What makes a transgirl "passable"? Your opinions?

[Guest Jo-88]

Also to those saying you should aspire to "blend in" instead of "pass"... well that all depends on your point of view. I personally want to "pass" but I am not concerned with "blending in"... I mean there are genetic women that obviously "pass" as women but don't "blend in" (crazy hair-do's, sweet tattoos, interesting sense of style, etc).

I want people to look at me and see a woman, not a transexual... I don't care if I stand out for other reasons (as long as I don't stand out because I look like a guy in women's clothes).

P.S. I also think it is important to be realistic with yourself... if it turns out that no matter what you do you can't pass, then you need to be willing to accept that... but nonetheless I still think that for some people it is definitely worth the effort to at least try to pass.

[Guest BowsAndLace]

Also to those saying you should aspire to "blend in" instead of "pass"... well that all depends on your point of view. I personally want to "pass" but I am not concerned with "blending in"... I mean there are genetic women that obviously "pass" as women but don't "blend in" (crazy hair-do's, sweet tattoos, interesting sense of style, etc).

I want people to look at me and see a woman, not a transexual... I don't care if I stand out for other reasons (as long as I don't stand out because I look like a guy in women's clothes).

P.S. I also think it is important to be realistic with yourself... if it turns out that no matter what you do you can't pass, then you need to be willing to accept that... but nonetheless I still think that for some people it is definitely worth the effort to at least try to pass.

I hear you, Jodie. I agree with your statement "I don't care if I stand out for other reasons (as long as I don't stand out because I look like a guy in women's clothes)."

I don't desire to be the same as everyone else; I just want to "blend in" as far as being perceived as a genetic female. And I don't feel that I am being dishonest by passing, because I know in my heart that I am female. My body is just different from most girls. And what's in my pants is not the general public's business.

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

I look the part. I act the part. I believe in myself and therefore people just assume I'm just a very tall woman.

..even when I don't believe in myself I pretend I do and then people believe it so that just builds up confidence until I really do believe in myself and then it's back to smooth sailing once again.

Attitude is most of it but you do have to make an effort to look the part and act the part.

[Guest avamae]

What makes a trans-girl passable in y opinion, isn't features always, it is the voice, the motions, the way they speak, how they present themselves, the characteristics you would normally find in a female. Walk like a female and talk like a female and letting yourself be vulnerable, its 75% of the passing to me. The other 25% is looks, which honestly, I have met very masculine looking females but they are never mistaken for males, because of how they act, talk and walk. In my opinion I pass, because I follow the female role, and let males be dominant, allow myself to be vulnerable, worked on my voice, and have confidence. If you believe it, others will too. The more insecure you are about yourself and the more paranoid you are people will notice because they see a person who is shakky in there own skin, and they take time to exxamine rather than seeing a confident person who obviously knows who they are walking past them.

[Guest Megan_Lynn]

Yes without a dought additude is the main key to it all. With voice being a close second. While my face tends to tramtize people( jk) I was very luckly blessed with a feminine voice my entire life. If I am dressed 100 percent feminie I have had zero problems with anyone as of yet and am treat 100 like a woman. If I am dressed more tomboyish I have had only a few times were I was called sir and it was always buy a guy( when one is dressed tomboyish and go's into an autoparts store and talks car/truck repairs like a guy would .welll oops..lol) never has a woman sir'ed me since I went FT. Am not real fond of the word passing rather call it presenting.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I said I want to be seen as myself. That isn't necessarily 'blending in.' That isn't really 'passing' and it certainly isn't 'stealth'. It is me being what I am. And I happen to be a woman.

Lizzy

[Guest rita63]

Passing comes mostly from inside in your attitude and confidence. I have a face like an old shoe, well worn but familiar and cofortable and its the same face male or female. As my wise friend Rikki64 says smile its a girls best display.

hugs rita

[Guest Jo-88]

I said I want to be seen as myself. That isn't necessarily 'blending in.' That isn't really 'passing' and it certainly isn't 'stealth'. It is me being what I am. And I happen to be a woman.

Lizzy

At the end of the day all that really matters is that you are happy with yourself... of course what makes people happy is different for everyone. But you definitely seem happy where your at, so more power to you For me, nothing would make me happier than to pass so I am going to work my butt off to *try and get there... if I can't reach that goal I'm fine with that, but Im definitely still going to try as hard as I can to get there... and if I do succeed I wouldn't consider it a lie, it's living as a man that is a lie.

P.S. Liz, all I have to go by is your profile/avatar pic but going by that I would actually say you pass pretty darn well... I've seen genetic women who look less like a woman than you do... I mean just take a stroll through your local wal-mart and you will see plenty of women less feminine than you

[Guest MiraJ]

Thank you for your reply.

