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LDS Therapist: "You aren't really trans because you aren't a sexual deviant."


Guest jdinatale

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Guest Elizabeth K

I am not that TEXT literate, but this may be where ROFLMAO is appropriate

ridiculous

Synonyms:ludicrous - laughable - absurd - funny - comical

Lizzie

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Guest jdinatale

The lady called my mom (I gave permission) and said, "I just deal with facts and your son is not a transsexual. I have worked in corrections for 30 years and I dealt with a bunch of transsexuals and your son definitely isn't one of them. He doesnt' meet the medical criteria and the 'checklist' and he is not a sexual deviant. He's straight as an arrow morally."

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  • Forum Moderator

Please may I never be at the mercy of such utter ignorance.

I find ignorance and that kind of bombastic certainty that often accompanies it to be one of the most annoying-and destructive things on earth.

Preserve us from those who know they are right without even knowing what right is! Millions have died through history.from people like that.

Johnny

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This is one of those moments that the ignorance is so thick a response to her would require a complete college education in psychology, which she clearly has never had, or at least not one that goes outside the church for it's information. I'm sitting here, mouth-open, trying to envision where to start. Mind-boggling stupidity. I might as well tell you you're not a human, because my checklist says that all humans have blue hair. You don't have blue hair, therefore you are not a human.

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Guest Karen K

I am dumbfounded over her assessment. You're not trans because you are not a sexual deviant? What kind of reasoning is this? By that criteria, I'm not trans either! But my therapist believes I am as does my endo. Whose medical criteria is she refering to? Someone needs to send her a copy of the SOC and a link to WPATH, as this woman lacks the necessary information/education to reach a valid diagnosys.

Laura Jane

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Guest Juniper Blue

Well, JD ... she has one think right ... you seem like a morally responsible young person (and unless you are an impostor trying to hurt people here on Laura's) I think that you have much to consider regarding your religion, culture, spiritual life and gender. There are many choices that can be made... there are supportive and affirming Christian Churches that you can seek counsel from as well.

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Guest Juniper Blue

Correction .. even if you are an impostor, ( which I think is unlikely) you have much to consider regarding your religion, culture, spiritual life and gender.

JD, I wish you well on your path to self-discovery... may it be a gentle one.

Hugs,

JB

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Guest Donna Jean

He doesnt' meet the medical criteria and the 'checklist' and he is not a sexual deviant.

Okaaaaaaaay.....so, that would make hundreds of us on this site " sexual deviants" by those standards.......

That's interesting to know......

Donna Jean

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The lady called my mom (I gave permission) and said, "I just deal with facts and your son is not a transsexual. I have worked in corrections for 30 years and I dealt with a bunch of transsexuals and your son definitely isn't one of them. He doesnt' meet the medical criteria and the 'checklist' and he is not a sexual deviant. He's straight as an arrow morally."

I feel very badly for you and your situation, jd...

I hope for your sake that you are eventually able to distance yourself from such widespread bigotry. Perhaps you cannot see it, but you have internalized a lot of this nonsense over the years and it is poisoning your life. I can't offer much advice in such a case except for you to endeavor to create a life without these negative influences all around you. Otherwise, I foresee many years of hateful conflict and self-condemnation as a likely consequence. There is no reconciling stupidity with reality, unfortunately...

Best to you as you bathe in such difficult waters...

Love, Svenna

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Guest jdinatale

I'm going back to see the therapist this Saturday. My mom says that I need to go "get straightened out." Since I live at home, I have to do what my parents say.

I was thinking about calling her out on some of her beliefs:

1. Why is being a sexual deviant necessary to be transgendered?

2. What 'medical criteria' and checklist is she using and who wrote them?

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I'm going back to see the therapist this Saturday. My mom says that I need to go "get straightened out." Since I live at home, I have to do what my parents say.

I was thinking about calling her out on some of her beliefs:

1. Why is being a sexual deviant necessary to be transgendered?

2. What 'medical criteria' and checklist is she using and who wrote them?

Again, I'll say what I believe to be true...

