Side Effects Of Estradiol Pills

[Guest Angelgrlsue]

Hi everyone

I am having some severe side effects from starting Estradiol pills again. A little background follows. I recently changed doctors for my HRT, he is closer to where I live. When I first came to see him which was last year, I was still taking the injections which did not give me much side effects, except for increased libido. When I started seeing this new doctor his first comment was that I was on a too high dose of the injected medicine, Estradiol Valerate IM, believe me I was taking the normal dose most pre-op women take, he also informed me that my estrogen levels need to be at a post menapausel woman's level, WRONG!. He convinced me to start taking the patch due to my age and because I would have a steady stream of the estrogen in my blood, he did not want me to have spikes from the injections, I never had those. He put me on the patch and whithin a month my body hair came back, I began to become irritable, aggressive and short tempered all the time. I had to call the doctor and tell him what was going on, he put me back on the pills on a low dose, when I first started HRT I was on the pills. Since being back on the pills I have been experience really severe blood circulation problems in my hands and feet, so much that it hurts and is definately interfering with my everyday life. It is warm where I live today and I am freezing right now while I am typing. I also am experience dizziness, low back pain and achy feeling behind my neck. I saw my doctor last week and told him what was going on and wanted to go back on the injections, he said he did not want me coming into the office so much to have the injections, in other words it was a polite way of saying he did not want to see me much, instead he upped the dose of the Estradiol. No change, I am freaking freezing!!! Last time I went through this was when I was on the pills before and taking Spiro, I ended up in the hospital. Not taking Spiro anymore, instead have been taking Finasteride. I do have an appointment with the community clinic where I first started my HRT, it is not until May though. Do not know what to do or to turn right now. I am really scared that I am going to end up in the hospital again, or even worse not be able to take hormones anymore. All I wanted to do is go back on the injections, no major side effects with that, I even had some breast growth from the injections. Now I am basically stuck on the pills. This doctor I am seeing kind of lied to me when he said he has worked with transgender patients before, I really do not think he knows what to do since he keeps saying to me that he will confer with my previous doctor at the community clinic. I am SO........peed.

Susan

[Paula ult]

Susan, even though your old doctor was further away is there any way that you could go back to him, if injections were working for you i would try to stay on them if possible, i assume that you were going to your old doctor every two weeks for the shot, is there any way you could learn to give yourself the shots, a nurse could show you how.

It seems allot of doctors want us at menapausel woman's levels, my surgeon told me to continue taking my pre op dosage, my endo wanted to cut it till i told him what my surgeon told me, then he said oh ok.

Paula

[Guest Angelgrlsue]

Hi Paula

My previous doctor is the one I made the appointment with that is not until May. He works at the community clinic, infact all the doctors that work there at the special clinic put their patients on the injections. Yes I am going to ask to be shown how to do the injections myself. I can just use a magnifier to see what I am doing when loading the syringe.

Susan

[Guest Elizabeth K]

It was working for you - tell this new doctor you want to stay as you were. If he fusses - find someone else. Estrogen has a HUGE effect on us - and it's different for each one of us. We are already in the same danger zone as women on maintenance HRT. So why drop the levels to a point that causes bad effects?

Just my opinion.

Lizzie

[Guest Nicholas]

This opinion might make me unpopular with the mods, but it's situations like these that are why I absolutely do not trust a single doctor's word on anything. Each practitioner has their own ways of going about things, and they don't like going outside their comfort zone; I've read too many heart-breaking stories exactly like this, where a person finally manages to get a treatment plan that works, and then they eventually need to get a new physician for whatever reason, and the new one pressures the patient into throwing out the old method, and fitting in the mold that they're used to or comfortable with-- often to the extreme detriment of the patient, who becomes newly miserable and ill! Why do these people insist on "fixing" what's not broken? Thing is, I know-- because they have their own ideas about what "should" work, and refuse to acknowledge or believe in a "lowly" patient's knowledge of their actual experiences.