I get what you are saying, but the world can be so cruel. If you don't "pass", ppl can be and probably will be horrible to you.

I had a mtf friend who didn't pass, and when we'd go out shopping together, ppl would ridicule her. I couldn't stand all the staring and snickering, and it wasn't even directed at me.

People will be cruel. True fact about me: I did not go out "in public" until almost a year after I began HRT with 10 months of laser. I didn't go out until I felt that the person I saw in the mirror was the person I was. I was luck to have lunch with a very lovely moderator from this site and she made a world of difference in my confidence and from that point on, I was all but full time except for work.

Be realistic about who you see in the mirror. Don't rush out the door until you see the person you know you are. It's not about passing, but about becoming.

xoxo

Thank you Natasha. That helps me ALOT

Huggs Mira

[Guest Leah1026]

I want people to look at me and see a woman, not a transexual... I don't care if I stand out for other reasons (as long as I don't stand out because I look like a guy in women's clothes).

P.S. I also think it is important to be realistic with yourself... if it turns out that no matter what you do you can't pass, then you need to be willing to accept that... but nonetheless I still think that for some people it is definitely worth the effort to at least try to pass.

Again, you have transition tunnel vision. In a year or two or three you will understand how much folly worrying about "passing" was.

Before you blow me off again, remember I was where you are several years ago.

[Guest Janice Lynn]

I try my best to do is to plan where I go out, when I go out, and who I got out with. ...

Ugh...call the grammar police & have me arrested...that's what I get for tyring to type stuff on here while working.

Don't worry we all make typos sometimes.

ont me!

[Guest Janice Lynn]

So much of this conversation resonates with me because I

spent yesterday afternoon and early evening as Jan

traveling 90 miles each way to my GT session and needing

to walk a block and a half past several people, use the

ladies room, and using a drive thru for dinner.

It was the wonderful, liberating feeling I can recall because,

as Natasha has suggested, Jan is the real me and I simply

acted as naturally as I could without a whole lot of effort

that would actually inhibit a convincing presentation. The

male whose skin I wear during the work days is really the

imposter. He's had 60+ years to play the game and he

plays so well that few if any would ever believe what a

fantastic actress Jan really is.

[Guest otter-girl]

I know this topic is about appearance but I just realised.I pass on the inside! Is that silly?

Rachel.

[Guest composercookie]

Not sure what with the altitude post, but what i think:

Voice = 100% that u need

The altitude, umh, im pretty sure there are lots of girl who have bad altitude, trust me, i met some, there are lots of bad girl out there, so altitude isnt a thing according to what i think.

I think voice is important, because there is a different between a male and female, in their voice. It not necesary the pitch, because some female have deep voice to, but rather, in the timbre. The way you sound is what important. Deep voice girl still sound different than a male.

Other than voice, I dont care about anything other thing. As long as you have a girl voice, u pass. I have girl at school who dress like a guy, look like a guy, act like guy, do so many stuff like guy, yet is still recognized as a girl thank to her voice (yes she have GID too).

Doesnt matter about the way you dress, because, girl can dress in whatever she want and still be called cute and normal, while guy can only wear guy stuff. So if u dont have girl cloth? just practice your voice, and u will still be pass.

I will give u an example, say u dress like a guy, short hair, guy style, and u walk out there on the street. U met a completely stranger, have no idea who they are, and they started a conversation to you.

You speak in your girl voice.

The first thing they gonna do, is be surprised. They are going to ask you one of the 2 question:

"Are you a girl?"

or

"Are you a gay guy?"

If they ask you "Are you a girl", then, it up to u to say yes or no. You want to be a girl right? say yes, if not, just say no im a guy my voice just soudn weird.

If they ask you are you a gay guy, then, still up to u to say yes or no, u can say yes, which mean "Yes im gay, i have a voice issue" or "No, im actually a girl"

If u say yes on the first question and no on the second question, they are gonna recognize you as a girl. So ;P That shall end my example

Just dont let they check your pant, please, just no ;P.

Anyway, like i said, voice is the only thing that matter (for me atleast).

Good luck with your transitioning

[Guest Jo-88]

I want people to look at me and see a woman, not a transexual... I don't care if I stand out for other reasons (as long as I don't stand out because I look like a guy in women's clothes).

P.S. I also think it is important to be realistic with yourself... if it turns out that no matter what you do you can't pass, then you need to be willing to accept that... but nonetheless I still think that for some people it is definitely worth the effort to at least try to pass.

Again, you have transition tunnel vision. In a year or two or three you will understand how much folly worrying about "passing" was.

Before you blow me off again, remember I was where you are several years ago.