Distance yourself from such ignorance. Until you do, these people will spin your head around endlessly. Eventually they will wear you down or wear you out. Neither outcome will serve your real needs...

That is my best, most forthright advice, based on experience and education, served with love and compassion...

Take it or leave it, it is the best I can offer...

Love, Svenna

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Guest Elizabeth K

My advice is a bit skewed here, and please don't take it the wrong way. You are being forced by this therapist to undergo "repairitive therapy," which has been proven as immoral and unethical. I would just refuse to cooperate with this therapist. Don't answer another question. Don't say a single word for any reason. Stonewall and make this person resign in frustration.

This means it will appear to your mom that you are going against her wishes, so there may be repercussions. Actually you are not disobeying her at all but protecting yourself from a personal attack, as you mom has been tricked. Be clear in telling your mom, you are just not coopeating with a therapist who's intent is to harm you. Tell your mother you will cooperate with a real gender dysphoria trained therapist, but not this unqualified person. A real gender dysphoria trained therapist can determine if you are transgenderl or not.

Lizzie

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Guest Leah1026

I'm going back to see the therapist this Saturday. My mom says that I need to go "get straightened out." [Translation: Re-programmed to follow the LDS way] Since I live at home, I have to do what my parents say.

This person is NOT a gender therapist so her opinion is irrelevant. She is looking to take advantage of your confusion to steer you back into the ways of the church. She will make is all sound so logical, but in reality what she is teaching you to do is repress your true self. And it may work for a few months, or maybe even years, but it will eventually come back out because you can't deny your true self. It sucks you dependent on your folks, who clearly aren't supportive, and being coerced into what I would call reparative therapy. And this is wht the Standards of Care say about that kind of therapy:

"Treatment aimed at trying to change a person’s gender identity and expression to become more congruent with sex assigned at birth has been attempted in the past without success (Gelder & Marks, 1969; Greenson, 1964), particularly in the long term (Cohen-Kettenis & Kuiper, 1984; Pauly, 1965). Such treatment is no longer considered ethical."

Contact this group: http://www.affirmation.org/

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Guest jdinatale

I'm going back to see the therapist this Saturday. My mom says that I need to go "get straightened out." [Translation: Re-programmed to follow the LDS way] Since I live at home, I have to do what my parents say.

This person is NOT a gender therapist so her opinion is irrelevant. She is looking to take advantage of your confusion to steer you back into the ways of the church. She will make is all sound so logical, but in reality what she is teaching you to do is repress your true self. And it may work for a few months, or maybe even years, but it will eventually come back out because you can't deny your true self. It sucks you dependent on your folks, who clearly aren't supportive, and being coerced into what I would call reparative therapy. And this is wht the Standards of Care say about that kind of therapy:

"Treatment aimed at trying to change a person’s gender identity and expression to become more congruent with sex assigned at birth has been attempted in the past without success (Gelder & Marks, 1969; Greenson, 1964), particularly in the long term (Cohen-Kettenis & Kuiper, 1984; Pauly, 1965). Such treatment is no longer considered ethical."

Contact this group: http://www.affirmation.org/

I like that quote and would like to show it to her and my other therapists, where did you get it from?

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  • Admin

I like that quote and would like to show it to her and my other therapists, where did you get it from?

From the WPATH Standards of Care, Version 7, here: http://www.wpath.org/documents/Standards%20of%20Care%20V7%20-%202011%20WPATH.pdf

If your therapist knew anything about gender dysphoria, she would be very familiar with this document.

Carolyn Marie

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Guest RadioheadRachael

It is abundantly clear to me that your therapist just said this to tell your family trans people are sexual deviants. She's trying to manipulate your family into not supporting you. This the way your therapist hopes it develops.

