Confusion, Awkwardness and Music

[Guest Pheonix]

Just a quick warning, this is kinda long and nonsensical and was mostly written because I had to say it somewhere. So yeah.. you have been warned of the following post's quality

As the story goes I've been reading the posts on here for a few months now, but have been to nervous to really interact. But I figured that not posting wasn't do any help getting me where I need to be. Wherever that is. So here we go, from the start.

When I was growing up, my parents would pay little heed to social gender norms. They let my brother wear dresses if he wanted and treated me similarly, but I always let my thoughts of what people might think get in the way of such actions. Even at an early age I understood that broader society was uncomfortable with people's gender being anything less than binary. I remember once after seeing a family friend, a girl, wearing stockings I decided that I wanted to wear them and my parents encouraged it. This then led to comments from my fellow young human beings about how they were for girls and I ceased such actions. After that point I would have an immediate strong distaste for wearing anything girly or having feminine traits, at least when I thought people were paying attention. When there were times that for whatever reason it was deemed socially acceptable for me to display such an interest (e.g. fancy dress parties and the like) or sometimes when I was alone, I would grasp them, but try to hide my enthusiasim (poorly).

I remember two specific examples. Once when I was about 8 or 9 a female friend of my brother's was at our house and she decided that it would be fun to dress us up as (facilitated by the families non gender specific fancy dress box), and act like, girls. I was on the surface resistant to this but I think somewhere inside I was relishing it... but I never said anything. Some time after this I remember once when I was home and my mum was sleeping. I picked out the feminine clothes from the box, which I liked the most and dressed up in the bathroom. I think I may have misguidedly tried to use my mum's lipstick, but oh well. After that I walk in, from memory, a sparkly silver dress back to my room and looked in the mirror and was quite pleased with myself. The I heard my mum getting up and quickly got undressed and dressed, storing the girls clothes in a box for safekeeping. But after that I didn't dress again for a very long time. Something about my family always being around and the awkwardness that I felt would ensue if they caught me stopped me from it.

Also somewhere around that age and younger I remember having dreams in which some sort of power would come along and change me into a girl. Sometimes they would be from the first person perspective of someone I knew. As if I didn't want to admit that these thought's were actually happening to me.

Anyway up untill 13-14 all those feelings stayed dormant and I would continue to get annoyed and confused by any overtly feminine clothing or traits of mine. I remember though on a school camp another guy asked me if I was straight, bi or gay... and after or moment I said "Bi" very definitely, despite the fact that I'd never thought about it. After that I ended up researching various different things to do with sexuality on the internet. Eventually stumbling across the word and definition of Transexual. The more I read, the more it made sense with various childhood experiences and fit with me. After that... my memory is a little fuzzy. I remember I kept researching transexualism and came to self diagnose myself with gender disphoria. And soon after I decided to come out to my family. At the time my brother knew I was Bi and assured me out parents wouldn't care. So I asked my family to the lounge room and after a moment of my heart nervously pounding, I said "So I'm Bi..." to which my parents expressions seemed to read "Oh ok cool, what's for lunch?" not really caring. But I followed it with ".......and I'm think I'm transexual" which recieved more quizzical looks and I think I quickly left the room without saying anything. In the hours following I stayed in my room busying myself and whenever one of my parents came in to talk about it, I simply pushed them because I found it to difficult to talk about.

I think in heindsight I wasn't emotionally ready to even comprehend a concept like being transgendered, but whatever it was a lot of the memories from after that time I ended up supressing or repressing.

For the rest of the time from then up until the last few months, I basically forgot about that part of myself. But occassionally when I was upset or drunk or both. I would go on big sobbing, crying rants about how every day I put on happy mask that wasn't me... something that I'm sure all teens have felt but that I think linked back to my issues with gender. But simultaeneously I started to take pride in expressing little bits of femininity, where I could without people thinking to ill of it. If I was wearing women jeans or shoes and nobody noticed it made me kinda happy. And when I suddenly lost lots of weight when I was 17 one of my favourite things was the fact that I had a waist, a quite pronounced one at that. Once I lost weight I started to get annoyed that I couldn't find clothes that showed off my skinniness and my waist. They always seemed too baggy. I also started to notice myself really, really identifying with fictional characters that had some sort of gender issues, without really recognising why. And I noticed myself really buying into more romantic aspects of tv shows and films and liking female targeted ones.