In the future could you please read my posts completely... you are quoting me out of context. If you would read the entirety of what I am saying you will understand me a bit better. I am not saying that passing is everything to me (or to anyone else), I am just saying that I am going to put my best effort into trying to pass. I even specifically said that if I can't pass that I am fine with that... but I am still going to try my hardest. I hope you understand where I am coming from now.

[Guest Leah1026]

I know this topic is about appearance but I just realised.I pass on the inside! Is that silly?

Not silly at all. Self-acceptance is like an onion. Just when you think you've got it all figured out, you discover and peel off another layer.

In some ways transition is a journey to the center of yourself.

Congrats on removing another layer.

[Guest Jaimie]

I don't pass. I tried to pass for years, but people didn't buy me as a man at all, so I finally stopped.

But more seriously, don't pass. Passing is a lie you are trying to tell people. Passing means that you are presenting yourself as something you are not.

Rather, be yourself. Be authentic. If you don't feel your appearance reflects who you are, work on it. Identify what kind of woman (or man) you are and work to become her as best you can. Know what kind of woman you shouldn't be. The fact is, this is how cis-women figure things out as well. They try on a lot of clothes before they find the ones that fit best.

Allow yourself to go through that awkward teenage phase (all over again for many of us) of figuring out who you are. You'll make mistakes and sometimes you'll look foolish. But it's part of the process.

But please, don't "pass". It's dishonest, mostly to yourself, because you will worry that if you don't pass, you'll be unmasked. You cannot be unmasked if you are not wearing one.

xoxo

i could'nt say it better my self

[Guest AiAmAngel]

Not a thing. No one is truly "passable" under close scrutiny. There are details that are noticeable to anyone looking for them that make it almost impossible for "no one" to know. That's where the T-Squared rule comes from; if you're near one trans woman who does not pass, it makes you less likely to pass because people will start *looking*. It's also why women, particularly deep stealth women, avoid other trans people like the plague. It's why it's very infrequent that post-transition women can't recognize other trans women. It's why a chaser hitting on you in the post-office shouldn't be a life shattering occurrence. When you're looking for something, it's easier to find it.

My general rule for passing? If no one says anything, glares at you, or moves their kids out of the way, congrats, you pass. Worry about world hunger or something.

[Guest BowsAndLace]

Yes without a dought additude is the main key to it all. With voice being a close second. While my face tends to tramtize people( jk) I was very luckly blessed with a feminine voice my entire life. If I am dressed 100 percent feminie I have had zero problems with anyone as of yet and am treat 100 like a woman. If I am dressed more tomboyish I have had only a few times were I was called sir and it was always buy a guy( when one is dressed tomboyish and go's into an autoparts store and talks car/truck repairs like a guy would .welll oops..lol) never has a woman sir'ed me since I went FT. Am not real fond of the word passing rather call it presenting.

I was very blessed in the voice department as well; my voice never changed when I went thru puberty.

[Guest (Lightsider)]

I generally avoid threads like this. For one they tend to cause anxiety, not for me, but for other readers. I am content where I am post transition and go about my business in public with out fear of others "Reading" me.

I had one incident early on in my transition. A young woman came up to me and said something to me...and I turned to her and said "Excuse me?" and she immediately said "it's a girl!" and pointed to a friend of hers in the crowd who surmised I was a guy "She thinks you are a guy!". I kept my cool and for what ever reason it just did not bother me. In fact, instead of the crowd of people staring at me they looked at the girls and mumbled among themselves how big of idiots they were.

I have never had a situation even come close to that again. Now imagine if I broke down crying and let it affect me some other way? The out come could have been entirely different. It is really is about attitude. I personally hate the word "PASSING" because it does say others are failing to do what you are doing.

I am me. It is none of my business what others are thinking unless they wish to volunteer it. They could be looking and me and thinking a myriad of things from "wow she's fat" to "What a lovely blouse she is wearing" to "That's a dude!" Does it really matter what they are thinking as long as you are treated with respect and you do the same in return?

Become comfortable with you and others will be comfortable with you. This is a lesson I continue to learn. I recently lost over 140 lbs and as I change physically I am constantly re-adjusting my self image and my comfort level because I still see a fat person looking back in the mirror.

I hope what I wrote here is of help some one. Have confidence in yourself but be wise not to put yourself in positions of danger.

[Guest LottieZero]

I'd say voice is the most important key to passing - particularly where the pitch and resonance are right. Obviously you need to present yourself as female (and not ridiculously; ill-fitting wigs, lipstick that's way too bright and visible beard shadow don't do any favours). Confidence helps, too. Even if it's not real confidence, it seems to make a difference.