1. Therapist tells sister you aren't trans because trans people are sexual deviants.

2. Your family tells you aren't trans because you aren't a sexual deviant.

3. You tell them, no you ARE trans.

4. Your family then says, "well you must be a sexual deviant then."

Suddenly you are the sexual deviant and your family would never support sexual deviancy!

This is disgusting manipulation for a supposed therapist and constitutes abuse.

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Guest jdinatale

Well, I drove back down the 2.5 hours to see the therapist once more, this time with my Dad.

I called her out on it, I said, "What exactly are you referring to when you say 'medical criteria for being transgender' and exact what is this 'checklist' you speak of?"

She said the DSM and told me that I wasn't trans because according to the DSM, if I was I would have the following:

-genital mutilation

-bodily hatred

-a female oriented career path (serious? is this really 2012? Are there no female investment bankers?)

-a female social group. She said that since I had male friends in junior high and high school that I didn't fit this one either.

-If I was really trans, I wouldn't have done male oriented sports like boxing and wrestling during high school. I mean let's pretend that female fighters don't exist for a moment.

She insisted that she worked in prisons for 30 years and she knows what 'real' transgender people are like and that I'm too morally straight to be one. Heaven forbid a transgender person have upstanding character.

Then she said that I had cognitive dissonance where I just 'think' that I am transgender.

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Guest Elizabeth K

Well, I drove back down the 2.5 hours to see the therapist once more, this time with my Dad.

I called her out on it, I said, "What exactly are you referring to when you say 'medical criteria for being transgender' and exact what is this 'checklist' you speak of?"

She said the DSM and told me that I wasn't trans because according to the DSM, if I was I would have the following:

-genital mutilation

-bodily hatred

-a female oriented career path (serious? is this really 2012? Are there no female investment bankers?)

-a female social group. She said that since I had male friends in junior high and high school that I didn't fit this one either.

-If I was really trans, I wouldn't have done male oriented sports like boxing and wrestling during high school. I mean let's pretend that female fighters don't exist for a moment.

She insisted that she worked in prisons for 30 years and she knows what 'real' transgender people are like and that I'm too morally straight to be one. Heaven forbid a transgender person have upstanding character.

Then she said that I had cognitive dissonance where I just 'think' that I am transgender.

You know my opinion on this. Confronting her is futile as she is playing cards that you cannot match. Get out from under this, or you are in for a bucket of misery. It's called repairative therapy, and it is evil.

"And that is all I have to say about that." (Forrest Gump)

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  • Forum Moderator

I don't know if you're still in high school or not. If you are I guess that you're stuck under your parents rules. But, if you're old enough to leave- get out of there. There are groups who help to shelter and find jobs for young peoploe that are forced to flee from the LDS handlers. I'm truly afraid that if you don't get out, there is going to be not only a lot of sorrow in your life, but also your familys. At least the Amish will allow their kids to leave and see if they want to live in the Englis world or return home to the fold.

I realize that there are major decisions to make in your life. But,major decisions must be made.

I got a laugh from her comment that you were not trans because you had male buddies and played sports. Heck, that's one of the biggest MTF gigs going. They try their best to be manly and do all of the manly things, but deep inside they hate themselves for it.

And, on the issue of her treating inmate Trans people. She sure has made their life pure h...l while in prison. It's hard enough doing time without some stupid jackass of a so-called Psyc putting them into reparative therpathy and then sitting back and laughing at them behind their backs. She's licky one of them hasn't chucked her off.

Mike

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Guest Juniper Blue

Dear JD,

Is it possible to talk to your parents and let them know how you are feeling ... that this is hurting you and that you would like them to go with you to a qualified gender therapist in exchange for their having made you go to this woman? Perhaps insist on this "deal."

Can you refuse to go again?

This seems like a such a difficult and painful experience. I am so sorry that you are going through this.

Hugs,

JB

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Well, I drove back down the 2.5 hours to see the therapist once more, this time with my Dad.

I called her out on it, I said, "What exactly are you referring to when you say 'medical criteria for being transgender' and exact what is this 'checklist' you speak of?"