Unfortunately, the option of getting multiple opinions from other doctors isn't affordable for many people. I don't think there's anything one can do but resist when a doctor tries to pressure you into doing something you realize isn't right for you, and be firm that you need to stay with what works. But that stinks, because it shouldn't be the patient's job to defend themselves from doctors... It should be the doctors that sincerely do what's best, and actually listen to what the patient says. I just wish that was reality. Sigh.

(As a disclaimer, no, I don't self-medicate or anything; I am lucky to have a pretty good doctor right now. In the past, though, I have experienced a similar situation, and by sharing it I learned of MANY others who had experienced the same. It's not an uncommon reality, even if it isn't pleasant to acknowledge. Climbing off the soapbox now.)

I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I hope you can get back into a treatment that actually works for you, and get a doctor who actually listens to you and your experience.

[Paula ult]

Nicholas, i happen to agree with what you said, my Endo likes putting people over the age of 40 on patches, i was allergic to the adhesive so he switched me to pills, one of my housemates who goes to a different doctor is on injections at a slightly higher dosage than i am taking, it seems there are as many opinions as to how to treat us as there are doctors. As i wrote above i see no reasoning behind why those treating us want us at post menapausel hormone levels either before or after surgery other than thinking it will reduce side effects, in other words CYA.

Everyone, not only those of us that are transitioning need to keep up to date with new drugs and procedures for any medical conditions we may have and advocate for ourselves, in 2001 i had a heart attack, one stint was inserted, everything has been fine since, in 2006 my cardiologist suggested i have a pacemaker/defibulator inserted even though i had no problems, i questioned him as to why, he could not give me a logical answer, i told him no, his nurse even came out as i was waiting later to get me to have it done, later i found out he was in partnership with a doctor that sells and implants pacemakers/defibulators, it was all about the almighty dollar, i wonder how many people that did not need them got them because they blindly trusted their doctor, BTW i do not see him anymore.

Susan, getting back to your topic, i missed where you were going back to your clinic doctor, sorry, i am glad that you will be getting back to him. I will be asking my endo when i see him next month that i want to switch to injections, he was receptive to the idea but after explaining that i might get low towards the end of the two weeks i decided to stay on pills, i was scared i could not do them myself but my housemate showed me how it is done.

Paula

[Guest ZoeG360]

I am just getting started on the hormone track so I have no "road experience" however if the getting injections themselves is the core of the problem you might try looking for a shot clinic. Here in Minneapolis, the Trans Health Colaition runs a shot clinic so you don't have to deal with paying for a doctors office visit, don't have to deal with the syringes, dosages, etc. I think that all you need is the prescription.

Maybe there is something near you like that.

[Guest Angelgrlsue]

Thank you for your replies. Zoe, no there is not a needle exhchange that I am aware of in my area. I will see if I can get a new prescription for Estradiol Valerate at the community clinic, they have my medical records and I am still hooked up with them, if they can call it in to the pharmacy I can pick it up and then arrange to have a nurse at the clinic to show me how to inject, that way I can do them myself and wait to see the doctor at the clinic in May and be on the injections already. Can just pick up where I left when I switched to the patches and then pills. Will also see if I can get in to see the doctor sooner at the clinic if there is a cancellation or something. I am no longer seeing this new doctor I have been going to, he only did one blood test on me when I first saw him, that was about six months ago now. It is like this, if you have money or good insurance they will do everything they can to help you, if not, good luck. There are very few doctors in my area that are willing to see you for trans HRT if you are on a low income like myself. The community clinic is the only place I know of that works with the trans community.

Susan

[Guest Angelgrlsue]

I have an update and it is not all that good. The past couple of days I have noticed my urine to be very dark in color, infact dark brown to be exact. With this I have been experiencing low back pain and espcially on the right side of my back along with the blood circulation problems and now inflamed intestines. I called my primary doctor's office today after I returned home from paying bills and his nurse called me back, she is a Triage nurse. She believes I may have a kidney infection but she is not a doctor so cannot confirm this, I go in tomorrow morning to see my doctor. This is not new to me because I went through this before when I was first put on Estradiol pills, I developed a kidney infection and a possible kidney stone. That is when I switched to the injections to bypass the liver and kidneys. If this is what I think it is, I am going back on the injections immediately and staying on them. No more switching around, my body can no longer take it.