Note that my post applies to MtFs; I'm not really so sure about how it works for FtMs, sorry. :\

[Guest jody h]

hiya

do you think sometimes girls try too hard to "pass" and less would be more.also maybe a different style for want of a better phrase.

[Guest Leah1026]

do you think sometimes girls try too hard to "pass" and less would be more.also maybe a different style for want of a better phrase.

Hence why I saw "passing" is a flawed concept because you're are still trying to live for other people.

Don't live for other people, live for YOU.

[Guest jennahtx]

I think attitude is very important. All things, appearance, how you dress, your hair, and your voice are obviously important, but even if you "fail" on one or two of those items, as long as you act "normally" and don't exhibit uncertainty, you will most likely pass. By "normally" I mean (for example) when you walk up to the check-out counter at Target, act like you belong there. Be self-assured--you're a woman and expect to be treated like one! "Ma'am" would be nice, but as long as it's not "sir" be happy, right? During my first year of presenting as female, I certainly got my share of being read as male, and it sucked. But I kept on trying and that is what you must do as well.

Also, as others have already said, don't over-do the makeup (I wear close to none as a rule), and don't over-do the clothes or shoes. Even after I became full-time, for several years I rarely appeared in a dress because I thought I looked better in jeans and a top so that's what I wore. Use common sense and choose clothing that doesn't draw undue attention, at least until you're comfortable with it.

Good luck & hugs,

Jenna

[Guest composercookie]

Well, many ppl have a point when they say altitude is a key, but then idk, for me, altitude had never been a problem.

Several words that describe me would be: a troll (Internet troll), anime girl/weeabo, and a tomboy

And since I'm a troll, my altitude is the teenager/rebellious altitude, I can make ppl laugh by adding trolling comment like "u don't say?" after someone said "open the pizza box if u want to eat pizza" . And ppl still think of me as a girl, in fact, they think of me as a "cool" girl. And it not just me, there are lots of other girl out there, real girl, generic girl out there who is a troll as well.

I'm an anime girl, I don't know if I do what a normal girl would do or not. If I see a cute guy that is okay with me hugging him, I would glomp (which mean jump tackle hug) him. I have a friend who is a sophomore that is taller and bigger than me, he is very nice and treat me like his younger sister (we treat each other the anime way) I don't know how to describe it, but like Im allow to sit on his lap, I'm allow to hug him, etc and it is not a serious relationship, it just an anime thing, u know?

Last I'm a tomboy, yeah, deal with it, I'm a MtF tomboy ;P. I don't try to alternative my feeling, if I want to curse, I simply do it, because I know girls curse too ;P, I'm very competitive, and I have no problem to be manly if i want to. I guess I don't really want to be a girly girly girl, I just want to be see as a girl. It is like, I just want to be a female, but I don't want to act like one, or, I just act the way I want to act. And in fact, I think that is why I "pass" . I just be myself all the time, and ppl won't really care.

So yeah, that conclude my point, altitude to me is not that much of a problem. I think all u need to do to pass is to be yourself.

I have proof. I had video chatted on tinychat with random stranger lots of time (with my microphone muted because I sound like a dude), several time some guy think I'm a Transgender, I actually talk to them, and I actually make them change their mind, and make the, believe that I was a generic girl. Find something that u feel is the most cutest part of u and show it to the world. Like when I was video chatting, when ppl (that think I'm a trans girl) say a joke, I smile and giggle, and eventually, they said I'm so cute when I smile, and eventually, I just change their mind through talking. But one thing tho, u have to have self esteem. Don't make the same mistake I made, when I started dressing as a girl on the Internet, several time ppl call me a Transgender, and I took it serious and offensively, which lead toppl think that I'm actually one. Now, if ppl say I look like a Transgender, I just smile and say "I do?" and then fix my hair a little and ask if I look better, then just smile. Don't take the Transgender thing serious, and since u don't take it serious, ppl won't think u r a trans, and simply believe that u r a girl.

I also had video chatted with lots of ppl who actually think I'm a girl when I first see them, some even think I'm "hot" or"cute". That is when I turn my swagger on ;P. I act like a guy, sometime I even act like a jerk, and they just think that I'm a tomboy.

Have self esteem, be confidence, there is no such thing such as pass. Just be yourself, if u know u r a girl, u r one. U can look like a man all u want, u can be as manly as u can, doesn't matter, the only thing that matter is do u know u r a girl or not. If u know u r a girl, and u know for sure, u know with all your mind, u know for sure, u have confidence that u know u r a girl, u r a girl. As simply as that. It's all in your mind.

Note: I'm so tomboy-ish that the only time that I ever wear make up are big events. I might look like a dude, but I'm happy with myself, I don't want to fake my look. I know I'm a girl, and that is what give me power to go through things