to skin tone and fat redistribution as you mentioned or something else? I feel like could chalk all of that up to better hygiene and exercise, all the while secretly relishing in my curvy body. But I have heard some vague tidbits on facial changes, like the eyes are somehow different? The prospect is very exciting. Thank you!

6mths HRT Facial changes do happen. I'm 46

Does this mean the bags under my eyes from staying up late that skin might move around too?

I don't see bags under your eyes after 6 months. No not tea bags

Curves would be nice too

Krisina

[Guest Shy]

...I feel we all deserve a happy fulfilled life. Transition if that is impossible otherwise. I am very sorry that I didn't transition 20 or 30 years ago. Didn't know that I could. In so many ways those are lost years. I don't talk about it a lot and I don't dwell on it because it would just make the time I do have less happy but if you are going to transition then do it. As soon as you and your therapist feel that you are ready. Each day lost will not come again.

I get upset at the thought of that quite often, and I'll need to remember to follow your lead. Although I'm still relatively young at age 27, I feel like I've missed out on so much when I can recall having these feelings at age 4. But I get even more upset at the thought of being twice my current age, and looking back on this time of great contemplation, and being even more depressed for not jumping on it. There's no time like the present to take action. I feel really empowered by what you've said, Johnny. Thank you.

...people that see you often rarely notice the changes because that mental image of you is constantly being updated, but someone who has not seen you in a few months will notice the changes because of the older mental image.

This is exactly what I was thinking. The people I work with won't really notice the gradual change, but my family and old friendly would be likely to notice because I see them a few times a year. The smell thing is really interesting to me. Perhaps I've just never really noticed the different ways men and women smell, that or my sense of smell isn't that finely tuned or something.

Every journey seems impossible in the beginning but it is through the ups and downs of each step that shows your character and there comes a point when you look back and scratch your head and wonder have I really come this far. Did I really do that? Eventually what once seemed impossible seems so basic and trivial and you find that it is more than just the visible changes that we can see but something inside changes and makes us stronger. Of course each person’s journey is different but I also have found that so much of the fear and paranoia that I once had has simply vanished.

That's beautiful and inspiring Audrey. I feel that way currently. Having gone through college and actually getting a job after years, I realize I have to be grateful to be where I am in life. Even still, compared to transitioning, all of the prior successes are nothing. The prospect of actually doing something is another summit I must reach. I just found out the cost of freezing some swimmers for later use, and wow, that's much more than I imagined. It's just another obstacle to over come before I can enjoy E.

6mths HRT Facial changes do happen. I'm 46

My goodness, the changes are quite noticeable! You were blessed to be very pretty beforehand, but the enhancement is totally there. I get butterflies at the thought of finally having that outward confirmation, and seeing other people such as yourself gracefully and happily enjoying their transition... well, it brings tears to my eyes. Thank you for sharing

[Guest Ney'ite]

Your scent?! Really? It makes sense since your body chemistry is all changed, but this is really intriguing! Were you able to tell you smelled different? Or was it something someone surprised you with one day by asking about it?

It was actually my partner who noticed it and brought it to my attention. She often would remark on how different scent was, even sniffing me and commenting that I smell so nice - with only my shampoo I use (various scents such as deodorant, shampoo/conditioner, other hair products, etc, often will smell different on you now than they used to).

The make-up question is really mind boggling. I never thought of HRT giving the appearance of wearing make up, but I suppose the purpose of cosmetics is to enhance a feminine appearance. As your body was becoming more feminine, it stands to reason for someone not in-the-know, that they might ask that question. That's a good thing to keep in mind.

I had a couple of people actually ask me if I was wearing makeup, one being a friend who dumped me because he is too close-minded, and the other was my former boss, also male.

I am not doing any permanent facial hair removal yet. So that will definitely help in keeping it all under wraps for the time being.

Hehe - time will tell. ;-)

About the pronouns, were you presenting at a year and 4 months? I can't see anyone confusing me for a girl based on HRT alone, although how awesome would that be! Thanks for sharing!