Susan

[Guest Shari]

Susan,

We'll be thinking of you and hoping the tests go well. I'm sorry you have to go through this.

Hugs,

Shari

[Guest Leah1026]

I am having some severe side effects from starting Estradiol pills again. A little background follows. I recently changed doctors for my HRT, he is closer to where I live. When I first came to see him which was last year, I was still taking the injections which did not give me much side effects, except for increased libido. When I started seeing this new doctor his first comment was that I was on a too high dose of the injected medicine, Estradiol Valerate IM, believe me I was taking the normal dose most pre-op women take, he also informed me that my estrogen levels need to be at a post menopausal woman's level, WRONG!. He convinced me to start taking the patch due to my age and because I would have a steady stream of the estrogen in my blood, he did not want me to have spikes from the injections, I never had those. He put me on the patch and whithin a month my body hair came back, I began to become irritable, aggressive and short tempered all the time. I had to call the doctor and tell him what was going on, he put me back on the pills on a low dose, when I first started HRT I was on the pills. Since being back on the pills I have been experience really severe blood circulation problems in my hands and feet, so much that it hurts and is definately interfering with my everyday life. It is warm where I live today and I am freezing right now while I am typing. I also am experience dizziness, low back pain and achy feeling behind my neck. I saw my doctor last week and told him what was going on and wanted to go back on the injections, he said he did not want me coming into the office so much to have the injections, in other words it was a polite way of saying he did not want to see me much, instead he upped the dose of the Estradiol. No change, I am freaking freezing!!! Last time I went through this was when I was on the pills before and taking Spiro, I ended up in the hospital. Not taking Spiro anymore, instead have been taking Finasteride. I do have an appointment with the community clinic where I first started my HRT, it is not until May though. Do not know what to do or to turn right now. I am really scared that I am going to end up in the hospital again, or even worse not be able to take hormones anymore. All I wanted to do is go back on the injections, no major side effects with that, I even had some breast growth from the injections. Now I am basically stuck on the pills.

1. This guy doesn't know what he's doing.

2. Your symptoms sound like someone who's dosage is too low IMO.

3. You don't need to go to the office for injections; you can do them yourself.

4. Some doctors still cling to old, untrue, negative stereotypes. Hold onto your hat now. They actually think giving us needles and syringes will turn us into drug addicts. I'm not making this up, some of them actually believe that.

5. Finasteride is NOT a testosterone blocker. How many times do I have to repeat that here at Laura's Playground? Used as such is is very weak; basically useless.

6. Different methods work for different people and a good doctor realizes that. Like you, injectables work great for me. I suggest you switch back.

7. Here's the part that really blows my mind: Pills are LESS safe than patches or injectables. This is because pills make 2 passes through your liver instead of the single pass the other methods do. People over about 40 should be on patches or injectables.

8. I doubt any connection between the pills and possibly having a kidney infection; it's probably just coincidental.

Hope this helps.

[Guest Angelgrlsue]

I am having some severe side effects from starting Estradiol pills again. A little background follows. I recently changed doctors for my HRT, he is closer to where I live. When I first came to see him which was last year, I was still taking the injections which did not give me much side effects, except for increased libido. When I started seeing this new doctor his first comment was that I was on a too high dose of the injected medicine, Estradiol Valerate IM, believe me I was taking the normal dose most pre-op women take, he also informed me that my estrogen levels need to be at a post menopausal woman's level, WRONG!. He convinced me to start taking the patch due to my age and because I would have a steady stream of the estrogen in my blood, he did not want me to have spikes from the injections, I never had those. He put me on the patch and whithin a month my body hair came back, I began to become irritable, aggressive and short tempered all the time. I had to call the doctor and tell him what was going on, he put me back on the pills on a low dose, when I first started HRT I was on the pills. Since being back on the pills I have been experience really severe blood circulation problems in my hands and feet, so much that it hurts and is definately interfering with my everyday life. It is warm where I live today and I am freezing right now while I am typing. I also am experience dizziness, low back pain and achy feeling behind my neck. I saw my doctor last week and told him what was going on and wanted to go back on the injections, he said he did not want me coming into the office so much to have the injections, in other words it was a polite way of saying he did not want to see me much, instead he upped the dose of the Estradiol. No change, I am freaking freezing!!! Last time I went through this was when I was on the pills before and taking Spiro, I ended up in the hospital. Not taking Spiro anymore, instead have been taking Finasteride. I do have an appointment with the community clinic where I first started my HRT, it is not until May though. Do not know what to do or to turn right now. I am really scared that I am going to end up in the hospital again, or even worse not be able to take hormones anymore. All I wanted to do is go back on the injections, no major side effects with that, I even had some breast growth from the injections. Now I am basically stuck on the pills.