She said the DSM and told me that I wasn't trans because according to the DSM, if I was I would have the following:

-genital mutilation

-bodily hatred

-a female oriented career path (serious? is this really 2012? Are there no female investment bankers?)

-a female social group. She said that since I had male friends in junior high and high school that I didn't fit this one either.

-If I was really trans, I wouldn't have done male oriented sports like boxing and wrestling during high school. I mean let's pretend that female fighters don't exist for a moment.

She insisted that she worked in prisons for 30 years and she knows what 'real' transgender people are like and that I'm too morally straight to be one. Heaven forbid a transgender person have upstanding character.

Then she said that I had cognitive dissonance where I just 'think' that I am transgender.

I have no idea what DSM she's reading, but these characteristics do not come from either the DSM-III (where transsexualism was first introduced) or the current DSM-IV (which modernizes the understanding, including changing the name to Gender Identity Disorder)

In the United States, the American Psychiatric Association permits a diagnosis of gender identity disorder if the four diagnostic criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4thEdition, Text-Revised (DSM-IV-TR) are met. The criteria are:

  • Long-standing and strong identification with another gender

  • Long-standing disquiet about the sex assigned or a sense of incongruity in the gender-assigned role of that sex

  • The diagnosis is not made if the individual also has physical intersex characteristics.

  • Significant clinical discomfort or impairment at work, social situations, or other important life areas.

If the four criteria are met under the DSM-IV-TR, a diagnosis is made under ICD-9 code 302.85. See the classification and external resources sidebar at right for other diagnostic codes for gender identity disorder.

The International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10) list three diagnostic criteria:

Transsexualism (F64.0) has three criteria:[9]

  1. The desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by the wish to make his or her body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatment
  2. The transsexual identity has been present persistently for at least two years
  3. The disorder is not a symptom of another mental disorder or a chromosomal abnormality

Uncertainty about gender identity which causes anxiety or stress is diagnosed as sexual maturation disorder.

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  • Admin

Your therapist knows nothing, and worse, is making stuff up as she goes in order to disguise the fact that she knows nothing. She is a fraud, an incompetent, and a liar.

I urge you to never see this person again. She does not have your best interests at heart; she has her own misguided philosophy leading her. She will, and is, doing you harm.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

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Guest ~Brenda~

She said the DSM and told me that I wasn't trans because according to the DSM, if I was I would have the following:

-genital mutilation

-bodily hatred

-a female oriented career path (serious? is this really 2012? Are there no female investment bankers?)

-a female social group. She said that since I had male friends in junior high and high school that I didn't fit this one either.

-If I was really trans, I wouldn't have done male oriented sports like boxing and wrestling during high school. I mean let's pretend that female fighters don't exist for a moment.

No...

And Enough...

You have already been told numerous times that this "therapist" is full of it. Don't ever think for a second we can ever be fooled.

Nice try, but it don't fly.

Brenda

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Guest Leah1026

Well, I drove back down the 2.5 hours to see the therapist once more, this time with my Dad.

I called her out on it, I said, "What exactly are you referring to when you say 'medical criteria for being transgender' and exact what is this 'checklist' you speak of?"

She said the DSM and told me that I wasn't trans because according to the DSM, if I was I would have the following:

-genital mutilation

-bodily hatred

-a female oriented career path (serious? is this really 2012? Are there no female investment bankers?)

-a female social group. She said that since I had male friends in junior high and high school that I didn't fit this one either.

-If I was really trans, I wouldn't have done male oriented sports like boxing and wrestling during high school. I mean let's pretend that female fighters don't exist for a moment.

She insisted that she worked in prisons for 30 years and she knows what 'real' transgender people are like and that I'm too morally straight to be one. Heaven forbid a transgender person have upstanding character.

Then she said that I had cognitive dissonance where I just 'think' that I am transgender.

She's a moron who's trying to twist the facts to make you doubt yourself and come back to the flock. She is dangerous and I would advise not see her again.

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