I was for as long as I could remember, however, I did not pass so it was just very frustrating and discouraging. But I reached a point where I found myself starting to resent people who were doing their best to accept me but using the wrong pronouns and my old name. It was my fault because most told me to simply let them know when I would like them to switch, so one day I mustered the courage and asked them, and they graciously did. For me, I took my time with each baby step. Though when I reached a point around 17 or so months, I was actually finding myself being forced to legally change everything about me because if I ever had to show any I.D. - people would be confused, or people who knew me pre-transition would walk right past me and have no idea who I was.

I guess my take-away would be - do things when YOU and YOU ALONE are ready. Please do not let ANYONE rush you to doing anything. Or you may even find that your next baby step will be decided for you when people just start calling you by your target gender without anyone else confirming it for them.

Best wishes!

[Guest Donna Jean]

I know one post-op woman that still goes to work as male until she retires....

This is something I've thought about quite a bit. Somewhere down the line, I want the surgery. That much I know for sure. I have strong body dysphoria, etc, etc. But I don't know about committing to living all aspects of my life as a woman until I'd feel comfortable. However, if the Real Life Test is supposed to be a year of full time, how could your friend get SRS if she went to work as a man?

When she got her SRS ...it was overseas and there was no RLT required with her providers (just money.....lol)......

Dee Jay....

[Guest Shari]

Shy,

I've been on HRT for 6 months and have very slow but steady progress. No magic for me. I also know a few ladies who have not had dramatic fem changes except for breast growth. YMMV. There are lucky girls who seem to get it all.

The main thing about starting HRT for me was this incredible feeling of relief. Skin softness, breast growth, curves or whatever are a bonus as far as I'm concerned. I cannot imagine going back to life without HRT.

I laugh and I cry. I sing and tell stupid stories. I feel so much better now that I am alive.

Hugs,

Shari

[Guest Shy]

I guess my take-away would be - do things when YOU and YOU ALONE are ready. Please do not let ANYONE rush you to doing anything. Or you may even find that your next baby step will be decided for you when people just start calling you by your target gender without anyone else confirming it for them.

It seems so far away, the goal of living as a woman. Almost insurmountable. I feel like I've been taking my time, and biding it as well. I've always felt this is what I've wanted, and when I imagine it I get goosebumps (in a good way). To look in the mirror and see a feminine face staring back... Even the idea of smelling different makes me smile... I just get so afraid. I think back to being a teen and being "caught" having women's clothes by my parents. I must reassure myself that I am adult now, and only I know what's best for me. Thank you for giving me more details. It's very interesting.

When she got her SRS ...it was overseas and there was no RLT required with her providers (just money.....lol)......

Ah, I should've guessed it was something like that... One day I will have my SRS, but I honestly keep hoping some medical breakthrough regarding stem cells or something will happen. Lol, just some vague wish that they could make it more functional and such... oh do I ever like to dream...

The main thing about starting HRT for me was this incredible feeling of relief. Skin softness, breast growth, curves or whatever are a bonus as far as I'm concerned. I cannot imagine going back to life without HRT.

I laugh and I cry. I sing and tell stupid stories. I feel so much better now that I am alive.

That's how I see it. The peace of mind to know I am female, at the very least: hormonally, would quell the crazy thoughts that this is all in my head. I would love to have a beautiful body but in reality I am a hulking giant, and perhaps I can just be happy knowing I'm doing something about it. From that, I hope the confidence to be myself becomes easier to find. Thanks for replying Shari.

[Guest Ney'ite]

It seems so far away, the goal of living as a woman. Almost insurmountable. I feel like I've been taking my time, and biding it as well. I've always felt this is what I've wanted, and when I imagine it I get goosebumps (in a good way). To look in the mirror and see a feminine face staring back... Even the idea of smelling different makes me smile... I just get so afraid. I think back to being a teen and being "caught" having women's clothes by my parents. I must reassure myself that I am adult now, and only I know what's best for me. Thank you for giving me more details. It's very interesting.