1. This guy doesn't know what he's doing.

2. Your symptoms sound like someone who's dosage is too low IMO.

3. You don't need to go to the office for injections; you can do them yourself.

4. Some doctors still cling to old, untrue, negative stereotypes. Hold onto your hat now. They actually think giving us needles and syringes will turn us into drug addicts. I'm not making this up, some of them actually believe that.

5. Finasteride is NOT a testosterone blocker. How many times do I have to repeat that here at Laura's Playground? Used as such is is very weak; basically useless.

6. Different methods work for different people and a good doctor realizes that. Like you, injectables work great for me. I suggest you switch back.

7. Here's the part that really blows my mind: Pills are LESS safe than patches or injectables. This is because pills make 2 passes through your liver instead of the single pass the other methods do. People over about 40 should be on patches or injectables.

8. I doubt any connection between the pills and possibly having a kidney infection; it's probably just coincidental.

Hope this helps.

Hi Leah. Thank you for your advice, since you say Finasteride is not a T blocker then what can I take instead? I am unable to take Spironolactone due to my blood pressure dropping too dangerously low. Not able to afford an Orchi, otherwise I would have had that done already.

I saw the doctor today and he did a Urine test and found a lot of blood in my urine, too much to let go. I am scheduled to have a CATSCAN done next week and he did some intensive blood work today. I am also to see a Urologist next week to be tested for any tumors or possible cancer down below.

Susan

[Guest Leah1026]

Thank you for your advice, since you say Finasteride is not a T blocker then what can I take instead? I am unable to take Spironolactone due to my blood pressure dropping too dangerously low. Not able to afford an Orchi, otherwise I would have had that done already.

You have two options:

1. Go with estrogen alone. Estrogen by itself is an anti-androgen. Follow-up lab tests should tell you if it is effectively keeping the T depressed.

2. Androcur is used in most other countries instead of Spiro. Unfortunately it is not FDA approved here in the US, but some people use it anyway. It requires regular lab tests to check your liver function.

One more note: Although Finasteride isn't a good testosterone blocker, it does a fairly good job on DHT. So if you have any hair loss issues, maybe it would be better to stay on it.

[Guest Angelgrlsue]

Thank you Leah. I have heard about Adrocur before and what I have read is that it can cause liver damage more so than Spiro. I origionally took Finasteride for hair loss treatment before I started HRT so yes I will stay on that medicine. Will just opt for taking the Estrogen alone and hope somehow that the Estrogen alone will overthrow the Testosterone. The doctor I saw at the community clinci who started my HRT program said that the Estrogen will take over the Testosterone eventually, just have to give it time. So, I am going back to the clinic and getting back on a more vigrous HRT program that will at least give me the correct dosage. No more playing around with a doctor who does not know anything about transgender hormone care. Thank you Leah.

Susan

[Guest Angelgrlsue]

A little update. I heard back from my primary doctor on the blood tests he gave. They are all normal. I have an appointment with the Urologist on the 27th of Feb and have my CATSCAN done on the 21st of Feb. Urine is back to normal.

Susan

[JJ]

Sounds like good news Susan. So glad things so far are normal and your urine has returned to normal. Maybe it was a stone and is no longer an issue? I hope so.

I know the wait to see tthe urologist is nerve wracking but the good news on the test should help. I'll still keep you in my thoughts

Hugs

Johnny