Then late last year, I was 18 at the time, it suddenly all clicked for me. I remembered all my gender dysphoric memories and started to piece it together again and again started researching transgenderism, and everything around it, on the 'net. And wow what a difference a few years can make to the availability of information, or maybe I got better at looking for it. But suddenly I was easily able to find information about the scientific theories behind being transgendered, the details of transition. What can be accomplished through hormones and surgeries, and what can't. The legal and social problems transpeople face. And most importantly countless stories from trans people all over the world, about their live before, after and during transition. After all of this hit me I started to mention it to a couple of my close friends and they we're all supportive, but due to confusion as to how 100% these feelings were (are), and general awkwardness, I didn't want to harp on about it. I wanted to figure it out for me, before figuring it out for the rest of the world.

So I continued to do a lot of brooding and reading. Then acquired myself some for fitting womens jeans, that mostly fit my form... mostly, and intergrated them into my wardrobe. Late at night I started experimenting with my mum's makeup, with suprisingly good results! I also started observing the way women held themselves and moved, and started to copy it. All the feminine, or non masculine, movements felt right. And once when my whole family was out of the house for a few days, I put on makeup, my womens jeans, my most feminine t-shirt and a bra filled with plastic bags of rice, and looked at myself in the mirror. The person I saw looking back at me... it was definitely "me", not quite right but more me than I'd ever felt.

Then after ever more brooding, I do a lot of brooding....... we'll I do a lot of sitting around thinking with a dumb look on my face, but it's way more fun to call it brooding!, I started to have doubts. I started to have problems discerning what about me would change/I would want to change through transition and kinda came to the realisation that I wouldn't want to change that much. I'd just feel free to express myself. I wouldn't have that little feeling in my head that "you can't do that, that's what girls do". But I kinda feel that somehow it would be dishonest or decietful to transition while maintaining masculine charactaristics, that people would expect me to want to be 100% guy or girly-girl. It's these thoughts that make up alot of my confusion over this issue. And probably the biggest example, as mentioned in the thread title, is music.

Music is quite possibly the single largest part of my life and I wouldn't give it up for the world. Specifically I sing and play guitar, currently in a punk band. And one of the things I feel is that even if I could transition to be completely passable off stage, I don't know if I'd want to be on stage. At least at this point in my music I have a strong stage presence and performance. The way I behave on stage is probably decidedly masculine and if I transitioned it would stay so. Feminine elements would certainly make their way in, but there would be no way someone could look at the stage and say with all confidence that "that's a girl up there", and that's not even taking into account my voice. I have a deep powerful baritone, that is decidedly masculine and I might be able to train to sound more feminine, basically singing in head voice. And as I mentioned before, I don't think I really would want to. I like being able to sing in a low bluesy growl. Something about trying to reconcile these seemingly opposite feeling is difficult but I don't hate myself! I look in the mirror at my face and I don't really see someone who is male or female. But I know I want it to become more female. At the same time there are traditionally masculine aspects of myself and some of my behaviour that I like, nay love. Yet I feel like the expectation is that I should jettison all my masculine aspects if I transitioned. I feel that if I don't, I would in some way be being untrue to my chosen gender.

Ugh anyway there's a lot more I would've like to write, and probably should have written less, but this is waaaaaaay, waaaaay to rambly and outta hand so I'll leave it here.

Thank you to anyone who read this.... and also sorry 'cause it was really bad!

[MaryEllen]

Hello Pheonix,

Welcome to Laura's Playground. Thank you for sharing your story with us.

MaryEllen

[Guest Krisina]

Hi Phoenix. Welcome to Lauras playground. I'm glad you found us and nice that 18 you clicked, and were able to find more info on the web too. I think for many people they don't hate who they see in the mirror either but, but they wish it was a physically looking female staring back for mtf, or a physically looking male for ftm. The voice is something that wouldn't change with hrt for mtf like it does for ftm. Yes, voice training is something you could always do too.

Now that your here, why not grab some chocolate chip cookies and milk. We have apple juice too as an option.

Krisina

[Guest Maria_B]

Hello, friend!

Nice of you to drop by, thank you for sharing your story with us, its not as nonsensical as you might think, and you're always welcome to just share things with us. Good or bad, happy or sad.

I look forward to seeing you around, your post was intelligent and well written. (Hey, Australians are just there, babe, we're just there).

Feel free to Private Message me when you reach 5 posts, if'n you just want to chat!

And again, welcome... Welcome.

Love and hugs. (Oh, and also, virtual sweets).

[Cyndee]

HI Pheonix, very well written intro and welcome.

I relate to your story and being in bands, I am currently in 2 active projects (90's covers and Southern Rock band). My band mates see parts of her and I take jokes about it all the time, however I still present male onstage when we gig. I suppose as I get further along she will just be there onstage, I am reaching the point where I just don't hide it much anymore, and so what.