I will give you that, Shy, as I felt that in the beginning, too. But as time progresses and you just take baby steps that are right for you, then you may even look back and be thankful you *did* take your time to transition. I have often heard it said that the VAST majority of transition is internal, not external. From what I have read, anatomy aside of course, the genetic differences between male and female are about 2%. If you can give estrogen to a genetically born male and they grow breasts, or testosterone to a genetically born female and they grow facial hair, to me much of anyone's transition is internal. As Shari said, it is the internal that most importantly comes at peace within ourselves. The external extras are bonuses.

Any genetically born woman who has had to have a full hysterectomy or single/double mastectomy is NO less a woman . . . the same easily applies for a genetically born male who perhaps has had to have a penectomy as he is NO less a man. Transplant a newborn from a small tribe hidden in the Amazon and place them with a family in NYC/San Diego/Dallas, they will grow up very differently from their beginnings. Swap it and the same would apply. Sure, they would appear different, but INTERNALLY they would be quite similar.

Gah, I am rambling and probably making it clear as mud - sorry! Feel free to PM me anytime Shy if you would like. *smiles*

[Guest Svenna]

Shy,

Hmmm, lots to consider in this great post so far, but let me add another tinkle in the pool...

I am 5 weeks into HRT. My skin is very soft and silky, my breasts are bona fide "A" cups already, I smell GREAT, my attitude is generally vastly superior, my nightmares are very few, my relationships are more genuine..

Most of these things are easily absorbed by the people around me, but I can sense that some people are already responding to me differently. Girls in the check-out talk to me like I am 'one of them' now and seem to invite me into their confidence easily. I sometimes wonder if they are starting to see me as a gay male, but I don't think they even realize that they are relating to me differently...

I too look like I am wearing makeup now and I am not. The skin tones around my eyes are changing as they are all over my face. It looks like I had makeup on and washed it off, leaving a trace of mascara and color around my eyes. I smell sweet now too, not acrid like a man, and I rarely use deodorant anymore, no real need for now..

I have to hide my breasts or they WILL be noticed. Often overlooked when asking about hiding breasts is hiding NIPPLES! One can argue that bigger breasts can pass as 'man-boobs' for a while, but how do you explain woman-size and shaped nipples? Especially when the 'headlights' are on full beam?

YMMV...so true, so true! HRT kick-started far faster changes than I had hoped for. My spouse says I shoulda been more careful what I wished for! lol...

I am trying to adjust to this hurry-up transition, but honestly, I am overwhelmed at the moment..

Take your time, be sure of your choices, do it right. You'll be glad you did...

Love, Svenna

[Drea]

I know people who been on hormones only for long term and felt no need for public transition. In the case of one in excess of 15 years.

Yes there are other things people may notice other than breast development but they generally aren't things that are going to make someone conclude that you must be trans. Though as this become more well known, maybe someone will?

As far as being to hide breast dev, well it can be done, but depends on a number of factors. If workplace allows loose clothing that usually will do it. In the most extreme cases it can be hard and very annoying to do, but possible.

I have heard arguments by some that one shouldn't start hormones unless one plans to transition and even heard of professionals stating that however others ague that if hormones work for the client, that it is okay as that is less drastic intervention than forcing the patient to go further than they wish.

In all such cases, I suggest discussing what you wish with a therapist.

[Cyndee]

I know one post-op woman that still goes to work as male until she retires....

This is something I've thought about quite a bit. Somewhere down the line, I want the surgery. That much I know for sure. I have strong body dysphoria, etc, etc. But I don't know about committing to living all aspects of my life as a woman until I'd feel comfortable. However, if the Real Life Test is supposed to be a year of full time, how could your friend get SRS if she went to work as a man?

When she got her SRS ...it was overseas and there was no RLT required with her providers (just money.....lol)......

Dee Jay....

Kind of scary really.