Good luck with your journey and we look forward to reading more of your posts here.

Hugs

Cindy -

[Sally]

Hi Pheonix, welcome to the forums.

No real rules about gender expression here - no binary concept, instead a scale from none at all to completely both.

Here is a little thought for you, society is changing their views on gender, slowly but they are changing, this generation is starting from a place of more tolerance and even acceptance that the last several, there is no law or demand from anyone but you as to how much masculinity you will keep as you transition or how much femininity to allow yourself to show if you do not.

As far as your music, I do not think it would bother anyone if you went for total androgyny, David Bowie was successful with that a long time ago, it was exactly 40 years ago that he released the album "Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars", the tour that went with that had him on stage in very feminine outfits, obvious makeup and a shag haircut that most girls envied - it was called 'glitter rock' back then but it was obviously gender bending and the audience loved it.

The simple answer to your gender issues is just find your comfort zone and stay there, if it is fully transitioned, surgery and all - that is where you need to go, if it is no transition at all but allowing yourself to be as feminine as you feel, while keeping parts of the masculine then why change anything else - stay where you feel you belong not where someone else believes that you should.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Roux]

Welcome in Pheonix! =)

First of all, I have to say that your parents sound pretty amazing.

I started to have problems discerning what about me would change/I would want to change through transition and kinda came to the realisation that I wouldn't want to change that much. I'd just feel free to express myself. I wouldn't have that little feeling in my head that "you can't do that, that's what girls do". But I kinda feel that somehow it would be dishonest or decietful to transition while maintaining masculine charactaristics, that people would expect me to want to be 100% guy or girly-girl. It's these thoughts that make up alot of my confusion over this issue.

Fortunately for a bunch of us, androgyny isn't as widely unacceptable as it once was--even for the cisgendered. As I'm sure you've found, there are people who transition just enough to be a little more androgynous, not to present 100% as a single gender all the time. There's nothing dishonest or deceitful about identifying or presenting as androgynous. And if there are people who expect you to be 100% guy or 100% girly-girl, they haven't looked around themselves with open eyes. Androgyny is all over.

Sally mentioned David Bowie, and he's an excellent example of androgyny in the music business. So is Bill Kaulitz from Tokio Hotel. I am personally an enormouse fanboy of Brian Molko from Placebo (excuse me while I swoon), and love the style of Mana from Malice Mizer and Moi dix Mois. Elly Jackson from La Roux is androgynous from the opposite end of the spectrum (and no, I didn't know about her/La Roux before chosing my name!), as does Kwon Boa (aka BoA, whom I also adore). There are many other popular androgynous musicians out there, but you get my point. It seems like the fashion and punk/rock/metal/alternative/etc music industries are the two places where an androgynous figure is most likely to get popular and successful, actually.

Something about trying to reconcile these seemingly opposite feeling is difficult but I don't hate myself! I look in the mirror at my face and I don't really see someone who is male or female. But I know I want it to become more female. At the same time there are traditionally masculine aspects of myself and some of my behaviour that I like, nay love. Yet I feel like the expectation is that I should jettison all my masculine aspects if I transitioned. I feel that if I don't, I would in some way be being untrue to my chosen gender.

Good to hear you don't hate yourself! And I completely relate to your desires for your presentation. I'm a pretty effeminate and female-bodied, but I identify as androgynous and my ideal body is intersex. The fact that I'm effeminate doesn't make my desire for a more masculine body silly or anything. It's what I want for myself, and what I feel would work best for me. (I'm also changing my first name to a male one, because that, too, works best for me.) Thankfully, there are no rules out there to tell us exactly what we must look like, behave like, call ourselves, or be labeled as. If you want to look feminine and sound masculine, go for it! Do whatever it is that you think suits you best, without worrying too much about what other people think you should do. (Try not to worry, I mean.)

If you haven't already found your way to the Androgynous Androgyne forum, you should poke around there a bit. You don't have to identify as androgynous to participate there! Hope to see you around. =)

[Guest miss kindheart]

Hi Pheonix,

<<< hug >>>

Welcome to Laura's Playground.

Please feel free to come over and chat sometime.

The Chat room does require another registration that is separate from from your forums one.

Please read the chat room rules before coming in, and expect a short interview with one of the chat room moderators.

One of the things that they will ask you is if you read the rules.

We all look forward to seeing you.

vanna

[Guest Lucidrez]

Welcome

Your story isn't as strange as you may think, although I'm a little jealous of the dress up box...and Rice bags, I gotta try that

xoxo, Luci

[Guest chelsea gal]

welcome, I smiled when I read about the rice bags, I've done that myself